Just back, my FP+ feedback

[rastuso]

So, a recap:

If you go during a very low crowd season, get an infinite number of FP-, plus FP+ as a small test group, you'll have a fantastic time.

So, if you are at WDW THIS WEEK and NOT staying at POP, and brought expired ticket media, you can recreate this trip. If you are going at any point later than this week, please realize you will likely never have a trip such as this EVER AGAIN!

So, it's safe to say anyone now reading this thread should ignore it, as it will only give you false hopes.

Jason

 

[mggeary]

So, a recap:

If you go during a very low crowd season, get an infinite number of FP-, plus FP+ as a small test group, you'll have a fantastic time.

So, if you are at WDW THIS WEEK and NOT staying at POP, and brought expired ticket media, you can recreate this trip. If you are going at any point later than this week, please realize you will likely never have a trip such as this EVER AGAIN!

So, it's safe to say anyone now reading this thread should ignore it, as it will only give you false hopes.

Jason

That's a little doomsday in my opinion. For those with young kids and staying on site, FP+ (even in tiers) and child swap should be more than enough in low-moderate crowd seasons, provided you show up near park opening. Legacy FP or douple dipping is just not necessary.

Those without access to FP+ or child swap will no doubt have to hustle and plan a bit more for now. In the end, i think this whole system will morph into something as good or almost as good as the old fastpass system for most of us. We'll work around it and adapt. Those who arrive early and have a smart, adaptable touring plan will always be a leg up.

In the end, satisfaction is all about expectations. Our last day, DD7 wanted to wait in Merida line which was 30+ minutes. We hadn't waited in line all week.. I relented. The kids ended up having a ball goofing around in line, bumped into a school classmate. You get the point. Sometimes lines bother us more than the kids and really are less horrible than we think.

 

[rastuso]

That's a little doomsday in my opinion. For those with young kids and staying on site, FP+ (even in tiers) and child swap should be more than enough in low-moderate crowd seasons, provided you show up near park opening. Legacy FP or douple dipping is just not necessary.

Those without access to FP+ or child swap will no doubt have to hustle and plan a bit more for now. In the end, i think this whole system will morph into something as good or almost as good as the old fastpass system for most of us. We'll work around it and adapt. Those who arrive early and have a smart, adaptable touring plan will always be a leg up.

In the end, satisfaction is all about expectations. Our last day, DD7 wanted to wait in Merida line which was 30+ minutes. We hadn't waited in line all week.. I relented. The kids ended up having a ball goofing around in line, bumped into a school classmate. You get the point. Sometimes lines bother us more than the kids and really are less horrible than we think.

If by "adaptable" you mean be happy with only one big ride at 3 parks, and only 3 at the MK FOR THE ENTIRE DAY, without waiting in hour long lines, then sure, I guess we all have to be adaptable.

I wonder if ticket price will be adaptable too, since I'll be getting MUCH less than I am used to.

I'm sure there are some people who think a character meet and greet is enough to justify almost $300 of entrance media to the park, but I'm not one of them.

Jason

 

[Disneylover99]

So, what I'm hearing is that you can re-schedule a FP+ and come back to use it later even though you missed your window (i.e. use a FP+ outside of the return window). Does anyone else see the irony?

You have 3 FP's per day, per park. Whether or not you use them is up to you. But you will not lose them until you redeem them or until the day ends.

However, your ability to make changes significantly decreases as the day progresses. Some people have reported excellent results in making changes, while others have not been able to make changes at all.

 

[mom2rtk]

If by "adaptable" you mean be happy with only one big ride at 3 parks, and only 3 at the MK FOR THE ENTIRE DAY, without waiting in hour long lines, then sure, I guess we all have to be adaptable.

I wonder if ticket price will be adaptable too, since I'll be getting MUCH less than I am used to.

and

 

[redsbe]

If by "adaptable" you mean be happy with only one big ride at 3 parks, and only 3 at the MK FOR THE ENTIRE DAY, without waiting in hour long lines, then sure, I guess we all have to be adaptable.

I wonder if ticket price will be adaptable too, since I'll be getting MUCH less than I am used to.

I'm sure there are some people who think a character meet and greet is enough to justify almost $300 of entrance media to the park, but I'm not one of them.

Jason

Yes, if you visit during peak crowds and do not use RP, limited access to multiple rides on the most popular attractions has always been difficult, including with FP- in place. Same situation for the most popular theme parks and coaster parks all over the U.S. You can still get as MUCH if not MORE than you are used to if you plan accordingly even with FP+

 

[rebbyparker]

No the sky didn't fall on OP, she was able to get as many fp's as she wanted (seemed like she double and triple dipped) . She also was able to change a fp+ even if she missed a ride. We went in Sept, and if we missed a fp+ we were not able to reschedule. OP was also not at the parks at a particularly busy time. I don't think you can compare her experience with most people who are going to have to use fp+ in the future.

This. Christmas time, highest crowd levels ever. They need to get a handle on this before everyone and their brother are at the parks.

 

[Minischnaumom]

Just back from a trip 11/9 - 11/17 at WL.

Mostly very positive experience. Some tips that may help others.

1). Many front desk CMs still misinformed. At check-in, we were told our KTTW cards wouldn't work at Epcot or DHS for legacy FP. ?? Wrong. Current KTTW cards, all old trip KTTW cards, UT paper tickets, even old park tickets all pulled paper FPs.

2). If you have kids under 3, their KTTW cards will now pull paper FPs, even though they don't have tickets, major bonus for our group.

3). Child swap passes are like gold. We basically just used FP+ and child swap, and found very little need to even use legacy FP, with the exception of Dumbo/Barnstormer which are almost always only 30 min out, unconnected, and convenient to use given proximity.

4). Try to finalize your times for TSMM, Soarin, and Test Track by the night before. Day of it is very difficult to change. Even worse, you can't change these to other attractions easily once into the FP+ window, because you must first pick a new time before changing the attraction, which isn't possible for these three.

5). Other attractions were easy to change day of.

6) wiFi worked great for us in park, bring a small portable phone recharger in case battery runs low.

7) Recommend scheduling FP+ for early to mid afternoon after a scheduled lunch. If you make them for late AM or later evening you may find you don't need them due to low standby lines or being in another section of the park when plans change. This particularly applies to larger groups.

8). Skip FP+ for F!. Believe it or not, they forced us far left to worse seats then those entering later by general admission. Middle 3 sections reserved for dining package.

9). Illuminations FP+ also mostly a waste. If you do it, enter on the right of the reserved section at tower gift shop, which is not advertised. The left entrance builds a long line and strangely was let in later. Almost all on that side did not get front row spot or we're put behind the rose bushes.

10) Easy to swap bands and let others use them.

11) Easy to change missed FP+ to other attractions for less popular rides (ie missed 1pm Mission space, no problem, change to 4pm Mission Space, then change to other attraction)

12). Out of luck if miss FP+ time for TSMM, Soarin (no later times to switch into, couldn't get app to switch directly to another ride at another time )

13). MB makes you spend more on snacks, drinks, gifts, etc...just that much easier than digging out a credit card. FYI $1500 charging limit over your stay.

16). Great for ease of opening room door, going to pool without room card/wallet.

Overall great experience, but we were lucky enough to be able to use child swap. Totally get what a bummer it is for off site guests with paper FP running out much quicker.

Thanks for posting your tips! This is just the kind of info I am looking for!

 

[rastuso]

Yes, if you visit during peak crowds and do not use RP, limited access to multiple rides on the most popular attractions has always been difficult, including with FP- in place. Same situation for the most popular theme parks and coaster parks all over the U.S. You can still get as MUCH if not MORE than you are used to if you plan accordingly even with FP+

All parks around the world (I've been to probably 100 or so), have strategies that allow you to maximize your fun. RD is a critical part of ALL of them.

Visiting on a non-Saturday or non-busy day is also a universal requirement.

Problem is, FP+ essentially makes ALL but the absolutely dead days busy days. Since they always bribe people into their rooms, they run pretty high occupancy rate. If they have an 80%+ occupancy on any given day, with FP+, you won't be getting many big rides in. The math hasn't changed, and is still horrible.

25,000 rooms times 3 people per room times 3 FP+ times 80% = 25,000*3*3*.8 = 180,000 FP+

Major rides that historically had long lines:
MK - Splash, BTMRR, Space, and (NEW) (Likely highly overrated) Kiddie Mine ride
EP - TT, Soarin
DS - Tower, RnRC, TSMM
AK - Everest, Safari

That's 11 rides. Each one averages a very optimistic 1500 people an hour. Take 12 hours, at 100% FP+ availability, you get 198,000.

The observant reader will note that 180,000 is pretty darn close to 198,000, and probably close enough, taking downtime and other factors into consideration.

This means everyone could theoretically ride all the BIG rides at the park they are visiting. HOWEVER, that assumes park attendance ratios with major ride availability. It does not, and that is why I assume EP, DS, and AK will ALL be tiered and you will only get ONE major ride per day, and the other two rides will be only available via long standby wait.

That means that even a Monday in early May will have very limited access to the E tickets. However, a Monday in May at any other park open then will be a VERY good day to get lots of short wait rides.

You will also note that this is for a 12 hour day. Occupancy drops as park hours do, but not proportionally, so the "off season" won't have better availability.

OH, AND REMEMBER, THIS IS ONLY FOR DISNEY RESORT GUESTS!!! And since they only compose about half of a days attendance, all of these numbers, as horribly as they look, are actually twice as good as reality!!!

Oh, and I forgot Peter Pan

This isn't opinion, it is the math behind the atrocity that is FP+.

(Universal, feel free to hire me as a consultant)

Oh, and I would LOVE to see the math where FP+ will be giving me more than what I get now. I will not accept "it moves people to other rides, decreasing standby on others" as an answer, since it is essentially unprovable.

Jason

 

[Frozen Man]

We are headed there in a few weeks and this will help a lot as we finish our plans.

 

[OtherScott]

I wonder if ticket price will be adaptable too, since I'll be getting MUCH less than I am used to.

When you represent a significant portion of Disney's annual customer base, absolutley. Till then...

 

[baileybrad]

All parks around the world (I've been to probably 100 or so), have strategies that allow you to maximize your fun. RD is a critical part of ALL of them.

Visiting on a non-Saturday or non-busy day is also a universal requirement.

Problem is, FP+ essentially makes ALL but the absolutely dead days busy days. Since they always bribe people into their rooms, they run pretty high occupancy rate. If they have an 80%+ occupancy on any given day, with FP+, you won't be getting many big rides in. The math hasn't changed, and is still horrible.

25,000 rooms times 3 people per room times 3 FP+ times 80% = 25,000*3*3*.8 = 180,000 FP+

Major rides that historically had long lines:
MK - Splash, BTMRR, Space, and (NEW) (Likely highly overrated) Kiddie Mine ride
EP - TT, Soarin
DS - Tower, RnRC, TSMM
AK - Everest, Safari

That's 11 rides. Each one averages a very optimistic 1500 people an hour. Take 12 hours, at 100% FP+ availability, you get 198,000.

The observant reader will note that 180,000 is pretty darn close to 198,000, and probably close enough, taking downtime and other factors into consideration.

This means everyone could theoretically ride all the BIG rides at the park they are visiting. HOWEVER, that assumes park attendance ratios with major ride availability. It does not, and that is why I assume EP, DS, and AK will ALL be tiered and you will only get ONE major ride per day, and the other two rides will be only available via long standby wait.

That means that even a Monday in early May will have very limited access to the E tickets. However, a Monday in May at any other park open then will be a VERY good day to get lots of short wait rides.

You will also note that this is for a 12 hour day. Occupancy drops as park hours do, but not proportionally, so the "off season" won't have better availability.

OH, AND REMEMBER, THIS IS ONLY FOR DISNEY RESORT GUESTS!!! And since they only compose about half of a days attendance, all of these numbers, as horribly as they look, are actually twice as good as reality!!!

Oh, and I forgot Peter Pan

This isn't opinion, it is the math behind the atrocity that is FP+.

(Universal, feel free to hire me as a consultant)

Oh, and I would LOVE to see the math where FP+ will be giving me more than what I get now. I will not accept "it moves people to other rides, decreasing standby on others" as an answer, since it is essentially unprovable.

Jason

First off to MGGEARY thanks for the great information. We really miss the child swap part of touring from days gone by. Kids do eventually grow up.

We are visiting in the week before Christmas and are still digesting all the changes and impacts of FP+ and I hope many of your tips will still be available then.

Jason, I feel your pain on multiple levels. I am afraid that Disney is really gearing the whole FP+ thing, generally to new visitors. There will be some existing returning guests that take a more casual approach to touring and will really like the ability to grab a few FP before arriving at a park.

Unfortunately, our family falls into the category of arrive early, ride early and often (fast passing our brains out along the way), park hop, and repeat. I feel very much like you said that the value of my tickets are being reduced but the prices tend to go up every year. I love how Disney still gets you by charging you for the right for your tickets to not expire. You have to pay if you choose to insulate yourself against cost increases. Only company that I know that does that to you. I really believe that FP+ as it currently exists has made park hopper tickets much less valuable.

The sad part to me is that all of those surveys we answered over the years are now being somehow used against us.

At the end of the day, in our situation (DVC owners, repeat visitors) we will visit less often and spend much less money in the parks. Seriously, do Disney execs really think that most people are so mindless that this will somehow encourage us to visit more often and spend more money. I am missing something.

 

[rastuso]

Yeah, they were definitely duping people buying hopper tickets over the past few years.

All those hop days I have now are fairly worthless. The only hopping I can still see is a hop to DS for Fantasmic, but it sounds like the vast majority of the good seats are reserved now.

Oh well, Disneyland's is tons better anyway.

I guess hitting AK in the morning, and FP+ at another park in the afternoon.

Although, at this point, WDW is pretty much totally off my radar. Everything they have done the last two years to decrease the value of a day ticket there, and all they've added is a 60 second, lightly themed coaster that is so over-hyped it's scary.

Jason

 

[rebbyparker]

Yeah, they were definitely duping people buying hopper tickets over the past few years.

All those hop days I have now are fairly worthless. The only hopping I can still see is a hop to DS for Fantasmic, but it sounds like the vast majority of the good seats are reserved now.

Oh well, Disneyland's is tons better anyway.

I guess hitting AK in the morning, and FP+ at another park in the afternoon.

Although, at this point, WDW is pretty much totally off my radar. Everything they have done the last two years to decrease the value of a day ticket there, and all they've added is a 60 second, lightly themed coaster that is so over-hyped it's scary.

Jason

I'm with you. The Christmas trip will be our last for a while. Luckily, my sis came onboard(!) for a Disney cruise next year, and then maybe we'll check back and see how this is going after that.

 

[kmarie99]

Yeah, they were definitely duping people buying hopper tickets over the past few years.

All those hop days I have now are fairly worthless. The only hopping I can still see is a hop to DS for Fantasmic, but it sounds like the vast majority of the good seats are reserved now.

Oh well, Disneyland's is tons better anyway.

I guess hitting AK in the morning, and FP+ at another park in the afternoon.

Although, at this point, WDW is pretty much totally off my radar. Everything they have done the last two years to decrease the value of a day ticket there, and all they've added is a 60 second, lightly themed coaster that is so over-hyped it's scary.

Jason

I guess everyone tours differently, I don't know the last time we stayed in one park for the whole day. We hop every day!

 

[mggeary]

We've never been park hoppers, but I would think FP+ would improve park hopping. Rope drop 1st park, hit headliners standby until lines build (and if possible again with childswap an FP-). Park hop to 2nd park with 3 FP+ ready to go in the afternoon. Am I missing something? Sure the old days of paper FP without enforcable return times were the best, but short of returning to that, I don't see how FP+ devalues park hopping much, may even improve it.

 

[serene56]

I was able to salvage a totally missed FP+. For example, ToT FP+ 1-2pm missed, it is now 3:15pm. I could change it to ToT 5-6pm, and then if I wanted to another attraction. But if I missed RNRC FP+, I was stuck, because there were no more later RNRC FP+ to change into and I couldn't switch directly to another ride. I bet a CM at a FP + kiosk could have done this manually, but just guessing here.

what resort were you staying at?

 

[magicbob]

You have 3 FP's per day, per park. Whether or not you use them is up to you. But you will not lose them until you redeem them or until the day ends.

However, your ability to make changes significantly decreases as the day progresses. Some people have reported excellent results in making changes, while others have not been able to make changes at all.

I understand all of that. I just find it interesting that people are not held to the time they reserve.

Many would maintain that allowing someone to re-schedule their FP+ because they didn't make their return window is no different than when Disney allowed late use of FP-.

The argument could be made that it's more analogous to missing your FP time and pulling a new FP. Even if this is the case, you are kind of getting an extra FP+. One you didn't use and one that you use later. And you prevented someone from being able to get a FP+ at the earlier time. So, even though you only USED three FP+, you technically took up an extra FP+ slot.

 

[Redcon1]

Yeah, they were definitely duping people buying hopper tickets over the past few years.

All those hop days I have now are fairly worthless. The only hopping I can still see is a hop to DS for Fantasmic, but it sounds like the vast majority of the good seats are reserved now.

Oh well, Disneyland's is tons better anyway.
I guess hitting AK in the morning, and FP+ at another park in the afternoon.

Although, at this point, WDW is pretty much totally off my radar. Everything they have done the last two years to decrease the value of a day ticket there, and all they've added is a 60 second, lightly themed coaster that is so over-hyped it's scary.

Jason

At least for now.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

Just back from a trip 11/9 - 11/17 at WL.


2). If you have kids under 3, their KTTW cards will now pull paper FPs, even though they don't have tickets, major bonus for our group.

3). Child swap passes are like gold. We basically just used FP+ and child swap, and found very little need to even use legacy FP, with the exception of Dumbo/Barnstormer which are almost always only 30 min out, unconnected, and convenient to use given proximity.


10) Easy to swap bands and let others use them.

Always grab a child swap pass at every opportunity. The open ended return window is invaluable. Many CMs are kind enough to give them even if the little ones are not present at the ride.

For those with young kids and staying on site, FP+ (even in tiers) and child swap should be more than enough in low-moderate crowd seasons, provided you show up near park opening. Legacy FP or douple dipping is just not necessary.

Those without access to FP+ or child swap will no doubt have to hustle and plan a bit more for now.

First off to MGGEARY thanks for the great information. We really miss the child swap part of touring from days gone by. Kids do eventually grow up.

Don't worry baileybrad. Soon there will probably be a company that rents out kids to accompany you to WDW so you can take advantage of the FP+/child swap advantage.

Depending on how many small kids you rent, you could really multiply your FP+ using child swap. Just use the kids bands to make different FP+ choices than the adults. Have the adults use the child's bands to get on the rides (since the bands come off so easily) and snag a child swap pass for each ride. Then the other adult rides with all the kids.

This is all tongue in cheek. OP I am not picking on you at all. You used the system as it is set up to be used. Your posts just gave me this wicked idea. Sigh...I will have to rent kids too. My babies are all teenagers now.

ETA: Oooohhhhh someone thought of it before me: http://blog.touringplans.com/2010/12...combination-2/