Just back, concerns about children and pool safety....

[atigeg]

We are childless adults who have cruised Disney 26 times, plus four on Royal Caribbean. If you think the other cruise lines are any better, GOOD LUCK!!! We actually saw more out-of-control kids on Royal Caribbean (particularly Radiance...maybe because it was an Alaskan cruise and it was too cold to be outside much, so the kids were going nuts in the inside areas of the ship). We never saw any RCCL crew member say anything to the kids, even when they were clearly violating the rules and even being destructive (the billiards tables are one thing that comes specifically to mind, and on Voyager of the Seas we watched kids running from the adult hot tub, which is inside the spa, to the exercise equipment which they climbed all over while soaking wet...I'm amazed no one got an electrical shock). For adults, I think Disney is actually better because there are ENFORCED adults only areas where you can escape for some peace and quiet.
And happily, overall I can say that in over two dozen Disney cruises, we have rarely witnessed kids who were totally out of control. There have been a few instances, but they have been the minority. Most of the time it's just kids playing around and having fun. Of course they will be loud and running around at times...that's what kids do. But we love Disney Cruise Line and have never found misbehaving children to be a terrible problem that would keep us from coming back. On one of our cruises, there was a large group from an investment firm, and their drunken behavior throughout the cruise was a real turn-off (terrible language, boorish behavior, talking about clients by name, making fun of them, and disclosing what I would think would be confidential information). If people like that sailed all the time, I'd never go again! I'll take the rowdy kids any day.
Barb
Visit the Platinum Castaway Club at: www.castawayclub.com

 

[Aly]

I too think that there should be some rules that the DCL should inforce more,BUT I think that there are also some that really depend on the kids,and the parents. I think that DCL should have a cm watch the pools and help inforce the rules a little more(but not to get it confused with not letting them be kids) just making sure no one is hurting anyone else or putting themsevles at risk to be hurt. I DON"T think that kids under a certain age should have to be supervised by an adult or an older person. I think that would depend on the kid and the maturity level that they have. I also think that there SHOULD be more re-enforcement on the rule that kids must stay out of the adult sections! these are some rules that I think most people would at least consider.


*~Aly*~

 

[mmouse37]

I tend to think that DCL steers clear of "policing" too much because of parents reaction to it. I have seen CM's politely ask children to stop a certain behavior and have seen parents get into the CM's face for doing it.

Unfortunately, a small percentage of people's manners and sensibility seem to go out the window while on vacation. I know I would not want some parent screaming at me because I told their child they could not do such and such. The typical response is "I PAID ALL THIS MONEY SO MY KID CAN DO WHAT HE/SHE WANTS" is all too common.

Again, the responsibility lies with the parents to keep control of their kids. IMO.

Maybe if each time an "incident" is witnessed it should be reported to Guest Service so they can keep a log of it. I am sure if enough people were going down to Guest Service about the same issues they would get the hint that maybe some more supervision might be needed.


MJ

 

[reveric]

We just returned from a 3 day cruise. It was our first cruise ever and for whatever it's worth here were my observations....

I was taken aback by the chaos at the Mickey Pool. It took me a long time to relax and get used to the number of kids and the lack of supervision. Each time I was at the Mickey pool there were guards at the top and bottom of the slides. They didn't police the rest of the pool but they did a great job maintaining order around the slide. Away from the slide though it is a bit scary for a parent of a young child. Many of the older kids (6 or 7yo) were very respectful and careful of the younger kids but a few of them were pretty rambunctious. I'd definately recommend that any parent of a pre-schooler stay right there in the water with their child.

One morning I went to the adults only pool. When a CM walked by and saw some kids talking to their parents the CM did stop and politely tell the family that it was an adult only area. The parents weren't exactly rude to the CM but they made it very clear that they were talking to their children and that their children would leave when they were done talking to them. It wasn't a big deal but I was impressed that the CM even approached the parents and based on the parents reaction I don't know what else the CM could have done except back off.

All in all my kids LOVED the MIckey pool and while some kids were unsupervised most had parents either right there in the water or sitting very close to the sides of the pool.

 

[jellymoon]

I was the person that described the kids climbing on the slide. While I was concerned about their safety, I would have to say it did not compromise the enjoyment of my vacation in the least. Also, I don't think it was a CMs responsibility to remediate the situation. In this case, I think it was a large group travelling together an dI think the parents were the ones who were negligent. We were on a seven day cruise, and I saw the slide climbing happen only on that single day, with that same group of children.

I think cruising with Disney, one is going to need to expect to have children around. Our head server laughed one night at dinner and said that a couple had come in at lunch for a sit down and requested to be seated far away from any children. She said they did their best to accomodate but she said: "Really! This is lunch on a Disney Cruise. There's children everywhere!"

I think that certainly if someone is very bothered by children, the DCL is probably not the way to go. But, overall, I was very impressed by the behavior of the children I encountered. Much better behavior than I see from many kids around town! I don't think DCL can be held accountable for the behavior of the children or adults on the ship. The only way they could guarantee that guests would not be inconvenienced by unruly children would be to ban children from the ships. That hardly seems Disney like, and certainly would ruin the point of a Disney Cruise.

We loved every magical moment of our trip. When our car left the driveway, I made a point to tell myself that I had the power of the magic. For the two weeks we were gone, we were sure to hit some bumps in the road (travel, fatigue, hot weather, hurricanes, etc.) but that I could choose whether to go with the flow and adventure, or choose to get worried and let that disrupt my fun. We chose the "Hakuna Matata" philosophy and had the most wonderful time of our lives!!!! There was no way I would let how someone else dressed, whether or not they videoed, if they showed up five minutes late for dinner, or hogged all the chairs on Castaway Cay disrupt my vacation. There's too much stuff to worry about at home to worry about other people's (or other people's children's) behavior on vacation.

I understand that there are others who may disagree and I would hate to see anyone have a vacation ruined. That may be a good reason not to choose DCL.

 

[MelissaE1]

Originally posted by jellymoon
When our car left the driveway, I made a point to tell myself that I had the power of the magic. For the two weeks we were gone, we were sure to hit some bumps in the road (travel, fatigue, hot weather, hurricanes, etc.) but that I could choose whether to go with the flow and adventure, or choose to get worried and let that disrupt my fun. We chose the "Hakuna Matata" philosophy and had the most wonderful time of our lives!!!! There was no way I would let how someone else dressed, whether or not they videoed, if they showed up five minutes late for dinner, or hogged all the chairs on Castaway Cay disrupt my vacation. There's too much stuff to worry about at home to worry about other people's (or other people's children's) behavior on vacation.

Well said, jellymoon! I think I'll print that out and take it with me, to remind me that some of the magic depends on me!

 

[Tulirose]

............. For adults, I think Disney is actually better because there are ENFORCED adults only areas where you can escape for some peace and quiet............

............ I went to the adults only pool. When a CM walked by and saw some kids talking to their parents the CM did stop and politely tell the family that it was an adult only area........ I was impressed that the CM even approached the parents and based on the parents reaction I don't know what else the CM could have done except back off.

And that what it comes down to....the parent's attitude!! I have no experience at the Mickey or Goofy pools but I had experience on our first Disney Cruise with an unruly child in the adult pool area and actually in the pool! Mama wanted her swim time and her child did not want to be with the large extended family traveling with them who were at the Mickey Pool.

Leaving out many details (because it will get me angry all over again) the CM who finally arrived could do NOTHING because this mama was NOT leaving until she was good and ready. Oh, she did scream at her approximately 3-year-old to go back to the Mickey pool but he cried louder. What can a CM do in that case? Manually pick up the boy and physically remove him? I think not. And forget about moving her! As I said she didn't leave until she was good and ready and by then my nice relaxing time by the pool had been shot to hell.

Again, IMO, it comes down to PARENTS' RESPONSIBILITY!
Unfortunately, some people don't know how to be responsible parents.

 

[cruisnfamily]

Overall, I did not see a whole lot of unsafe behavior in the pools on our cruise and we spent our fair share of time their with DS6.

The only thing that really bothered me happened in the Goofy pool. The Mickey Pool had been closed (child threw up) so the crowds got larger in the Goofy pool. I was in the pool with DS and his friend (5). There is a lip under the edge of the pool deck recessed back from the pool but still filled with water (does anyone know what I'm talking about? It doesn't quite sound right but I know what I mean). Anyway, children were inserting their little bodies into this gap and sliding around the edge of the pool. It looked rather scary to me and I could imagine a child getting stuck under there and possibly not being able to breathe. I immediately pointed out this unsafe behavior to DS and friend and informed them that they would NOT under any circumstances be doing this. No one was injured but it was a scary thing for me and I just wanted to drag the kids out of there and tell them to find some other place to play. I was in the pool with my two because sitting on the deck, I would not have been able to see into it well enough to supervise them properly. At least you can see into the Mickey Pool!

There were children jumping where they shouldn't have been but nothing horrible.

Back to what has been stated several times on this thread. The parents of these children needed to be supervising their kids! But I see this everywhere....at resort pools for example...kids running(don't their parents know they could fall? )....kids jumping and diving where it is clearly posted that they shouldn't....etc..

Anyway, I think Disney does a good job of supervision but it's not their job as much as it is the parents job I don't think. And, the kids responsible were kids too young to be swimming without parental supervision IMHO.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Disciplining and controlling behavior are the responsibilities of the parents. When you stay at WDW Resorts, and when you visit the WDW Theme Parks, it is not the responsibility there of the CM's to discipline and correct badly behaved children. Neither is it the responsibility of DCL to monitor the children on board the ship and their behavior, either.

I have to say that other than an incident involving teens and illegal drugs on one of my cruises, I have not witnessed out of control or wildly behaving children. I have seen a few playing with the elevators, but nothing that I would feel the need to "report" on.

I, too, enjoy the adult only areas of the ship and appreciate the way DCL has segmented the age groups so everyone can have an enjoyable cruise experience.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, Tulirose

I agree with most of your comments about the kid at the adult pool! What gets me is that, one day an older kid checking in with mom immediately draws a CM.... Another day, there are unruly three year olds in the Adults Only Pool, and the CM does not feel like they can begin to even enforce a basic rule!!! One day, there are no small children allowed in the pools.... Next day, the Mickey pool is shut down three times due to accidents!! NO wonder people think that they, and their kids, can get away with whatever they want.

If I had been that CM at the Adult Pool, with the three year old incident, I would have simply stated, RIGHT AWAY. very unequivically, "Sorry, Ma'am, I have to ask you (as in YOU the PARENT) to remove your child from this area immediately....)" Who would even expect a three year old to remove themselves from their mother! Unbelievable! And, how did the three year old manage to get into the adult pool and swim and become unruly? Definately NOT because there were any attentive CM's around.

Yes, discipline is indeed up to the parents, but enforcement of basic rules should also be up to DCL.

As I mentioned.... All I would expect from DCL is for enforcement of the basic, common sense, rules that probably already exist. No Jumping or Horseplay, No children in adult areas, etc... Unfortunately, based on numerous comments that I have heard, this seems to be too much to ask.

PS: I cannot believe the completely wrong assumptions that have been made on some of these comments.... Nobody has mentioned NOT wanting to being around kids. I LOVE kids! I planned this cruise to bring MY kid.... Just not for him to be harrassed, jumped on, drowned, etc.... And, nobody here has mentioned little things like dress code etc. worrying them or ruining their vacation either... Personally, I could care less about those things! And, of coarse neither does DS Did make one small mention, in parenthesis, just an example of DCL's lack of regard or enforcement of many basic policies.

 

[trishy]

I believe that we are all in agreement that parents are responsible for their own children. However, DCL has a responsibility to their passengers also. If any of my children get injured because of a rule-breaking child (or adult for that matter), I will sue them. As CarolAnnK stated,

DCL has segmented the age groups so everyone can have an enjoyable cruise experience

That's great, but unfortunately some parents don't use these wonderful services. Which leaves kids looking for other avenues of entertainment. Yes, parents should provide this entertainment, but it hasn't happened all the time. Sometimes, the CMs do not enforce the "rules". Here are some examples:
On the 7/7/01 cruise - a group of teens in the "adults-only" spa
On the 7/6/02 cruise - a young boy around 9ish swimming with mom, splashing, diving in the adult pool
On the 7/7 & 7/6 cruise - saw about half a dozen young kids (at various times) sitting on the deck (some had feet in the water...) while mom/dad were swimming in the adult pool
On 7/7 & 7/6 cruise - the jumping & diving into the goofy pool
trampling of the "babies" in the mickey pool by various young kids - 5ish - 8ish
Not pool related:
On the 7/7/01 - prior to Hercules matinee a boy around 9 jumping on his seat, spilling his smoothie (my dh had to track down a cm mainly because he didn't want other passengers thinking this was OUR kid) - Jim reprimanded him, but the boy later heckled the characters during the show - no CM around for that one either.
On the 7/6/02 - A group of older kids (not yet teens though) throwing shoes down the elevator shaft. We witnessed the forward elevator door open on Deck 4 with no elevator, just an empty shaft. Now imagine will you a young child, not paying attention, in a hurry to beat her brother onto the elevator, falling in....
From another thread: a cop wrote that a 4-5ish girl was out alone on the deck at 4 a.m. Being a cop, he thought the parents might be worried and returned her to her stateroom (which she knew right where it was) and the parents ended up berating him for his interference. Security at Guest Services said it wasn't their job. Well, GAWRRSH, who's looking out for that child then? What a shame.
I worked in the commercial insurance industry for many years and have seen a lot. DCL is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Believe me when it happens it will be big.
I would like to see the club/lab not allow sign-out privilege at all. I would like to see kids younger than 13 in the club/lab or with a supervising adult. I would like to see monetary fines for parents who, after 3 repeated offenses of having unsupervised kids around the ship, continue to not supervise their children. here's an example of some readers' eyes right now


edit: corrected the year on the 7/6 ones - should read 7/6/02 (don't know if I missed any)

 

[inkkognito]

In all our Disney cruises, it never ceases to amaze me that many people complain about rule violations, but very few will do anything about it, i.e. report it to a crew member if the CMs do not notice it on their own. If I am in the adult whirlpool or swimming pool and kids try to come in, I first politely but firmly point out that it is an adult area. If this does not work, I simply alert a crew member. I have heard the poor CMs be verbally abused by rude parents, but in the end the children have always been removed. The CMs can't be everywhere, and they don't have eyes in the back of their heads. Help them out by reporting problems...the bar is right by the adult pool, so if you don't see anyone around, simply go over there and say something. Out of 26 cruises the "kid invasions" have never been bad in the adult areas, but when they have occured it has always been handled whenever I reported it...same thing at the adult beach on Castaway Cay. And personally, I think that if people are rude to a CM and refuse to comply, they should be told that Security will be summoned to handle the matter.
Barb
Visit the Platinum Castaway Club at: www.castawayclub.com

 

[chucknrita]

"And personally, I think that if people are rude to a CM and refuse to comply, they should be told that Security will be summoned to handle the matter."

Is there "security" onboard? Forgive me if that's a stupid question as we'll be on DCL for the first time in December. If it's as easy as calling security to handle the matter, why hasn't that been done previously? It's a shame that so-called "adults" lose their manners and common courtesy just because they paid for a cruise - - so did the hundreds of others who are also trying to have a good time, but not at the expense of others!

 

[trishy]

Yes, they have security which is different than a CM.

And yes, either my dh or I summoned a CM to handle these particular situations. In the case of the "kiddy" pools, the CMs needed a few people to complain in order to deal with anything away from the slide, or so it seemed. Our experience with the adult pool was in the evening and there were usually no CMs around. However, we did call down to Guest Services when we got back to our room to notify them of the "breach" - there was no way I'm going to drag my bathing suit-clad rear through the ship to GS! The guy tending the bar is the bartender - don't know if it's his job to kick the kids out, but I'll ask them if it happens on the next cruise. As far as the elevator, we were at Preludes at the time so the woman handling the register had to step out and try to locate someone immediately about the elevator door. It was discovered by maintenance that some kids were throwing shoes down the shaft. Now you can't convince me that these parents didn't know the kid's shoes were missing when they packed to leave. During Hercules, Jim the entertainment guy came to talk to the kid about jumping (after my dh asked him to). As soon as the show started, the kid was rude again during the entire show. Bottom line is it's my job as a DCL customer to enjoy my vacation. It's DCL's job to ensure every guest is enjoying their vacation. I am not a hired employee of DCL and feel it is not my job to police the ship. I am only writing in conjunction with my personal experiences to not only let other passengers know what to expect, but to let them know they are not alone in their observations of such behavior. I hope that in doing so, we can help make a positive change on DCL to ensure better enforcement/policing for the enjoyment of all passengers. It's nice to have an outlet to share ideas on how to deal with these situations. I agree that security needs to be summoned in cases of rude adults. Some hairy situations can occur when dealing with angry parents - one of the reasons I don't want to deal directly with them. Beefing up security? Costly. Changing the sign out policy of the club/lab? Not nearly as costly in the long-run.

 

[jellymoon]

Where were the parents of the nine year old at the Hercules show?

 

[Wishing on a star]

Quote:
- And personally, I think that if people are rude to a CM and refuse to comply, they should be told that Security will be summoned to handle the matter."

Is there security??? In ALL of the time and research that I have done on planning my cruise, including this thread, and others, not once have I ever seen 'Security' mentioned.... I was almost to the assumption that there is none on DCL. Far be it from paying cruise passengers like myself to expect DCL to provide basic security!!! Jeeesh....

About alerting CM's... From what I have been reading, about half the time, there are none around!!! The exact same posters that are saying that it is not DCL's job to provide any rule enforcement or discipline are some of the ones ones thinking - Go find a DCL CM.... again, Jeeesh....

I also have to very strongly agree with those who say that, as a paying DCL cruise passenger, it should NOT be expected of me to police other children, drag my soaking wet bikini clad body halfway across the ship looking for a CM who actually 'gives a darn' about rule enforcement. again, Jeeesh... (Well said, Trishy!!!)

And, why should we expect a CM to go out on a limb in these types of situation.... I wouldn't want to get into any 'hairy' situations with angry, drunk, irresponsible, adults either, NOT without 'Security' to back me up!!

In the incident of very young children roaming the ship alone.... Where I come from, that is child neglect... I personally would have Child and Family Services waiting to take custody of that child upon return to the U.S.!!

Quote:
hope that in doing so, we can help make a positive change on DCL to ensure better enforcement/policing for the enjoyment of all passengers. It's nice to have an outlet to share ideas on how to deal with these situations. I agree that security needs to be summoned in cases of rude adults. Some hairy situations can occur when dealing with angry parents - one of the reasons I don't want to deal directly with them. Beefing up security? Costly. Changing the sign out policy of the club/lab? Not nearly as costly in the long-run.
Again: Well said Trishy!!! WELL SAID!!!

Also, one other thought here that kind of bugs me.... I appreciate others trying to make nice comments, such as - I have not witnessed these problems..... However, This does NOT mean that these problems do not exist! Are you folks reading these posts!!! And, I almost feel this is a little rude, and unrespectful to those on the boards who HAVE seen these problems! We only want to insure a better and safer cruise experience to ALL DCL cruisers!!!!

 

[Aly]

From another thread: a cop wrote that a 4-5ish girl was out alone on the deck at 4 a.m. Being a cop, he thought the parents might be worried and returned her to her stateroom (which she knew right where it was) and the parents ended up berating him for his interference. Security at Guest Services said it wasn't their job. Well, GAWRRSH, who's looking out for that child then? What a shame.

That really is a shame and that is why I think agree with all of you that it is the parents responsibility, but it is also DCL's responsbility. We did pay money to go on this cruise(as did everyone else) BUT I would rather not leave with a broken leg or arm because of someone's carelessness. That is where the cm's come in they should at least TRY to explain to the parents of rowdy children that sometihng like injuries could happen if the behavior continues. I try to ignore the people who think the rules don't aply to them,BUT at the same time I try to make sure that they don't get to the point where it could (seriously)affect my family and me."I PAID ALL THIS MONEY SO MY KID CAN DO WHAT HE/SHE WANTS"Well if the parnet acts that way I would just explain to them I piad money too,and I also would like to have a nice time. Real simple and then walk away.nothing more to be said.This may come off as rude,but think of it as just letting them know that you would also like to enjoy your vacation as much as them(only in a different way) I would like to see the club/lab not allow sign-out privilege at all. I would like to see kids younger than 13 in the club/lab or with a supervising adult. Not trying to be rude but this too is the parents responsibility. The parents should be able to write down that it is alright with them if there child leaves the club /lab.well this is all just my opinion.

~*ALY*~

 

[DISNEYGATOR]

Coming from a cast member, who works out in the parks everyday, and sees lots of stuff... there are a lot of really good behavior and good parenting, and a lot of bad behavior and bad parenting. Unfortunately the bad behavior/bad parenting is a lot more noticable because it is loud and disruptive. And that is just how life is, whether you are at WDW, on DCL, at the mall, at church, the movies, or the grocery store.

It is just a lesson and a reminder that you REALLY are doing the RIGHT thing, even if it is difficult, and even when you feel guilty to say no, or to repremand your child... in the end the results pay off! I just think, and this is my own personal opinion, that as parents spend more time at work, more time at leisure (TV, computer, etc) that means less time parenting. And as kids spend more time in front of the TV, on the computer, etc it means less time with your parents, more chance of getting bad influence, and a less sense of right and wrong, reality, and consequences.

Also, those consequence lessons have to come from a parent--a cast member telling a child to "please stop running on the pool deck" might get the child to stop running for two seconds, but if that mom or dad isn't right there to back that cast member up, or has never taught a child to obey rules, then it is all for null. I am not defending a cast member who did not act when they should have--safety should ALWAYS be first, but it is difficult line to cross sometimes for a cast members. You don't want to over-step and do the "parenting," you are concerned about being yelled at, or getting an ear-full, and at the same time you know you have to balance your responsibilities.

Also, there is little recogonition for doing those little things, and sometimes cast member will become lethargic about their role. Is that good, NO!!!! So, coming from a cast member, the best thing for you to do is to tell someone in management, go to guest relations and voice your concern, that way that lethargic cast member has reprocutions for their lack of attention from management. I am sure half the time, the cast member at the pool figures.. well no one is complaining, so why should I "bother" these guests when it might mean I will get yelled at or be put into a difficult situation. Is this the right choice? NO!!! but remember, they are human, and after day in and day out, occasionally their job does get dull, and having to "yell" and discipline children isn't the most fun or easy thing to do. A lot of CM's are also trying to be curtious, and even though they should be telling these kids to behave, it goes against that " I should be nice to everyone" idea. Again, not the right choice, since safety should be first, it's just a different perspective of sorts. And if no one tells them that they are making the wrong choice, or reminds them the importance of making it, what is going to influence them to change? I feel bad their are mistakes out there, and as a CM I apologize... no CM wants to hear about them, but please please politely tell us when we are making them, and let the proper people know as well--managers, guest relations--and it is even more helpful to be constructive and specific as possible--that way they have feedback to work on, rather then just a flame to put out--with all the fire, often times the point is lost, and there are great CM's who really want to correct these situations, they just have to get your message first!

But in the end cast members can really only do so much. It's up to the parents, and unfortunately the kids that need the parenting.. usually don't have parents around to give it to them.

 

[disvaclub92]

Jellymoon,

I was on the 9/28 cruise. The kids that were climbing on the slide when it were closed were being videotaped by their mother who thought that it was so cute.

My six and four year old DG were over there yelling at the kids telling them not to do it. It is a shame that people just let their kids run ragged all over the ship. I even got stuck in "elevator tag" lucky me.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Trishy, just an idea on how to implement your, initially 'shocking' monetary fine idea....

If a child is found, unsupervised, and is deemed necessary to be placed under DCL supervision.... DCL will take the child in... and parents will be accessed a rate of $$$$$$ per hour for child-care charges.

Might encourage some parents to make sure their kids keep out of trouble!!!