Just Back Today, Bad FP+ Experience for Offsite

[sethschroeder]

I always forget about the Mine Coaster. I guess in my head it will always be in a perpetual state of construction .

Guess it depends what comes first, Mine Train opening or prebooking for offsite.

I already decided using all 11 days FP+ on the mine train with no exception. When we go elsewhere we will survive the September crowds but the Mine Train will likely be packed every single day.

 

[mom2rtk]

I always forget about the Mine Coaster. I guess in my head it will always be in a perpetual state of construction .

Guess it depends what comes first, Mine Train opening or prebooking for offsite.

I'm guessing it will all happen around the same time, in one big "coincidence". I said all along I thought they were slow walking the Mine Coaster until they had the last piece in place for FP+.

 

[sethschroeder]

Forget the mirror duplicate. Just add Carsland like they did at DCA. THAT is the reason MH and I were able to find short lines at TSMM there.

Arent we supposed to see Pandora/Star Wars Land/ something with Marvel?

New rides and lands will help the issue and until then i will choose to skip anytime of the year that would be a level 7+.

 

[Shaden]

Which is exactly what us "negative" people have been saying since the start. If I may use the F word, it's still not fair .

They don't have enough ride capacity, especially at a park like DHS where everyone and their mother wants on TSMM, to give everyone a FP. People are still getting left out. There is no way to fix that until they build something or restrict the number of people in the parks. They can only give out so many FP until FP becomes stand by and stand by becomes the don't even bother line. Some people still can't ride TSMM, which is what so many people were praising FP+ for, it got them that illusive FP. The people getting shut out aren't the ones who don't do RD now, they're the ones who don't plan enough to grab the FP in advance (or can't, like current offsite guests). Someone is still losing.

This is a very astute observation.

And yes, this is what many of the "pro" FP+ people have been spouting since the beginning, "FP+ is way better because its so flexible, you can change your FPs on the Fly etc etc etc ... " Many of the FP+ critics have repeated pointed to the fact that this will not hold out if the system is successful. If Disney truly gets people to Pre-book, there is NOT ENOUGH CAPACITY for there to be daily flexibility. It IS NOT POSSIBLE. Now, if Disney is not successful, and people don't pre-book, then great, there will be flexibility.

The irony here is that there is most flexibility when you need it the least, during the slowest times of the year, tons of flexibility. Don't need FPs because lines are non-existent ? There are Tons of FPs available !!!!
Busy time of year ? Show up to a park and are hating the crowds and want to hop to another ? Sorry, FPs gone. Weather come in a mess up your plans and want to switch up your park days ??? Sorry, FPs gone, you can HOPE to get some the next morning (if they continue holding some back for day of, though I doubt this if they allow off site to pre-book) ... but you might also be completely shut out before you even enter or get to the park ...

 

[Mad Hattered]

Arent we supposed to see Pandora/Star Wars Land/ something with Marvel?

New rides and lands will help the issue and until then i will choose to skip anytime of the year that would be a level 7+.

To answer your question, Yes/No/No.

Avatar is in AK....it will do little to alleviate the line at TSMM. There would have to be an attraction built in DHS for that to happen. That will not happen as long as they are committed to the spending in AK. They just dropped 1.5-2 billion on MM+ and $800 million on Fern Gully so there will be no Star Wars around for a long time.

 

[Jennasis]

Forget the mirror duplicate. Just add Carsland like they did at DCA. THAT is the reason MH and I were able to find short lines at TSMM there.

It is my understanding that TSMM NEVER had long lines at DCA like it does at DHS even before Carsland was built.

 

[ucfknight]

Arent we supposed to see Pandora/Star Wars Land/ something with Marvel?

There will never be anything Marvel related in a WDW park unless Disney cuts Universal at least a $500 million check. Don't see that happening soon.

Stars Wars expansion is certainly in development and I would be shocked not to see construction start within the next 5 years. But that's still a long way away.

 

[Jack44]

It is my understanding that TSMM NEVER had long lines at DCA like it does at DHS even before Carsland was built.

We were there last 4th of July and never saw a more than 20 minute wait

 

[ucfknight]

While it could have been spent on attractions they still would be over crowded at the busiest times of year unless they got 2 head-liners in every single park or created a whole new park as well as 1 head liner in each park.

$1.5 billion could have easily bought 2 headliners at each park, and then some. In fact, they could have built 2 Expedition Everest type rides (~$100 million each) plus 2 Toy Story Midway Mania type rides (~$80 million each) at each of the 4 parks for less than the amount that was spent on MyMagic+.

What do you think would have made people want to visit Disney World more often?

 

[bcrook]

This is a very astute observation.

And yes, this is what many of the "pro" FP+ people have been spouting since the beginning, "FP+ is way better because its so flexible, you can change your FPs on the Fly etc etc etc ... " Many of the FP+ critics have repeated pointed to the fact that this will not hold out if the system is successful. If Disney truly gets people to Pre-book, there is NOT ENOUGH CAPACITY for there to be daily flexibility. It IS NOT POSSIBLE. Now, if Disney is not successful, and people don't pre-book, then great, there will be flexibility.

The irony here is that there is most flexibility when you need it the least, during the slowest times of the year, tons of flexibility. Don't need FPs because lines are non-existent ? There are Tons of FPs available !!!!
Busy time of year ? Show up to a park and are hating the crowds and want to hop to another ? Sorry, FPs gone. Weather come in a mess up your plans and want to switch up your park days ??? Sorry, FPs gone, you can HOPE to get some the next morning (if they continue holding some back for day of, though I doubt this if they allow off site to pre-book) ... but you might also be completely shut out before you even enter or get to the park ...

Everything is upside and backwards with this ill conceived system.

The new battle cry is 'go when the crowds are low." Maybe that is the goal of all of this: make it miserable during peak time to drive people towards the other times of the year.

But Variable seasonal pricing would be an effective tool also and a lot cheaper to institute.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

To Denies's point though would TSM have FP+ times open at park opening but not 30 mins prior? So that if you would have waited until the gates opened possibly ticket times would have then been opened? Only Disney knows likely???

But if this was the case, how fair was that, if kiosks were already open and CMs were assisting offsite guests with booking FP+ and were not telling them that more TSMM spots would open in thirty minutes? In that case, the early bird loses out?

It seems like the FP+ system requires guests to have more insider knowledge that FP-.

 

[Love Tink]

It is my understanding that TSMM NEVER had long lines at DCA like it does at DHS even before Carsland was built.

That is because TSMM in California does not have Fastpass (at all) - so the stand by line moves twice as quickly.

Waits were still the longest of any ride in the park before the opening of Carsland.

 

[All American]

It is my understanding that TSMM NEVER had long lines at DCA like it does at DHS even before Carsland was built.

Toy Story isn't too bad at DCA. The longest I've ever waited is 45 minutes, which is fine by me knowing how long people wait in Florida for it. I think part of the reason why it's not as bad is because there are more choices for families with small children.

When I've gone to Florida with our girls when they were too short for everything, the only rides I was aware I could take them on were Toy Story and The Movie Ride. Additionally, there was The Little Mermaid Show and the Disney Junior one, but beyond that, I wasn't aware of anything.

On the flipside, at DCA there is Bugsland, the Monsters Ride, Redwood Creek Challenge Trail, King Triton's Carousel, and the Little Mermaid ride. There's the Disney Junior show, the boardwalk games (even though lots of people hate them), and the Animation Building. All of that before Carsland. That may simplify the reasoning behind the sometimes extreme wait difference, but from personal experience, there are just more choices (and shade it seems). I really feel for the people who are willing to wait stand-by for Toy Story in Florida. I'd love to see more options there.

ETA to keep this post relevant to the topic: I am flying out with my husband in August. He'll be at a work conference. We'll be staying off-site. I'l be going to the parks solo during the daytime. I'm really curious about the whole process and am going with no plan just to see how it goes. I'll have the advantage of being by myself, but entertaining the thought of what it would be like off-site and with kids just makes me nervous. I really hope Disney finds the magic in the system and shares it with the guests.

 

[AthenaBolina]

Forget the mirror duplicate. Just add Carsland like they did at DCA. THAT is the reason MH and I were able to find short lines at TSMM there.

our line at TSMM in DCA was a good 45-60 minutes, in mid november! We got our FP for Cars land as soon as DCA opened, and it wasn't till 5PM that night.

 

[MyHappyPlaceToo]

I question whether or not Disney really cares about the "dissenters/offsite guests" at this point. I think they see those people as collateral damage to their intended objective; they want more onsite guests. period. Those are the people spending every minute of their vacation giving $$ to Disney. Look at all the value resorts built - why? to get people to stay onsite. The advance FP+ is another way to encourage that.

I haven't used the system yet so I am reserving judgement, but it saddens me to see so many people having a difficult vacation instead of a magical one. I hope Disney has a bigger plan that we just can't see yet.

 

[morethananyonex]

I question whether or not Disney really cares about the "dissenters/offsite guests" at this point. I think they see those people as collateral damage to their intended objective; they want more onsite guests. period. Those are the people spending every minute of their vacation giving $$ to Disney. Look at all the value resorts built - why? to get people to stay onsite. The advance FP+ is another way to encourage that. I haven't used the system yet so I am reserving judgement, but it saddens me to see so many people having a difficult vacation instead of a magical one. I hope Disney has a bigger plan that we just can't see yet.

All signs point to prebooking coming to offsite guests in the future. I don't agree that this is all to bring to people onsite. It's to increase profits by keeping people at Disney for longer, regardless of where they're staying.

Disney knows they cannot move all the offsite guests onsite. They want to make sure those guests buy their Disney tickets in advance and book their FP so they aren't tempted by other parks. Offsite guests are very important to Disney's success.

The advance FP+ system encourages onsite booking at the moment, I have a hard time the difference between on and off will be this large in the future.

 

[bcrook]

I question whether or not Disney really cares about the "dissenters/offsite guests" at this point. I think they see those people as collateral damage to their intended objective; they want more onsite guests. period. Those are the people spending every minute of their vacation giving $$ to Disney. Look at all the value resorts built - why? to get people to stay onsite. The advance FP+ is another way to encourage that.

I haven't used the system yet so I am reserving judgement, but it saddens me to see so many people having a difficult vacation instead of a magical one. I hope Disney has a bigger plan that we just can't see yet.

This doesn't make sense to me. Disney says they have 79% occupancy rates. During peak times, that rate is obviously higher. How does fastpass put more people in the rooms then?

I do see how Disney can increase the rates for onsite guests if offsite remains at a significant disadvantage.

But, this doesn't explain the DVC members. Those rates are locked in, so that doesn't seem to work. I can't see DVC sales going up over three measly FP.

 

[flicx]

$1.5 billion could have easily bought 2 headliners at each park, and then some. In fact, they could have built 2 Expedition Everest type rides (~$100 million each) plus 2 Toy Story Midway Mania type rides (~$80 million each) at each of the 4 parks for less than the amount that was spent on MyMagic+.

What do you think would have made people want to visit Disney World more often?

Absolutely! The money should have been spent on the parks. Two new headliners at each park would have brought so many more people! Disney is losing sight of why people go to Disney. The number one reason is the parks. End of story. Without the parks Disney is an empty shell. I really think the higher ups need to rethink their strategies. More rides also solve crowd issues. The more rides the more people are spread out. I guess its too late for this though the 1.5 billion is spent. I really think til this all plays out some heads era gonna roll in management. Hopefully it is Mr. million dollar plus a week salary man Bob Iger!

 

[Angel Ariel]

While it could have been spent on attractions they still would be over crowded at the busiest times of year unless they got 2 head-liners in every single park or created a whole new park as well as 1 head liner in each park.

What Disney is doing is developing the infrastructure for the next 20-30 years. This system will allow them to track data to make more money to make more rides in the future if they choose to. This system allows them to deliver content never before possible. This system fits with the mindset of quite a few people to schedule what they are going to do on vacation (how about going to europe and just getting a room and a plane ticket...). This system allows for integration into the 21st century technology we have on us at all times (55% of americans have smartphones and that number is growing). This system is the infrastructure that can have additional things built into it over the years.

The 1.5 billion did not go just to FP+ and likely decided that 1.5 billion would actually have a return/break-even in the next couple years with dividends in the future. Not sure Disney's practice but I would suspect they would at least want a 4x+ payout under a certain timeline. This can be soft-dollars such as tracking who goes to which restaurant or what rides go over best with which age groups or who stays for the fireworks and if they get something to eat before them?

Funny you say that. My husband and I did just that when we were dating and he was stationed in Europe. I went over to visit him and all we had "planned in advance" was my plane ride to Germany, the train to Paris, and our hotel room there.

I knew what I wanted to do (having taken French for 7 years), but we did not have any kind of reservations for any of it. We decided what we wanted to do that day, and went and did it.

We did the same thing again the following year when I visited again and traveled to a few different German cities.

 

[Mad Hattered]

That is because TSMM in California does not have Fastpass (at all) - so the stand by line moves twice as quickly.

Waits were still the longest of any ride in the park before the opening of Carsland.

Exactly!