LA Times publicizes Teachers Effectiveness

Your posts are laughable and are an example of why environments that aim for mediocrity can be allowed to thrive.

Huh? I don't believe you are answering the questions at hand. So, you went to middle school 20 years ago. Have you taught in a middle school classroom or even stepped in one since then? Have you seen gang violence in a middle school? Have you witnessed drug deals, 12 year old pregnant girls, weapons, and hostility in today's middle schools? Have you held a student who came to school crying because mom was slapped around last night? Have you had a student come in and tell you they were sick because they have had nothing to eat since lunch the day before?

Until you've witnessed any number of these things, then you can't tell me about inadequcy or mediocrity of education.
 
It is an example of and I doubt your qualified to speak on behalf of all middle class schools around America :thumbsup2

Show me where I said I was. You said this:

"I attended middle class schools my entire life so I can speak to exactly what is and what is not happening."

That is nothing more than a generalization.
 
Huh? I don't believe you are answering the questions at hand. So, you went to middle school 20 years ago. Have you taught in a middle school classroom or even stepped in one since then? Have you seen gang violence in a middle school? Have you witnessed drug deals, 12 year old pregnant girls, weapons, and hostility in today's middle schools? Have you held a student who came to school crying because mom was slapped around last night? Have you had a student come in and tell you they were sick because they have had nothing to eat since lunch the day before?

Until you've witnessed any number of these things, then you can't tell me about inadequcy or mediocrity of education.

I graduated from middle school in 1997. I'm more than qualified to speak about what I witnessed.

Every country has the same societal ills that you've listed yet they're managing to outpace our educational system.
 

I graduated from middle school in 1997. I'm more than qualified to speak about what I witnessed.

Every country has the same societal ills that you've listed yet they're managing to outpace our educational system.

So you are more qualified to speak about the state of education because you graduated 9 years ago than teachers currently teaching?
 
So you are more qualified to speak about the state of education because you graduated 9 years ago than teachers currently teaching?

Teachers currently teaching are just looking to cover their behinds. I'll trust Arnie Duncan, you know, the guy who is the boss of all the teachers.
 
I graduated from middle school in 1997. I'm more than qualified to speak about what I witnessed.

Every country has the same societal ills that you've listed yet they're managing to outpace our educational system.

And many (not all) of those countries only allow the richest percentage of their population to attend schools.

We have a great number of teachers from India in our school district. They tell me their students in India are not the same as the ones in the United States, because the poorer children do not attend schools. The teachers from eastern European countries who come to the united States tell us the same thing.

You know what? I have better things to do on a Friday night.

After all,

"Arguing with a fool proves there are two."

Good night, all.
 
The teachers from eastern European countries who come to the united States tell us the same thing.

The U in United States really needs to be capitalized. You didn't learn that in school? You must have suffered a traumatizing event the night before they taught that lesson.
 
But this stuff was happening since the start of time. In fact I would guess there was much more of it in the 40's and 50's? How about during the depression when people were actually starving? there were no free lunches then? Much more spousal abuse and even child abuse yet the literacy rates were higher. Do you really think all the good students have rosy home lives?

The point of this post is that teacher's are having their "effectiveness" published in a newspaper. I can guarantee that didn't happen in the 40's or 50's. Also, teachers were much more respected in the 1940's and 1950's, and kids were held accountable for their poor test scores and grades at home as well as at school. That is frequently not the case today.
 
I graduated from middle school in 1997. I'm more than qualified to speak about what I witnessed.

Every country has the same societal ills that you've listed yet they're managing to outpace our educational system.

I've had the good fortune to teach in several countries outside the United States (on 3 other continents). From my perspective, the lack of respect that teachers get and the general lack of accountability that American students have are the main reasons that U.S. schools are lagging behind schools in some other countries. And, as someone has already pointed out, the "test results" from other nations are often skewed. Many other countries do not require that all students be educated or require special ed students to be taught in a regular classroom.
 
But this stuff was happening since the start of time. In fact I would guess there was much more of it in the 40's and 50's? How about during the depression when people were actually starving? there were no free lunches then? Much more spousal abuse and even child abuse yet the literacy rates were higher. Do you really think all the good students have rosy home lives?

I've been giving this some thought because as a history major I've done some reading on the depression. I definitely don't want to diminish the struggles of those who survived the depression but I can see some major differences between now and then.

1. Poverty was greater then, but it is still a major problem in many areas today. This was a problem in my area before the economic downturn.
2. Corporal punishment at home and school forced students to want to learn. Today many students don't see a reason to learn. I also think this plays a roll in the increase of bullying and other discipline issues. The worst punishment a school can issue to a student is a out of school suspension and many students actually enjoy that.
3. The number of distractions that did not exist back then. Now we have easily accessible drugs, television, Internet, video games, cell phones, and texting. I don't think too many people would argue students today are less disciplined and thus more susceptible to the allure of these distraction instead of doing school work, even at school.
4. Finally there has been a fundamental shift in the way society views education. Many people do not respect teachers or education. This lack of respect trickles down to the students. Many students know that if they get in trouble their parents will believe them over those "incompetent school officials". This further erodes the effectiveness of a teacher trying to not only teach but control a classroom.

Anyway those are thoughts off the top of my head. I think it would make an interesting research paper. Thanks for the interesting thought.
 
I graduated from middle school in 1997. I'm more than qualified to speak about what I witnessed.

Every country has the same societal ills that you've listed yet they're managing to outpace our educational system.

There are a vast number of reason for that but I'll point to one case study. Finland is consider to have an excellent educational system that was once at the bottom. So here are some of the things that occured that help turn around their system.


For thirty years Finland has been tweaking the educational system until results were stellar. In spite of placing top in the world for education, the system is constantly being evaluated and improved. What does Finland do that other nations do not do?


Lofty Finnish Educational Standards
Finland has set education as a national priority and believes that future generations do not have prospects for a healthy lifestyle if the population is not well educated. Finland’s priorities for maintaining a healthy educational system are:

•Establishing a single, straightforward curriculum for all schools.
•Expecting good results from all students and providing extra teaching resources to get those results.
•Giving well-trained teachers respect and freedom to teach.
The citizens of Finland now believe that educating its children is a top priority and are willing to support it financially.

We donot do this in this country. We have a more, "every man for himself" view, which generally leaves poor students with the worse education possible.


Teaching Profession is Honored in Finland

In the United States, teaching is seemingly not honored. The low salaries teachers earn compared to other fields requiring Bachelor and Master’s degrees support this fact. Leaders in the United States verbally support education but do not prioritize funding for education. Finland does.

In Finland, only one in ten applicants applying for a degree in education will actually be accepted. And, once accepted, students understand they will need to earn a Master’s in Education before being allowed to teach in a classroom.




Finland stands firm on many concepts.

•While many school districts in the United States want to maintain local autonomy, Finland has a common curriculum that is strictly followed.
•In spite of downturns in the economy, Finland maintains top funding for education knowing that math and science are key to maintaining its knowledge-based economy.
•Finland also emphasizes creative problem-solving skills. After concepts are taught, students are assisted in finding skills and logic to prepare for lifelong learning.Students having problems learning are assigned tutors and remedial specialists from the first day they are evaluated until the day they graduate.•The most money and time is spent on students in grades 7 through 9 because this is where most of the struggling occurs

We don't do that here. We mainly teach to a test, we have students memorize and regurgitate simply to past a test

Read more at Suite101: Why Finland is First in Education: Learn Why Students in Finland are Ranked So High http://www.suite101.com/content/why-finland-is-first-in-education-a96642#ixzz0yWIRVAyl

This is only an example and I'm in no way meaning to suggest that every thing is great in Finland but I do think if you look around at the
countries with the best educational systems you will find some similarities that are worth being investigated.

Which is a lot more reasonable and constructive than listing Teachers name in the L.A. times IMO
 
Lofty Finnish Educational Standards
Finland has set education as a national priority and believes that future generations do not have prospects for a healthy lifestyle if the population is not well educated. Finland’s priorities for maintaining a healthy educational system are:

•Establishing a single, straightforward curriculum for all schools.


Finland stands firm on many concepts.

•While many school districts in the United States want to maintain local autonomy, Finland has a common curriculum that is strictly followed.

I would like to point out that at least the US is trying to go to this. 47 or the 50 states agreed to a unified set of Math and English standards. I'm not a Math or English teacher so I can't comment on their quality, but the Core Common standards seem like a step in the right direction.
 
Yes in the district where I live in order for the teacher to be observed by the principal they must be notified ahead of time. I believe it is 24 hours. The principal may not just come in and watch. Ad I'm not 100% sure of this fact but I do believe they are only allowed so many observations per year. I am 100% sure about the notification. If they don't want the princ. watching they just keep the door closed and if it has a window they cover it. I also know not all teachers get observed every year.
Are you serious? That would never fly in my district. They come in whenever they want and for whatever subject they want. Some of the administrators will tell first year teachers a date for their first observation because they want them to be a bit more relaxed. Personally though, I don't want to know when they are coming because I would end up over thinking things. If you do your job everyday, then no need to worry.

Observations in my district have to be done by March 31st so any time between September and April is fair game. Non-tenured teachers get 7 "official" observations and tenured get 3, but as I said before, we get many unofficial ones as well. The official ones are full write up, go in your folder observations. There is no limit to the unofficial ones. My VP usually follows up with an email if she has comments, praise or suggestions.

We also can't cover our windows, that's a big no-no. When they walk in, you better have your planbook open on your desk so that they can see what you're teaching and the standards you are meeting. We also have to post our objective for each subject on the board each day.

Most districts have a policy in place about this of some sort. In our district you were observed the first two years several times. After that it was every other year.

After several years they would just come in for about 10-15 min. a couple of times if you had previous excellent reviews. After I became a school counselor I was told that teachers have a reputation and admin. knows which ones are towing the line and which aren't.

I get this. Teachers who constantly send out kids because they can't handle their classrooms, teachers who have a lot of complaints from parents, students who admin hear complaints about over and over from students, well, word gets around. The opposite is also true.

Maybe I'll try telling my principal "not now" when he comes this year and see what he does :rotfl2:

Dawn
Wow, wow, and wow. Our observations are for the full period. That's 40 minutes for SS, Science and Health and 80 minutes if they come for Math or Literacy.

See that's where I have the problem with this merit pay thing. I ALWAYS end up with rough kids because I can handle them. I just got my class list on Wednesday for this year and I can't tell you how many kids I've already been warned about. One of the 3rd grade teachers would ask me almost every day last year about a boy she had the year before. I think she wanted me to have problems with him so that she could prove it was him and not her that was the problem. I loved the kid. :confused3

Every class I ever took had the majority of the students doing what they needed to do to succeed. That included doing homework, participating in class, interacting with the teacher, etc. Yes there were always some bad seeds but the majority of the kids were there to learn.

I think it's just an excuse to say, "oh well there might be situations at home that prevent the student from .. blah blah blah." Those situations are few and far between and if most of the kids are scoring well, the teacher is doing their job. You're gonna tell me that when 90% of a teachers students score poorly, all of those kids have issues at home that prevent their learning? Get outta here... that's why education in the country has gone down the absolute tube the past 20 years.

In middle and upper middle class schools, I'm sure that's the case. However, we don't all teach in those near perfect settings. In your mind, every student, or almost every student pays attention, does their work and goes home to a happy home. That's not everyone's reality though.

Did you ever have to steal from your school's cafeteria so you could bring food home to your younger siblings? Ever go to school in the dead of winter without a coat? Ever not been able to go on a class trip because the two dollars that it cost wasn't in the budget? Then you really can't talk.

I have kids with one or both parents in jail, kids that were placed with grandparents because mom was a junkie. One year I had a girl whose father beat her baby brother and killed him as she watched from another room. The mother was also sent to jail because she stabbed the father after watching what he was doing. Mom and dad both in jail and the girl was sent to grandma's. I've had kids whose fathers were killed in gang related shootings and kids that themselves at 9 and 10 were being recruited into that gang lifestyle. My very first year, one of my girls told me that her mother's boyfriend was touching her inappropiately and when she told her mother, she hit her and told her to stop lying. I could go on and on.

It's nothing like the school I went to growing up and it was a huge culture shock my first year. The easy answer is always, "well you don't have to stay". My answer is, "Then who will teach these kids?" I love my job, as tough as it may be. I don't think I should be penalized though for things that are way beyond my control.

Teachers currently teaching are just looking to cover their behinds. I'll trust Arnie Duncan, you know, the guy who is the boss of all the teachers.

Why are you listening to Arnie Duncan? He's not an educator. He doesn't have a degree in education. He tried this whole pay for performance thing in Chicago and it was a failure. Why would he or anyone else think it would work now?
 

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