LA Times publicizes Teachers Effectiveness

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Here is the link to the article: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-qanda-20100816,0,4120439.story

What do you all think about this? They're claiming that posting the results will make the teachers work harder and become more effective if necessary? The government likes it, per Arnie Duncan's speech. The parents like it.

I'm personally in favor of it as I think teachers need to be held accountable for how their students are performing.

 

[princessmom29]

When you are willing to have your annual performance review based on what your EMPLOYEES, not you, were able to acieve in a year posted for the world to measure you by, then I think it would be ok to post the same info about teachers. Value added is aflawed measure by nature, becuase a a child who came to me scoring in the 50% range and leaves scoring in the 59%(still failing and little has been done to improve that) carries more weight than a child that came to me already scoring 99%. There is not much room to improve that. Does that mean I didn't teach that child anything, and I am a bad teacher becuase I didn't show any value added? I teach mostly the 90-99% kids so I would be labled an "ineffective teacher" in this model even if my students are learnig and doing well. Most of them already scale out the "grade level" testing. They function above a 12th grade level so there is no way to measure "improvement" on the test they are already making 100% on.

 

[wgwtgb]

What happens when you get a child that moves into your class from another district a week before the test? Should you be accountable for his scores too??? What about mainstreamed schools with SpEd students in the classes. Should you be accountable for their scores also???

 

[Pigeon]

I think it's ridiculous. So much of student achievement on standardized tests is out of the teacher's hands. It puts teachers in an impossible situation.

And this disproportionate emphasis on test scores is killing education. The tests are endlessly manipulated by state education departments for political goals, so they are pretty much meaningless.

 

[RadioNate]

I'm actually appalled. Let's just put everyone's performance reviews in the paper. Better yet, let's judge them on what their subordinates do.

I have a 4th grader. He went to 3rd grade in FL. 3rd grade is the big, 1st FCAT year. Guess what 1-5 grade my DS was aiming to get. A 2. He was shooting to get a 2 on the test. Why? Because that is the minimum score he needed to pass 3rd grade. He just didn't care to do better because the only thing he cared about was passing 3rd grade. He could not have cared less about the fact that teacher pay and school funding may have been connected to his test scores. He wanted to pass 3rd grade period and was going to do the minimum possible on "some stupid test" (his words) because in his eyes there was no difference between a 2 and a 5 since the result to him (passing) was the same.

If this is a common attitude among students why should be teachers be held responsible for their scores.

And don't even get my started on socioeconomic factors because they do effect kids performance in school and on standardized testing. Parental involvement matters. Studies have shown time and time again that the higher the parents level of education the better the kids do on standardized tests.

But of course it is ALL the teacher.

 

[daughtersrus]

Here is the link to the article: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-qanda-20100816,0,4120439.story

What do you all think about this? They're claiming that posting the results will make the teachers work harder and become more effective if necessary? The government likes it, per Arnie Duncan's speech. The parents like it.

I'm personally in favor of it as I think teachers need to be held accountable for how their students are performing.

This is one subject that comes up so often. How do you hold a teacher responsible for how their students perform on a test when so many other factors come into play. How is the student's home life? Does the student have the tools needed to do well in school? Are the student's parents involved in the child's education? Does the student have any learning disabilities? Does the student attend school regularly? Are the students motivated to do well on the test?...

I'm not sure I give what Arnie Duncan has to say a lot of credit. He has no idea what it's like to teach in a classroom.

As to the article itself. It says that they only developed scores for teachers that taught 60 or more students. That pretty much would leave out all elementary teachers.

 

[Buckalew11]

I think it is a horrible thing. I think the emphasis we put on all this testing is ridiculous and very sad.

 

[Hannathy]

When you are willing to have your annual performance review based on what your EMPLOYEES, not you, were able to acieve in a year posted for the world to measure you by, then I think it would be ok to post the same info about teachers.

uh... This is true, this is how many many people are judged at their job. Nothing new or surprising there. I'm not sure if this is the exact way teachers should be held accountable but something has to be done too many are calling it in and nothing can be done because of tenure and union protection.

 

[paintnolish]

uh... This is true, this is how many many people are judged at their job. Nothing new or surprising there. I'm not sure if this is the exact way teachers should be held accountable but something has to be done too many are calling it in and nothing can be done because of tenure and union protection.

Maybe, but don't most people care about their jobs or at least about making money? Wouldn't that be some motivation for a subordinate to do well? Many students don't care about the test. Why would they care if their school makes AYP? It means nothing to them. When I sat through standardized testing, I always did my best, but I also viewed it as a day (or more) off of regular school.
Also, it is true that it is more difficult to get rid of a tenured teacher, but it sure can be done!




I have been student teaching in a school with a 50% poverty level and a large minority population. There is no way a "standardized" test can accurately measure the growth of such a diverse population! I feel some people think teachers are against stardardized testing because it holds them accountable. I don't object to being held accountable, and I certainly understand where some people are coming from when they say they advocate standardized testing. The general population has the best interests of the students in mind, but these tests just don't help. Teachers take time out of normal curriculum to teach them how to take the test. It's a waste of time.

 

[gina2000]

When parents are forced to prove that they are effective parents, I'll be happy to prove that I'm an effective teacher.

How's that for a fair tradeoff?

 

[tarheel618]

nevermind.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

When parents are forced to prove that they are effective parents, I'll be happy to prove that I'm an effective teacher.

How's that for a fair tradeoff?

Parents are paying tax dollars for public education and I'm pretty sure you're not contributing anything to help parents raise their children, so not really a fair tradeoff.

 

[Hannathy]

Yes but you can fire people under you. A teacher can't remove a non performer from the classroom.

Most supervisors don't have firing privileges, If more teachers failed students earlier they wouldn't reach high school not knowing how to read and do basic math.

I really don't want to argue I just do agree that some more accountability and merit based pay needs to be applied to public school teachers. Everyone good or bad getting the same guaranteed pay raise every year has to stop.

For those against this method How would you judge the teachers?

 

[npcougar]

So do dentists get reviewed on how many cavities you get? If the principal doesn't like you, they can fill your class full of under achievers and LD students. What a ridiculous system.

 

[a1tinkfans]

Here is the link to the article: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-qanda-20100816,0,4120439.story

What do you all think about this? They're claiming that posting the results will make the teachers work harder and become more effective if necessary? The government likes it, per Arnie Duncan's speech. The parents like it.

I'm personally in favor of it as I think teachers need to be held accountable for how their students are performing.

Well the Taxpayers pay part of the salary and those Salaries are already published in our area...as are Govt salaries and salaries for companies that Take Federal funding.......so now they want the actual performance grades in the paper....what do they think will come of it? Some Teachers are good, there are some average ones and some poor...they rarely do anything about the poor performing ones...its called tenure, so I do not see this as helping anyone...just more "big brother" IMHO.

 

[npcougar]

For those against this method How would you judge the teachers?

Principals should be the ones who judge teachers. If principals would actually do their jobs and evaluate the teachers, then the system would be better. Poor teachers would either improve or be released. Instead principals don't force the issue and bad apples stay in the system.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

So do dentists get reviewed on how many cavities you get? If the principal doesn't like you, they can fill your class full of under achievers and LD students. What a ridiculous system.

Just like a boss can assign a bunch of todos to your team to complete a project in Corporate America. Life isn't always fair.

 

[Bilberry]

I enjoyed this article by Steve Sailor about teachers and school performance.

"Bad Students, Not Bad Schools"
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2010/08/bad-students-not-bad-schools.html

But at the same time believe that there needs to be a way to fire irresponsible teachers easier than the current teachers union allows.

Some Who Can't Teach Still Do
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna...01008191856/Some-Who-Cant-Teach-Still-Do.aspx

 

[npcougar]

Just like a boss can assign a bunch of todos to your team to complete a project in Corporate America. Life isn't always fair.

In corporate America you go out and get another job. In the education system, schools don't hire teachers with experience so your career is effectively over.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

In corporate America you go out and get another job. In the education system, schools don't hire teachers with experience so your career is effectively over.

You go out and get another job? Really? Even right now?