Las Vegas Shooting

[msjprincess]

I have not seen any thing to say why 2 windows were shot out. They seemed too far apart to be from the same room. Unless it was a big suite, I guess. Just hadn't seen anything about the 2nd window.

It was a large suite. The 2 windows were broken out because it gave him two different vantage points and he was able to go back and forth between the two.

 

[Albort]

I guess that’s what’s bothering me about this claim. The only mention of fire alarms is coming from this guy. It’s been many years since I’ve worked on the floors but if they were going off I can’t see it being just that room.

would the whole building go off if one alarm goes off? i would think they could isolate it pretty well.

 

[sam_gordon]

would the whole building go off if one alarm goes off? i would think they could isolate it pretty well.

I assume (yea, I know), they could isolate it by floor or wing (especially a building that large), but I doubt it would isolated to a single room.

 

[HarperLeigh]

I have not seen any thing to say why 2 windows were shot out. They seemed too far apart to be from the same room. Unless it was a big suite, I guess. Just hadn't seen anything about the 2nd window.

He broke the windows out with a hammer and had a large suite with many windows.

 

[Magpie]

Might I just add my subjective opinion...

I hate guns. I loathe them. I'm military trained in a variety of firearms, including the British Army L85A2, the P90 and the Aug. And I despised them. They were vicious. They were destructive. They were built to kill. These days, short of an air rifle, I won't handle a firearm at all. I mean, the only legitimate role for a firearm that I will consider is target shooting and even then, air rifles are all you need (in fact, they're better suited to the task - less recoil, more even trajectories).

I feel very similarly. I hate the smell of firearms. I hate the sound of them. I didn't enjoy learning to shoot. Though I did rather enjoy taking them apart, cleaning and putting them together again, but I like puzzles and there's something very satisfying about having all the pieces spread out in front of you.

I learned on the FNC1, the C7 (basically an M16), Beretta, and I've forgotten what else.

And while I understand there are people who are passionate about them, the way other people are passionate about cars and stamps and comic books... I never personally understood the attraction. I agree with you that the only real use for a gun is target shooting, and maybe hunting (if you must). And if it's relevant to your job (military or police).

But, there were men I knew who I liked and respected, who passionately loved shooting. One young man confided to me that he'd get physically excited whenever he got the chance to fire the big guns, and a number of his friends who were there nodded and said, "Yeah, me too!" And my reaction was pretty much, "You're all insane."

These guys also blew apart a groundhog who ventured onto the range, without a second thought. The range master was screaming at everyone to cease fire, but I think me and maybe a couple others, were the only ones who did. Another thing I don't understand.

I feel very strongly that if you must have a gun (or guns), you need to keep it responsibly, in a safe and with a trigger lock, ammo separate. If you feel a need to defend your home, buy a big dog. It'll serve you better.

 

[wonder whisper]

The story will be the bump stock, the sad truth is a lot of those deaths could have been avoided with sensible laws. How did we get to the point of selling machine gun conversions legally on the interenet

And how did we get to the point where someone can develop a massive assault weapon arsenal without any family, friends or acquaintances having a clue?

This guy lived in a closely-packed retirement community filled with inherently nosy senior citizens.

And as my wife put it this morning, we can’t even take a walk in our relatively spread out suburban neighborhood without 15 people immediately knowing about it.

But we are supposed to believe this psychopath was able to build a stockpile of firearms and explosives that would fill your local National Guard Armory while nobody in that retirement development had any idea?

 

[Magpie]

And how did we get to the point where someone can develop a massive assault weapon arsenal without any family, friends or acquaintances having a clue?

This guy lived in a closely-packed retirement community filled with inherently nosy senior citizens.

And as my wife put it this morning, we can’t even take a walk in our relatively spread out suburban neighborhood without 15 people immediately knowing about it.

But we are supposed to believe this psychopath was able to build a stockpile of firearms and explosives that would fill your local National Guard Armory while nobody in that retirement development had any idea?

Yes.

He had his own home. He didn't have his neighbours going through his underwear drawer.

He wasn't taking walks. He wasn't schtumping his neighbour's wife. He wasn't torturing people's pets. All anyone would have seen was the man leaving in his car, for an hour or two, coming home and parking in his own garage. Hardly "suspicious behaviour".

I don't know how many guns my neighbours may or may not have. Do you?

 

[erin1715]

And how did we get to the point where someone can develop a massive assault weapon arsenal without any family, friends or acquaintances having a clue?

This guy lived in a closely-packed retirement community filled with inherently nosy senior citizens.

And as my wife put it this morning, we can’t even take a walk in our relatively spread out suburban neighborhood without 15 people immediately knowing about it.

But we are supposed to believe this psychopath was able to build a stockpile of firearms and explosives that would fill your local National Guard Armory while nobody in that retirement development had any idea?

I think it's possible that he could have stockpiled these weapons without neighbors, relatives, and acquaintances knowing about it. But, I think the person living with him would MAYBE know more than the others. I say maybe in this case because I don't think they were married and he probably kept his finances separate so she would never know what he was buying, and he also could have kept this arsenal stored elsewhere so it's not like he was bringing it into the home. If my husband were doing this, I would know but I think a lot of it depends on how long these two were together and what type of relationship they had. I feel like either his girlfriend knows everything, or she knows nothing and this guy was like a sugar daddy to her.

 

[Hikergirl]

And how did we get to the point where someone can develop a massive assault weapon arsenal without any family, friends or acquaintances having a clue?

This guy lived in a closely-packed retirement community filled with inherently nosy senior citizens.

And as my wife put it this morning, we can’t even take a walk in our relatively spread out suburban neighborhood without 15 people immediately knowing about it.

But we are supposed to believe this psychopath was able to build a stockpile of firearms and explosives that would fill your local National Guard Armory while nobody in that retirement development had any idea?

I can assure you that my neighbors have no idea how many firearms are in my home. We do not "advertise" to anyone that we have them, we don't talk about them and we don't shoot them in our yard.
Now some may have seen us bringing the cases out to our car, but they would still not know how many we actually own.
And we purchase our ammo at local shops and have it delivered, sometimes in very large quantities. None of our neighbor would notice that, it is delivered by Fed Ex just like any other package.

The only reason I know what is in our gun safe is because I participate in the shooting with him. If I didn't I would have no idea what dh had in there.
I could see his girlfriend not knowing anything if she wasn't interested in shooting.

ETA, I don't know how many we actually own. I have my own rifle, and my ds has his own. Dh has pistols and rifles and I "think" I know how many but the truth is I don't.

 

[BLAZEY]

I've always wondered about the "safety and security" argument in favour of firearms ownership. If a nutter knocks at your door and blasts your brains out with a gun he bought legally, you won't have time to make him wait whilst you fetch your own weapon or even pick up one placed with paranoia by your front door.

If you remove the personal safety, which having as gun in your possession INCREASES the chances of you or someone in your home being killed by you own weapon. What need a or use is having a gun? I understand hunting, and am not against those who go hunting for food. But those are not the same weapons. What HUMAN being wants or needs these weapons in their possession? It's the mind set It can't understand.

This happened the day before and had a very different out come, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/jasper-downtown-edmonton-pedestrians-struck-1.4315545.
The Police officer didn't even finer his weapon, and kept the attacker from taking it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

See, the amount of guns, the fertilizer, the firearms and ammo in a city where they were legal would not raise any flags for me.
I mean look at a gun safe, they are designed to hold many guns, and people have multiple safes in their homes sometimes. Also, who would know he had those guns? Do you know what your neighbors have in their home? How much of something they have?
Despite what conclusion people jump to about people owning many firearms, that alone isn't a sign of someone being a psychopath. It isn't a sign that someone is planning mass murder, or murder at all.
Fertilizer? If I saw a neighbor with a bunch of fertilizer I wouldn't think he was a psychopath either. I'd think he was doing a bunch of yard work.

I'm more baffled that people who knew him, like the woman living with him had no idea he was a psychopath based on some personality traits.
He must have kept that well hidden because if he didn't then yes all those things you mentioned would have sent up flags to many. But the fact that he was "a regular guy" to many means that none of those things would have been seen as crazy.

I watch these crazy animal obsession shows, and it's amazing how many of these nutters have dozens of deadly snakes in their apartment without a single neighbor being even remotely aware.

 

[LYSE]

If you remove the personal safety, which having as gun in your possession INCREASES the chances of you or someone in your home being killed by you own weapon. What need a or use is having a gun? I understand hunting, and am not against those who go hunting for food. But those are not the same weapons. What HUMAN being wants or needs these weapons in their possession? It's the mind set It can't understand.

This happened the day before and had a very different out come, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/jasper-downtown-edmonton-pedestrians-struck-1.4315545.
The Police officer didn't even finer his weapon, and kept the attacker from taking it.

Actually defensive use of firearms decreases your chances of being harmed: https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1#R1

Take your time and read it, both sides can cite the study but at least we wouldn't be completely talking out of our back sides..

There are plenty of other studies to cite, however I find that even raging anti gun people tend to find that one to be "more balanced" so we'll start there.

I'm assuming those on here that still believe a gun in the home puts you at risk are thinking of this old myth:

Myth #1: A Gun In The Home Means You Are Three Times More Likely To Be Killed
1. Fact: Guns are used more often to save life. Dr. Edgar Suter has pointed out that studies which make the claim that guns are more likely to kill the owner are flawed because they fail to consider the number of lives saved by guns. (1) That is, such claims ignore the vast number of non-lethal defensive uses with firearms. Criminologists have found that citizens use firearms as often as 2.5 million times every year in self-defense. In over 90% of these defensive uses, citizens merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off the attacker. (2)

2. Fact: A study claiming "guns more likely to kill you than help you" is a total fraud. Not surprisingly, the figure claiming one is three times more likely to be killed by one's own gun is a total lie. The author of this study, Dr. Arthur Kellerman, refused to release the data behind his conclusions for years. (3) Subsequently available evidence shows why Kellerman stonewalled for so long:

* Researcher Don Kates reveals that all available data now indicates that the "home gun homicide victims [in Kellerman's study] were killed using guns not kept in the victim's home." (4) In other words, the victims were NOT murdered with their own guns! They were killed "by intruders who brought their own guns to the victim's household."

* In retrospect, Kates found, it was not the ownership of firearms that put these victims at high risk. Rather, it was the victim's "high-risk life-styles [such as criminal associations] that caused them to own guns at higher rates than the members of the supposedly comparable control group."(5)





1. Dr. Edgar A. Suter, "Guns in the Medical Literature -- A Failure of Peer Review," The Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia, vol. 83 (March 1994):136.

2. Kleck and Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime," at 173, 185.

3. Don B. Kates, "Guns and Public Health: Epidemic of Violence, or Pandemic of Propaganda?" in Gary Kleck & Kates, Armed: New Perspectives on Gun Control (2001), p. 79.

4. Ibid., p. 75.

5. Ibid., p. 76.

 

[luvsJack]

And how did we get to the point where someone can develop a massive assault weapon arsenal without any family, friends or acquaintances having a clue?

This guy lived in a closely-packed retirement community filled with inherently nosy senior citizens.

And as my wife put it this morning, we can’t even take a walk in our relatively spread out suburban neighborhood without 15 people immediately knowing about it.

But we are supposed to believe this psychopath was able to build a stockpile of firearms and explosives that would fill your local National Guard Armory while nobody in that retirement development had any idea?

Easy. My brother lives at the end of my driveway in the house that was my mom's. I pass it every day at least once but usually several times a day. I see him outside, I honk and wave or stop to say hello. I sit on the porch and visit with him once a week or so. He could be building an arsenal as we speak and I wouldn't have a clue. I don't go looking in closets or peeking behind closed doors. I don't see every time he pulls up at home to know what he has or hasn't bought. NOr would I be nosy enough to look to see what he was carrying in the house.

When you are out taking a walk, of course they all know, they SEE you.

 

[cabanafrau]

I have not seen any thing to say why 2 windows were shot out. They seemed too far apart to be from the same room. Unless it was a big suite, I guess. Just hadn't seen anything about the 2nd window.

From what I've heard it's classified as a panoramic suite by Mandalay Bay. There are youtube videos with tours of this type of room.

 

[msjprincess]

I know when my neighbor goes on a walk because he passes by my house. He goes on 3 or 4 walks a day. But I have no idea if he owns a gun. He could have bodies in his basement for all I know.

 

[Hikergirl]

If you remove the personal safety, which having as gun in your possession INCREASES the chances of you or someone in your home being killed by you own weapon. What need a or use is having a gun? I understand hunting, and am not against those who go hunting for food. But those are not the same weapons. What HUMAN being wants or needs these weapons in their possession? It's the mind set It can't understand.

This happened the day before and had a very different out come, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/jasper-downtown-edmonton-pedestrians-struck-1.4315545.
The Police officer didn't even finer his weapon, and kept the attacker from taking it.

We don't hunt and we don't have ours for safety reasons. Dh has a full carry permit but does not feel he needs to carry a pistol when out and about on the streets. The only place he carries is on our remote land and that is for "protection" from animals but not to shoot them, just to shoot to make a loud noise if they approach in a threatening manner. I'm sure he would shoot them if he felt he needed, but that is not why he carries out in those woods.
We have guns because we enjoy target shooting. Dh shoots competitively and he, like the pp enjoys the taking apart and putting back together, and even modding them. (Not to make them full auto or anything like that). He also enjoys the science behind shooting, he measures all kinds of things which I don't pay any attention too LOL, but he keeps notebooks full of the data he collects and plots it.
Me, I just like hitting the targets and trying to do better than my ds, which I never do.

 

[maxiesmom]

I know when my neighbor goes on a walk because he passes by my house. He goes on 3 or 4 walks a day. But I have no idea if he owns a gun. He could have bodies in his basement for all I know.

One of my neighbors wears his gun when he goes for a walk. And applied (and was denied) a permit to sell guns out of his house. So yeah, I assume he has a bunch.

I have a neighbor a bit further up the road who belongs to a local militia. I would hazard a guess he has a few guns too.

 

[wenrob]

would the whole building go off if one alarm goes off? i would think they could isolate it pretty well.

Most likely not but if I had to guess from working in a hotel, specifically in the rooms/on the floors, it would set off the entire floor. Vegas has a very bad history with fire, the hotels don’t play there. I’ve never been in the Mandalay Suites so I can’t know for sure. And speaking of Suites, I think people are imagining this as just a regular room. Some I have cleaned are massive and this was in a relatively minor hotel compared to the Mandalay Bay. I have no idea what kind of smoke would come from a weapon but it seems it would have to be a massive amount considering the size of the room and that he was at open windows when firing.

And how did we get to the point where someone can develop a massive assault weapon arsenal without any family, friends or acquaintances having a clue?

This guy lived in a closely-packed retirement community filled with inherently nosy senior citizens.

And as my wife put it this morning, we can’t even take a walk in our relatively spread out suburban neighborhood without 15 people immediately knowing about it.

But we are supposed to believe this psychopath was able to build a stockpile of firearms and explosives that would fill your local National Guard Armory while nobody in that retirement development had any idea?

I’d bet my neighbors would call me reclusive. They *might* be able to figure out that I have an Amazon habit and hit up Target on Sundays but other than that? They really have no idea what’s going on in my home nor I theirs.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

If you remove the personal safety, which having as gun in your possession INCREASES the chances of you or someone in your home being killed by you own weapon. What need a or use is having a gun? I understand hunting, and am not against those who go hunting for food. But those are not the same weapons. What HUMAN being wants or needs these weapons in their possession? It's the mind set It can't understand.

This happened the day before and had a very different out come, http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/jasper-downtown-edmonton-pedestrians-struck-1.4315545.
The Police officer didn't even finer his weapon, and kept the attacker from taking it.

One thing to keep in mind is the stat showing you're more likely to die from a firearm if you have one "in possession" is that includes those kept illegally in possession which skews the number significantly - how much, nobody really knows.

 

[nd5056]

I have not seen any thing to say why 2 windows were shot out. They seemed too far apart to be from the same room. Unless it was a big suite, I guess. Just hadn't seen anything about the 2nd window.

As titled: "
Diagram based on typical suite. Exact layout can vary."