Kenneth Lay died of a heart attack

TheDoctor said:
Here is something that I saw yesterday on this issue. I have not read the cases cited and think that collateral estoppel is not relevant to this issue.
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/whitecollarcrime_blog/2006/07/ken_lay_dies_of.html
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Under the Fifth Circuit's law of abatement of a criminal conviction when a defendant dies before appellate review of the conviction, "It is well established in this circuit that the death of a criminal defendant pending an appeal of his or her case abates, ab initio, the entire criminal proceeding." United States v. Asset, 990 F.2d 208 (5th Cir. 1993). In a recent Fifth Circuit decision, United States v. Estate of Parsons, 367 F.3d 409 (5th Cir. 2004), the court explained that "the appeal does not just disappear, and the case is not merely dismissed. Instead, everything associated with the case is extinguished, leaving the defendant as if he had never been indicted or convicted." In Parsons, the court vacated a forfeiture order, which means that the government's forfeiture claim against Lay for $43.5 million (see earlier post here) will be dismissed. The Fifth Circuit explained the rationale for the rule: "The finality principle reasons that the state should not label one as guilty until he has exhausted his opportunity to appeal. The punishment principle asserts that the state should not punish a dead person or his estate." An interesting question is whether one can still describe Lay as having been convicted of a crime, at least in a technical sense, because the law no longer recognizes there having been any criminal case initiated against him.

Unlike the criminal case, civil claims against Lay, such as the SEC's case and the securities class action, will continue against his estate. However, because the criminal conviction is wiped out, the plaintiffs cannot rely on it as proof in their case, if my dim memory of collateral estoppel serves me right.(ph)

That's what I was reading and remember seeing the collateral estoppel. I find this all intersting personaly since I vaguely remember learning about it some time ago. Thanks for all of your inputs and look forward to more of your view.

Rex
 
NCRedding said:
That isn't what I recall from criminal procedure in law school. Death of a defendant prior to trial or judgment results in a dismissal of the underlying criminal charges. But, it is my recollection that the appeal can still be heard. If the court rules against Lay, then the conviction stands. If a new trial is ordered, then the charges would be dismissed.


Not according to the Fifth Circuit Court. See above. An interesting article linked below shows that they will be able to use testimony and evidence in the SEC case but they suggest that they will settle with Linda Lay and that she will be able to keep a large portion of the estate.

"How Ken Lay Cheated Justice"

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Forbes/HowKenLayCheatedJustice.aspx

That means that, in legal terms at least, Lay was never convicted, tried or even indicted for Enron misdeeds.

For Lay's estate, and his widow Linda, the positive implication of this grim day is that the government now has no means to collect on its forfeiture claim against Lay for $43.5 million.

It's hard to believe, but the case law on this point is crystal clear, says Peter Henning, professor at Wayne State University Law School. "The idea is that you can't punish a dead person. It's not fair," says Henning. "Lay didn't get a chance to go in front of a court of appeals, which he had an absolute legal right to do.

"The prosecutors are not going to be able to fight this one," says Henning, who adds that the basic tenet behind the Parsons decision goes back to a 1971 Supreme Court case".



Rex
 
After reading some of the responses, I realize that I shouldn't be gloating or happy that a man like Lay, died. I don't consider myself a religious man and I know my feelings for Ken Lay and other crooks like him won't set well for those who are. I can't help it though, I think Lay and the others involved in the Enron collapse are scum. Same with the World Com and Tyco scandals and the masterminds behind them. How anyone of these guys can sleep at night is beyond me?

I really do think that Lay and Skilling are tratiors to America for the shockwaves Enron sent through the stockmarket and the American economy. It really hurt the economy and it's fall out was felt for quite along time. Then factor in the poor Enron employee's who were screwed beyond belief and it's hard for me to feel bad for Lay. I hope that there is a hell and he's in it, serving hard time. It may sound harsh but it's the way I feel. I still can't grasp the idea of Lay thinking he was a victim and innocent in all of this.
 
rparmfamily said:
Not according to the Fifth Circuit Court. See above. An interesting article linked below shows that they will be able to use testimony and evidence in the SEC case but they suggest that they will settle with Linda Lay and that she will be able to keep a large portion of the estate.

"How Ken Lay Cheated Justice"

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Forbes/HowKenLayCheatedJustice.aspx

That means that, in legal terms at least, Lay was never convicted, tried or even indicted for Enron misdeeds.

For Lay's estate, and his widow Linda, the positive implication of this grim day is that the government now has no means to collect on its forfeiture claim against Lay for $43.5 million.

It's hard to believe, but the case law on this point is crystal clear, says Peter Henning, professor at Wayne State University Law School. "The idea is that you can't punish a dead person. It's not fair," says Henning. "Lay didn't get a chance to go in front of a court of appeals, which he had an absolute legal right to do.

"The prosecutors are not going to be able to fight this one," says Henning, who adds that the basic tenet behind the Parsons decision goes back to a 1971 Supreme Court case".



Rex
I just saw this article and was going to post it but you beat me to it. One thing that this article makes clear is that the civil suits can proceed and that testimony from the criminal case can be used in the civil law suits.
 

TheDoctor said:
I just saw this article and was going to post it but you beat me to it. One thing that this article makes clear is that the civil suits can proceed and that testimony from the criminal case can be used in the civil law suits.

Do you think that the SEC will settle with Linda Lay as the article suggests?


Rex
 
rparmfamily said:
Do you think that the SEC will settle with Linda Lay as the article suggests?


Rex
Yes The SEC has limited resources and a lawsuit against Ken Lay's estate may not be the best use of the resources. To a large degree the SEC was able to piggyback on the sucess of the federal prosecutors. The guilty verdict would have forced Ken Lay (if he had lived) to give in to the SEC at some point. Now the SEC will have to work much harder to get a judgment against the Lay estate.

The civil plaintiffs are not going to go away but this ruling may make it easier for the Lay estate to settle. The directors and officers liablity insurance carriers will have a hard time now in denying coverage for the Lay estate due to Lay's criminal acts and therefore may be willing to settle with the plaintiffs. The problem is that the amount of the claims held by the private plaintiffs are so large that these plaintiffs may not be willing to settle for any thing less than all of the assets of the estate and all of the insurance proceeds.

It is going to take years for this to sort out.
 
TheDoctor said:
Yes The SEC has limited resources and a lawsuit against Ken Lay's estate may not be the best use of the resources. To a large degree the SEC was able to piggyback on the sucess of the federal prosecutors. The guilty verdict would have forced Ken Lay (if he had lived) to give in to the SEC at some point. Now the SEC will have to work much harder to get a judgment against the Lay estate.

The civil plaintiffs are not going to go away but this ruling may make it easier for the Lay estate to settle. The directors and officers liablity insurance carriers will have a hard time now in denying coverage for the Lay estate due to Lay's criminal acts and therefore may be willing to settle with the plaintiffs. The problem is that the amount of the claims held by the private plaintiffs are so large that these plaintiffs may not be willing to settle for any thing less than all of the assets of the estate and all of the insurance proceeds.

It is going to take years for this to sort out.


Very cool and thanks for the data. This is im sure giving all of the supporters of Lay a good laugh, kinda like a final up yours to the government from him.

Rex
 
I saw this article where they are claiming that Ken Lay's death could give Jeff Skilling a chance at a new trial. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060707.IBENRON07/TPStory/Business I do not agree with this theory but I have no doubt that Skilling's legal defense team will use this argument on appeal. Here is part of the article
_____________
Mr. Skilling's legal team will almost certainly invoke Mr. Lay's demise to try to reverse his own fraud and conspiracy conviction or demand a retrial, legal experts said yesterday.

That's because Mr. Lay's death Wednesday of an apparent heart attack effectively voids the entire case against the Enron founder, including the guilty verdict. Mr. Skilling, the former Enron chief executive officer who is appealing his own conviction, could now argue that much of the evidence against him stems from a case that no longer exists, argued lawyer Jacob Frenkel, a former federal prosecutor and white collar crime specialist.

"This is the first time this has happened in such a high profile case," Mr. Frenkel said. "Everybody is scrambling to see what the law says on this."

How it all plays out could set a legal precedent, he added.
 

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