Just wow

[eandt]

How many hoteliers have to staff 30,000 hotel rooms in a single metro area?

Look, it's not a catch-all excuse for any bad performance by Disney. But it's also not a factor that should be casually dismissed as if Disney is the one poor performer in the industry.

Some of the most popular timeshares in the us include Marriott Ko Olina, Sheraton Plantation in Myrtle Beach and Marriott Newport Coast. Check out their TripAdvisors. Plenty of 1 and 2 star ratings citing the same challenges DVC faces daily.



There's a lot we don't know, including the frequency with which these issues occur. There are 5000 DVC villas at WDW operating at near 100% occupancy. And we're sitting on a chat board that caters specifically to complaints from that audience. Conservatively, there are 25,000+ DVC check-ins occurring at WDW every single month. With that volume, there will never be a time where there aren't a handful of posts each month about late room entry.

Heard a wise man once say that "excuses are the tools of the incompetent" ...... seriously if Disney or any other business can't keep up then they need to pick their game up or make some changes, it's been a year and a half of "giving the benefit", enough is enough. If they want folks to believe that they are the gold standard in the industry then they need to start acting like it again. I refuse to "lower my expectations" or chalk it up to the "new normal" like some suggest. We paid 10's of 1000's of dollars for a "deluxe" product, I won't let them off easy when they fail to deliver me "deluxe".

 

[RoseGold]

But let's not pretend that 900-room Saratoga Springs faces the same challenges as a 150-room suburban Holiday Inn Express.

A 900 room Pop/All Stars has exactly the same challenges, and I doubt housekeeping is waking those people up at 8AM or putting them into rooms at 7PM.

 

[DonMacGregor]

A 900 room Pop/All Stars has exactly the same challenges, and I doubt housekeeping is waking those people up at 8AM or putting them into rooms at 7PM.

The rooms at Pop Century are "exactly the same" as the rooms at SSR? I didn't realize that.

 

[CBMom01]

Not all hotel rooms are equal when it comes to labor needed to maintain them. Rooms that are more often occupied by families with children require a higher housekeeper:room ratio to maintain the room. When most of the rooms in a hotel are often occupied by families with children, the whole hotel requires more staff to maintain. That effect is increased when those families with children do short stays. So a Disney hotel where the most common visitor is a family with children staying 2-3 days requires a lot more resources to maintain than a hotel with the same number of rooms that is primarily occupied by business travelers staying 4-5 nights.

I suspect the effect is even greater at Disney but that's just a gut feeling.

So even if your local gigantic business hotel is managing housekeeping they may be doing it with way less staff than Disney has available right now or with a larger labor pool to pull from. That's true of big city business hotels.

 

[tjkraz]

if Disney or any other business can't keep up then they need to pick their game up or make some changes...

In this particular context, I would argue that proactively knocking on doors and seeking out rooms to service *IS* picking up their game. Though it shouldn't be done in an intrusive manner.

If they want folks to believe that they are the gold standard in the industry...

They aren't.

I refuse to "lower my expectations" or chalk it up to the "new normal" like some suggest. We paid 10's of 1000's of dollars for a "deluxe" product, I won't let them off easy when they fail to deliver me "deluxe".

I have no problem with high expectations and also expect problems to be addressed promptly, with compensation if warranted. What isn't going to happen is a complete absence of problems.

Speaking from personal experience, in 18 years of ownership--easily 50-70 resort checkins--we've received a late room assignment exactly once. And we've had housekeepers knock on our door maybe 2-3 times, though never since we routinely started using the room occupied sign.

The overarching theme of these discussions often seems to be "Disney isn't even trying. They know they have problems and refuse to address them due to negligence or apathy."

Call me an optimist but my own assumption is that Disney is constantly tweaking its processes and procedures to improve these aspects of the guest experience, but realistically they'll never achieve 100% satisfaction. My own 98-99% satisfaction rate with on-time arrivals suggests an acceptable range.

Expecting perfection--while realizing that there are factors which conspire to make perfection difficult to deliver--are philosophies which can coexist.

 

[tjkraz]

A 900 room Pop/All Stars has exactly the same challenges, and I doubt housekeeping is waking those people up at 8AM or putting them into rooms at 7PM.

Those assumptions are easy enough to research if you're that invested.

Nevertheless, when Disney cites hotel occupancy levels at earnings reports, it typically tops-out around 90-92%. At 3000 room POP, that means 250-300 rooms which don't have to be clean by 4pm to still accommodate all incoming guests.

 

[eandt]

In this particular context, I would argue that proactively knocking on doors and seeking out rooms to service *IS* picking up their game. Though it shouldn't be done in an intrusive manner.



They aren't.



I have no problem with high expectations and also expect problems to be addressed promptly, with compensation if warranted. What isn't going to happen is a complete absence of problems.

Speaking from personal experience, in 18 years of ownership--easily 50-70 resort checkins--we've received a late room assignment exactly once. And we've had housekeepers knock on our door maybe 2-3 times, though never since we routinely started using the room occupied sign.

The overarching theme of these discussions often seems to be "Disney isn't even trying. They know they have problems and refuse to address them due to negligence or apathy."

Call me an optimist but my own assumption is that Disney is constantly tweaking its processes and procedures to improve these aspects of the guest experience, but realistically they'll never achieve 100% satisfaction. My own 98-99% satisfaction rate with on-time arrivals suggests an acceptable range.

Expecting perfection--while realizing that there are factors which conspire to make perfection difficult to deliver--are philosophies which can coexist.

Im not sure knocking on folks doors at 0800 is exactly being proactive, but hiring more properly trained housekeeping, being more efficient in scheduling, and requiring either face to face (like the good old days) or active electronic check out certainly would be. Obviously there will be problems and 100% satisfaction is probably impossible but there is a big difference in the dissatisfaction between having a burned out lightbulb or missing cookie sheet in a room as opposed to not getting in your room on time which is what this thread was about.

Personally our experience has been good over the years or we wouldn't keep going back and Disney has always been fair with us when they have not lived up to what they sold us but only because we spoke up and advised them of our issues. I was responding to the "lower the expectation" and the "prices are high because everyone wants compensated" crowd. My take is don't settle for mediocrity from Disney or any other good or service we purchase. Speak up if not satisfied or they will never know there is a problem. The OP sounds like they were made right as they should have been.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

This is a factor that I don't think receives much attention - every time I see a post stating that they stayed in multiple resorts over as many nights, I cringe. Other timeshare companies have started charging a housekeeping fee for stays of fewer than 7 nights. I'm sure DVC is well aware of that; whether they're considering implementing such a fee, I can't say. I do know by reading posts on the non-DVC Resorts board that Disney is paying sign-on bonuses and increasing wages in effort to recruit more housekeeping staff.

They do have the option to enact a minimum stay but I don't think a housekeeping charge for a night or two would fly too well for them especially since they were the ones who elected to sell too low of minimum buy ins (50 pts) for quite a few years.

The rooms at Pop Century are "exactly the same" as the rooms at SSR? I didn't realize that.

In regards to cleaning they are more similar than not. Make it Art of Animation and it's even closer.

Those assumptions are easy enough to research if you're that invested.

Nevertheless, when Disney cites hotel occupancy levels at earnings reports, it typically tops-out around 90-92%. At 3000 room POP, that means 250-300 rooms which don't have to be clean by 4pm to still accommodate all incoming guests.

Try to book POP and you rarely find a room available. I haven't checked out if they get into where the empty rooms are but it seems like they have the most difficulty filling the Deluxe hotels.

 

[RoseGold]

I've stayed in a lot of hotels at a lot of price points, and I've never been woken up at 8AM, except at DVC. I ALWAYS have the do not disturb tag on at all hotels. And it happens almost every time. Noon for a 2PM late check out? Sure. An hour before check out? Fine. But 8AM for a vacation this expensive?

I have lowered my expectations on this one. This is how DVC is operating, and I am at peace with that. But I would be stunned if any other hotel at this price point, including Disney cash side, woke guests up at 8AM.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I am of two minds on this debate, since I am not satisfied with how Disney turns the inventory, and that's coming from a Disney apologist. Having said that....

In regards to cleaning they are more similar than not. Make it Art of Animation and it's even closer.

I am NOT SURE how much I agree with this. When considering DVC rooms:
* Many have Dishwashers, Washing Machines, Dryers, Vacuums
* All have Paper plates, and cutlery - not found in the hotel side
* Some rooms have more bathrooms than the equivalent in the hotel side. All of them have more sinks.
* Excluding the pandemic, Most of the hotel rooms were cleaned daily, while DVC rooms could be as much as 7 days without a cleaning.

There are probably many other differences I am leaving out (fold out beds?).

Try to book POP and you rarely find a room available. I haven't checked out if they get into where the empty rooms are but it seems like they have the most difficulty filling the Deluxe hotels.

Another interesting point that clearly highlights the differences which I am loathe to point out since I do not want to give Disney a pass on this one.

Hotel resorts (like POP) keep a certainly amount of inventory breakage available to move people to a different room if one is not clean. The number this is will vary from hotel to hotel, but they do have some.

DVC resorts are by their nature designed to be at 100% utilization (minus the rooms that Disney itself owns which they may hold in breakage) giving much less flexibility.

 

[tjkraz]

I've stayed in a lot of hotels at a lot of price points, and I've never been woken up at 8AM, except at DVC. I ALWAYS have the do not disturb tag on at all hotels. And it happens almost every time. Noon for a 2PM late check out? Sure. An hour before check out? Fine. But 8AM for a vacation this expensive?

I have lowered my expectations on this one. This is how DVC is operating, and I am at peace with that. But I would be stunned if any other hotel at this price point, including Disney cash side, woke guests up at 8AM.

How many trips have you made and how often have you experienced this? Curious.

I'm at 98% getting into room on time and 90-95% not being bothered by housekeeping on check-out. It seems like a statistically relevant sample over 18 years as an owner, so that's where my bias lies. (I was rudely awakened by a loud bridal party in the room next door once, but probably can't hold Disney responsible for that.)

Pop century guests awakened early by housekeeping:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...p_Century_Resort-Orlando_Florida.html?m=19905
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...p_Century_Resort-Orlando_Florida.html?m=19905
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...p_Century_Resort-Orlando_Florida.html?m=19905
Pop Century late room access:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...p_Century_Resort-Orlando_Florida.html?m=19905
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...p_Century_Resort-Orlando_Florida.html?m=19905
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...p_Century_Resort-Orlando_Florida.html?m=19905
I've spent enough time looking at TripAdvisor reviews for both business and leisure to know it's not unique to Disney. It may be more common at Disney (again, much higher occupancy than industry average), but it happens elsewhere too.

 

[DonMacGregor]

In regards to cleaning they are more similar than not. Make it Art of Animation and it's even closer.

In what regard? Neither of those budget resorts have 1, 2, or 3 bedroom villas. None of their rooms have kitchens or even kitchenettes. No dishes or silverware to wash, no appliances (stove, fridge, washer and dryer) to clean. Villas can have as many as 6 or 7 beds to change linens on, and multiple bathrooms. MAYBE comparing a studio to a standard room MIGHT get you similar square footage, but there's absolutely no comparison between cleaning any villa beyond a studio and a standard budget hotel room.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I am of two minds on this debate, since I am not satisfied with how Disney turns the inventory, and that's coming from a Disney apologist. Having said that....



I am NOT SURE how much I agree with this. When considering DVC rooms:
* Many have Dishwashers, Washing Machines, Dryers, Vacuums
* All have Paper plates, and cutlery - not found in the hotel side
* Some rooms have more bathrooms than the equivalent in the hotel side. All of them have more sinks.
* Excluding the pandemic, Most of the hotel rooms were cleaned daily, while DVC rooms could be as much as 7 days without a cleaning.

There are probably many other differences I am leaving out (fold out beds?).



Another interesting point that clearly highlights the differences which I am loathe to point out since I do not want to give Disney a pass on this one.

Hotel resorts (like POP) keep a certainly amount of inventory breakage available to move people to a different room if one is not clean. The number this is will vary from hotel to hotel, but they do have some.

DVC resorts are by their nature designed to be at 100% utilization (minus the rooms that Disney itself owns which they may hold in breakage) giving much less flexibility.

The assumption is that larger suites and villas are both given more time. I'm not silly enough nor would I think anybody else is either to think that a 2BR is the same as cleaning a studio. A studio compared to cleaning a hotel room? Not too different.

And for breakage - DVC is ALSO supposed to be keeping an inventory for that same reason.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

In what regard? Neither of those budget resorts have 1, 2, or 3 bedroom villas. None of their rooms have kitchens or even kitchenettes. No dishes or silverware to wash, no appliances (stove, fridge, washer and dryer) to clean. Villas can have as many as 6 or 7 beds to change linens on, and multiple bathrooms. MAYBE comparing a studio to a standard room MIGHT get you similar square footage, but there's absolutely no comparison between cleaning any villa beyond a studio and a standard budget hotel room.

AoA has suites. I've already addressed about the rest.

 

[kristenrice]

They do have the option to enact a minimum stay but I don't think a housekeeping charge for a night or two would fly too well for them especially since they were the ones who elected to sell too low of minimum buy ins (50 pts) for quite a few years. In regards to cleaning they are more similar than not. Make it Art of Animation and it's even closer. Try to book POP and you rarely find a room available. I haven't checked out if they get into where the empty rooms are but it seems like they have the most difficulty filling the Deluxe hotels.

I believe they HAVE enacted a minimum stay for cash rooms. I don't think you can book single-night stays anymore for cash, particularly at the value resorts. I know that I was trying to add a night on to my DVC stay in October because our flights were cheaper to fly in the night before our stay and I wanted to add a "cheap" night and I could not do a single-night stay. I had to buy OTU points and book at OKW instead. There is no way they could get away with enacting a minimum stay with DVC resorts...well, they could, but there would be massive outrage among the members. I certainly wouldn't put it past them, but a minimum stay restriction would be the final straw for a lot of members. I do split-stays because I bought with the intention of staying in 1BR's for 5 nights. The points charts got adjusted and my stays now "cost" more points so I had to adjust. Now, I stay 2 nights in a studio and 3 nights in a 1BR. I still go for 5 nights, but I have to split my stay. If DVC said I have to stay a minimum of 3 nights, I would be in a heap of trouble. I would lose my ability to stay in a 1BR, or I would have to shorten my trips to 3 nights TOTAL. DVC was sold to me on the premise that it was flexible. I did not realize that I was going to be FORCED to alter my vacation style due to DVC constantly changing the terms on me.

 

[RoseGold]

Pop century guests awakened early by housekeeping:

Wow, looks like Pop does the rounds at 8AM too. I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse about DVC. I guess we are getting that authentic Disney Value experience. Maybe Disney needs to have some way to actually check out...

 

[DonMacGregor]

AoA has suites. I've already addressed about the rest.

The comparison addressed was made by RoseGold who referenced Pop Century or All Stars, neither of which have suites. Any reference to Art of Animation is moot. Regardless, this has become tedious.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I believe they HAVE enacted a minimum stay for cash rooms. I don't think you can book single-night stays anymore for cash, particularly at the value resorts. I know that I was trying to add a night on to my DVC stay in October because our flights were cheaper to fly in the night before our stay and I wanted to add a "cheap" night and I could not do a single-night stay. I had to buy OTU points and book at OKW instead. There is no way they could get away with enacting a minimum stay with DVC resorts...well, they could, but there would be massive outrage among the members. I certainly wouldn't put it past them, but a minimum stay restriction would be the final straw for a lot of members. I do split-stays because I bought with the intention of staying in 1BR's for 5 nights. The points charts got adjusted and my stays now "cost" more points so I had to adjust. Now, I stay 2 nights in a studio and 3 nights in a 1BR. I still go for 5 nights, but I have to split my stay. If DVC said I have to stay a minimum of 3 nights, I would be in a heap of trouble. I would lose my ability to stay in a 1BR, or I would have to shorten my trips to 3 nights TOTAL. DVC was sold to me on the premise that it was flexible. I did not realize that I was going to be FORCED to alter my vacation style due to DVC constantly changing the terms on me.

I had heard that Disney had done that for the resort side.

The POS has always allowed DVC to set minimum stays but I agree that the outrage would be high and there are many things done by DVC itself that would make it a difficult argument for them to do so to members while they themselves profited from particular actions they took that would make it almost impossible for some members to meet those minimums. Charging for housekeeping for short stays would simply be a work around to a similar end and I agree goes against most every sales pitch and decision historically done by DVC.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

The assumption is that larger suites and villas are both given more time. I'm not silly enough nor would I think anybody else is either to think that a 2BR is the same as cleaning a studio. A studio compared to cleaning a hotel room? Not too different.

But still different. You do have a kitchenette that needs to be handled. You do have the fact that (pre-pandemic) the hotel rooms are touched daily and DVC rooms are not. A single 1BR takes more to clean than 2 studios. You can whip through a number of studios in parallel very quickly. It takes longer to deal with all those appliances.

It adds more complexity when you have a mixture of 1BR's, 2BR's, Cut-offs, and Studios since each one has different needs than a cookie-cutter row of hotel rooms.

And for breakage - DVC is ALSO supposed to be keeping an inventory for that same reason.

Forgive me for being ignorant and blunt, but where is this stipulated in the contract? You prompted me to go look and after reading top to bottom of my BLT***, from what I can tell, they are authorized and enabled to sell up to the maximum number of points for the amount of inventory (minus what Disney holds as cash). That is up to 100% utilization. This is what I get from " In all events, DVD will not sell a number of ownership interests that would result in a greater than 'one-to-one use right to use night requirement ratio'".

There is a phrase which calls for them to BE ABLE TO hold inventory - specifically "The managing entity shall have the right to forecast anticipated reservation and use of accommodations of the timeshare plan and is authorized to reasonably reserve, deposit, or rent..."

But there is no where saying they are supposed to do that, have to do that, or are even expected to do that and in fact, assuming all points are in circulation and no one forfeits points, the system would be at 100% utilization in theory.

Again, this is different than a hotel.


*** disclaimer - I am neither a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I am also not claiming to be fully versed in all Florida Timeshare laws or requirements. This is just my layman's read of the contract.

 

[pixi509]

A 900 room Pop/All Stars has exactly the same challenges, and I doubt housekeeping is waking those people up at 8AM or putting them into rooms at 7PM.

I was at All-Star Movies in August. A housekeeper absolutely started knocking at 8AM, and multiple times from then on, until my mom started barking at her.

My mom refused to tip because of it, which I made up for after she'd headed to the car...Checkout morning: low point of the trip for her for sure.