Kids Kicked out of School for Wearing American Flag Tshirts

[Sanchez]

Thank you. I'm a flag-waving, proud American who fully believes in free speech. I'm a person who can recognize kids being cheeky. I'm also an educator that wants to teach those cheeky kids a better, more productive way of forming and expressing those ideas.

It is not an educator's responsibility to teach students how to best express political views, but only to teach whether they can or cannot. In this case, it appears that they certainly had the right to do so.

 

[Scurvy]

Ultimately, in my little solution, everyone participates. The protesters on both sides are the debaters. Everyone else gets to watch the debate at assembly. And learn how to listen. Respectfully. Of course in "Perfect" we have semi-weekly assemblies, fully funded education systems, and teachers allowed to move beyond the material tested through scantrons.

That makes sense, and it sounds like an excellent solution. In this particular case, though, it doesn't sound like there were protesters on both sides. There were people wearing flags on both sides, and there were protesters on one side. Of course, there could have been American flag wearing students who were also protesting, but that wasn't mentioned in any of the articles that I have found.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

The more I am thinking about these kids and their American flag shirts….Honestly, if they wore the shirts out of spite—GOOD FOR THEM!

How dare you come to MY country, and tell ME I can’t wear MY flag on your special little day

What if I don’t care about Cinco de Mayo? And, really. I don’t It was nice that Corona drafts were only a dollar, but other than that, well, I really don’t care.

What if I am a bit angry that you DARE to think that MY flag in MY country should be tucked away for even one minute

It may not be politically correct, it may not sound educated—But I am so sick of this nonsense

So, if those boys _did_ wear the flag out of spite, good for them. Maybe they are tired of being pushed around by people that want to hang the Mexican flag above the USA flag

Don't EVER tell an American that the cannot wear THEIR country's flag.

As other posters have pointed out, Congress has stated that we should not be wearing the flag:

4 U.S.C. § 8
***
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or
drapery. ***
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored
in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or
damaged in any way.
***
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of
it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure,
design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving,
holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any
manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as
cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise
impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed
for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be
fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or
athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the
uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of
patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and
is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin
being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

 

[Luvchefmic]

You know what Professor....school is out...done....you have made your points, don't "educate" us here now.....p l e a s e .....and FYI lately Congress needs to be reminded about our country & flag....and our citizens...so at this point I am agreeing to disagree with you and moving on

 

[Sanchez]

As other posters have pointed out, Congress has stated that we should not be wearing the flag:

As a law professor you know that should and shall are very different. Further, I do not see how this has any relevance to the situation.

 

[hentob]

As other posters have pointed out, Congress has stated that we should not be wearing the flag:

I think they are talking about a real American Flag made into clothing Like if you cut up a cloth flag and made it into a shirt or a drape.


I don't think that pertains to a picture of Old Glory. Or a silkscreen of it. Or a flag pin. If that is the case, imagine all of those proud veterans that wear the flag on their hats, coats, t-shirts, etc.

My Poppy’s (WW2 Vet) favorite hat was stitched with a picture of an American flag

If my Pop were still alive, he would be so sad at what this country has become.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

I think they are talking about a real American Flag made into clothing Like if you cut up a cloth flag and made it into a shirt or a drape.


I don't think that pertains to a picture of Old Glory. Or a silkscreen of it. Or a flag pin. If that is the case, imagine all of those proud veterans that wear the flag on their hats, coats, t-shirts, etc.

My Poppy’s (WW2 Vet) favorite hat was stitched with a picture of an American flag

If my Pop were still alive, he would be so sad at what this country has become.

I agree, that doesn't make any sense, if your not allowed to wear a shirt with a flag on it then why would manufacturers even make them? Doesn't make any sense. And I'm American, proud of it!
I am very thankful and appreciative to your Pop for defending our country in WWII and all of our men and women who are out there today making sure we safe and defending our FREEDOMS

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

You know what Professor....school is out...done....you have made your points, don't "educate" us here now.....p l e a s e .....and FYI lately Congress needs to be reminded about our country & flag....and our citizens...so at this point I am agreeing to disagree with you and moving on

OK, I'll go after I respond below and promise not to educate any more.

As a law professor you know that should and shall are very different. Further, I do not see how this has any relevance to the situation.

Hentob was saying that Americans should be allowed to wear their flag anytime -- nobody should tell them not to. Congress actually said not to. I was simply pointing that out.

I think they are talking about a real American Flag made into clothing Like if you cut up a cloth flag and made it into a shirt or a drape.


I don't think that pertains to a picture of Old Glory. Or a silkscreen of it. Or a flag pin. If that is the case, imagine all of those proud veterans that wear the flag on their hats, coats, t-shirts, etc.

My Poppy’s (WW2 Vet) favorite hat was stitched with a picture of an American flag

If my Pop were still alive, he would be so sad at what this country has become.

I think that there is a genuine debate available as to whether flag clothing is disrespectful to the flag or not. But I also think that many older Americans (WW2 generation) find flag clothing to be distasteful. Then again, many of them probably find t-shirts worn as anything other than underwear to be distasteful, regardless of what is printed on them.

As directed, I will take my thoughts and leave.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I'm going to break my rule about not posting on a thread I haven't read through, and sorry if it's already been said, but I don't think you teach inclusiveness/tolerance through exclusiveness/intolerance.

 

[EMom]

I think that there is a genuine debate available as to whether flag clothing is disrespectful to the flag or not. But I also think that many older Americans (WW2 generation) find flag clothing to be distasteful. Then again, many of them probably find t-shirts worn as anything other than underwear to be distasteful, regardless of what is printed on them.

I'll guarantee you, most older Americans find it much more distasteful to hear that American students were sent home from school for wearing US flag clothing while hundreds of students wearing clothing with Mexican flags (not to mention Mexican flags painted on their faces) were allowed to stay at that same school. I think some of the school administrators are smoking too much of that weed that's coming over the border.

I cannot believe the remarks about how wearing a US flag shirt was an attempt to provoke the Mexican/Mexican-American students while refusing to recognize that there is a BIG chance that's exactly what a lot of the Mexican/Mexican-American kids were trying to do themselves. Over the past several years, I've seen this happen more and more in border states. It didn't used to happen, but it does now. Truly, we used to "all just get along" to a much greater extent. It wasn't Utopia, but the tensions we see now simply did not exist to a large extent 15 years ago. There has been a definite change. More demanding, in your face, we want Mexico within the US and if you don't like it that's tough mentality. Many of the recent immigrants are desperate to leave Mexico (and not always for ecomonic reasons either....many times it's for safety) but they refuse to embrace the US as their new country. They refuse to physically remain in Mexico, but they refuse to emotionally leave it and become part of the US. Simply put, this did not used to be the case with immigrants from Mexico. Sure, they kept their heritage and culture in large part, but they were happy to become Americans too. Not so much any more. Granted, this is a generalization and is not true of ALL recent Mexican immigrants, but it is true in increasing numbers. Hence, the tension between them and the people who were already here.....and that includes lots of longtime Mexican-Americans. And heaven help us, we've been conditioned to be PC, so we just roll over and accept the insults to our culture with a smile and turn the other cheek. Well, no more.

I think it boils down to this: Be you Irish-American, Mexican-American, German-American or whatever-American, at some point.....You need to be more American than Irish, Mexican, German or whatever. Your allegiance and identification need to be with America or you need to rethink your living situation. We are not begging people to come here. They want to. If you are going to take advantage of all that the US offers, then you owe it loyalty. Period. Now I am not talking about race, but nationality. If you are a Mexican-American, living in the US in name only because everything in you is loyal to Mexico, then seriously, why are you here? Why not go "home" and work to make Mexico a place worth living in?

 

[a1tinkfans]

Um this is crazy, the kids should be allowed to wear American Flag tshirts any day of the week. I guess is someone wears an American Flag tshirt on St Patrick's Day I should be offended

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36981179/ns/local_news-san_francisco_bay_area_ca/

Crazy indeed.
Good for those kids to leave school rather than take off their American Flag shirts.
And good for the parents who supported their kids right to Wear them.
And even better to hear that the School District Also thought it was Nuts.
If it were My kid, I'd go out and buy about a dozen more shirts Just like it.
This initial decision makes me Sick!

 

[Sanchez]

Hentob was saying that Americans should be allowed to wear their flag anytime -- nobody should tell them not to. Congress actually said not to. I was simply pointing that out.QUOTE]

No. Congress said that you should not wear the flag. They did not say that you could not wear the flag. Statutory authority is not a reason to tell kids that they cannot wear the flag as doing so is not a violation of federal law.

 

[kaytieeldr]

"Wrong" is an interesting word. I don't think that their actions fall squarely into right or wrong. They didn't do anything illegal. But they did do something foolish in order to provoke others. They were trying to disrupt the school and get a rise out of others. I can't classify those actions as wholly right or wholly wrong. People should get stirred up. Their should be speech. And most importantly, they need to be taught how to channel those thoughts and ideas appropriately.

How so?

There were five students wearing clothing depicting the American flag in some fashion.
Forty percent of the students at this school are of Mexican heritage.
Three of the five red/white/blue-wearing students are among those with Mexican heritage.
The smallest number of students there could possibly be at the school is ten - since you can't have a partial student.
Now, since three part-Mexican students were wearing Old Glory, we know the one remaining Mexican-American student likely wouldn't be the cause of the drama feared by the Assistant Principal. For that, you'd need more irritated-Mexican-American-students-celebrating-Cinco de Mayo than students wearing the American flag. Many more, not just the simple majority of six (requiring a minimum of fifteen students total).
Since we later found that there are at least a hundred Mexican American students at the school, it seems HIGHLY UNLIKELY the five American flag-depiction-wearing students were trying to start anything.

Just thinking things out reasonably. Just as the Mexican-Americans were displaying pride in their heritage, so were the five students displaying the American flag on their clothing.

 

[RangerPooh]

I grew up in the next town over from Morgan Hill (Gilroy) and can understand what the students were doing. Our communities are very simailr in terms of population make-up and issues. When I was in high school back in the mid 90s something similar happened on our high school campus between the hispanic and "white" students. In our school district holiday celebrations had been basically eliminated, except Cinco de Mayo. I remember classmates inquiring about bringing Irish flags for St. Patrick's Day and were turned down, but hispanic students could wear/bring Mexican flags on May 5th, in no way was that fair. By my senior year in 1997 there was tension, and on Cinco de Mayo there were some "white" students sporting irish flags; to only get sent to the office for similar reasons as the kids at Live Oak.

Here is my gripe with the issue; CdM is a Mexican holiday, if the schools are going to allow it to be recognized then they need to recognize other holidays as well. Whether it be Christmas and Halloween parties, St. Patrick's Day, or a random holiday from another country, all should be recognized. Having been raised in that community I have no problem saying that if given the chance I would have probably done somthing similar to what they did. Flame away if you must.... But my issue with this topic was reached back in 2003 while attending San Jose State University (just 20 miles away from Morgan Hill I might add), when the school stopped recognizing President's Day so that they could observe Ceasar Chavez Day. Talk about ***! We did not observe the birthday of our nations 1st president but instead observed a guy for fought for Mexican's rights. It just didn't make sense.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

The Mexican-American students demanded the denial of the American Flag simply by causing fear in the administration that campus unrest would happen if the flag of the United States was worn on a day they were wearing the flag of the Mexican Government. . . . Especially when the flag of the US is forbidden because the administration is scared of the Mexican-American students (their words - feared campus safety) and what might happen if somebody wore patriotic clothing, whether it was one person or a large group.

This is one example of the post that I alluded to when I said that members were assuming that the Mexican-American students were the ones threatening violence.

That statement was written not because of racism, but because it had already been published that Assistant Principal Miguel Rodriguez was worried about the safety of the flag-wearing boys. He felt that because they were a group, they were the easiest target.

If not a faction of the Cinco de Mayo celebrants, and since you seem to have been there to know the motives, of whom were the boys the easiest target? Their other flag wearing friends?

 

[Mickey's Minion]

NOw, lets face it, AMERICANS ON THE BORDER ,AND OUR MEXICAN POLITICIANS, CREATED THIS PROBLEM. Why? I will explain myself: (before starting I want to point out, that this is not a racist form of veiw, neither I am a racist, this are just the facts)

This is a fenomenon that its about the BORDER. Poor people (because of this uneducated) goes to the boarder seeking jobs (our politician havent created enough jobs). They found it on the Border, some stayed mexican side, some crossed the borders to USA. In the mexican side, because their mothers had to work lots of shifts (on the Maquila factorys) ,left kids alone, with some much time in their hands, didnt go to school, they got violent, got into bands, and there is were the narcotics business became alive. (this is well documented that this happened). Now, lets talk about the ones that crossed the borders. They found a job, because they got the jobs that americans didnt want ,mainly in farming. Bad payed, lots of work, then, that people began having kids, the kids became by law, mexican and american two nacionalities. One (the american) been born in the USA, Mexicans, because by mexican law, the person who has mexican parents ,wherever they be, are Mexicans.
Then it started, when they figure out that they have a lot of rights, and everywere they hear that they have to stand by them, fight for them, and because of that, they now, demand them. But since their parents where uneducated, and this is the first generation that goes to school, they havent learn yet, a lot of things, like the American flag in American Territory, is the MOST important flag, and it should be rised above everything. Also, is NOT the same been Conquest, than been Colonized. USA was Colonized, and Mexico by blood, Conquest by the Spanish people, they have heard the story, A traidor called Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna ( 10 times president of Mexico) sold for a laughable price (at that time) of 15 million dollars the states of Arizona, Nuevo Mexico, California, Nevada , Colorado , Plus Texas also wanted their Independance. (Santa Anna must be, if there is a God, burning in Hell). This was a little bit more than a 100 years, not that much time. So in this case ,Mexicans where there before this was USA. Dont forget this kid have doble nacionality. It is a fenomenon in the border, because Mexican that live in the more central areas are , neither agresive or intolerant they are not fighting to be equal, its the new mexican-americans that is having the changes, the Chicanos. (I hope for the better). Only time will tell.

Is this the propaganda the Mexican government hands out?

I suggest you study your history a bit more. I would start with the Mexican-American war and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Sadly as it sounds, that is the way it is. Their are so poor, that they dont care much about anything , just to have something to feed their children. No time for teaching anything. That is why is education so important. SO IMPORTANT. I have a maid. She has 5 children. She is a living in maid. So who is taking care of her children. They are, the big one, takes care of the others. My maid goes on Sundays to visit them. TO VISIT. I couldnt do that, but like her, there are Millions in Mexico. And she is lucky, she has a job. A well paid job ( by the standard). I asked her why she got so many kids, and her repond is that they will work and help them survive!!!
Education....is the key.

So, why is the Mexican government not doing something to provide the proper educational opportunities for these children?

How can you in good conscience, employ their mother as a live-in maid, knowing that there are 5 children living on their own? What are you doing to help these children since you keep their mother in your household?

Or do you think giving the mother a job good enough?

 

[krcit]

The more I am thinking about these kids and their American flag shirts….Honestly, if they wore the shirts out of spite—GOOD FOR THEM!

How dare you come to MY country, and tell ME I can’t wear MY flag on your special little day

What if I don’t care about Cinco de Mayo? And, really. I don’t It was nice that Corona drafts were only a dollar, but other than that, well, I really don’t care.

What if I am a bit angry that you DARE to think that MY flag in MY country should be tucked away for even one minute

It may not be politically correct, it may not sound educated—But I am so sick of this nonsense

So, if those boys _did_ wear the flag out of spite, good for them. Maybe they are tired of being pushed around by people that want to hang the Mexican flag above the USA flag

Don't EVER tell an American that the cannot wear THEIR country's flag.

 

[jme829]

[QUOTE=krcit;36572118][/QUOTE]Originally Posted by hentob


The more I am thinking about these kids and their American flag shirts….Honestly, if they wore the shirts out of spite—GOOD FOR THEM!

How dare you come to MY country, and tell ME I can’t wear MY flag on your special little day

What if I don’t care about Cinco de Mayo? And, really. I don’t It was nice that Corona drafts were only a dollar, but other than that, well, I really don’t care.

What if I am a bit angry that you DARE to think that MY flag in MY country should be tucked away for even one minute

It may not be politically correct, it may not sound educated—But I am so sick of this nonsense

So, if those boys _did_ wear the flag out of spite, good for them. Maybe they are tired of being pushed around by people that want to hang the Mexican flag above the USA flag

Don't EVER tell an American that the cannot wear THEIR country's flag.

 

[VickiVM]

I can be all about La Raza...I live in San Antonio and am hispanic. But big deal they wore shirts with American flags. That is their right (as it is the right of the hispanic students to wear Mexican flags on their shirts if they choose to) and is only an expression. If these boys incited a riot, spoke racial slurs to the hispanic kids, or deliberately singled the hispanics out to physically bully in any way...then yes, by all means remove them out of the school and hand it over to the proper authorities.

The school created the conflict and mishandled the situation.