Just paid $30 for Genie+

[DisneylandFan22]

The wait time for Rise of the Resistance got up to 420 minutes.

 

[Steven G]

My observances:

1) MaxPass (MP) was competing with FastPass (free), and thus not as many people bought it, and thus, we have good memories of using MP over Genie+, even though, for all intents and purposes, MP and Genie+ are actually very similar to each other, with just a few changes.

2) Now that there is no "free" alternative which was very competitive to MP, Disney has reason to allow as many people as possible to get Genie+, and it shows.

3) Maxpass (and FP) WAS bad on busy days. For e-tickets, you often had to wait 3-4 hours to get on the ride, and many sold out just as quickly as now or worse.

4) Because it was "free", they had no obligation to offer FP to as many people that wanted one, and thus many e-tickets sold out quickly.

5) My memories indicate that except for a few times (usually due to a ride breakdown), once you got into a FP lane, it was usually pretty quick.

So my theory is:

MaxPass was surely making them money, but because of the free alternative, it was hampering their cash flow.
As well, they decided to allow more customers to book LL than in the past, since more people are buying Genie+.

Thus, I believe that, especially on busy days, you have more people getting Genie+, and Disney is offering more LL to people, making the wait time inflate.

Thus you have the worst of both worlds. You still have e-ticket attractions selling out quickly, but even when you get a LL for one, you still have to wait in line.

This is why they really need to switch to Universal Express style and pricing.

 

[Genie+]

I am starstruck. Emailed Len Testa just now and heard back from him in 11 minutes! He says they are working on this very question right now and expect to have some sort of answer in about a month after gathering more data.

My guess for both DL and WDW is people expected less and therefore utilized less from FP than they do now with paid Genie+, plus ILLs remove significant capacity.

I can’t speak much to DL but know WDW pretty well. Average guest daily would get 1 top attraction at each of the 3 parks not named MK. MK you could count on 2 but not on 7DMT, and the only reason you could get 2 was MK didn’t have FP+ tiers like the other 3 parks. In HS, EP and AK the tier 2 rides were things often with 15-30 minutes standby waits.

Average guests did not heavily rely on FP+ to get them through most of a park’s higher demand attractions. The mentality was more toward FP being a help and most guests tolerated and accepted the limitations of a FREE system. Not the same mentality with paid Genie+ where people plan on pounding it to get their money’s worth.

 

[mom2rtk]

My guess for both DL and WDW is people expected less and therefore utilized less from FP than they do now with paid Genie+, plus ILLs remove significant capacity.

I can’t speak much to DL but know WDW pretty well. Average guest daily would get 1 top attraction at each of the 3 parks not named MK. MK you could count on 2 but not on 7DMT, and the only reason you could get 2 was MK didn’t have FP+ tiers like the other 3 parks. In HS, EP and AK the tier 2 rides were things often with 15-30 minutes standby waits.

Average guests did not heavily rely on FP+ to get them through most of a park’s higher demand attractions. The mentality was more toward FP being a help and most guests tolerated and accepted the limitations of a FREE system. Not the same mentality with paid Genie+ where people plan on pounding it to get their money’s worth.

Yes, people definitely have higher expectations when they are paying for it, and I'd wager Disney underestimated that.

I also think a lot of people forget that the inventory for G+ is much lower than for FP+ because of all the inventory held out for ILLs.

 

[starlite_]

My guess for both DL and WDW is people expected less and therefore utilized less from FP than they do now with paid Genie+, plus ILLs remove significant capacity.

I can’t speak much to DL but know WDW pretty well. Average guest daily would get 1 top attraction at each of the 3 parks not named MK. MK you could count on 2 but not on 7DMT, and the only reason you could get 2 was MK didn’t have FP+ tiers like the other 3 parks. In HS, EP and AK the tier 2 rides were things often with 15-30 minutes standby waits.

Average guests did not heavily rely on FP+ to get them through most of a park’s higher demand attractions. The mentality was more toward FP being a help and most guests tolerated and accepted the limitations of a FREE system. Not the same mentality with paid Genie+ where people plan on pounding it to get their money’s worth.

This makes sense, I think our record using fastpass for DLR was maybe 7. We wouldn't have been doing any tricks or less well known things. With Genie+ we got like 15 rides in thanks to MEPs.

 

[Angel141925]

I just wish genie+ would let you schedule any time available instead of just the next available time. It makes it complicated to use around dining reservations, mobile orders and entertainment. Keep the 2 hours between selections if need be but at least let me pick the return time I want.

 

[twodogs]

I am horrible with math and lots of numbers tend to overwhelm me. With that disclaimer out of the way, how did you arrive at that amount? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just really curious how you arrived at that price range.

Current “high season” pricing for a VIP tour for 8 hours is `$5000 (does not include PH tickets or tip), for a max of 10 guests, including infants. Most tours have about 6 guests, to my observation (and in my own personal VIP tours). We usually tip $500, minimum. So say $5500 for 8 hours divided by 10 people (we will max it out for this example, but it will be even more per person if your group was not 10 people). That’s about $69/hour/person (for our usual group of 6, that’s $115/hour/person). If you want that Express Pass to be the entire park day like it is at Universal, that is 14-18 hours, so call it $965-1240/person/day ($1600-$2000/person/day if the group was 6 guests). Then if you want “front of the line” which the VIP tour IS NOT, it would be even more expensive. So anyone who thinks Disney is going to sell some Express Pass with FOL access for the whole park day for anything less than that is not looking at the product price of what they already offer in the VIP tour (and often sell out of VIP tours for the day).

 

[wendlle]

I actually liked Max Pass better than original FP, why didn't they just keep that??
It was a paid for system that actually worked.

 

[mom2rtk]

I actually liked Max Pass better than original FP, why didn't they just keep that??
It was a paid for system that actually worked.

Because they wanted to make more money selling G+ AND individual lightning lanes.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

Because they wanted to make more money selling G+ AND individual lightning lanes.

They could have kept the MaxPass system and just taken away the free fast passes. It worked so much better.

 

[limace]

They could have kept the MaxPass system and just taken away the free fast passes. It worked so much better.

And offered ILL within that system.

 

[wendlle]

And offered ILL within that system.

Exactly, it worked

 

[Aurora0427]

Current “high season” pricing for a VIP tour for 8 hours is `$5000 (does not include PH tickets or tip), for a max of 10 guests, including infants. Most tours have about 6 guests, to my observation (and in my own personal VIP tours). We usually tip $500, minimum. So say $5500 for 8 hours divided by 10 people (we will max it out for this example, but it will be even more per person if your group was not 10 people). That’s about $69/hour/person (for our usual group of 6, that’s $115/hour/person). If you want that Express Pass to be the entire park day like it is at Universal, that is 14-18 hours, so call it $965-1240/person/day ($1600-$2000/person/day if the group was 6 guests). Then if you want “front of the line” which the VIP tour IS NOT, it would be even more expensive. So anyone who thinks Disney is going to sell some Express Pass with FOL access for the whole park day for anything less than that is not looking at the product price of what they already offer in the VIP tour (and often sell out of VIP tours for the day).

I don’t think anyone is asking for a front of the line pass. Universal Express isn’t that. Universal also has a VIP tour…. Which is completely awesome. Guess I’m just confused as to why it’s impossible for Disneyland to offer an expensive express pass similar to Universal. How would that interfere with the VIP tours? They’re very different things.

 

[Kit Jackson]

@Aurora0427- To sort of answer your question, this wasn't about offering VIP tours versus special lines like FastPass/Lighting Lane/ExpressPass.

@twodogs breakdown of the VIP tour cost was based on a question that I asked after @GoingSince1990 posted this:

I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations back when people were pondering what would replace FP and concluded that a Universal-style ride anytime pass for Disney would need to be priced at something like $700 to $900, per person, per day.

I was curious how they arrived at that number, and @twodogs reply was an answer to my question.

Current “high season” pricing for a VIP tour for 8 hours is `$5000 (does not include PH tickets or tip), for a max of 10 guests, including infants. Most tours have about 6 guests, to my observation (and in my own personal VIP tours). We usually tip $500, minimum. So say $5500 for 8 hours divided by 10 people (we will max it out for this example, but it will be even more per person if your group was not 10 people). That’s about $69/hour/person (for our usual group of 6, that’s $115/hour/person). If you want that Express Pass to be the entire park day like it is at Universal, that is 14-18 hours, so call it $965-1240/person/day ($1600-$2000/person/day if the group was 6 guests). Then if you want “front of the line” which the VIP tour IS NOT, it would be even more expensive. So anyone who thinks Disney is going to sell some Express Pass with FOL access for the whole park day for anything less than that is not looking at the product price of what they already offer in the VIP tour (and often sell out of VIP tours for the day)

 

[twodogs]

I don’t think anyone is asking for a front of the line pass. Universal Express isn’t that. Universal also has a VIP tour…. Which is completely awesome. Guess I’m just confused as to why it’s impossible for Disneyland to offer an expensive express pass similar to Universal. How would that interfere with the VIP tours? They’re very different things.

How would a Universal EP model be that different than the current VIP tour (other than you don’t have to have an actual Plaid walk around with you at Universal)? The offerings (unlimited rides in the “fast line” other than very top tier rides, at any time that you want) seem very similar, though Disney charges MORE than Universal for this option (because the per hour per person cost at Disney is much more than Universal charges for EP even on their most expensive day). So thinking Disney is going to charge anything less than they currently charge for the VIP tour per person per hour for a similar service makes no economic sense for Disney. People already are paying Disney more for this type of service than Universal charges.

So I agree that Disney could offer this, but it is going to cost much, much more than the Universal EP.

 

[starlite_]

It's absolutely mindboggling to me how much ppl praise Universal's system when half their rides are screen simulators. And not even a nice interactive one like MF:SR. From what I can see there are 11 rides (12 with the studio tour), and out of those 5 (FIVE!) are screen based rides. That's almost half. I can't imagine paying more than Disney prices just so I can ride unlimited screen simulators. I suppose you can ride the HP rides, Jurassic World and the Mummy one on repeat

Wait I just checked, it's not even unlimited. It's ONE-TIME access to the express line. Ok I'm into this $ comparison now, so with the cheapest possible dates we will have, :

Cheapest express pass day for Universal: $189
Cheapest day at DLR with Genie+: $139

That means you are paying per ride:

Universal: $15.75 (12 rides)
Disneyland: $5.1 (27 rides)

That is not counting of course entertainment on either park, the ships/extra vehicles/railroad at Disney. Or the whole of California Adventure.

Shows wise, Universal kinda wins with 6 shows vs 4 at Disneyland (will be 5 once the parade comes back). Universal has 30 dining spots vs 45 at Disneyland.

I honestly believe some folks seem to praise Universal because they get to do everything possible in a day, maybe even with repeats, but I'm not sure if that is exactly a good thing considering there is so much less to actually do. Universal has less than half the rides at Disneyland. Their own filters tell me Universal has 10 Kid Friendly things to do vs like 50 at Disneyland.

The only difference between the express pass vs Genie+ is that you need to schedule Genie+.

Now I'm sure this will change a bit when Nintendo World opens and Universal has like... 14 rides total. And tbh I'm not really sure how to end this post beside saying that folks hate of phones might be coloring their perspective a bit. I don't know.

Edit PS. I am obviously talking about Universal Studios Hollywood. Universal Orlando would need to be compared to WDW as a whole.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's absolutely mindboggling to me how much ppl praise Universal's system when half their rides are screen simulators. And not even a nice interactive one like MF:SR. From what I can see there are 11 rides (12 with the studio tour), and out of those 5 (FIVE!) are screen based rides. That's almost half. I can't imagine paying more than Disney prices just so I can ride unlimited screen simulators. I suppose you can ride the HP rides, Jurassic World and the Mummy one on repeat

Wait I just checked, it's not even unlimited. It's ONE-TIME access to the express line. Ok I'm into this $ comparison now, so with the cheapest possible dates we will have, :

Cheapest express pass day for Universal: $189
Cheapest day at DLR with Genie+: $139

That means you are paying per ride:

Universal: $15.75 (12 rides)
Disneyland: $5.1 (27 rides)

That is not counting of course entertainment on either park, the ships/extra vehicles/railroad at Disney. Or the whole of California Adventure.

Shows wise, Universal kinda wins with 6 shows vs 4 at Disneyland (will be 5 once the parade comes back). Universal has 30 dining spots vs 45 at Disneyland.

I honestly believe some folks seem to praise Universal because they get to do everything possible in a day, maybe even with repeats, but I'm not sure if that is exactly a good thing considering there is so much less to actually do. Universal has less than half the rides at Disneyland. Their own filters tell me Universal has 10 Kid Friendly things to do vs like 50 at Disneyland.

The only difference between the express pass vs Genie+ is that you need to schedule Genie+.

Now I'm sure this will change a bit when Nintendo World opens and Universal has like... 14 rides total. And tbh I'm not really sure how to end this post beside saying that folks hate of phones might be coloring their perspective a bit. I don't know.

You can get unlimited EP at Universal for up to 4 people for 2 days for the price of one night in one of the deluxe hotels. I got one with an AP rate of $291.

Sorry, I see this is on the DL forum so I assume you're talking about Universal Hollywood.

 

[starlite_]

You can get unlimited EP at Universal for up to 4 people for 2 days for the price of one night in one of the deluxe hotels. I got one with an AP rate of $291.

Sorry, I see this is on the DL forum so I assume you're talking about Universal Hollywood.

I am not considering APs in my calculations. I'm only considering cheapest single day at each park. Why anyone would want to spend 2 days at Universal is even more beyond me tbh. From what I can see the Hilton is $1000, so you get to pay $250 per person to ride unlimited screen simulators!

 

[mom2rtk]

I am not considering APs in my calculations. I'm only considering cheapest single day at each park. Why anyone would want to spend 2 days at Universal is even more beyond me tbh.

I'm not familiar enough with the offerings on the west coast. We don't stay a week or anything, but had no trouble filling a couple days on 2 separate trips. When we bought our APs last year, they were only $6 more than a 3 day ticket. So we got the room discount last year and this year, and have admission for this year's trip (just days before they expire). Plus no park reservations and no limits on hopping (probably not an issue on the west coast).

 

[starlite_]

I'm not familiar enough with the offerings on the west coast. We don't stay a week or anything, but had no trouble filling a couple days on 2 separate trips. When we bought our APs last year, they were only $6 more than a 3 day ticket. So we got the room discount last year and this year, and have admission for this year's trip (just days before they expire). Plus no park reservations and no limits on hopping (probably not an issue on the west coast).

If your comments are about Universal Orlando then they don't apply to my calculations. I have never gone to that park, parks? I have no idea how they compare to Universal Hollywood. Plus a more fair comparison then would be to compare it to WDW, not DLR.