Kids behavior reflecting on parents - questions

[snarlingcoyote]

Okay, so I don't have kids, but I like kids, as they're the ones who will be here when I'm gone. I consider, over all, that small kids are a reflection on their parents. If the parents are kind and insist upon kindness and consideration for others from their kids, I hold those parents in high regard. But now I'm beginning to wonder how much older kids' behavior should be judged as a reflection of the parents.

I've had discussions with some parents recently. A friend's daughter bullied another girl earlier in the school year. This friend reacted in absolute horror and has been doing everything in her power to keep her daughter from being a mean girl as she gets older, and it seems to be working.

Another friend's daughter is being bullied in middle school by the youth pastor's daughter and the principal's daughter. They've said some truly nasty things and made fun of the friend's daughter incessantly for being overweight, poor and super smart and have really made her life miserable for about a year. The youth pastor and the principal have only paid their daughters' behavior lip service and the girls are still being mean girls.

As a result, I've lost all respect for the youth pastor and the principal. If they can't handle their own daughters, why in the world would anyone trust them with other people's kids? I haven't met this youth pastor, but honestly, I hope I don't. I don't know what I'd say to him except for a snide comment about barefoot shoemaker's children. . .

I'm a minister's daughter myself, and when I was growing up, my parents and my fellow PK's parents all endorsed the idea that we were our own people and our actions shouldn't be used as a judgement of our parents, but they all raised us with the lights of their beliefs.

What this mean was that a little wildness was acceptable (My mother used to actually suggest wild clothing choices to me, and I never had a curfew!) Acting cruelly or meanly would not have been, and not because of their public position, but because they'd publically declared their beliefs and they raised their children by their beliefs. (If I'd ever bullied another girl, my parents would've eaten me for breakfast, lunch and dinner; and I've been lucky if I was allowed out of my room for my 30th birthday!) We were never expected to be perfect, but we were expected to be the products of our parents' teaching about the truly important things, like having respect for others and showing empathy for others.

But then people who are parents tell me that at a certain point, kids have be responsible for themselves and that it may not be all chalked up to what parents "allow" or don't allow.

Just curious - at what age are parents not entirely responsible for their kids' actions, morally? And at what age do you think it's impossible to stop a girl from being a "mean girl"? Also, a completely separate question, but what responsibilities should there be for the kids of people whose profession requires them to be community leaders of high ethical/moral/religious standards? (I don't agree with a lot that the Duggars do, but I think they're handling that line very well, actually!)

 

[bumbershoot]

I'm not sure that you can EVER say that a parent is 100% responsible for how a kid behaves.

DS has picked up interesting things from out of thin air, it seems, as DH and I have never taught him some of the things he does. Most of them are positive, by the way. Though I do think that he sees the ways we interact in the world and just copies that, but it's still shocking when you've never taught things and your kidlet is doing them.

But for older kids...I thik that if a kid is brought up with abuse it probably makes it easier for them to be abusive, but I also think that a kid brought up in a totally wonderful environment can go the other way. Friend in high school had great, though strict, parents. She was the one girl with two much older brothers, in an Italian (second generation) and Sicilian immigrant family, so rules were more strict for her, but still, nothing huge. And she acted out horribly! She was allowed to drink wine with the family, and that worked fine for her brothers, but she took it and ran with it, and went far beyond drinking with the family. Would sneak alcohol to school...I visited her from college, and she was snorting drugs in her parents' living room, pretending like it was no big deal. Her brothers were nothing like that, and it's just something that was innate in HER, not something that her parents caused.

Bullies...two girls bullied me to an extent in junior high, and from their FB pages (linked to from "mutual friends") it seems that they are kind, nice, productive members of society today. Then again, I did finally "tell on" the main bully, she was suspended, and she never bothered me again...so maybe I helped put her on the better path.


As for pastor's kids...well, our whole group got the "good" (aka naughty, or what we called "real") jokes from the church groups that other friends went to, and the kids of the leaders were by far the worst...so while I appreciated what went on in their church groups, I sure wouldn't want my son to attend those events! (whereas my mom probably would have laughed at the "real" jokes, if I'd shared them with her...but I didn't because it would have ruined the jokes for me LOL)

 

[golfgal]

I would say that for the most part, teaching your children to be good people IS the responsibility of the parent and MOST of the time kids that are ill-behaved are the result of something lacking in parenting. You also have to keep in mind that not everyone's definition of a good person is the same, thus the problem. I know plenty of people that could care less if their child is nice to other people as long as they are the "best" at whatever parents think they should be the "best" at-usually sports but often other activities as well.

Yesterday was a perfect example of this-DD's golf tournament, she was playing with one girl that was just a total snot to everyone. Usually the girls get along well when they play but their girl kept walking in everyone's line, she would put her golf bag in people's way, would stand in people's backswing, etc. For those that understand the game, the know these are pretty "serious" breaches of golf etiquette. Her dad was there and we attempted to talk to him, making friendly conversation, he was worse than the DD. He was ranting and raving about his DD not playing well (she was playing normal for her so I don't know what that was all about), whining because "our team" plays that course all the time and it isn't fair--um, it is our home course, we are hosting the tournament, that is pretty much how it works for EVERY school . It wasn't hard to figure out where her attitude came from.

Now, there are some kids that their personalities just don't lend themselves to being nice people and while I think they could LEARN to be nicer, that is a lot of work for parents and often the personality wins out-but these are few and far between.

Overall, however, I do agree that a child's behavior is a direct result of how they were parented.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I would say that for the most part, teaching your children to be good people IS the responsibility of the parent and MOST of the time kids that are ill-behaved are the result of something lacking in parenting. You also have to keep in mind that not everyone's definition of a good person is the same, thus the problem. I know plenty of people that could care less if their child is nice to other people as long as they are the "best" at whatever parents think they should be the "best" at-usually sports but often other activities as well.

Yesterday was a perfect example of this-DD's golf tournament, she was playing with one girl that was just a total snot to everyone. Usually the girls get along well when they play but their girl kept walking in everyone's line, she would put her golf bag in people's way, would stand in people's backswing, etc. For those that understand the game, the know these are pretty "serious" breaches of golf etiquette. Her dad was there and we attempted to talk to him, making friendly conversation, he was worse than the DD. He was ranting and raving about his DD not playing well (she was playing normal for her so I don't know what that was all about), whining because "our team" plays that course all the time and it isn't fair--um, it is our home course, we are hosting the tournament, that is pretty much how it works for EVERY school . It wasn't hard to figure out where her attitude came from.

Now, there are some kids that their personalities just don't lend themselves to being nice people and while I think they could LEARN to be nicer, that is a lot of work for parents and often the personality wins out-but these are few and far between.

Overall, however, I do agree that a child's behavior is a direct result of how they were parented.

(I think this discussion can be the proverbial can of worms, but time will tell.)

I tend to agree with the bolded statement, especially with young children. Most times I give the benefit of the doubt. There are exceptions such as special needs that can't be seen and the age of the child. The age of the child is key, I think discipline can be given and the child pulls away, rebels. I wouldn't fault a parent with that. But I hope the parents would try to find something for the child that would work.

So in other words, I think the parent bares responsibility but the child does too, especially as the child ages. There are a lot of variables involved. It isn't black and white. Parenting is hard work. I try to give the benefit of the doubt to parents and kids. When they defy all logic or reason to me, I tend to pause.

But IMO, there comes a time where a child knows better, doesn't respond to discipline and that does not reflect on a parent.

 

[PatsGirl]

I think that by the time a child is in middle school/preteen (or younger) they should know the difference between right and wrong and be respectful and kind to others without having to be directed. Unfortunately, the best parenting in the world doesn't stop a kid from making a bad choice that could ultimately damage their reputations and futures. There are so many forks in life that you have to decide which way to go and when you are a teenager the choice isn't always crystal-clear I guess it's what the parents and the child do after a bad choice is made that really matters.

FWIW, when I see a small child misbehaving I truly believe it is a lack of good parenting 75% of the time. There are instances of course where a disability is not physically apparent and can be the cause of the behavior but usually it is a lack of consistent discipline. At some point in life though kids have to take responsibility for their own actions regardless of how they were parented. Regardless of their home lives, they see what is culturally acceptable on television, by teachers in school, other kids their age, etc. and have to make a choice.

 

[MushyMushy]

I think you can be the best or worst parent in the world, but the child's temperament is going to be the best indicator of how they'll turn out. I have two completely opposite kids that I've raised the same way. One was a holy terror from day one. Always in trouble, always giving me grief, and just plain oppositional to everyone. The other is one of the most well-behaved children I've ever seen. That's not just me talking -- that's the school, other parents, people around us. She's sweet, compliant, and agreeable. I can't take credit for that! As much as I'd love to pat myself on the back, I can't do it. (ETA my son had behavioral disorders that contributed to his behavior, such as ADHD, ODD and bipolar disorder. But that's not readily evident to people from the outside, and have no idea the years of counseling and medication we went through -- all they saw was a kid behaving badly)

All a parent can do is provide love, discipline and values. We were as consistent as we could be with our oldest. While he's not out saving the world with his brilliance, I am so proud of how far he's come. I think my husband and I had a hand in that, but I still can't take the credit. He could just as easily have kept going down the wrong path himself, no matter what we did.

As for the bullying thing, again two opposite kids. My son did some bullying in middle school. Believe me, that did NOT come from US! My husband and I are well educated, peaceful people. But that was something we didn't tolerate. We yanked his butt out of school and put him in cyber school until he could settle down. My daughter has been a victim of bullying since elementary school. She's been picked on for her speech problems and curly hair.

The point of this long-winded diatribe is simply -- I think it's more complicated than yes or no. Yes, bad parenting can result in bad kids, but it can also result in good kids. The reverse is also true. Good parenting can still bring out bad kids no matter what they've done right. That's not something you can make on a snap judgment, and I'd say only someone close to the situation can make that call.

 

[MiniGirl]

Since having kids, I have stopped seeing a chilid's behavior as a reflection of the parents. I have 2 children. They are raised in the same house with the same rules, etc, yet one is very considerate and thoughtful and the other one is not. Now, she isn't a "mean" girl either, but she loves a good time. If a good time can be had at someone else's expense, then it is okay with her. We worked long and hard with her about this and warned her teachers to be on the look out for it as well. As a result, we haven't seen that behavior from her in a couple of years. (She is now 8.) Did her "bullying" reflect on us? I don't think so. I think the way we handled it when it happened reflected more on us than her behavior did. KWIM? I think the fact that we were able to admit that our dd was not perfect and told the teachers to be aware of it was more of a reflection than the few times we caught her teasing someone.

As a result, I've lost all respect for the youth pastor and the principal. If they can't handle their own daughters, why in the world would anyone trust them with other people's kids? I haven't met this youth pastor, but honestly, I hope I don't. I don't know what I'd say to him except for a snide comment about barefoot shoemaker's children. . .

I would not condone anyone trying to blow off their child's behavior, but I don't understand how you can say how the youth pastor is handling things if you've never met and spoke with him. He and his wife may have grounded their daughter or taken things away from her, and it just isn't having the desired results. Is this their only child? How do the other children behave? If the other children are kind, should they be judged for the actions of the one who isn't? I don't know. I'm just asking.

 

[PatsGirl]

All a parent can do is provide love, discipline and values. We were as consistent as we could be with our oldest. While he's not out saving the world with his brilliance, I am so proud of how far he's come. I think my husband and I had a hand in that, but I still can't take the credit. He could just as easily have kept going down the wrong path himself, no matter what we did.

I couldn't agree more. I raised two kids, DS is now 20 and DD just turned 13. Like your kids, they couldn't be more different, yet were raised in the same home with the same rules. DS was born with a chip on his shoulder and has yet to rid himself of it completely. At 16-18 his future was questionable but he seems to be doing well now in the military. In fact he is home now on leave for 28 days before leaving for Japan and we are on day #7 and all is well...

DD was born smiling and everyone loves her. She can do no wrong What I'm finding different with her as a teen is that DS would try to push my buttons and I admit that I am short on patience. DD makes every effort NOT to push my buttons and when I lose my temper she makes every attempt to lighten the situation. Geez, I hope it stays that way.

In the end though both kids are kind and respectful (and always have been) to both me and everyone else they come in contact with so I know all is good.

 

[golfgal]

I couldn't agree more. I raised two kids, DS is now 20 and DD just turned 13. Like your kids, they couldn't be more different, yet were raised in the same home with the same rules. DS was born with a chip on his shoulder and has yet to rid himself of it completely. At 16-18 his future was questionable but he seems to be doing well now in the military. In fact he is home now on leave for 28 days before leaving for Japan and we are on day #7 and all is well...

DD was born smiling and everyone loves her. She can do no wrong What I'm finding different with her as a teen is that DS would try to push my buttons and I admit that I am short on patience. DD makes every effort NOT to push my buttons and when I lose my temper she makes every attempt to lighten the situation. Geez, I hope it stays that way.

In the end though both kids are kind and respectful (and always have been) to both me and everyone else they come in contact with so I know all is good.

That in itself can be part of the cause for kids acting differently-kids don't always respond to the same things. GENERALLY we have the same rules but we do apply them differently as the child needs. DS17 has been very trustworthy, thus, he has a LOT of freedom. So far DS15 and DD15 have been very good too, however, they don't drive yet so we are still pretty much in "control" of their social lives. Time will tell with them. DS17 has has a lot more of his activities tied to getting homework done then the other two because he wasn't as responsible with getting things done. He had to do his homework when he first got home from school, period, no discussion, no exceptions. The other two mostly did theirs when they came home but we also allowed a lot of exceptions because we knew they would get it done later without any issues. Of course we got a lot of "not fairs" from DS17 but sorry Charley, you didn't earn that freedom, they did.

The trick is learning to work with their personalities to get them to behave and if I knew the trick to THAT, I would be richer than Bill Gates .

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, when/if you become a parent, you will be totally and completely AMAZED that each child, from infancy, is a totally complete, unique, and whole individual.

While our children are young, of course, we can teach and discipline and control their behaviors..... But, you can never teach and control and discipline who that individual is inside. You can try till Kingdom Come, but it ain't gonna happen!

In your example, yes, I do believe that these parents of the bully girls should come down, and HARD.... (PS: Based on my personal experiences, it doesn't surprize me, that educators and church leaders could let this slide, condone this, or even instigate it... NO, doesn't surprize me in the least )

This all goes back to Nature-vs-Nurture....
While I don't think anybody can deny that parents and upbringing can have an effect on children.... I completely and totally believe, (since you seem to mention the youth paster, church, etc....) that the good Lord created each and every one of us as complete individuals, very different, but equal.

Did you follow the recent 'morals' thread?
I posted a couple times on there.
Some folks had talked about 'teaching' morals.
Well, I strongly disagree....
A person should inherently know, for example, that it is wrong to steal from another person...
All the 'teaching' in the world can't teach or change that.
Sure, we can 'discipline'....
But, I fully believe that discipline is conditioned response.
In other words, one doesn't learn that this and that is 'morally wrong'.
What one learns is that they may want to refrain from (or hide) certain 'wrong' behaviors to avoid the response/consequenses.

 

[Ceila]

In your example, yes, I do believe that these parents of the bully girls should come down, and HARD.... (PS: Based on my personal experiences, it doesn't surprize me, that educators and church leaders could let this slide, condone this, or even instigate it... NO, doesn't surprize me in the least )
.

How absolutely offensive to all of the wonderful teachers and church leaders out there. I've seen quite a few of your posts, and if you respond to a thread about educators, you almost never fail to disparage them or to claim that you mostly know bad ones. Perhaps the problem isn't the educators at all.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I think that most parents do the best that they can. Some are better at parenting than others, but most really try. IMO, results are as mixed as effort, with no clear ties to effort. I have seen great kids become horrible teenagers. Were they great kids because of their parents and horrible teens in spite of their parents, or vice-versa?

That said, parents have a limited window to influence their children. If they have not already developed the right relationship with their child before their teen years, they have almost no chance of turning that around when they are teens. Parents who work on behavior from a young age have already built the expectation that the child will have to answer for behavioral issues. Parents who only see snowflakes when they are young and are "shocked" to see a bully (or worse) later on in their lives have lost the chance to step in. Try as they might, their children have already learned to listen to other stimuli when judging their own behavior - the parents are all but locked out.

As adults, we see behavior in other children that we simply do not notice in our own. I am not sure why this is true, but it is. It is helpful to keep an open mind as a parent, and to listen very carefully when someone has a criticism of our children.

Parents are responsible for the care of their children. That means something different to everyone on this board. Good behavior or bad - I suspect that the parent has a lot less to do with the outcome than many think. Parents of good kids take credit, and parents of scoundrels shake their head in wonder.

 

[minkydog]

I think you can be the best or worst parent in the world, but the child's temperament is going to be the best indicator of how they'll turn out. I have two completely opposite kids that I've raised the same way. One was a holy terror from day one. Always in trouble, always giving me grief, and just plain oppositional to everyone. The other is one of the most well-behaved children I've ever seen. That's not just me talking -- that's the school, other parents, people around us. She's sweet, compliant, and agreeable. I can't take credit for that! As much as I'd love to pat myself on the back, I can't do it. (ETA my son had behavioral disorders that contributed to his behavior, such as ADHD, ODD and bipolar disorder. But that's not readily evident to people from the outside, and have no idea the years of counseling and medication we went through -- all they saw was a kid behaving badly)

All a parent can do is provide love, discipline and values. We were as consistent as we could be with our oldest. While he's not out saving the world with his brilliance, I am so proud of how far he's come. I think my husband and I had a hand in that, but I still can't take the credit. He could just as easily have kept going down the wrong path himself, no matter what we did.

As for the bullying thing, again two opposite kids. My son did some bullying in middle school. Believe me, that did NOT come from US! My husband and I are well educated, peaceful people. But that was something we didn't tolerate. We yanked his butt out of school and put him in cyber school until he could settle down. My daughter has been a victim of bullying since elementary school. She's been picked on for her speech problems and curly hair.

The point of this long-winded diatribe is simply -- I think it's more complicated than yes or no. Yes, bad parenting can result in bad kids, but it can also result in good kids. The reverse is also true. Good parenting can still bring out bad kids no matter what they've done right. That's not something you can make on a snap judgment, and I'd say only someone close to the situation can make that call.

Thanks for your post. I could have written it myself. My oldest has always been a handful, a real high maintenance kid. If there was going to be trouble, he was going to be in the middle of it. My middle child has been opposite to him in every way. She is calm, well-organized, and gracious.My youngest(Christian) has teh most laid back, pleasant personality of them all. Three kids raised by the same parents in the same house, three different paths.

I do believe that parents have the most influence on their kids when they are young. As the kids approach the age of reason, around 11-12, they begin to experiment with their new ideas and understanding and make their own decisions that are not based on "what dad says." My kids were all very well-behaved through elementary school. My oldest DS became very oppositional and belligerent in HS. He has ADHD & bipolar as well, but refuses to be medicated. I love him to bits,but he has become someone that I probably wouldn't associate with on a friendship basis. My DD, OTOH, is a wonderful girl who loves to teach younger children how to dance, sing , and act. Her goal is to eventually teach special needs kids the beauty of dance. I feel blessed to be in her presence(I know this is over the top, but she really is a nice girl.)

Given the vast differences in my kids, I have to say I don't take complete credit for any of it. I don't think they turn out good because I was a fabulous parent(which I am not) nor do I think turn out bad because I was a terrible parent(which I'm not.) They each have chosen their path and are making their lives unfold.

 

[rie'smom]

As a parent of a 34 yo, 26 yo, and 16 yo, all I can say is you do your best to teach them the manners and how to be decent human beings. The things that have become acceptable through the years of raising our children amaze me. When our 34 yo was in grade school, bullies were shunned, with son #2, they were still looked down upon, by DD's time, they were not only accepted but looked up to by some of the kids.

Parents and teachers have changed too. Many of the parents try to act like their teenagers and will dress, drink and smoke with them. Teachers, instead of setting an example, get involved in the kid's dramas. They want to be popular instead of teaching. I wonder if they were geeks in school and have come back to relive their school years as popular kids.

There are still responsible parents and teachers but I've seen the numbers decrease over the 29 years that I've had children in school.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Ceila,

Hey, the OP ASKED....
The OP is the one who made these statements....

As a result, I've lost all respect for the youth pastor and the principal.
...
Also, a completely separate question, but what responsibilities should there be for the kids of people whose profession requires them to be community leaders of high ethical/moral/religious standards?

I have never, out of the blue, started a thread or made negative remarks about educators/pastors/or anyone else. I have only replied, when appropriate, based on some other OP's thread.

EDITED TO ADD: There are at least two threads concerning education on the front page, right now, (with another that I think is now page two) and I have not even opened any of them, much less even thought about posting any negative comments on them.

But, hey thanks for the personal attack...

PS: If you are so concerned with this issue, l why didn't you address the OP's comments? Why didn't you address her thread?

And, you surely didn't acknowledge the meaningful comments that I had made in this discussion.

I think it is obvious who is coming in with unwarranted negative personal attacks.

PS, THIS SHOULD NOT, IN ANY WAY, HIJACK THIS THREAD...
I FELT COMPELLED TO ANSWER THIS OTHER PERSONS PERSONAL COMMENTS, BUT I HOPE THAT NOW THIS WHOLE THING CAN BE DROPPED.

 

[Ceila]

Ceila,

Hey, the OP ASKED....
The OP is the one who made these statements....



I have never, out of the blue, started a thread or made negative remarks about educators/pastors/or anyone else. I have only replied, when appropriate, based on some other OP's thread.

But, hey thanks for the personal attack...

PS: If you are just SO concerned with this issue, l why didn't you address the OP's comments? Why didn't you address her thread?

And, you surely didn't acknowledge the meaningful comments that I had made in this discussion.

I think it is obvious who is coming in with unwarranted negative personal attacks.

PS, THIS SHOULD NOT, IN ANY WAY, HIJACK THIS THREAD...
I FELT COMPELLED TO ANSWER THIS OTHER PERSONS PERSONAL COMMENTS, BUT I HOPE THAT NOW THIS WHOLE THING CAN BE DROPPED.

The OP referred to ONE specific educator and ONE specific pastor. YOU attacked the MAJORITY of educators and pastors. That as a personal attack against educators and pastors.

 

[OceanAnnie]

As a parent of a 34 yo, 26 yo, and 16 yo, all I can say is you do your best to teach them the manners and how to be decent human beings. The things that have become acceptable through the years of raising our children amaze me. When our 34 yo was in grade school, bullies were shunned, with son #2, they were still looked down upon, by DD's time, they were not only accepted but looked up to by some of the kids.

Parents and teachers have changed too. Many of the parents try to act like their teenagers and will dress, drink and smoke with them. Teachers, instead of setting an example, get involved in the kid's dramas. They want to be popular instead of teaching. I wonder if they were geeks in school and have come back to relive their school years as popular kids.

There are still responsible parents and teachers but I've seen the numbers decrease over the 29 years that I've had children in school.

I think you raise some really good points. Times have changed a lot and it does have an influence on what is acceptable. Adult behaviors have changed, "Cougar Town" is a prime example. Big changes in attitude, expectations. How we view behaviors, such as what is acceptable and what is not. In a lot of regards things have gone lax. It does factor in to the equation. How much, is anyone's guess. But it is there.

 

[RadioNate]

I think you can be the best or worst parent in the world, but the child's temperament is going to be the best indicator of how they'll turn out. I have two completely opposite kids that I've raised the same way. One was a holy terror from day one. Always in trouble, always giving me grief, and just plain oppositional to everyone. The other is one of the most well-behaved children I've ever seen. That's not just me talking -- that's the school, other parents, people around us. She's sweet, compliant, and agreeable. I can't take credit for that! As much as I'd love to pat myself on the back, I can't do it. (ETA my son had behavioral disorders that contributed to his behavior, such as ADHD, ODD and bipolar disorder. But that's not readily evident to people from the outside, and have no idea the years of counseling and medication we went through -- all they saw was a kid behaving badly)

All a parent can do is provide love, discipline and values. We were as consistent as we could be with our oldest. While he's not out saving the world with his brilliance, I am so proud of how far he's come. I think my husband and I had a hand in that, but I still can't take the credit. He could just as easily have kept going down the wrong path himself, no matter what we did.

As for the bullying thing, again two opposite kids. My son did some bullying in middle school. Believe me, that did NOT come from US! My husband and I are well educated, peaceful people. But that was something we didn't tolerate. We yanked his butt out of school and put him in cyber school until he could settle down. My daughter has been a victim of bullying since elementary school. She's been picked on for her speech problems and curly hair.

The point of this long-winded diatribe is simply -- I think it's more complicated than yes or no. Yes, bad parenting can result in bad kids, but it can also result in good kids. The reverse is also true. Good parenting can still bring out bad kids no matter what they've done right. That's not something you can make on a snap judgment, and I'd say only someone close to the situation can make that call.

I too could have written this post.

My 1st child would never be called "agreeable" by anyone. He is generally just put out by the world. He argues for the sake of arguing. If he tells you his idea and you say 'that's a great idea, let's do that" he'll start telling you how that is "boring" and doesn't want to do it.

He is constantly in trouble. The poor kid loses stuff daily and sits in his room for hours. EVERY night, at bedtime, he stomps up the stairs as loud as possible complaining that he 'doesn't want to go to bed.' EVERY SINGLE NIGHT!

He never says please, thank you, may I or you're welcome despite being reminded to and disciplined for being 'rude.'

My daughter on the other hand will do anything you ask w/out argument. He response to just about everything is "OK." She is always cheerful and agreeable.

She is polite to a fault. Last week we were at Gymboree and another little girl was sitting in the green chair and DD wanted the green one. She walked up to her and said "excuse me" the little girl didn't understand that my DD wanted her to move to another chair. My DS would have screamed MOVE at the kid and pushed him out of the chair! The little girl of course didn't move and I told my DD "why don't you sit in the blue chair." Her response "ok." No tears, no whining. My DS, would have been laying on the floor hysterical screaming his head off. He was that kid.

I can't explain the differences. I haven't done much differently. I'm sure people see my DS's behavior sometimes and think I'm a horrible parent. But we try.

On the flip side, only seeing DD, people would think we were great parents.

 

[krcit]

While I don't think a parent can change a child inherent personality, I do think we are responsible for their behaviors or really, our reactions to it.I am amazed at some of the lazy parenting I see among my high school age dd's friends. The disrespectful way that some of these kids speak to their parents and get away with it blows my mind. I cannot control what my kids do to a certain extent but I can control the consequences of bad behaviour. Hopefully that will help them to make better choices. I also think that a lot of the times, the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. I can name more than one example of a parent being called on their child's behavior on the parent cursing out the principal or other parent.

 

[MushyMushy]

The OP referred to ONE specific educator and ONE specific pastor. YOU attacked the MAJORITY of educators and pastors. That as a personal attack against educators and pastors.

Her experience with the school system pretty much warrants her feelings. I think more people than not who have kids in a special ed program get shafted again and again and are constantly in a battle to make sure their kids get the services to which they are entitled. It's not easy to come out of experiences like that with a rosy view towards educators. And to be fair, I've seen Wishing give credit where it's due as well.

There aren't too awfully many educators who can really relate to kids with behavior disorders. The few out there are gems.

(sorry, I know Wishing asked for a no hijack, but just wanted to have a say)