Kiely Rodni missing persons case in Lake Tahoe - body found

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thank goodness for volunteer organizations who apparently do what the police can't or won't after over 2 weeks.

That's why I was surprised the group could find the car in 35 mins. It's not like they used anything different than the police. They used sonar and diving. Just like the police. It's odd right there IMO

 

[fla4fun]

That's why I was surprised the group could find the car in 35 mins. It's not like they used anything different than the police. They used sonar and diving. Just like the police. It's odd right there IMO

Yes, that was concerning. I wondered if the police spaced their sonar runs just far enough apart that the target didn’t appear. It takes a long time to do sonar over an entire lake, so they may have been doing more of a wide sweep to cover more area. Since the volunteers do this often, as a sort of specialty, they may have had better instincts about how the car would have reacted in the lake and how tight the sonar runs needed to be. I don’t think the delay would have affected the outcome in this case, other than preventing the long wait for the family to know the truth.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don’t think the delay would have affected the outcome in this case, other than preventing the long wait for the family to know the truth.

I don't think it would have either but it would have reduced the manpower used for the search and perhaps given less time for decomp to do an investigation (purely a random out loud thought).

The police did basically say they weren't necessarily experts so it's not like I blame them really but it's sorta like okay they found this car extremely quick, it's not like days worth of searching after the police did it. Your point about distance between sonar though is a good one.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Yes, that was concerning. I wondered if the police spaced their sonar runs just far enough apart that the target didn’t appear. It takes a long time to do sonar over an entire lake, so they may have been doing more of a wide sweep to cover more area. Since the volunteers do this often, as a sort of specialty, they may have had better instincts about how the car would have reacted in the lake and how tight the sonar runs needed to be. I don’t think the delay would have affected the outcome in this case, other than preventing the long wait for the family to know the truth.

I agree. I have also read about several old cases in the past few years where some of these more recent diving groups (who do it as a hobby, or maybe a business in some cases) have found cars submerged for many years - sometimes decades - often of people who’d left a party never to be seen or heard from again. Really eerie, but nice for their loved ones to finally have answers. That was the sense I got from this case, as well - we’d heard at the outset she‘d been really drunk. I was afraid someone had taken advantage of that and abducted her. Sad to hear what actually happened, but glad it had a relatively fast resolution and that her demise wasn’t the result of a crime (other than her own mistakes). Suicide was not something that came out at me. I think back to my days at this age and I feel fortunate nothing bad ever happened, as it could have.

 

[Moliphino]

I agree. I have also read about several old cases in the past few years where some of these more recent diving groups (who do it as a hobby, or maybe a business in some cases) have found cars submerged for many years - sometimes decades - often of people who’d left a party never to be seen or heard from again. Really eerie, but nice for their loved ones to finally have answers. That was the sense I got from this case, as well - we’d heard at the outset she‘d been really drunk. I was afraid someone had taken advantage of that and abducted her. Sad to hear what actually happened, but glad it had a relatively fast resolution and that her demise wasn’t the result of a crime (other than her own mistakes). Suicide was not something that came out at me. I think back to my days at this age and I feel fortunate nothing bad ever happened, as it could have.

I remember this one, who was actually found by someone looking at his old house on Google maps and noticed a car in the pond. The car had been there for decades and nobody knew.

https://www.livescience.com/google-earth-submerged-car-missing-person.html

 

[tvguy]

That's why I was surprised the group could find the car in 35 mins. It's not like they used anything different than the police. They used sonar and diving. Just like the police. It's odd right there IMO

Actually, no. Law Enforcement only had side sonar. This hobbyist group had a $12,000 Garmin sonar system. Plus they use it on almost a weekly basis, where as the outside law enforcement agency that brought the less sophisticated hadn't used it in a year.
Most water search teams here are all volunteers, although a lot of those volunteers are law enforcement and firefighters.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Actually, no. Law Enforcement only had side sonar. This hobbyist group had a $12,000 Garmin sonar system. Plus they use it on almost a weekly basis, where as the outside law enforcement agency that brought the less sophisticated hadn't used it in a year.
Most water search teams here are all volunteers, although a lot of those volunteers are law enforcement and firefighters.

It's still sonar. You wouldn't be able to say "well we just had crappy sonar" not when you're searching for a body or a vehicle. Plus according to the below comment it was high end and expensive.

"Capt. Sam Brown with the Nevada County Sheriff’s Office said Monday that the lake had been “extensively searched” with sonar, divers and swimmers" "A lot of this equipment is high-end, very expensive and you really need to have a lot of practice and expertise"

The police are already admitting their faults mostly they were just not the best to actually be searching, it was not their expertise. For me it was more how quickly they found the vehicle. 35 mins vs saying you extensively searched it with sonar, divers and swimmers. There's no doubt the group who do these cold cases and missing person cases are specialized that does not however negate other factors as well. It would have been less of a "hmm" moment had it taken this other groups days and days of searching as well.

I've seen search and recover efforts from various shows and it's no joke how much they have to do so like I said I'm not blaming them but on the other hand it makes for a case to learn from it or that they need to have ways to more effectively call in experts. According to the article poste in the OP there were 73 personnel working the case prior to this past sunday when that was reduced to 7 and 7 helicopters searching. This team found the car in 35 mins. I think that speaks to something.

 

[tvguy]

It's still sonar. You wouldn't be able to say "well we just had crappy sonar" not when you're searching for a body or a vehicle. Plus according to the below comment it was high end and expensive.

"Capt. Sam Brown with the Nevada County Sheriff’s Office said Monday that the lake had been “extensively searched” with sonar, divers and swimmers" "A lot of this equipment is high-end, very expensive and you really need to have a lot of practice and expertise"

The police are already admitting their faults mostly they were just not the best to actually be searching, it was not their expertise. For me it was more how quickly they found the vehicle. 35 mins vs saying you extensively searched it with sonar, divers and swimmers. There's no doubt the group who do these cold cases and missing person cases are specialized that does not however negate other factors as well. It would have been less of a "hmm" moment had it taken this other groups days and days of searching as well.

I've seen search and recover efforts from various shows and it's no joke how much they have to do so like I said I'm not blaming them but on the other hand it makes for a case to learn from it or that they need to have ways to more effectively call in experts. According to the article poste in the OP there were 73 personnel working the case prior to this past sunday when that was reduced to 7 and 7 helicopters searching. This team found the car in 35 mins. I think that speaks to something.

You left the word "side" out of Brown's statement on sonar. Different equipment.
Adventures With a Purpose began their search SATURDAY and found the car SUNDAY, over 24 hours later, not 35 minutes.
https://www.kron4.com/news/california/how-did-adventures-with-purpose-find-kiely-rodnis-suv/

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I remember this one, who was actually found by someone looking at his old house on Google maps and noticed a car in the pond. The car had been there for decades and nobody knew.

https://www.livescience.com/google-earth-submerged-car-missing-person.html

Yes! I think they are finding more, too, as water levels have receded in many bodies of water.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You left the word "side" out of Brown's statement on sonar. Different equipment.
Adventures With a Purpose began their search SATURDAY and found the car SUNDAY, over 24 hours later, not 35 minutes.
https://www.kron4.com/news/california/how-did-adventures-with-purpose-find-kiely-rodnis-suv/

I didn't leave out anything. I took quotes from the article in the OP

Also from the article

"Doug Bishop of AWP said the team began its investigation at Prosser Creek Reservoir Sunday at 10:40 a.m. It placed two sonar boats in the water and by 11:15 a.m., their technology had detected an object underwater. Bishop said he then confirmed the object was a vehicle under 14 feet of water, about 55 feet offshore."

 

[TheIncredibles!]

That's why I was surprised the group could find the car in 35 mins. It's not like they used anything different than the police. They used sonar and diving. Just like the police. It's odd right there IMO

Why does this group find as many people as they do? It really seems like basic common sense when then decide where they will search.

 

[tvguy]

I didn't leave out anything. I took quotes from the article in the OP

Also from the article

"Doug Bishop of AWP said the team began its investigation at Prosser Creek Reservoir Sunday at 10:40 a.m. It placed two sonar boats in the water and by 11:15 a.m., their technology had detected an object underwater. Bishop said he then confirmed the object was a vehicle under 14 feet of water, about 55 feet offshore."

This is the quote I am referencing. Law enforcment used side sonar......that is sonar from the surface on the side of a boat. The volunteer search group had a much more sophisticated sonar, a $12,000 Garmin submersible sonar.

“The lake was extensively searched with side sonar, with an ROV, we had divers, we had swimmers,” said Nevada County Sheriff’s Office Capt. Sam Brown. “I think that’s part of what we’re going to have to go back to do and debrief. When peace officers are out in the field and volunteers and searchers, it doesn’t mean they’re experts in the field. These are sometimes ancillary duties or calling from other agencies to try to jump in, and tracking underwater is an extremely difficult thing to do.”

https://www.kron4.com/news/california/how-did-adventures-with-purpose-find-kiely-rodnis-suv/

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is the quote I am referencing. Law enforcment used side sonar......that is sonar from the surface on the side of a boat. The volunteer search group had a much more sophisticated sonar, a $12,000 Garmin submersible sonar.

“The lake was extensively searched with side sonar, with an ROV, we had divers, we had swimmers,” said Nevada County Sheriff’s Office Capt. Sam Brown. “I think that’s part of what we’re going to have to go back to do and debrief. When peace officers are out in the field and volunteers and searchers, it doesn’t mean they’re experts in the field. These are sometimes ancillary duties or calling from other agencies to try to jump in, and tracking underwater is an extremely difficult thing to do.”

https://www.kron4.com/news/california/how-did-adventures-with-purpose-find-kiely-rodnis-suv/

Then understand I didn't leave anything out. I took what they said to that article.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Why does this group find as many people as they do? It really seems like basic common sense when then decide where they will search.

I'm not sure but they sure seem to be good at it. I vaguely remember hearing about them from a different case.

I looked around and saw an article from May where it described it started as environmental cleaning up waterways but then discovered a vehicle one time, then a person who owned a towing company joined and it switched to focusing on pulling vehicles mostly out and then one time they found remains inside a vehicle so it sounds like that was the catalyst to the missing person and cold case stuff.

It really sounds like reading that article from May it's not sonar equipment itself necessarily rather "many police departments may have sonar equipment but may not understand all the technicalities that go along with it." And they go on to say ""There’s no school, really that exists, that teaches sonar," Bishop said, adding that he and the team have had to learn the equipment as they go on missions." And I don't think they had the most amazing sonar equipment in the beginning when it was just environmental pulling vehicles out of the water. I'm sure they upgraded over time.

So self-taught specialized learning as they go apparently is a crucial part to how they are finding people. Sounds like getting better each time perhaps?

 

[tvguy]

I'm not sure but they sure seem to be good at it. I vaguely remember hearing about them from a different case.

I looked around and saw an article from May where it described it started as environmental cleaning up waterways but then discovered a vehicle one time, then a person who owned a towing company joined and it switched to focusing on pulling vehicles mostly out and then one time they found remains inside a vehicle so it sounds like that was the catalyst to the missing person and cold case stuff.

It really sounds like reading that article from May it's not sonar equipment itself necessarily rather "many police departments may have sonar equipment but may not understand all the technicalities that go along with it." And they go on to say ""There’s no school, really that exists, that teaches sonar," Bishop said, adding that he and the team have had to learn the equipment as they go on missions." And I don't think they had the most amazing sonar equipment in the beginning when it was just environmental pulling vehicles out of the water. I'm sure they upgraded over time.

So self-taught specialized learning as they go apparently is a crucial part to how they are finding people. Sounds like getting better each time perhaps?

Hobbyists do seem to have more experience and better equipment. I'm sure some Federal Agency might have a team with better training and equipment, but as this was a recovery operation, not a rescue, not sure it rose to the level to activate such a team if they were available.
Lord, look at how many bodies Lake Mead has been hiding for decades. At least one as I recall was a drowning victim in an area that was extensively searched at the time of the drowning.

 

[kymom99]

One time about 10 minutes from me, a car was in interstate traffic crossing a bridge over the river. Another vehicle ran into it and pushed it over the side of the bridge. So sad. Witnesses thought it was an suv and could only say it was red. The vague description made it hard to identify who might have been in the vehicle. They were not able to dive for it because at the time the river current was too fast. They found a distant security camera that captured the car going off the bridge. They were waiting for someone to report someone missing but no one came forward.

They finally were able to get to the car days later and it was a sedan, not an suv but it was red. They found one man still in the vehicle. The man in the car was driving home from work when the accident happened. He had no family in this area so no one realized he was missing.

Water recovery is tricky. Especially when they don’t know for sure there is even anything to recover. In this case, the young lady could have been anywhere. That could be why they weren’t spending a lot of time at the lake.

 

[bcla]

Hobbyists do seem to have more experience and better equipment. I'm sure some Federal Agency might have a team with better training and equipment, but as this was a recovery operation, not a rescue, not sure it rose to the level to activate such a team if they were available.
Lord, look at how many bodies Lake Mead has been hiding for decades. At least one as I recall was a drowning victim in an area that was extensively searched at the time of the drowning.

I'm darn sure that the US Navy and possibly others in the DoD have the equipment and training to do this sort of thing, especially when they have to deal with the recovery of potentially sensitive equipment. If they can recover an F-35 from the bottom of the ocean floor, they could probably managed to find a car in a small reservoir.

However, it's probably a matter of dealing with the sophistication of the equipment. Commercial equipment is probably pretty good, but not likely to be military grade.

 

[tvguy]

I'm darn sure that the US Navy and possibly others in the DoD have the equipment and training to do this sort of thing, especially when they have to deal with the recovery of potentially sensitive equipment. If they can recover an F-35 from the bottom of the ocean floor, they could probably managed to find a car in a small reservoir.

However, it's probably a matter of dealing with the sophistication of the equipment. Commercial equipment is probably pretty good, but not likely to be military grade.

No doubt. But this situation probably didn't rise to the level that they needed to call in the Navy.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In this case, the young lady could have been anywhere. That could be why they weren’t spending a lot of time at the lake.

Yeah for sure and I don't think anyone is negating how water recovery can be. They did have a lot of people on the case however. I don't know about you but more than 70 people is a lot. The helicopters (7 of them) were patrolling an 80 mile radius from when she was last seen which was the reservoir. The last ping on her cell phone was at the reservoir. Although as I understand it they were initially treating this as a possible abduction so I can understand starting out wide at first.

One thing I'm reading from an article posted about an hour ago is "the area had been "extensively searched," including by plane, helicopter, boat, and divers. The water level had dropped three feet since Rodni's disappearance on Aug. 6." So that at least could help having a slightly lower depth in the water.

 

[penn19]

Huh? She met friends there. Why is it weird to drive yourself if you're able? Sometimes you don't want to rely on someone else to get home.

Or if she had a curfew and her friends didn’t? Suicide would never cross my mind. But what do I know?