KIDS/COMPETATIVE EXTRACURRICULARS-help me understand

[barkley]

there are several threads on kids in extracurricular activites and what they cost. while my kids don't participate in much if any i understand that some kids and parents are realy into it. if it's financialy managable for the parents and the kids are enjoying it then i'm understanding of their participation.

what i don't get is the parents/kids who are into the huge financial burdens of the competitive extracurriculars. what i'm thinking of is the cheer stuff, the dance stuff, the martial arts, some of the "elite" sports. i hear of (know some families personaly) that forego retirement planning, college planning, go into debt to finance their kids participation in these activities. i just can't understand the reasoning.

i understand if a child has a tremendous talent in an area where professional training and competition could result in a probable self-sustaining future career, but it seems like most of these activities are such that if any career could be realized it is such a minute possibility that the benefits would never outweigh the costs. i guess what i'm saying is are there that many (as an example) professional cheerleading opportunities that investing in that as a child's career path is reasonable? when it comes down to a professional dance career will the fact that the child has won trophies in some competitions give them an edge over an equally talented dancer who has not? will the finances and hours invested in a gym/rink/on the field give a kid any edge over someone who simply has more "god given talent" in a sport that 1% of the top 1% may even be offered the opportunity to try professionaly?

please help me understand-i am at a genuine loss when i encounter parents who are literaly giving their all to have their kids in these programs. they honestly can't understand how i don't see it as important an investment in their childs future as they do.

 

[ntburns22]

For us we do it to help with DD's self esteem and it is something she really enjoys doing (competitve cheerleading). She will have reconstructive surgery on her face when she is in her teens. We want to start building her up now to help her in the future. $600 is alot of money for a 9 month period but it is so worth it too us.

Added**** We are not breaking the bank doing this. We still put money in 401k and college accounts. We are by no means really well off, but it fits into our budget. Even in the off months we put money aside for cheerleading. We do know there are other ways to form DD's self esteem but we feel the relatationships she forms with her peers now will greatly help her in the future.

 

[SC Minnie]

I don't know anyone that puts the family in financial difficulty just so the child can do an activity.

I think some of those parents try to live through their children and give them opportunities they didn't have and wanted.

 

[Bob Slydell]

I don't know anyone that puts the family in financial difficulty just so the child can do an activity.

I don't either. If an activity was so expensive that it burdened us, our kids wouldn't do it.

 

[BriarfoxinWA]

I was fortunate enough to have a horse when I was in my early teens and did the whole hunter/jumper circuit. I never did the "A" rated shows but still it is extremely expensive. I saw friends parent buy horses for their children in the $25,000 to $50,000 price range - and this was over 20 years ago. I don't know how they could afford it with the normal expenses that go along with owning a horse. The financial commitment is huge, but I saw many parents doing this - they had to be foregoing retirement accts. savings, and etc. I don't know why - it's not like this will be a lifelong career for their child.

 

[brerrabbit]

Having been associated with youth baseball and softball for many many years I can tell you some people do go overboard. On the other hand at a lot of high schools like the ones my kids attend, if you want to make the baseball or basketball team you better have been playing every opportunity you have had. The competition is fierce. Additionally if you daughter is good at softball the money could be well spent as there are a lot of colleges giving scholarships to girls. Our local high school has 23 former softball players on scholarship at the college level. In addition there are around 20 former football players in college on scholarship and they are getting free rides at some pretty good schools. 3 at Northwestern, 1 at Wisconsin, 1 at University of Texas, 1 at Rice, 1 at University of Houston, and one at Oklahoma State.

 

[Amy]

I think we're in the minority - DS14 LOVES ice hockey. When he was younger, he was on the in-house developmental team for a couple of years; cost around $400 for the season (plus pads, skates, etc.) The rink is about a 45 min drive each way. DS is NOT very good; I don't understand hockey that much, but he was the slowest kid on the ice, slow reaction time, etc. He got older, and we were looking at competitive travel; cost over $1,000, plus traveling all over for games, local games that didn't even start until 9:30 p.m. on school nights. DH and I discussed it; it would have been hard, but we could have afforded it. But the investment, not only the money, but our time and running back and forth to the ice rink, and the late nights - to us, it was NOT worth it. So we told him no. (We did NOT tell him that he's not very good at hockey - we just told him that we can't afford it.) DS is not happy about our decisions and keeps asking us if he can join a hockey team, but we continue to tell him that we can't afford it.

Basically, it's a family decision. If mom and dad feel they can afford it, go for it. But like the OP said, I don't understand the families who short-change their retirement or college funds for these activities. There are other ways to build a child's self-esteem that don't cost quite as much.

 

[minmate]

I think somewhere along the line, being busy and having a list of activities has become perceived as having a more elite "social status" of sorts. It goes along with this whole generation's (my generation by the way) of being able to "Have it all." Parents want the best for their kids and many of us have been "brainwashed" to believe that it is our responsibility to provide as many opportunities as possible for our kids. Professional musicians, actors, athletes and other celebrities are given such a high place in our society, it is easier than you may think to become skewed in our thinking, as a parent, that these opportunities are one: our responsibility as a parent to provide, and two: actually possible for our kids. And don't forget about "keeping up with the Joneses can extend to how much "stuff" do your kids do too."

I'm sure that having more opportunity as a youngster may give somewhat of an edge sometimes to some people, but I also know that pushing too hard can burn a kid out at age 10 or 12 too.

If a child is passionate about something and the family can afford it financially and timewise (which I think is a huge issue too -- overextending ourselves and our time) -- then go for it.

A problem I have encountered though with my kids is that they will really love something then, once I've committed the money to it, they have been known to lose interest. Then I have to deal with the issue of "Should we let them quit? Does that teach "quitting" behavior?"

 

[golfgal]

I don't know anyone that puts the family in financial difficulty just so the child can do an activity.

.

I SURE DO! I know one family who's DD was in JO (Junior Olympic) Volleyball, which is HUGE around here. They took out loans against their home for her to participate, well over a couple thousand a year depending on how many tournaments they go to. Their hopes were that she would get a Division 1 scholarship, well, if they had put that money toward college, or even taken out the loan for college, they would have been better off. She was an ok volleyball player, could have been D1 candidate but had no motivation to play hard. She ended up having to take student loans, etc anyway.

I know some people that take their DD all over the country, taking her out of school for a week every month to 6 weeks, to play in golf tournaments. She isn't that good and isn't going to get to be so good that she will make the pros. She MIGHT get courted by some average Division III golf teams but will have a tough time getting accepted because her grades aren't that great. They also have loans out to afford this extra travel, etc. She is about a 10-12 handicap, that isn't going to get her anywhere (I beat her all the time and I am not a pro).

Then there is the family that has 3 boys in hockey, while they could afford to take them to all the camps, etc. their oldest got caught drinking and doing pot on an away high school hockey tournament and got expelled from school so no chance at any kind of scholarships for him.

I had a chart once that showed how many kids start out playing hockey, football, basketball, etc and how many actually make pro, it was pretty telling. It looked something like this:

Pro -
DI college --
DII-DIII college ---
high school varsity ----------
middle school --------------------------
elementary---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[golfgal]

ok, that graphic didn't quite work, but it was supposed to look like a pyramid where the bottom was all the elementary aged kids playing a sport, the top that actually make pros. I guess I see/hear more of this because of the years of varsity coaching I have done.

 

[DisneyTarheel]

i guess what i'm saying is are there that many (as an example) professional cheerleading opportunities that investing in that as a child's career path is reasonable?

Hey, pharmaceutical reps can make big bucks. . .

 

[SC Minnie]

golfgal DH thinks I am nuts for paying $100/month and about $400 on customes for DD to take dance. But she enjoys it and it is the only thing she really 'does' outside of church and school. She wanted to do the competition thing but I talked her out of it-- the time involved was more than I thought we could handled as well as the expense (DD is OK but not THAT good).

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Originally Posted by SC Minnie
I don't know anyone that puts the family in financial difficulty just so the child can do an activity.

I do. My husband coaches our 12 year old son's Competitive baseball team. Our team is beyond cheap compared to most of the teams. We charge $400 per kid plus they have to pay their own travel expenses. We are lucky in that we live in a major metropolitan area and can easily drive to a tournament almost any weekend.

Most of these teams charge $1 to $2,000+ per kid and require that your child be enrolled in some sort of private instruction with the Coaches in the off season. We know of one team in the area ... it is a $250 just to get your kid a slot to TRYOUT. After that, it is thousands of dollars, they have three paid Coaches and the players and families are also expected to pay not only salary but travelling expenses for the three Coaches. They fly to tournaments all over the country. We played them last year and they run ruled our kids 20-0 by the 2nd inning and I don't think they were even trying very hard.

I can't tell you whether or not it will ever payoff for those kids or the families. I just know that frankly --- my kid isn't talented enough to even consider it.

 

[dizagain]

While I agree that some parents are excessive and many do seem to re-live their youths through their kids, not everyone is like that.

My DD's have tried many activities over the years - some they enjoyed, some they didn't. They stuck it out through the term with whatever they tried - no quitting allowed. Now they're 9 and 11 and both love performing in the theatre over all else...they take classes and perform several times a year. Oldest loves to sing and enjoys piano and choir. Youngest is planning to try band in the fall. Both like volleyball and occasionally skip auditioning for a season's theatre production to play on a rec team.

We're not busy every single night, but yes, they have hour-long commitments several times a week. I don't think they're Broadway bound...I think they're having an absolute blast doing something they love with a nice group of kids with the same interests. Sure, they might get to continue this in high school and college - wouldn't hurt them.

Sometimes a parent's reasons are good - and I personally think having at least one activity outside school is important so our kids can try new things!

 

[disykat]

I agree. We try to keep extracurriculars to a minimum because of TIME, not just money. We like having lots of down time as a family.

I saw a show on Dr. Phil where they had a mom forcing her son to to competitive cheerleading and he hated it. She kept insisting it was going to get him college scholarships, but obviously didn't do her homework because Dr. Phil found one college that gave cheerleading scholarships and they were for $2K. She had spent way more that that each year and had a very unhappy husband and child.

Obviously that was an extreme case, but I think many parents underestimate the power of playing in the backyard. I think having some extra curriculars is great, but when you start seeing them as necessities and doing them requires a great deal of sacrificing I think it's time to reevaluate.

 

[pixiemomma]

My sons play ice hockey. It is expensive compared to other sports but it is worth it. They've formed close bonds with their teammates and the parents get to know each other well also. There is a certain comraderie that I haven't found in the other sports they've played.

I don't expect a financial return on my investment. If it gives them of a healthy body, friendship and great memories that is good enough for me.

 

[jim and meesie]

We spend in the range of $12,000./ year for a wide variety of extra curricular activities for our children,at this point it's primarily spent on the younger 2 since the oldest is in college (you don't want to know how much that costs) and his activities are primarily connected to college.

Ours breaks down to roughly $1500. a year for ballet and dance class for our 14 year old daughter (fortunately my daughter never was interested in the cheering thing, some of her friends are, now that's out of control ), $1400 for flute lessons for her also, her orchestra, speech team and sports teams are included in her private school tuition, about $1800 for various town sports teams during the year for our 11 year old son (soccer, indoor soccer, basketball, hockey, fall baseball and spring little league baseball all spread through the year), $800./year for his piano lessons, about $200/year for his school trumpet lessons and band, $1600. a year for his AAU baseball team, $2000 a year for both of their 2 weeks at YMCA summer camp (a virtual bargain), and $700 for their sailing program for the rest of the summer. On top of that we spend about $28,000./ year tuition for our daughter's private prep school and will be sending our son to a private school when he reaches 7th grade.

We did the same (however only one sport a season) for our oldest son and he currently goes to a great college. Why do we do it??? We have no illusions that our daughter will ever dance professionally although she is great and she does love it nor do we feel she will necessarily ever play flute in an orchestra. As for our youngest son, he happens to be that rare kid who loves to play the piano and can't get enough of whatever sport. He will scale back his sports within the next year to one a season. The fact is our kids do things that they love and they work hard to do well at them. I can say that for my son baseball is a true passion and he could go very far with it (we've watched my older son's friends who were good enough to receive Division 1 full college athletic scholarships for football and baseball and our little guy is as good as any of them) but we aren't counting on it, we just love to watch baseball (Red Sox season tickets cost alot more than AAU baseball). My kids are also all exceptional students.

When we were kids (30-40 years ago) there were plenty of natural athletes who would pick up the football in the fall, the basketball in the winter and the baseball in the spring and could be the stars of the team without any special training or camps. This kid probably doesn't even get to play in high school (at least in New England) in this day and age. Our kids are being forced to specialize in one sport year round if they want to still be playing in high school. The natural athlete can't often compete with that kid who plays one sport year round on all sorts of elite teams. My oldest son was a good high school athlete but he never specialized, just played each sport in it's season. He did get athletic & academic honors for his talent but he didn't go to college on his talent. He did however have an advantage getting into college because he was passionate about those sports that he did participate in.

Similarly people may wonder why we spend such a ridiculous amount of money on private schools for our kids when we live in a town that has one of the top rated school districts in the state. In the case of schools we find that our choices of private schools offer significantly smaller class sizes and more advanced placement academics as well as classmates that are similarly motivated to our children (fewer classroom management issues). I was a public school kid and I did just fine and both my husband and I paid our own ways through college just so you know we aren't trust fund kids.

Finally, I have run into the question "why do you spend so much on your kids sports, private school tuition etc?" from friends who spend far more on expensive cars, country club memberships, and even Disney Vacation Club. My response to them is that "my kids are my favorite indulgence", they may not have the financial payback of other expenditures but fortunately they payback in undying gratitude!!! PS who needs retirement planning when these kids will take care of us in our old age ??

 

[brerrabbit]

While I see the same things going on around me (the fact that to make the high school team you have to focus on one sport early on) I don't think that the reason the natural athelete cannot make it at the high school level is due to the select teams and specialization. The reality is simple. Kids today do not play sand lot or pick up games the way we did when we were young. I graduated from high school in 1977. This was prior to video games, cable TV, the internet and the hundreds of other distractions kids face today. During the fall we played sandlot football everyday after school. The only organized sports activities we had available then were Little League baseball in the spring and Youth Football in the fall. After Little League was over we would spend the entire summer plying baseball at the park every day. We honed our skills the old fashion way, by playing. Today kids parents pay professional coaches and trainers thousands of dollars to make little Johnnie a better player. Back then by the time we got to high school we had played more football, basketball and baseball than the kids whose parents pay for it today ever play. We live in an age of quick fixes, lose weight, take a pill, play better baseball, join a select team, better soccer join a club with professional coaches. The reason we feel the need to specialize today is because in reality our kids have to many choices.

 

[binny]

I dont see going into debt for it bt I do understand supporting it if you can afford it and everyone is happy about it.


My girls cheer in a church league which is $60 each for the season and ds plas basketball for the same group and about hte same price. Practices are one hour a week and a game each on Saturday.


Add that to church and caravans and school activities and we are busy 4 nights a week ( with 2 things on Wednesday) , that is plenty thank you! LOL



If the kids are happy and it isnt a hardship on anyone moneywise and timewise, more power to them

 

[jim and meesie]

While I see the same things going on around me (the fact that to make the high school team you have to focus on one sport early on) I don't think that the reason the natural athelete cannot make it at the high school level is due to the select teams and specialization. The reality is simple. Kids today do not play sand lot or pick up games the way we did when we were young. I graduated from high school in 1977. This was prior to video games, cable TV, the internet and the hundreds of other distractions kids face today. During the fall we played sandlot football everyday after school. The only organized sports activities we had available then were Little League baseball in the spring and Youth Football in the fall. After Little League was over we would spend the entire summer plying baseball at the park every day. We honed our skills the old fashion way, by playing. Today kids parents pay professional coaches and trainers thousands of dollars to make little Johnnie a better player. Back then by the time we got to high school we had played more football, basketball and baseball than the kids whose parents pay for it today ever play. We live in an age of quick fixes, lose weight, take a pill, play better baseball, join a select team, better soccer join a club with professional coaches. The reason we feel the need to specialize today is because in reality our kids have to many choices.

If you can believe that my son has free time (he does) and he spends it doing just those things. We had some unbelievable weather on Saturday (60 degrees!!) so after indoor soccer a couple of the kids came over to our house and spent the next couple of hours playing their own game in our backyard. As for Sunday, after his early morning basketball game and CCD my son spent a good part of the rest of the afternoon out shooting baskets in the driveway (then he came in and chilled out by playing the piano for awhile). My son is fortunate that he has a group of friends who would love to play any variety of sports for every waking hour.

If kids love a particular sport, "elite" teams are a way for them to play alot with other kids who love the sport too.

As for when we were kids, my husband learned to play golf in the cemetary next door to his house and he is a darn good golfer with no country club membership (played on his high school and college teams). Unfortunately times are different now!