Kids behavior reflecting on parents - questions

[shalom]

Just curious - at what age are parents not entirely responsible for their kids' actions, morally?

The problem with this question is that there are two possible definitions of "responsible" here. A lot of people hold parents responsible for the fact that their child throws a tantrum, cries, or misbehaves. While it's true under some circumstances the parent contributed to that (knew the child needed a nap but kept going, etc.), ultimately the parent isn't responsible for what the child does. If I'm sitting in the movie theater with my six year old and she's kicking the seat in front of her, I didn't cause that - that action is her choice and in that sense her responsibility.

I'm not responsible for my kids' actions in terms of what they do, but I am responsible for my kids' actions in terms of what I do. If I take a squirmy six year old to the theater and she's kicking the seat ahead of her, then I have a responsibility to make her stop. If she can't or won't stop, then I have a responsibility to either take her out of there entirely, or to move her somewhere where she doesn't have any seats in front of her.

So I'm never entirely responsible for her actions, but I am responsible for doing what I can to minimize the negative impact those actions have on others. Of course, every parent defines "negative impact" differently. I didn't let my kids run around the grocery store, but I've been known to let them loudly sing "Yoda" once through if it distracted the baby from crying.

And at what age do you think it's impossible to stop a girl from being a "mean girl"?

It is extremely difficult for parents to have a lot of control over what's going on at school. That's assuming the parents have a good grasp of what's going on. Plenty of bullies believe they're the one being wronged, and those who know exactly what they are doing are often skilled at manipulating those in authority. My brother had a friend in high school who had just about every authority we knew snowed - parents, teachers, etc. - who wasn't the bully he once was but was still a bully and a jerk (not to us, as a rule). He had the whole "butter wouldn't melt in my mouth" routine down. The few times I had reason to call him on something, or support someone else who was just laying out the facts of the situation, he was, oh, so wounded! And the powers that be generally bought it.

Which is why, I would guess, the parents of the worse bully in school are often completely in the dark about their own kid, and are convinced said child just "keeps getting in with the wrong crowd". When in reality, it's their child who is creating that environment, repeatedly! If a parent accuses their child of being manipulative, often as not it's more a temperament clash than anything - truly manipulative children don't get caught by the authorities that easily!

All of which to say, it depends on the child. I would consider myself, as a parent, responsible for my child's "meanness" long after I would say the parent of a child in public school is responsible. As a homeschooler, I have a much greater influence on my child, so I also have greater responsiblity.

There are a number of studies indicating that the school environment often contributes to or limits the bullying - and many experts argue that the only way bullying can really be controlled is through a school program. I was intrigued to discover that one of the keys to stopping bullying is changing the actions of the witnesses. Judith Herman points out that many abused children, as adults, blame the "silent witnesses" more than they blame the perpetrator - this common tendency is apparently grounded in the reality that the witnesses have the power to stop abuse.

Bullies are often imposing the social standards of the group and trying to set limits on those who're considered the group's members - when the group condemns those who try to force others into conformity through abuse, or switches to a much more inclusive attitude, that can have a great influence on the bullies' behavior.

Parents are definitely a primary influence on how their kids behave or turn out. But there are other influences just as significant, including the temperament the child is born with.