Las Vegas Shooting

[Domo]

Whilst it is true that there are other ways to easily kill people - pipe bombs, nail bombs and the such - nothing is quite as simply eloquent and easy to perpetrate mass mayhem with as a rifle of some description. This guy holed himself up in a hotel room, injured hundreds in a very short space of time and killed tonnes. And even if a member of the crown had been carrying a pistol for self defence, they would never have been able to hit him, bar for some immense stroke of luck. And even then, that would assume that the bearer of a defensive pistol was professionally tutored in operations which many people are not.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

‘I cannot express how wrong I was’: Country guitarist changes mind on gun control after Vegas

n the wake of the deadly mass shooting in Las Vegas on Sunday night that left at least 58 people dead and more than 500 injured, the Josh Abbott Band — like many country acts — posted a message that sent thoughts and prayers to the victims. The Texas-based group performed at the Route 91 Harvest festival Sunday afternoon, several hours before a gunman fired into the crowd during Jason Aldean’s set.

“I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life. Until the events of last night. I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with [Concealed Handgun Licenses], and legal firearms on the bus,” Keeter wrote. “They were useless.” He continued:

We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think we were part of the massacre and shoot us. A small group (or one man) laid waste to a city with dedicated, fearless police officers desperately trying to help, because of access to an insane amount of fire power.

Enough is enough.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ind-on-gun-control-after-vegas/?utm_term=.687

==============================

He makes a freat point whern he says "We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think we were part of the massacre and shoot us."

So much for the argument that if more people carry guns they could stop these mass murderers

There are no absolutes. An armed civilian DID in fact halt the most recent church shooting. The results of a specific incident don't apply to every incident. People die in car crashes every single day while wearing seatbelts. That in & of itself doesn't "prove"
Seatbelts are useless.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Is it illegal to bring a legally purchased firearm into hotels in Las Vegas?

I can't imagine that it is. It may or may not violate hotel policy.

 

[LYSE]

I can't imagine that it is. It may or may not violate hotel policy.

It is not, NV no guns signs and policy do not hold any legal weight if discovered they can ask you to leave and trespass you however being that it's your temporary residence that can make things more complicated since eviction from a hotel room has it's own legal hurdles.

4th amendment protects your room from warrantless searches as well, to include hotel staff going beyond normal housekeeping and maintenance

 

[Gumbo4x4]

If we are stuck with lethal weapons in our midst, I'd prefer restrictions on the nature of the firearm. Handguns are too easy to secrete - I could sneak one into Disney World and go on a spree. I believe fully automatic firearms are banned in the US already?

Not 100% banned. No new ones have been legal to manufacture since 1986. Existing ones are grandfathered & require special licensing.

 

[robinb]

I can't imagine that it is. It may or may not violate hotel policy.

So all this talk about hotel security seems pointless. They'd look in his bag and say "thank you" and he's be on his way.

 

[Domo]

There are no absolutes. An armed civilian DID in fact halt the most recent church shooting. The results of a specific incident don't apply to every incident. People die in car crashes every single day while wearing seatbelts. That in & of itself doesn't "prove"
Seatbelts are useless.

Thing is, seatbelts and the overall design of cars are designed to preserve life not to snuff life. Many firearms are designed from the ground up to kill. Some, agreeably, aren't - high end Anschütz rim fire .22 rifles such as the ones I was taught on for example.

 

[Magpie]

Probably, but what I'm saying is he had a permit to carry and his gun could have been useful if someone came into that restaurant.

Sure, a gun's a tool. It can be used for good or ill, like any other tool.

In the event of a coordinated assault by a gang of attackers, someone with training might be able to dissuade them from attacking that restaurant. Alternatively, in the event of a lone gunman firing from a hotel window, someone with no training and a whole lot of fear and adrenaline could also use it to accidentally shoot an innocent person seeking shelter in the restaurant.

It all comes down to who's got the gun.

I just wish we wouldn't fetishize guns so very much. Backhoes are also incredibly useful, in many circumstances. They can also be dangerous and I don't have the training to handle one, so I don't own a backhoe. No one holds backhoe shows. No one collects backhoes (well, maybe one guy). No one would own one, unless they had a use for it.

That's how I feel we ought to be about our guns.

 

[BLAZEY]

Actually defensive use of firearms decreases your chances of being harmed: https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1#R1

Take your time and read it, both sides can cite the study but at least we wouldn't be completely talking out of our back sides..

There are plenty of other studies to cite, however I find that even raging anti gun people tend to find that one to be "more balanced" so we'll start there.

I'm assuming those on here that still believe a gun in the home puts you at risk are thinking of this old myth:

I live in Canada, we aren't allowed the many types of guns Americans have, and our ideology around them is very different. The idea of having a gun in the house for "protection" is crazy. Protection from what? Some people may have a hunting rifle for their annual hunting trip or in rural areas to scare off predatory animals. If the general population didn't have guns in their homes children, suicidal people wouldn't have access to them. As to the claim that having a gun increases your safety, I disagree.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24054955
http://annals.org/aim/article/18144...timization-among-household-members-systematic
https://www.bradycampaign.org/risks-of-having-a-gun-in-the-home

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Thing is, seatbelts and the overall design of cars are designed to preserve life not to snuff life. Many firearms are designed from the ground up to kill. Some, agreeably, aren't - high end Anschütz rim fire .22 rifles such as the ones I was taught on for example.

True, but that's not really the point.

The fact that a concealed weapon at ground level was useless in this one instance does not "prove" that they are useless in all instances.

 

[erin1715]

Sure, a gun's a tool. It can be used for good or ill, like any other tool.

In the event of a coordinated assault by a gang of attackers, someone with training might be able to dissuade them from attacking that restaurant. Alternatively, in the event of a lone gunman firing from a hotel window, someone with no training and a whole lot of fear and adrenaline could also use it to accidentally shoot an innocent person seeking shelter in the restaurant.

It all comes down to who's got the gun.

I just wish we wouldn't fetishize guns so very much. Backhoes are also incredibly useful, in many circumstances. They can also be dangerous and I don't have the training to handle one, so I don't own a backhoe. No one holds backhoe shows. No one collects backhoes (well, maybe one guy). No one would own one, unless they had a use for it.

That's how I feel we ought to be about our guns.

I agree with you about it depending on who owns the gun. But at that concert there apparently were at least two bands playing who were gun owners (John Rich and the previously mentioned band who said their guns would have been useless in this situation), and both of those gun owners thought rationally about whether or not to use their guns.

I don't know why people have gun fetishes, must be something within our nature. But the backhoe comparison doesn't really work because there are most certainly farm shows with this type of equipment.

 

[robinb]

Sure, a gun's a tool. It can be used for good or ill, like any other tool.

In the event of a coordinated assault by a gang of attackers, someone with training might be able to dissuade them from attacking that restaurant. Alternatively, in the event of a lone gunman firing from a hotel window, someone with no training and a whole lot of fear and adrenaline could also use it to accidentally shoot an innocent person seeking shelter in the restaurant.

It all comes down to who's got the gun.

I just wish we wouldn't fetishize guns so very much. Backhoes are also incredibly useful, in many circumstances. They can also be dangerous and I don't have the training to handle one, so I don't own a backhoe. No one holds backhoe shows. No one collects backhoes (well, maybe one guy). No one would own one, unless they had a use for it.

That's how I feel we ought to be about our guns.

It's also hard to conceal 23 backhoes in your luggage.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I live in Canada, we aren't allowed the many types of guns Americans have, and our ideology around them is very different. The idea of having a gun in the house for "protection" is crazy. Protection from what? Some people may have a hunting rifle for their annual hunting trip or in rural areas to scare off predatory animals. If the general population didn't have guns in their homes children, suicidal people wouldn't have access to them. As to the claim that having a gun increases your safety, I disagree.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24054955
http://annals.org/aim/article/18144...timization-among-household-members-systematic
https://www.bradycampaign.org/risks-of-having-a-gun-in-the-home

*33% of American households have guns.
*22% of Canadian households have guns.
*None of the guns used in this shooting are illegal in Canada.
*You linked an anti-gun site that of course will use stats that "prove" their point.

 

[bcla]

Thing is, seatbelts and the overall design of cars are designed to preserve life not to snuff life. Many firearms are designed from the ground up to kill. Some, agreeably, aren't - high end Anschütz rim fire .22 rifles such as the ones I was taught on for example.

I heard some special forces use 22 rimfire pistols designed for target shooting. Stuff like infiltration because it was extremely quiet with a suppressor.

 

[bcla]

It is not, NV no guns signs and policy do not hold any legal weight if discovered they can ask you to leave and trespass you however being that it's your temporary residence that can make things more complicated since eviction from a hotel room has it's own legal hurdles.

4th amendment protects your room from warrantless searches as well, to include hotel staff going beyond normal housekeeping and maintenance

They can refuse to allow passage. Wynn's was searching bags and using handheld wands starting Monday. They had already started using less obvious security means from last year. I was curious about this John Choate guy I heard on the radio, and found this:

http://www.ktnv.com/news/ralston/jon-ralstons-exclusive-interview-with-steve-wynn

"There are almost 40 of them at every opening of my building, plain clothes, armed, on the look-out, changing shift and being relieved every two hours so they don’t get bored.”

Wynn said he started last December planning new sophisticated, covert security measures but that it only became operational a month ago.

"We have another group of a half a dozen seals team six guys and CIA guys who are a counterterrorism unit that ... relate on a daily basis to Homeland Security, the FBI, and Metro," he said. "My company has metal detectors and devices at every entrance of the building for employees and guests that are non-visible to the public. We have done extraordinary things to make that sure we protect our employees and our guests at the hotel."​

 

[Domo]

The question is, will this be Americas Dunblane? For those of you who don't know, Dunblane was a mass culling in the UK that made the Union say, enough is enough - no more handguns, no more high powered rifles and no more guns in general.

 

[HarperLeigh]

I can't imagine that it is. It may or may not violate hotel policy.

Considering all the gun shows held in Vegas, I can’t imagine it would violate any hotel policy.

 

[erin1715]

The question is, will this be Americas Dunblane? For those of you who don't know, Dunblane was a mass culling in the UK that made the Union say, enough is enough - no more handguns, no more high powered rifles and no more guns in general.

No way.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

The question is, will this be Americas Dunblane? For those of you who don't know, Dunblane was a mass culling in the UK that made the Union say, enough is enough - no more handguns, no more high powered rifles and no more guns in general.

Short answer, No.

 

[Domo]

Did you know that airsoft guns in the UK - BB guns powered by an electric motor for a sport akin to paintballing - are regulated? Either you get registered with the UKARA by regularly attending matches or your guns will have to be painted strange colours...