Kidney ultrasound for DS 9 ?

[Minnie M6]

I took my 9 year old son to the pediatrician yesterday because I have been concerned about his constant thirst, frequent urination, and constant hunger. I asked to speak to the doctor outside of my son's presence so that I could discuss his symptoms without embarrassing him ( he still has bedwetting issues-never stays dry at night). He drinks huge glasses of water, and makes very frequent trips to the bathroom. During a 2 hour movie he will make 3 trips to the bathroom. I just wanted to have his blood sugar checked to rule out blood sugar issues. They did a urine screen, which was normal according to the doctor, but he prescribed a full HbAIc panel and a kidney ultrasound. I was expecting that they would check his blood sugar with a finger stick and then decide whether further testing was necessary.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone else has been through this and has ideas/ advice. The doctor did say he can prescribe medication if the ultrasound rules out any serious problem, but I have heard that prescribing meds for bedwetting is not an ideal option. He said it is very commom for older kids to have problems with bedwetting but it can impact their social lives. DS's best friends know that he wets the bed since he has been to sleepovers and just decided to tell them about it. We are going to WDW in December with my mother, who is aware that he wets the bed, but I'm worried about the bed sharing arrangements. Of course, I'm less concerned about the bedwetting than I am about what is causing his symptoms.

 

[MyDizneyBoyz]

I think the full panel is a good idea as well as the kidney u/s. My middle DS has a pelvic kidney which happened to be discovered while I was pg so he goes to a pediatric urologist for ultrasounds every 6 mos. to monitor it. An u/s is a great, painless way to see what's going on inside. It will show if the kidney(s) have any physical issues which may be contributing to the problem.

My feeling is if they're going to take blood, they might as well do it once and check for everything - the fewer needles, the better!

Our situation isn't really the same as yours, but I wanted to put your mind at ease that the u/s really is a good idea (and at his age your DS may think the pictures are way-cool!) and to wish you luck with a diagnosis.

 

[justhat]

My daughter has vesicouretal reflux which was diagnosed in part through a kidney ultrasound. The kidney ultrasound is primarily used to detect damage/dysfunction of the kidneys. In my daughter's case it wouldn't have told us what was going on, bu it would have showed if she had any damage/scarring in her kidneys.

She had 1 diagnosed UTI when she was 3.5yo and the ped sent her for a kidney ultrasound and a VCUG, which is where they insert a catheter into the bladder, inject a dye, then take x-rays of her bladder/kidneys as she urinates. The reflux was so visible that I could even tell from the xrays.

She is also a bedwetter that I fully believe is part of the reflux. Sure she's 4.5yo and many kids her age wet the bed, but she can go hours without drinkikng before bed, pee right before she goes to bed, have me take her overnight, and still wake up with a wet pullup.

The problem is that the reflux causes urine to flow backward from her bladder to her kidneys. So everytime she pees soe urine flows backward, only to return to her bladder, so it's never truly empty.

If your son isnt having blood sugar issues, it might be something like this.

 

[Princess_Michelle]

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[KadysMom]

My DD6 went for her ultrasound two weeks ago because she gets several UTI's. She goes nov 11th to the urologist to see if she has reflux. We could see 17cc's of urine come back in so she is never empty either. For the test with the dye. How bad was it? I want to know what to expect so i am not a nervous mess

 

[justhat]

My DD6 went for her ultrasound two weeks ago because she gets several UTI's. She goes nov 11th to the urologist to see if she has reflux. We could see 17cc's of urine come back in so she is never empty either. For the test with the dye. How bad was it? I want to know what to expect so i am not a nervous mess

I hate to tell you this, but it was terrible. They strapped my daughter down to a little board that is suspended between 2 rings. (This was on a table, she wasn't like free-floating.) The little board can sway from side to side so they rotated her so they could xray one side, then the other. She hated that part as she was pretty much sideways and felt like she was falling.

And injecting the catheter was no picnic either. She was screaming hysterically. First they put the cath in to empty the bladder, then after that they inject the dye. When my son had it done (only cause his sister has reflux and it's very hereditary) his urine was cloudy, so before they could do the test they had to test his urine for a UTI. So the cath had to stay in for about 30 minutes while they ran a culture. They let him off the board though to walk around. (BTW, he didn't have the reflux.)

It was not only torturous for her, but me as well having to hold her down there. The one thing to remind your daughter is that the sooner she pees, the sooner it's all over. My daughter was uncomfortable with the fully bladder but kept holding it in cause she didn't want to pee in a pan on the table.

If you have any other questions, please ask me. I knew no one who had this when I went through it and it was scary. My daughter was on prophalactic Bactrim for about 6 months after her diagnosis, but we took her off in March and she's been okay. Her reflux was a grade 2 on one side and grade 3 in the other kidney. 4sand 5s get mandatory medicine, but with 1-3s they are sort of making it optional for older kids. The idea is that my daughter can tell us if she has any pain so we can diagnosis and treat any utis quickly.

Also, not sure if you are aware, but most kids outgrow it. Those who don't usually get surgery to correct the problem. That's something that still freaks me out when I think about it.

 

[PrincessAbby'sMom]

My daughter has also had many problems.
8mo old she had a UTI
They did the dye test & yes its not pretty. I had do hold her down screaming for atleast 45min., yes at 9mo old!
She then wouldn't urinate when she got older, it hurt too much. No UTI, but another problem - her urin would go into her female parts, burn & cause infection, etc. And constipation
She had just last year at age 7 was diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome & yes at age 8 she still wets the bed as well. They say it has alot to do with all the bladder, urinary problems that she has had so young. She wears a pull up to bed every night. I can't wake up that often to change sheets.
I would suggest Good Nights, Pull Ups, or even the new Under Jams for your trip, just in case.
The ultrasound will be a piece of cake. But prepare yourself for the dye test, seriously!

 

[bumbershoot]

You haven't gotten the A1C results back yet? That will give good info, if it's a blood sugar problem, even if he wasn't spilling sugar into his urine. I swear I don't know why that isn't run on just about everyone, it's such an informative test!

Along with that, did the doc have bloodwork done to check the kidney function? My hubby went in with very similar issues- not bed-wetting but having serious problems getting to the bathroom on time- and they didn't do an ultrasound, but checked something in the blood to see if there were kidney problems. And hubby has actually had kidney failure, after eating nothing but meat for a month after a severe macrobiotic diet to heal a serious health problem. All that protein caused his kidneys to shut down. So even with failure in the past, they didn't do an ultrasound! Felt the bloodwork was sufficient to put him on drugs (which he isn't taking b/c of the side effects and the fact that diet and exercise have made his blood sugar just about normal and getting better all the time).

Wanted to let you know that now that hubby is eating better and exercising (by the way, hubby spilled sugar into urine and had a finger-stick result of 443 blood glucose at his appt when he was diagnosed with diabetes, he was very dramatic), and his urgent bathroom needs have VANISHED. So it might very well be related.

 

[Janet Hill]

I think I would ask for a sedative if my child had to go through this.

 

[Minnie M6]

Thanks so much to all who replied. I never could have imagined when I joined the DISboards that I would have access to such a wealth of information and helpful friendly people.

The ultrasound and bloodwork are scheduled for Monday morning. I was told we should get results that afternoon. We could have had the procedures tomorrow, but DS is recovering from bronchitis/ asthma flare up and I want to wait until he feels somewhat better.

Bumbleshoot, I would love to hear more specifics about how your DH is managing so well with diet and exercise- that is fantastic! I take Metformin for high blood sugar/ PCOS. I try to walk 5 times per week and have kept my weight down until recently- I have gained around 15 pounds Is he on a special plan or just eating healthy? My problem is I know what I need to do, but I'm not good about follow through.

 

[KadysMom]

I am scared for my daughter now. Here is her issue

She gets frequent UTI's. 5 or so a year. She has had 2 since the second week of September. She has started wetting her pants during the day. She doesnt even feel herself going. This is a new symptom. It started with the UTI in september. My issue is that she gets better on the antibiotic, but she never actually tests positive for the UTI and when the send for a culture it never grows.

She went for an ultrasound and her bladder had 350 cc's of urine in it. After using the bathroom they could see 17 cc's still in there. Since it was an ultrasound they couldnt see the urine go back in. That is why we are going for the dye test at the urologists office on Nov. 11th.

I dont know how she is going to do getting another cathater and going through all that. I am so sad and scared for her. Can they sedate her?

 

[MyDizneyBoyz]

Kadysmom - Call the place that's doing the procedure and talk to them. Is it at a general radiology place or a specialized pediatrics place? Ask them what your options are and what exactly to expect based on the age of your child. If she's old enough, they may let her go through the procedure with just verbal reassurances and you holding her arms/hands as opposed to restraints.

With one DS having a kidney issue and another having a mild cardiac issue, we've had our fair share of unpleasant procedures and I know for a fact that the bedside manner of the people performing the procedure will play a big part in how it's perceived by your DD. We had a barium swallow gastric reflux test done at a local large hospital and the mentality was to get the patient in and out as soon as possible with minimal regard to their comfort level. I know it's important to get things done in a timely fashion but a calm voice, a smile, some distractions and caring, reassuring words go a lot farther than manhandling. I was glad I was there to provide that to my son as the techs were all tight-lipped, cold and very brusque. I felt bad for the children that had to have these procedures without a parent present (kids that had been admitted for other reasons didn't have their parents there for the test) or even some basic reassurance as I could only imagine how scared they'd be. Brought out the mamabear in me in a big way, which is why I'm rambling on about it now...

Anyway, this is a good time to make some phone calls, get some information, and be an advocate for your child's health and comfort. The VCUG test (the dye test) CAN be done under mild sedation (nitrous oxide or oral midazolam), you just have to find a place that will do it as it's not common. Some larger facilities have an anesthesiologist on staff or you may be able to have it done in a hospital setting. But you need to ask around.

 

[KadysMom]

I will call on Monday to find out what they are going to do and how we can keep her comfortable. I am going to an urologists office at CT Childrens Hospital. She has gone there for her endocronologist, cardiologist, and nutritionist. They were all great, so I hope this office is good. I am definately good at advocating for my daughter. I have been blessed because her school is great and offers services to help her. THanks for all the information!

 

[sisaaliyah]

My DS3 was diagnosed in February this year with Bilateral Renal Dysplasia or Multicystic Dysplastic Kidney Disease. When he was 15 mo. I approached his pediatrician about testing for diabetes because he always wanted to drink. I mean drink from anywhere too the dog's bowl, the toilet, in the bathtub whereever he could get water. Plus my dad is diabetic, but wasn't until later in life. DS blood work came back with a high BUN (blood urea nitrogen). He had his blood work checked several times between Thanksgiving and Christmas 2006. BUN always high. Noone could tell us what that meant. The pediatrician suggested he see an endocrinologist. That ended up getting us nowhere. Also, he's small for his age...always wants to drink won't eat. So were trying to limit his fluid intake to make him eat food instead of filling up with liquids. We stop seeing the endocrinologist since were not accomplishing anything. His weight is not even on the charts now and the pediatrician suggests we see a gastroenterologist. We see the gastroenterologist in February 2008 and he is shocked that we're not seeing a nephrologist. He looks at all this blood work that's been done and says he has a problem with his kidneys. They schedule us an appointment for April with the kidney doctor and a couple days later call and say I need to bring him down the next morning through ER to have him admitted to see the kidney doctor. We were extremely upset we didn't know what's going on. The Dr. won't speak to the parent until the child is seen. It's all of a sudden a big emergency now though after this has been going on for 15 mo. He was in the hospital February 21-23. They did an ultrasound of his kidneys and found that they are both small and have cysts on them. Then they did a test with dye to see how well his kidneys function. They also did the VCUG test with dye to check for reflux. As everyone else has stated yes, this test is TERRIBLE. He doesn't have the reflux, but his kidneys are small and they will always be small and unable to keep up with his body as he grows. It turns out he needs the fluids, but with him it's a catch 22 because he also needs to eat. During all this time when we didn't know what was going on, we had him drinking pediasure every night with dinner for the nutrients/vitamins he needs. He also now has to drink suplena every day, which is like pediasure but more calories. It's for people with reduced kidney function. You can live with one kidney, but both of my DS' kidneys are bad. Maybe he'll need a transplant later in life. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. Sorry if I went on and on, but I was trying to best summarize my experience. I hope you have a much better journey and outcome. I also don't know anyone that has had this before or knows someone who has it. If anyone reads this and knows someone I would be interested to hear of their experience. Thank you.

 

[justhat]

We had both my kids done at Children's National Medical Center. They wouldn't do any sedation. My husband is an anesthesiologist and though it was painful for them (and us!) to endure, he didn't want them sedated either any more than radiology did. It might be possible to do it without restraints, but with my kids the restraints were to rotate them from side to side to see both kidneys. Not sure how else that would be accomplished. Yes they could have the kid turn, but it sort of needs to be done at a specific time and if the kid is uncomfortable/crying not sure they'd move when they should.

The radiologists were all very nice and my kids got to pick out a toy at the end of the procedure and as soon as they were done the tears stopped. So while it was bad during the procedure, it wasn't incredibly bad afterwards. My daughter went back to preschool that day when it was finished.

Honestly, I would prepare your child, but don't talk about it too much or too far in advance cause I think that will really add more fear than necessary.

 

[princessmom29]

You haven't gotten the A1C results back yet? That will give good info, if it's a blood sugar problem, even if he wasn't spilling sugar into his urine. I swear I don't know why that isn't run on just about everyone, it's such an informative test!

Along with that, did the doc have bloodwork done to check the kidney function? My hubby went in with very similar issues- not bed-wetting but having serious problems getting to the bathroom on time- and they didn't do an ultrasound, but checked something in the blood to see if there were kidney problems. And hubby has actually had kidney failure, after eating nothing but meat for a month after a severe macrobiotic diet to heal a serious health problem. All that protein caused his kidneys to shut down. So even with failure in the past, they didn't do an ultrasound! Felt the bloodwork was sufficient to put him on drugs (which he isn't taking b/c of the side effects and the fact that diet and exercise have made his blood sugar just about normal and getting better all the time).

Wanted to let you know that now that hubby is eating better and exercising (by the way, hubby spilled sugar into urine and had a finger-stick result of 443 blood glucose at his appt when he was diagnosed with diabetes, he was very dramatic), and his urgent bathroom needs have VANISHED. So it might very well be related.

that is sooooo dangerous. I would be interested to know who told him that eating macrobiotic would cure any health problem. I just can't see how it could "cure" anything. It might help manage some diet related conditions, but it is not going to cure cancer or anything like that. It also leans to issues like your DH had when you come off the diet. Unless is is a lifestyle choice for you and you are not going back it can cause serious problems, and is not a medical teatment for anything other than something like high colestrol that is directly tied to diet. If you are using it for that you should not be coming off of it.

I am scared for my daughter now. Here is her issue

She gets frequent UTI's. 5 or so a year. She has had 2 since the second week of September. She has started wetting her pants during the day. She doesnt even feel herself going. This is a new symptom. It started with the UTI in september. My issue is that she gets better on the antibiotic, but she never actually tests positive for the UTI and when the send for a culture it never grows.

She went for an ultrasound and her bladder had 350 cc's of urine in it. After using the bathroom they could see 17 cc's still in there. Since it was an ultrasound they couldnt see the urine go back in. That is why we are going for the dye test at the urologists office on Nov. 11th.

I dont know how she is going to do getting another cathater and going through all that. I am so sad and scared for her. Can they sedate her?

These symptoms are very similar to what a lady on another board I am part of is going through with her daughter, and she has not gotten any answers yet either. SO sorry!

 

[LIBLULA]

My DD8 had an ultrasound and VCUG when she was 3 years old. She had it done at St. Louis Children's Hospital. They were great. They gave her some medicine to relax her (it did not sedate her). She got to watch cartoons during the procedure. She had been on antibiotics for 1 year prior to the ultrasound and VCUG. Her urologist wanted to keep her on them for 2 years. I got a second opinion. The second urologist did the ultrasound/VCUG. We found out, she had a large bladder and was holding her urine, and that's why she had a UTI at the age of 2 (she didn't have a reflux problem!). She was on antibiotics for over a year and didn't need them!! She has never had another UTI again. I still have to remind her to go to the bathroom, because she can hold it along time!!!

 

[asktriplets]

I am scared for my daughter now. Here is her issue

She gets frequent UTI's. 5 or so a year. She has had 2 since the second week of September. She has started wetting her pants during the day. She doesnt even feel herself going. This is a new symptom. It started with the UTI in september. My issue is that she gets better on the antibiotic, but she never actually tests positive for the UTI and when the send for a culture it never grows.

She went for an ultrasound and her bladder had 350 cc's of urine in it. After using the bathroom they could see 17 cc's still in there. Since it was an ultrasound they couldnt see the urine go back in. That is why we are going for the dye test at the urologists office on Nov. 11th.

I dont know how she is going to do getting another cathater and going through all that. I am so sad and scared for her. Can they sedate her?

both of my DDs were diagnosed with kidney reflux this past year at the age of 5 1/2. our VCUGs were a piece of cake because they were mildly sedated (with versed) i will say that my 2nd DD didn't "like" the catheter and balked at peeing on the table, but it was still absolutely painless. the sedation only lasted about an hour, they were completely awake, and there was absolutely no trauma during the procedure and they don't remember the procedure. what would the reason be to NOT use something with an older child? ..this question isn't directed at you, kadymom, it's more of a rhetorical ?
we have a number of excellent hospitals around us, and I would honestly consider going to a different hospital if my first choice didn't offer sedation...

edited to add: kadysmom, is your DD seeing a urologist? what does he say about the remiaing urine? i am surprised at how much of all of that stuff south of the belly is interrelated (constipation, urgency, leaking, reflux)...any other voiding issues with your DD?

edited ONE more time to add: i waited months to do it, but we finally put 1 of my DDs on detrol for her leaking/urgency issues. her bladder was spasming and she couldn't control the leaks. she was on it for 2 months and we just took her off of it last week as she had a few dizzy spells (a common side effect) and it freaked her out a bit. it APPEARS as though that 2 months gave the bladder a chance to get back under control...no leaking! no freaking out with an instantaneous, "I HAVE TO PEE" panicked cry! hooray! not sure if this info. might be helpful, but talk to the urologist about bladder spasms.


good luck, and take care,

 

[melafive]

My daughters kidney problem was diagnosed while I was still pregnant. She had hydronephrosis. She was born with two ureters on her left kidney one that emptied the top half of her kidney and one that emptied the bottom. Well the one that emptied the top had a blockage so urine was never completely emptied from her kidney. She was prone to infections and was on antibiotics for the first year of her life. Even with the antibiotics she had two infections so shortly after she turned one she had surgery. That was scary. She had her surgery (also VCUG, and most ultrasounds) at Devos Childrens Hospital in Grand Rapids Mi. Her doctor when going in intended to remove half her kidney but was able to reroute things and saved most of it. I have great respect for her urologist and the anesthesiologists that operated on her. My daughter is four now and doing great.

For the op, the ultrasounds are a piece of cake. When my daughter gets them done, midway they may ask her to use the bathroom and they ultrasound her lower belly area and her lower back area. It is much like a pregnancy ultrasound without the super full bladder!

As for the girl who needs a VCUG, my daughter had one when she was an infant. I don't really remember it in great detail, but I do know it was hard. She did cry and it took quite a while but she was squirmy and did not understand the ordeal. She was not sedated either. Honestly if I was you I would just tell her that it is not going to be a comfortable procedure but she needs it done to find out what is going on with her. If you look and act scared she may just feed off that. I guess I would be honest without freaking her out.

 

[bumbershoot]

that is sooooo dangerous. I would be interested to know who told him that eating macrobiotic would cure any health problem. I just can't see how it could "cure" anything. It might help manage some diet related conditions, but it is not going to cure cancer or anything like that.

Actually, it DID heal his cancer.

He was diagnosed at University of Washington medical center with a benign but fast-growing brain tumor. The diagnosing team gave him a prognosis of 6 months due to the extremely fast growth. They wanted him on a protocol of radiation, b/c surgery wasn't possible at that time.

He looked into the side effects of the radiation on that part of his brain, and decided that death would be better than all of what could happen.

He started searching for information, and found a book written by a well known doctor in the traditional field of healing yourself. Turned out that that doctor was in the Seattle area at that time.

When he told the UW docs that he would not be going with their protocol, they threatened him with putting him into protective custody, b/c a few years before he had sought help with depression. They figured he was trying to kill himself (what a way to go! ouch!). He had to put an attorney on retainer to hold them off.

Since oncologist have an interesting "hold" on what other people can treat, no one could "treat" him for the tumor. He paid, out of pocket, for supplements, enzymes, and hyperbaric chamber treatments. He went on a macrobiotic diet that did NOT include fish (as macro normally does) because the point was to DEtox, not put all the toxins from the ocean into his system.

The entire time he was having followup MRIs (paid out of pocket b/c his job didn't have insurance) at Harborview Medical Center (big reputable hospital).

Within 6 months (his "death time" according to the UW team) his tumor was shrinking. Inside a year it was GONE.

His 7 year followup MRI was done after we met and were engaged and all was clear and perfect.

Hubby is unique b/c he continued with the MRIs all the way through. There was no falling out of care where the diagnosing docs could say "oh well maybe you didn't have it after all". He was there the whole time, and the MRIs show the progressing of healing.


When you have had that experience and you talk about it, you meet MORE people who have had that experience. When you meet Naturopaths (who are not allowed to "treat cancer" in WA state) and tell them your past, they quietly tell you of many many more cases of healing like this. There are FAR MORE people out there who have healed their cancers with macrobiotics etc than obviously you can even imagine.