LA Times publicizes Teachers Effectiveness

[AC7179]

I did my student teaching under an amazing teacher who worked in a very poor school district where many of the students basic needs were not being met. She did an amazing job with her class. 70 percent of those students passed the state test.

My first real job was in a school district where parental involvement was huge. I had 100 percent pass with 75 percent with honors. Those numbers were huge, and while I believe my teaching helped my students succeed, I was helped by the fact that my students had come to me at or above grade level, versus the class at the poor school district lacking in parental involvement, where students come in two or three years behind, on average.

The teacher at the poor school was the better teacher, and I'm sure that given the same students as I was, her scores would have been just as good.

 

[grafxgirl]

Most supervisors don't have firing privileges, If more teachers failed students earlier they wouldn't reach high school not knowing how to read and do basic math.

I really don't want to argue I just do agree that some more accountability and merit based pay needs to be applied to public school teachers. Everyone good or bad getting the same guaranteed pay raise every year has to stop.

I would suggest that teachers be observed regularly in their classrooms instead of being judged only on their students' test scores. There are so many things, that are out of the teacher's hands, that affect a student's educational achievements, and teachers do their very best to figure out ways to provide each child with the best possible education that they can. Things like home environment, parents who are/are not involved in their education, students who may come from impoverished families, students with learning disabilities/behavioral issues, motivational issues, what type of learner they are, and what is the school able to provide as far as learning materials are concerned.

 

[MM27]

My tax dollars pay for police, firemen, garbagemen, etc. When are their stats going to be published in the paper?

There is just so much wrong with this. Can you imagine the teacher requests once the paper comes out? I can't see one positive to this type of thing. Heck, why not publish the individual student scores.

Even tracking individual students is a problem because the testing varies from grade to grade. In New Jersey, kids start taking the NJASK in 3rd grade. NJASK is a secure, standardized test that changes from year to year.

The NJPASS is administered to 2nd graders. NJPASS is done in house. That means that the same test is given year after year after year. Not surprisingly, most of the 2nd graders do really, really well on it. Hmmm, wonder why that happens?

I had a student last year (in 4th grade) that wasn't performing anywhere near grade level. I referred him to the child study team and it was interesting when we pulled out his test scores from previous years. In 2nd grade he was Advanced Proficient on the NJPASS. In 3rd grade he was Partially Proficient (meaning he didn't pass) on the NJASK. We see that happen to a lot of kids from 2nd to 3rd grade. So what happens? Do all the 3rd grade teachers suck the smarts from these kids? Their names are all going to go into the paper as being non-effective. This kid by the way, ended up being testing and qualified for special ed services. Luckily the child study team members took my input into account moreso than just those test scores.

 

[MM27]

Are there really teachers out there that are never observed? My principal, vice principal, director of elementary education, subject area supervisors and even the superintendent have all observed me at some time or another. My VP comes into the classroom just about every day. She sometimes just walks through (we call those Drive Bys ) but many times she will sit down and watch, talk to kids about what we are doing and why we are doing it, participate, etc. Principal doesn't do it as often, but he does come around.

In my district, any non-tenured teacher has to have one of their observations each year done by the director of elementary education. I have seen people not get offered contracts the next year and I think most of them have come from her saying so.

We have supervisors or coaches for each subject area. I have a science supervisor that comes in once a week. Sometimes we team teach, other times she just observes and then we meet after to discuss what was done, how it could be tweaked for the next time.
Here's a little brag: My class last year did awesome on the NJASK science test. I had 100% proficiency in one class and 98% in the other class and many of those kids were advanced proficient

My superintendent is also very present in the schools. He observed me last year for a math lesson I did.

I always say that my classroom should have a revolving door on it because so many people are in and out on a daily basis.

 

[AC7179]

I did my student teaching under an amazing teacher who worked in a very poor school district where many of the students basic needs were not being met. She did an amazing job with her class. 70 percent of those students passed the state test.

My first real job was in a school district where parental involvement was huge. I had 100 percent pass with 75 percent with honors. Those numbers were huge, and while I believe my teaching helped my students succeed, I was helped by the fact that my students had come to me at or above grade level, versus the class at the poor school district lacking in parental involvement, where students come in two or three years behind, on average.

The teacher at the poor school was the better teacher, and I'm sure that given the same students as I was, her scores would have been just as good.

 

[Pigeon]

Teachers should no more be judged by the same criteria than any other job. Secretaries, lawyers and sales clerks are evaluated according to the needs of their particular institution.

This attempt to homogenize education has certainly not helped the previously much better district where my kids go.

Teachers can absolutely be fired and they are evaluated. In order to fire a teacher who has tenure, the administration has to take a set of steps and document. I think that's a good thing.

There are some terrible administrators. Dh had a principal last year who was all about test scores. Not about the kids learning anything, but about the teachers essentially cheating for the kids and not grading fairly. He hated dh because dh didn't want to cheat on grading the tests, and he punished him by putting every low achieving or misbehaving kid in his class last year.

 

[DawnM]

This is very tough. I agree in teacher accountability, I taught for many years, but I also know that I cannot be held responsible for what my students do when it comes to performance, especially at the high school level.

I worked in LA Unified for all of my 16 years before we moved to NC. I worked in one of the LOWEST performing schools in the city. We had 5,400 students and we called it a revolving door because every year we had over 1,500 students leave throughout the year and a new 1,500 come. It was a very transient area. 98% of our students were Latino, with over 70% being limited English proficient. Truancy rates were very high, students would stay home to babysit if Mom needed it, students would go back to their countries for months at a time, and on and on the issues would go.

I did the best I felt *I* could do, but with the scores we consistently got on our standardized tests, we were well aware that the issues were beyond our control.

Then you have to ask how to evaluate other teachers, those who are not part of what is tested. Special Education, ESL, Elective classes, ROTC, PE, and on and on. They get out of it because students aren't tested in those areas on standardized testing?

And then those teachers who teach all honors and AP classes get free rides because their kids actually have a desire to achieve? They may also be good teachers, but they have all the tools they need (students who do a lot of the work themselves) to make sure they have job security.

I am all for performance reviews. Yes, they can be flawed if your principal doesn't like you, etc....but ultimately, I WANT them to see me teach and evaluate that. And believe me, I wanted my students to succeed, but there were so many other issues going on.

Student achievement sounds good on paper, but implementation is often difficult.

Dawn

 

[Hannathy]

Are there really teachers out there that are never observed?

Yes in the district where I live in order for the teacher to be observed by the principal they must be notified ahead of time. I believe it is 24 hours. The principal may not just come in and watch. Ad I'm not 100% sure of this fact but I do believe they are only allowed so many observations per year. I am 100% sure about the notification. If they don't want the princ. watching they just keep the door closed and if it has a window they cover it. I also know not all teachers get observed every year.

 

[eliza61]

Here is the link to the article: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-qanda-20100816,0,4120439.story

What do you all think about this? They're claiming that posting the results will make the teachers work harder and become more effective if necessary? The government likes it, per Arnie Duncan's speech. The parents like it.

I'm personally in favor of it as I think teachers need to be held accountable for how their students are performing.

I think it's the dumbest thing coming out since No child left behind and standardized test. The only thing this will do is make the teachers more inclined to do every thing in the power to make sure that the kids past a test instead of fostering a learning environment.

What happens if you get some kids who are special needs in your class? If your a H.S. teacher and your class is full of kids who are already 2 grade levels behind, are you graded against a class of kids who are honors students?

It's funny I was reading an article in the Christian science monitor about how the U.S. once #1 in college graduates is now 7th and I immediately thought it was caused by the cost of sending a kid to college but found out that it's more because colleges are now saying students are ill prepared to enter college.

 

[DawnM]

Most districts have a policy in place about this of some sort. In our district you were observed the first two years several times. After that it was every other year.

After several years they would just come in for about 10-15 min. a couple of times if you had previous excellent reviews. After I became a school counselor I was told that teachers have a reputation and admin. knows which ones are towing the line and which aren't.

I get this. Teachers who constantly send out kids because they can't handle their classrooms, teachers who have a lot of complaints from parents, students who admin hear complaints about over and over from students, well, word gets around. The opposite is also true.

Dawn

Yes in the district where I live in order for the teacher to be observed by the principal they must be notified ahead of time. I believe it is 24 hours. The principal may not just come in and watch. Ad I'm not 100% sure of this fact but I do believe they are only allowed so many observations per year. I am 100% sure about the notification. If they don't want the princ. watching they just keep the door closed and if it has a window they cover it. I also know not all teachers get observed every year.

 

[gina2000]

Parents are paying tax dollars for public education and I'm pretty sure you're not contributing anything to help parents raise their children, so not really a fair tradeoff.

Last time I looked, I was a taxpayer, federal, state and local, in the district in which I teach. I contribute to welfare checks, food stamps, and Section 8housing. I support Special Ed, Gifted and Talented, and regular ed students. I'm very happy to do so. But I am not naive enough to believe that parents who want the best to their children are always able to give the best. Neglect, abuse, and benign indifference are all major contributors to a student's psyche. I can't erase those problems. A student may
see the merit of breaking the cycle of poverty but I cannot go into a home and psychobabble the parent. I am not a god. I am a teacher who cares about students, gives the most I can each and every day, and hopes that the students gain knowledge in the present and hope for the future.

I wish I could control a student's future. I wish I could know that the student had a parent that checked homework each night, fed a student each night, paid attention to the student each night. That's not the way it is.

You would be heartbroken to hear the stories I hear. You would better understand why the system cannot control a student's future, nor can it bandaid a student's problems. All I can be is a 94 minute mentor, mother, and companion to these kids. I cannot follow them home, feed them dinner, check their homework or tuck them in. And believe it or not, that's what it takes. Everyone needs it.

I don't know too many adults with major problems who can perform well on a regular basis. Why does society think that children can?

 

[Hannathy]

I think a principal should be able to just open a door and walk in and observe any old time they feel like it. I think giving days notice they are coming and that they can only come during that declared time periods crazy and not conducive to good evaluating. Any one can turn it on for an hour.

 

[eliza61]

Op, can the teachers get a chance to hold you accountable and grade you.

A childs home atmosphere definitely contributes to how well they do in school. Shouldn't there be some type of accountability for parents?

Heck if I'm being scored on how well a kid does on a test, I want to know. Is the kid getting enough sleep, food to eat, doing their homework?

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Op, can the teachers get a chance to hold you accountable and grade you.

A childs home atmosphere definitely contributes to how well they do in school. Shouldn't there be some type of accountability for parents?

Heck if I'm being scored on how well a kid does on a test, I want to know. Is the kid getting enough sleep, food to eat, doing their homework?

How do you propose punishing parents for not making sure their kids get enough sleep or completing their homework?

 

[gina2000]

I think a principal should be able to just open a door and walk in and observe any old time they feel like it. I think giving days notice they are coming and that they can only come during that declared time periods crazy and not conducive to good evaluating. Any one can turn it on for an hour.

I've never been given advanced notice of an observation and I've been observed many times more than the required amount per year. I turn in lesson plans and the principal picks a date. He shows up. He observes. He leaves. He writes up his observation, etc., etc.

I invite any and all to visit my classroom at any time. I have nothing to hide and nothing to turn on.

 

[palavra]

I think a principal should be able to just open a door and walk in and observe any old time they feel like it. I think giving days notice they are coming and that they can only come during that declared time periods crazy and not conducive to good evaluating. Any one can turn it on for an hour.

You are basing your ideas on just your school system. I've taught in several places and have had unannounced observations at all of them. Alos, there are many school systems that don't have a strong union involvement or tenure any more.

 

[gina2000]

How do you propose punishing parents for not making sure their kids get enough sleep or completing their homework?

You can't. If you can't hold parents accountable for their children's educational life at home, how can you hold teacher's accountable for their student's educational life at home.

Home life ain't the whole problem but it's enough of a contributor that it can't be discounted or discredited when looking at student performance.

 

[eliza61]

How do you propose punishing parents for not making sure their kids get enough sleep or completing their homework?

Don't know but if I'm going to be "punished" for performance, I think it's only fair that I get to know all the factors that contribute to that performance.

See how idiotic this entire proposal is? If I've got some alcoholic pop beating the crap out of a student, why should my rating suffer because that kid can't perform? how are you going to weigh in the things that I have no control over?

 

[palavra]

Is it any wonder that i started the teacher myths thread? What some people know about education and teaching wouldn't fill a thimble.

Let's see-how can a teacher be effectively evaluated? What about looking at a number of criteria including test scores, evaluations, parent surveys, student assessments other than test scores, copies of lesson plans, peer eveluations and extra training sessions or courses taken during the school year.

 

[eliza61]

Is it any wonder that i started the teacher myths thread? What some people know about education and teaching wouldn't fill a thimble.

Let's see-how can a teacher be effectively evaluated? What about looking at a number of criteria including test scores, evaluations, parent surveys, student assessments other than test scores, copies of lesson plans, peer eveluations and extra training sessions or courses taken during the school year.

palavra, you and other teachers have my utmost respect. You guys are the latest 'whipping" boys for a society that always wants to find a quick fix instead of finding real solutions.

In 2008 California had a graduation rate of less than 70% and all they can come up with is put some magical ranking on the teachers based on test and then publicize it like a scarlet letter. Jeez.