Just back - Monorail rumor

Oh my.......I needed that laugh!

Your creative business insight would make fellow castmember Bobby so proud.
 
Back to the original subject. If I'm not mistaken there's been no major repair work done on the monorail track or towers at Disneyland and they have been in operation longer than the ones at WDW. Makes for good point of comparison as to when major repairs may be needed.
 
Back to the original subject. If I'm not mistaken there's been no major repair work done on the monorail track or towers at Disneyland and they have been in operation longer than the ones at WDW. Makes for good point of comparison as to when major repairs may be needed.



Besides being major workhorses of Disney's transportation vs. A ride at DL, you can't possibly believe equipment can operate every day for 40 years without major updates.

Still using the cell phone you had 40 years ago? I didn't think so. Why? Because in 40 years they have created better mousetraps---pardon the pun. AND better ways to operate a monorail.

No one is going to tell me the original monorail systems have not been improved.

But off topic. The basis of the conversation which started this thread is that equipment must be replaced because of it's current condition - due to casual (tight budget) maintenance. That's all.

I'm with Mitros....we avoid the monorail. I have a mild handicap so a ferry ride just seems more civilized....especially when you see the monorail stopped mid-ride, broken down.

......and the cars are getting icky.
 
Besides being major workhorses of Disney's transportation vs. A ride at DL, you can't possibly believe equipment can operate every day for 40 years without major updates.
What suffers the wear and tear are the vehicles themselves. The track if designed correctly should experience minimal if any wear. The vehicles at both locations have been replaced multiple times.
Still using the cell phone you had 40 years ago? I didn't think so. Why? Because in 40 years they have created better mousetraps---pardon the pun. AND better ways to operate a monorail.
Certainly not a valid comparison. To start with, with the possible exception of replacing batteries have you ever done any maintenance on a cell phone? Also they are basically a disposable electronic device. The monorail systems are basically mechanical (with electronic controls). Over time you'll see that older mechanical devices are much better built than newer ones. Machine tools are a great example, ones built back in the WWII era were much more solid and dependable than ones built today. Many machine shops still try to buy these older machines, they hold tolerances better and run forever. The newer ones are very fragile and have constant electronic problems! There are also many other examples.
 

I can certainly understand the reasoning by the original poster on this subject, but does Disney really have the final say so in the maintenance and replacement of the Monorail? I was always under the impression that the Monorail (at least in WDW as it is a mode of transportation and not simply a ride) fell under the same guidelines as any other transit system and as such Disney has to follow maintenance schedules just to be allowed to keep the trains certified for operation. Didn't some of these regulations come to light during the collision of the two Monorail cars several years ago? Since that accident and the intense scrutiny by law enforcement, DOT and the media, I would think that the monorail is the most regulated piece of equipment in the company.
 
I can certainly understand the reasoning by the original poster on this subject, but does Disney really have the final say so in the maintenance and replacement of the Monorail? I was always under the impression that the Monorail (at least in WDW as it is a mode of transportation and not simply a ride) fell under the same guidelines as any other transit system and as such Disney has to follow maintenance schedules just to be allowed to keep the trains certified for operation. Didn't some of these regulations come to light during the collision of the two Monorail cars several years ago? Since that accident and the intense scrutiny by law enforcement, DOT and the media, I would think that the monorail is the most regulated piece of equipment in the company.

I do not believe it comes under FRA oversight at all (that's more for metro and inter-city rail I believe - I don't believe most subway systems fall under the FRA either), although I think the NTSB was at least trying to exert some authority after the crash.
 
What suffers the wear and tear are the vehicles themselves. The track if designed correctly should experience minimal if any wear. The vehicles at both locations have been replaced multiple times.

Just a small comment.


The WDW Monorails have only been replaced once in the history of the parks (40yrs). The Parks opened with the MKIV's and in the Late 80's/Early 90's were completely replaced with the MKVI's. The only trainset changes beyond this one mass-replacement were the addition of a passenger car to the first MKIV's (from a 4 car length to a 5 car length trainset), The addition of a couple new trainsets when the EPCOT Center loop was added (I want to say 2 new trainsets increasing the fleet from 10 Monorails to 12), And then the 2 new cabs recently to replace the ones damaged in the accident a couple years ago.

The DL trains have been replaced (I want to say) 4 times.... From the MkI to MkII, and again to the MkIII and then MKV to the current MKVIIs. While a couple of these replacements recycled existing mechanical components, They were still basically rebuilt from the frame up.

The Rails themselves at WDW were also (If I remember correctly) modified slightly when the MKVI's were brought online as there was a slight difference in the rail ride heights. (Though to be honest, I may be mistakenly thinking the rails were modified at the same time as the station platform height and Contemporary entrances for the larger trains).


That being said, The DL rails have had a major advantage vs the WDW rails. DL Trains don't run at nearly the same speed as the WDW trains. I think I remember reading that the max speed the DL trains hit is about 35/40mph during a short stretch between the park at DTD/Disneyland Hotel station. The WDW trains routinely hit 45mph on the EPCOT loop.

The DL rails have also had some extended downtime to allow some basic maintenance on the rail and systems during refurbs in it's history...whether it be the extending the track from it's original in-park layout to allow the run to the Disneyland Hotel station..... Or when the trains have been shut down for trainset replacements or Sub Lagoon work.

The WDW rails in comparison have (especially over the past 10yrs) been running many more hours of the day year-round without any major downtime to allow for even basic preventative maintenances to occur. A couple hours overnight just doesn't cut it for how much those rails are traveled daily, which is one reason (besides the needed train work) we have seen so many changes in operational hours over the past year (No rails during EMH/ Midday stoppage in service/ etc).


There are also much different enviromental and track construction concerns between the two parks which make it hard to directly compare the 2 systems. It's easy to say "Attraction vs. Transportation" as the difference between them, but there is so much more to it than that.
 
I do not believe it comes under FRA oversight at all (that's more for metro and inter-city rail I believe - I don't believe most subway systems fall under the FRA either), although I think the NTSB was at least trying to exert some authority after the crash.

You may very well be correct. Would be interested to know if there is any outside oversight of any kind.
 
I can certainly understand the reasoning by the original poster on this subject, but does Disney really have the final say so in the maintenance and replacement of the Monorail? I was always under the impression that the Monorail (at least in WDW as it is a mode of transportation and not simply a ride) fell under the same guidelines as any other transit system and as such Disney has to follow maintenance schedules just to be allowed to keep the trains certified for operation. Didn't some of these regulations come to light during the collision of the two Monorail cars several years ago? Since that accident and the intense scrutiny by law enforcement, DOT and the media, I would think that the monorail is the most regulated piece of equipment in the company.

I do not believe it comes under FRA oversight at all (that's more for metro and inter-city rail I believe - I don't believe most subway systems fall under the FRA either), although I think the NTSB was at least trying to exert some authority after the crash.

I'm pretty sure since Disney still classified the WDW monorails as an Attraction internally (Even if to most outside people it's operation could be considered Mass-Transit-esque), It was not subject to any real Federal Oversight. In Fact, If I recall correctly, after the accident happened there were people saying that the reason OSHA had such a big part in the post-incident was because it was the only agency who had any real oversight over the system (As a workplace hazard). Disney Actually invited the NTSB to assist in the investigation because (at least in part) of their expertise in not only finding out what happened after such events, but could also help in determining how to avoid it in the future. (I'm betting there was a political motivation as well....including maybe a legal one in helping to potentially mitigate any damages from lawsuits).


It's because of that Attraction classification that we use to be able to ride in front with the Monorail Pilots. (and I think that's how they continued to justify it as a ride instead of a transportation system).


As for post-incident... i don't know if it's now subject to further oversight or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the maintenance on the system lately was in part due to outside pressure to bring the system back up to some sort of certification level (either oversight agency driven, or even just Insurance driven), and not just because of the years of neglect starting to cause reliability issues.
 
The problem is that Walt Disney world is the closest thing to a Vatican that exists in the US...

That would be due to the special privileges/ exemptions granted the incorporated town if lake buena vista and the reedy creek special improvement district.

Disney only agreed to build in Florida after they were granted near autonomous control.

Other than paying taxes ( which is a Florida cared about)...they almost aren't a part of Florida.

But they are in the united states...and while perhaps not being subject to the NTSB...they are under the authority of OSHA (as long as 1 employee is involved)
So if disrepair becomes the norm...eventually a higher power will get involved.

I know from my own experience that OSHA can be a vital and effective tool that can exert strict control with the court's almost unwavering mandate...

If they are funded and not interfered with because of political agenda...herein is the problem
 
That would be due to the special privileges/ exemptions granted the incorporated town if lake buena vista and the reedy creek special improvement district.

Technicality but please note that the entire monorail system is within the city limits of Bay Lake, Florida, not Lake Buena Vista, Florida.

BobK/Orlando
 
Someone on a different internet forum had this to day about upcoming changes being considered for the monorail system:

The system is likely to get major MODFICATIONS to the existing infrastructure in place. The entire system would be modernized (funny right?) and ALLOW for pilotless travel.. Management understands how popular the 'pilot' is and does not intent to remove them from the Cab.. but there are considerations to add automation to the trains to be used during the 'business' part of the system (moving trains onto the beamway, switching spurs, during override travel, etc)... ...they are STUDYING the feasibility of expanding the system further.. Including modifying 'concourse' to accept guests traveling to other destinations.. nothing concrete yet, on either front..... but I will say monorail expansion is being looked at.. but if only for due diligence. time will tell I suppose. just wait til research hits the TTC with questions about your preferred travel methods..

BobK/Orlando
 
Someone on a different internet forum had this to day about upcoming changes being considered for the monorail system:

The system is likely to get major MODFICATIONS to the existing infrastructure in place. The entire system would be modernized (funny right?) and ALLOW for pilotless travel.. Management understands how popular the 'pilot' is and does not intent to remove them from the Cab.. but there are considerations to add automation to the trains to be used during the 'business' part of the system (moving trains onto the beamway, switching spurs, during override travel, etc)... ...they are STUDYING the feasibility of expanding the system further.. Including modifying 'concourse' to accept guests traveling to other destinations.. nothing concrete yet, on either front..... but I will say monorail expansion is being looked at.. but if only for due diligence. time will tell I suppose. just wait til research hits the TTC with questions about your preferred travel methods..

BobK/Orlando

Interesting...I'm not sure what this accomplishes exactly, other than possibly removing one or two pilots from harm's way during the more dangerous reverse moves, but the pilot killed was not the one performing the reverse move, and the real errors happened with those supposedly in the control stations and not in the trainsets. About the only difference is that there isn't someone to push the alarm override.

As for the expansion, I wonder what the highlight of "concourse" means...it just seems worded strangely. But like most things, I'm sure there's blue sky plans to run it all over property.
 
Interesting...I'm not sure what this accomplishes exactly, other than possibly removing one or two pilots from harm's way during the more dangerous reverse moves, but the pilot killed was not the one performing the reverse move, and the real errors happened with those supposedly in the control stations and not in the trainsets. About the only difference is that there isn't someone to push the alarm override.

As for the expansion, I wonder what the highlight of "concourse" means...it just seems worded strangely. But like most things, I'm sure there's blue sky plans to run it all over property.

I'm just assuming the Concourse highlight was their way of refering to the station name.
 
hopefully they will extend the monorail system at wdw as when I was there in 2004 we ended up getting a bus from mk to ak and it was extremely uncomfortable whereas when i travelled from mk to epcot it was one of the quickest and most enjoyable rides I had had for a long time
 
hopefully they will extend the monorail system at wdw as when I was there in 2004 we ended up getting a bus from mk to ak and it was extremely uncomfortable whereas when i travelled from mk to epcot it was one of the quickest and most enjoyable rides I had had for a long time

It would be nice...but the reality is that Disney determined an expansion of the monorail as economically unfeasible about 20-25 years ago...it has two routes and only six stops...

In order to expand beyond that...they would need a mess of track and stations, many more employees, expanded maintenance budget, and a lot more trains...

The reality is that they would never even build the Epcot line if it were today...and they may have even installed a more "ride" type experience like the original Disneyland monorail, as opposed to a true "transport" system
 
that is really annoying, is there any stats about just how many people use it a day, also surely they could add a small fee for utilising it to cover some costs for upgrading the system
 
Nonsense, NASA faked the moon landing also right?
Guest safety is their #1 concern.
Disney is cutting back hours to keep up with needed maintence.
Disney is making boat loads of money on the parks, there is no need for a fee. To suggest such a thing is unfounded and comical.
 
that is really annoying, is there any stats about just how many people use it a day, also surely they could add a small fee for utilising it to cover some costs for upgrading the system

I actually don't think you'd want to know the numbers they would come up with for the cost of continued operation/ expansion...

because they would be gigantic...and if disney had them tossed around in their face - they would probably rather scrap the beams and trains they currently have altogether instead of even keeping them as is...

A per user fee would be a good idea - except that you can't trust them to keep their hands outta the cookie jar and keep it for what they state they are implementing it for...

the annual increases to tickets/ lodging/ some food and merchandise pricing is all ready well above standard inflation and cost of living anyway...so knowing that - how would you trust that whatever "improvement tax" they would charge would actually be used for what its worth? And their cost models are/ have always been ridiculously over budget - which means just because they start whacking everybody 5 bucks a head in 2012...doesn't mean they won't come back in 2014 and say it has to go up to 9 bucks a head....and that will be also without their standard "cost upkeep" percentage increases that they do one or more times a year for everything else already.

We'll be lucky if they continue to do more regular upgrading of the beam/ electrical systems and managed to spring for the new Mark of trains in the next 10 years or so....IF we're lucky.

A ticket to a Disney park was 13 dollars in 1982...which means adjusted for inflation...it should be $28.00 now.
What is it? 87.00 plus tax

Granted - that was before the all inclusive gate fees where put into place - so the real cost was more then because of ticket books - but even still...say it was really like $25.00 a head back then...
...it's WAY off the charts in todays term still...

just some perspective.:wizard:
 












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