Latest SwiftBoats Vets commercial...

[Mermaid02]

...I just heard it- it has John Kerry's own voice talking about the atrocities he committed (or claimed he did so) in Vietnam while showing still pictures of him while he testified. VERY powerful commercial...the Kerry camp must be seething.
Have you seen it?

 

[fanofmickey]

The television is on in our house a lot and I have never seen any of these swiftboat commercials. Yesterday on GMA they said that they had done a poll and that 77% of Americans have seen these commercials, but neither me or DH have.

Please tell me, what network and what time of day were you watching? I would like to see the commercial for myself.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by fanofmickey
The television is on in our house a lot and I have never seen any of these swiftboat commercials. Yesterday on GMA they said that they had done a poll and that 77% of Americans have seen these commercials, but neither me or DH have.

Please tell me, what network and what time of day were you watching? I would like to see the commercial for myself.

If you aren't in a state where they are targeted, you won't see them, unless you watch the news where they often air them as part of the news story. That accounts for most Americans having seen them.

 

[Pop Daddy]

more devastating of a comercial then Dukakis in the tank

 

[Dan Murphy]

Originally posted by fanofmickey
The television is on in our house a lot and I have never seen any of these swiftboat commercials. Yesterday on GMA they said that they had done a poll and that 77% of Americans have seen these commercials, but neither me or DH have.

Please tell me, what network and what time of day were you watching? I would like to see the commercial for myself.

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video_wmv.html

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video2.html

 

[Bobbles]

Excellent non-biased link there Dan! Thanks

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by Dan Murphy
http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video_wmv.html

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video2.html

Thanks for the links. I never see them on TV (although I saw the first one on the news) and I've never seen the second one at all...very powerful.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by Bobbles
Excellent non-biased link there Dan! Thanks

That's a silly comment. A link was provided to the ad so it could be viewed. What difference does it make where it came from?

 

[wvrevy]

See...this is the problem with those ads...They show only PART of what Kerry actually said. It's creative editing, and it's nauseating that these guys are allowed to get away with these outright lies. It'd be like my saying, "I was just talking to a friend of mine, and he told me he had robbed a bank" and the only part you here is the "I" and the "robbed a bank" part.

Do Republicans think people are stupid ? Is that the reason they won't give people the whole story about anything ? Are they afraid, given the chance, people might actually come to their own conclusions if they actually had all the information ?

 

[Pop Daddy]

the left could throw a punch but they cant take one

 

[luvmk]

I had originally heard that these commercials were only released in three "battleground" states. Does anyone know if this is true? I can't remember which news station was talking about it. Their point was that it was surprising how these commercial struck such a chord with the public when it had been released so sparingly. I haven't seen any of the commercials. Indiana has always been republican, so I don't think anyone bothers campaigning here.


Rachel

 

[peachgirl]

I hate to break up the bash fest, but a dose of truth wouldn't hurt now and then.....

John Kerry's own voice talking about the atrocities he committed (or claimed he did so)

No, it doesn't. This is one of their ridiculous lies that is easily disproved, unless of course this is what you want to believe.

Had they bothered to include the first few words of the sentence they quote in their propaganda film, it would have changed the entire meaning of what he said.

Of course, that's why they didn't.

They told the stories at times they had.............

Put that in front of the words you hear from John Kerry on that tape and tell me again how he's either saying things he did, or is accusing others of it. He's not. He was telling what he had been told by the soldiers who claimed to have done these things.

the left could throw a punch but they cant take one

Well, at least you're admitting it's a lie. Your complaint seems to be that we don't accept the lies as easily as the right does.

 

[inaminute]

I'm far from a Kerry fan, but he was actually stating what others had told him--not what he had done. The commercial starts with John Kerry in mid-sentence with the word "they..."

Why is everything that goes against Kerry considered a "lie?" I'm honestly curious. Do you really believe that EVERYONE who supports the President is a liar?

 

[Elwood Blues]

Actually, the words you hear are from his Senate testimony (under oath) and he wasn't saying he did those things, he was only telling what others had told other soldiers were doing.

It wasn't until his TV interview (I think the Cavett show) that he admitted to committing some atrocities but not any of the more gruesome deeds he testified to earlier. Still bad things though.

But people will complain (wvrevy) that the voice clip in that ad is incomplete and out of context. It's true that it's incomplete but not out of context. The opening words of this ad are "They had personally...." which should be obvious that he's talking about someone else and not himself. There will be those that say he was only the messenger and not the accuser. If he didn't personally witness this stuff (which he also claims he's never seen) then he had no business testifying IMO. Very slick move on his part by NOT admitting (under oath) that he did commit actions that were considered war crimes nor did he claim that he saw it actually happen (other than what he personally admitted to later on). So just how much credibility does he get for doing this? None IMO. The only thing he did was give the enemy more tools to mistreat POWs because that's what they were trying to get some of the POWs to admit to.


But the problem is that from what I've read that the actions he testified to were not wide spread nor systematic as he claims.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by inaminute
Why is everything that goes against Kerry considered a "lie?" I'm honestly curious. Do you really believe that EVERYONE who supports the President is a liar?

No, I don't. However, when you are telling people "Kerry said this:" and then giving an inaccurate representation of what he said, then yes, you are lying about it. It'd be like my saying "Bush said he is thinking up new ways of harming this country. He actually said EXACTLY that !" Yes, he DID say that, but he said it as PART of a sentence, and what he intended to say was that they (his administration) were always trying to out-think the terrorists...think of what they will try to do before they do it.

But if I were a Repugnican (not a Republican...but one of the repugnant people pushing these ads and those like them), then I'd be using that quote CONTINUOUSLY to show Bush's "freudian slip" of what they are ACTUALLY trying to do to our country It's disingenuous, to borrow a phrase from John McCain.

 

[inaminute]

No, I don't. However, when you are telling people "Kerry said this:" and then giving an inaccurate representation of what he said, then yes, you are lying about it. It'd be like my saying "Bush said he is thinking up new ways of harming this country. He actually said EXACTLY that !" Yes, he DID say that, but he said it as PART of a sentence, and what he intended to say was that they (his administration) were always trying to out-think the terrorists...think of what they will try to do before they do it.

But if I were a Repugnican (not a Republican...but one of the repugnant people pushing these ads and those like them), then I'd be using that quote CONTINUOUSLY to show Bush's "freudian slip" of what they are ACTUALLY trying to do to our country It's disingenuous, to borrow a phrase from John McCain.

OH NO! The world must be coming to an end--I actually agree with you!!! Except for two points.

The first is that--at least in the case of the OP--I believe they were simply misinformed about what Kerry actually said. I can't blame them, there has been a lot of talk about it and it all gets confusing. Until you actually hear what Kerry said. They may not have heard it. So, they weren't actually lying.

The other point is the use of your word "Repugnican." You have a lot of good things to say and some valid points to make. I don't always agree, but I respect your right to expess your views.

Except for the name calling. That's beneath you. Personally, I'd take your posts much more seriously without it. Name calling does nothing for your credibility. Your opinions deserve better than that.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by inaminute


The other point is the use of your word "Repugnican." You have a lot of good things to say and some valid points to make. I don't always agree, but I respect your right to expess your views.

Except for the name calling. That's beneath you. Personally, I'd take your posts much more seriously without it. Name calling does nothing for your credibility. Your opinions deserve better than that.

Might I add that all the rolleyes and other sarcastic remarks don't help either.

 

[Saffron]

It's ust like any other commercial on TV. You can buy into the commercial if you want, but the commerical is slanted to get you to buy the product.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by inaminute
OH NO! The world must be coming to an end--I actually agree with you!!! Except for two points.

The first is that--at least in the case of the OP--I believe they were simply misinformed about what Kerry actually said. I can't blame them, there has been a lot of talk about it and it all gets confusing. Until you actually hear what Kerry said. They may not have heard it. So, they weren't actually lying.

The other point is the use of your word "Repugnican." You have a lot of good things to say and some valid points to make. I don't always agree, but I respect your right to expess your views.

Except for the name calling. That's beneath you. Personally, I'd take your posts much more seriously without it. Name calling does nothing for your credibility. Your opinions deserve better than that.

Thanks....I, uh, think

Seriously, though...I didn't mean to imply that the OP was lying...just that the commercial was. To quote Bill Maher, why is it that a toothpaste commercial, by law, is required to be truthful, while a slimy attack like that doesn't have to prove a thing ?

As for the smart aleck comments and the sarcasm....I live in an area where EVERY radio talk show leans heavily to the right, and I can easily pick up Limbaugh, Hannity, and O'Reilly. In addition, those same people are on cable news all the time, and are CONSTANT in their attacks against thing that I believe in very strongly. So yes, I've started to take the same tack that they have in making my points.

I realize that I (quite often) come off as condescending to some people on this board, but you have to realize that I am ALWAYS being treated that way by those in the media (well, not me personally, but anyone with my beliefs). Again, I would certainly argue that it is those on the right that have set the tone of the debate, and I am merely following their example. I don't think you have to look any further than the current "debate" to see that invective, sarcasm, and flat out attack work much better than reasoned argument...just look at Kerry's numbers since these Swift liars hit the scene. Even McCain and Guiliani - two men I once respected - have gotten into the sliming business.

 

[inaminute]

Might I add that all the rolleyes and other sarcastic remarks don't help either.

Isn't it strange--those don't bother me.

Rolleyes and other icons help to express the "tone" of a message so they serve a purpose. Sarcasm can do the same thing under the right circumstances and used correctly.

I just don't like name calling. Especially when someone has valid points. I actually enjoy learning how other people see the world. I like getting both sides of an issue. That's why I liked the debate board so much.

However, it's difficult for me to get through a message when it starts with name calling. I consider it an expression of hatred, which immediately tells me the post is biased and I need read no further. This applies to both sides of any issue--it has nothing to do with politics, or party affiliation, or anything else. It's just my thought process.