JTA for a "violent" child?

[anniemae]

I would not allow this child to do this. He is not ready. Clearly this would be a mistake. Does not matter how much he loves Star Wars or how much he wants to do it, it is just not right to allow him to participate.

 

[Hrhpd]

He does aim to hurt the bad guy. He would not go after the other kids or the good guys. Its Darth I am worried about. He is very into superheroes and star wars and other violent characters. Evil must be destroyed type genre. He is not allowed to watch television so the destructive knowledge is solely from his books. Kid has a very good imagination! When playing with him in a physical way he often has to be reminded to be gentle or to calm down, if he has assigned you the role of a bad guy. Its like he doesn't remember that you are you and not the joker or shredder or a sith or whatever bad guy. I have never actually stopped to watch JTA, so I am not sure how it works. But yeah, I think it is best if we skip it this trip. It is his first trip so he should be overwhelmed by the amount of things going on and not missing out on becoming a jedi. Star Wars is a new fascination. He just moved past Ninja Turtles.

Oh hell no. And I will go one farther to say that any 5 year old that cannot tell the difference between reality and make believe and purposely tries to hurt others and has not been assessed yet, needs to be asap. Aiming to purposely hurt others, even in the name of make believe, is not normal and is not just a very good imagination.

Glad to see that Aunt Raenstoirm has a good head on her shoulders and will skip JTA this trip.

 

[tlmadden73]

I disagree with some of the other posters here. A lot of children (boys especially) can get "violent" with toy swords and such. They simply don't know their own strength yet or just don't realize how much they are hurting the other person. (I mean, how many times have you (as an adult) given a "playful" punch to a friend and it REALLY hurt them?).

Not knowing the child personally, I still think it may be good for him.

Children sometimes take instruction from strangers sometimes better than their parents. You may be suprised at how well he will listen to the jedi trainer, especially if they let them know the consequences of not following instrutions. It will be good for them to see what fun can happen IF they follow instructions properly.

If he does get violent and has to get escorted off the stage .. I think it will be a valuable lesson BURNED into his memory for a long time to come.

Either way, it is the parents decision.
I have seen the show MANY times and have never seen a child get too rough with the bad guys.
(Though I did see a child pledge his allegience to Darth Vader once!)

 

[wilkeliza]

I disagree with some of the other posters here. A lot of children (boys especially) can get "violent" with toy swords and such. They simply don't know their own strength yet or just don't realize how much they are hurting the other person. (I mean, how many times have you (as an adult) given a "playful" punch to a friend and it REALLY hurt them?).

Not knowing the child personally, I still think it may be good for him.

Children sometimes take instruction from strangers sometimes better than their parents. You may be suprised at how well he will listen to the jedi trainer, especially if they let them know the consequences of not following instrutions. It will be good for them to see what fun can happen IF they follow instructions properly.

If he does get violent and has to get escorted off the stage .. I think it will be a valuable lesson BURNED into his memory for a long time to come.

Either way, it is the parents decision.
I have seen the show MANY times and have never seen a child get too rough with the bad guys.
(Though I did see a child pledge his allegience to Darth Vader once!)

I agree. It is possible once he gets to Vadar he could be so big and scary that the 5 year old won't even take out his light saber! I've seen that happen too. I think the difference here to what the OP is describing is that this is scripted play. If he follows instructions then he should be fine. It is more the typical rough housing boys who also can't listen to instructions that have issues not the ones who have to be reminded to play gently as our version of gentle can be very different than a child's.

 

[Turn the Page]

I agree. It is possible once he gets to Vadar he could be so big and scary that the 5 year old won't even take out his light saber! I've seen that happen too. I think the difference here to what the OP is describing is that this is scripted play. If he follows instructions then he should be fine. It is more the typical rough housing boys who also can't listen to instructions that have issues not the ones who have to be reminded to play gently as our version of gentle can be very different than a child's.

What is the difference between a rough housing boy and one who needs to be reminded to play gently?

 

[wilkeliza]

What is the difference between a rough housing boy and one who needs to be reminded to play gently?

I said the difference is really one who listens and one who doesn't. If you have a rough houser who does not listen when he is reminded to play a little more gently then this is not a good fit but if you have a boy who can get super excited but then snaps back to reality when he is reminded to be gentler then I say it is worth a shot. If they can follow the rules of the game then they can play even if a little rough because the rules of this game is no hitting other padawans and to only do the moves you are taught. So even if they get a little rough in those moves it shouldn't hurt either bad guy offered. They should always strike his light saber and at worst disarm him. Now if it is a child (boy or girl) who plays rough and doesn't listen or follow rules of games then they aren't ready as you might worry about them going off script and being rough.

 

[Turn the Page]

I said the difference is really one who listens and one who doesn't. If you have a rough houser who does not listen when he is reminded to play a little more gently then this is not a good fit but if you have a boy who can get super excited but then snaps back to reality when he is reminded to be gentler then I say it is worth a shot. If they can follow the rules of the game then they can play even if a little rough because the rules of this game is no hitting other padawans and to only do the moves you are taught. So even if they get a little rough in those moves it shouldn't hurt either bad guy offered. They should always strike his light saber and at worst disarm him. Now if it is a child (boy or girl) who plays rough and doesn't listen or follow rules of games then they aren't ready as you might worry about them going off script and being rough.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Magpie]

In this thread - folks who are awfully quick to label a little boy as disturbed/needing professional assessment and accuse his parents of poor parenting decisions, based on their interpretation of a couple of lines of text!

Five year olds, both boys and girls, can be highly excitable and impulsive. They have lots of energy. They get very much "into" their role play and they don't know their own strength. Heck, they're growing quickly and don't even fully understand how their own bodies work yet! It's very normal for them to appear to "forget" the difference between pretend and reality.

My own daughter (now 19) was about five when she decided on a group outing that she wasn't a sweet little girl, she was, in fact, a baby lamb. She crawled everywhere, baaing. We left in shame, after she BIT her brother, right on top of his head. (Apparently little girls don't bite, but lambs do.) Best part... it was a science museum get together for gifted children.

Without meeting the child and spending time working with him, I personally could not say anything about how "normal" he is. Statistically speaking, though, he's almost certainly a perfectly average five year old. However, it seems the OP has decided he's not ready for JTA yet, and I'm glad to hear it. As others in this thread have said, we should always try to set our kids up for success, whenever possible. Small successes build, one on another, and heck... the OP can even use the JTA as a goal, as they work with the kid to teach him to play more gently. If he's not ready this year, he likely will be by next year!

Source: I work with kids, usually a bit older, but sometimes 5 year olds, too.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

I disagree with some of the other posters here. A lot of children (boys especially) can get "violent" with toy swords and such. They simply don't know their own strength yet or just don't realize how much they are hurting the other person. (I mean, how many times have you (as an adult) given a "playful" punch to a friend and it REALLY hurt them?).

There is a HUGE difference between a child who accidentally gets too rough and hurts someone and what the OP is describing. She says this child starts out with the intent to hurt people. That is NOT normal and should be addressed. Getting carried away and hitting too hard is normal and shoudl still be corrected, but isn't the same red flag as setting out with the intent to deliberately injure someone.

 

[Magpie]

There is a HUGE difference between a child who accidentally gets too rough and hurts someone and what the OP is describing. She says this child starts out with the intent to hurt people. That is NOT normal and should be addressed. Getting carried away and hitting too hard is normal and shoudl still be corrected, but isn't the same red flag as setting out with the intent to deliberately injure someone.

Actually, the OP clarified...

"He does aim to hurt the bad guy. He would not go after the other kids or the good guys. Its Darth I am worried about. He is very into superheroes and star wars and other violent characters. Evil must be destroyed type genre. He is not allowed to watch television so the destructive knowledge is solely from his books. Kid has a very good imagination! When playing with him in a physical way he often has to be reminded to be gentle or to calm down, if he has assigned you the role of a bad guy. Its like he doesn't remember that you are you and not the joker or shredder or a sith or whatever bad guy."

The child likely does not have "intent to hurt people". He simply gets overexcited and plays rough, like many normal 5yos. He's almost certainly not a psychopath/sadist/whatever else you consider "NOT normal".

(Though, personally, as someone who enjoys vacationing without children in a place most people think is "for the kids", I think "normal" is highly overrated. )

 

[mshanson3121]

I have been watching this thread for a couple of days and agree with the pp's who say it sounds like he isn't ready.

I realize this isn't your child so there really isn't much you can do about it but if the child has problems with aggression why on earth is he allowed to read books that feed into it? And why is everyone condoning the behavior by continuing to play rough with him at all?

EXACTLY! Our son has a sensory disorder, and he feeds off stuff and used to get out of control easily at that age (though he NEVER intentionally aimed to hurt someone), and there were a couple video games that really seemed to exacerbate this for some reason. So we took them away completely, until he was able to show us that he could handle them again. If something perpetuates that type of behavior, you take it away until they can learn to control themselves!

 

[Hrhpd]

In this thread - folks who are awfully quick to label a little boy as disturbed/needing professional assessment and accuse his parents of poor parenting decisions, based on their interpretation of a couple of lines of text!

Five year olds, both boys and girls, can be highly excitable and impulsive. They have lots of energy. They get very much "into" their role play and they don't know their own strength. Heck, they're growing quickly and don't even fully understand how their own bodies work yet! It's very normal for them to appear to "forget" the difference between pretend and reality.

My own daughter (now 19) was about five when she decided on a group outing that she wasn't a sweet little girl, she was, in fact, a baby lamb. She crawled everywhere, baaing. We left in shame, after she BIT her brother, right on top of his head. (Apparently little girls don't bite, but lambs do.) Best part... it was a science museum get together for gifted children.

Without meeting the child and spending time working with him, I personally could not say anything about how "normal" he is. Statistically speaking, though, he's almost certainly a perfectly average five year old. However, it seems the OP has decided he's not ready for JTA yet, and I'm glad to hear it. As others in this thread have said, we should always try to set our kids up for success, whenever possible. Small successes build, one on another, and heck... the OP can even use the JTA as a goal, as they work with the kid to teach him to play more gently. If he's not ready this year, he likely will be by next year!

Source: I work with kids, usually a bit older, but sometimes 5 year olds, too.

Big, big difference between a child playing that doesn't know his own strength and a child who is aiming to hurt people., even if it is just the bad guy. Op said that he loses the sense of reality and forgets that you are you, only that you are the bad guy that needs to be destroyed.

 

[Magpie]

Big, big difference between a child playing that doesn't know his own strength and a child who is aiming to hurt people., even if it is just the bad guy. Op said that he loses the sense of reality and forgets that you are you, only that you are the bad guy that needs to be destroyed.

So do LOTS of children. The ability to completely immerse oneself in a fantasy is core to early childhood. When we're not getting whacked by a plastic light saber, we usually encourage and celebrate it.

The child is not torturing small animals. He's pretending to be a good guy, protecting the innocent, battling evil.

Plus, as I said earlier, I'm loathe to diagnose a child on the basis of a single post. I'm quite sure the OP is regretting her use of terms like "violent" and "aiming to hurt".

 

[Love Tink]

EXACTLY! Our son has a sensory disorder, and he feeds off stuff and used to get out of control easily at that age (though he NEVER intentionally aimed to hurt someone), and there were a couple video games that really seemed to exacerbate this for some reason. So we took them away completely, until he was able to show us that he could handle them again. If something perpetuates that type of behavior, you take it away until they can learn to control themselves!

I often wonder about people who act as if parenting is a set of black and white choices, and the way they do things, or the way things work for their children is THE ONLY WAY.

If a child is having trouble with self control, one answer is yours: remove everything that tempts self control. Another answer is mine: continue allowing the stimulus and continue reminding them how to handle it until eventually they can.

In my opinion, simply removing anything that overstimulates your child and pretending it doesn't exist is akin to people who won't discuss sex/drugs/alcohol/smoking with their kids. Eventually, these people grow up and have to learn how to handle things for themselves.

This kid sounds like a typical 5-year-old boy to me, albeit maybe one with a little extra imagination or a little self control problem (maybe AD/HD or sensory). It also sounds like an aunt who maybe isn't around kids enough to know that a 50-pound kid who knows he can't really hurt an adult might "attack" adults for fun. It isn't that big a deal and it doesn't make him a psychopath who is going to turn and start beating the other kids on stage. Jeez.

 

[Angel Ariel]

If a child is having trouble with self control, one answer is yours: remove everything that tempts self control. Another answer is mine: continue allowing the stimulus and continue reminding them how to handle it until eventually they can.

In my opinion, simply removing anything that overstimulates your child and pretending it doesn't exist is akin to people who won't discuss sex/drugs/alcohol/smoking with their kids. Eventually, these people grow up and have to learn how to handle things for themselves.

With all due respect to both you and the poster you quoted, when a child has a sensory disorder (as the person you quoted does), it is different than just having a child who lacks self control (as most typical 5 year olds do). When dealing with a medical disorder like a sensory disorder, removing the overstimulus is *not* akin not discussing sex/drugs/alcohol/smoking with kids. Reducing a medical disorder to that is just as much of a problem as seeing parenting choices in black and white as you described.

 

[Magpie]

With all due respect to both you and the poster you quoted, when a child has a sensory disorder (as the person you quoted does), it is different than just having a child who lacks self control (as most typical 5 year olds do). When dealing with a medical disorder like a sensory disorder, removing the overstimulus is *not* akin not discussing sex/drugs/alcohol/smoking with kids. Reducing a medical disorder to that is just as much of a problem as seeing parenting choices in black and white as you described.

To be fair, I can see both sides. You're absolutely right. A medical disorder is not just "trouble with self control". But, on the other hand, criticizing a parent for not treating their child as if he has a medical disorder, when he may very well not, is not fair either.

No one here knows how well the OP's nephew is, or isn't, being parented. Or what disorders he may, or may not, have. But saying he shouldn't be allowed to read his Star Wars books because he sometimes gets carried away while playing with adults and has to be corrected... that's not really anyone's call but his parents'. For this particular child, the answer may indeed be as Love Tink says - allow the stimulus and coach him on how to handle it. Or it may be as mshanson3121 says, ban the books until he's demonstrated more prosocial behaviour in his play. There's no way for us to know, without knowing the child.

And the OP can choose for themselves whether or not getting the kid wound up and then handing him a plastic light saber is a good idea.

At five, my son liked to pretend to dismember, prepare and cook his sister's baby dolls in my pots. Since his sister didn't mind (she liked using her big book of Children's Medical Symptoms to diagnose the dolls with things like malaria and diphtheria and pretend they were dying anyway), I didn't interfere with his play. He's now an adult, and still likes to cook, but has never - to my knowledge - cooked an actual baby.


Edited to add: I just told my son what I wrote about him. He said, deadpan, "Don't check the shed."

 

[Planogirl]

I wouldn't diagnose this child either but I also wouldn't allow him to learn self control when interacting with others. I would have to be present to help control the situation or it just wouldn't happen.

Different strokes.

 

[Angel Ariel]

To be fair, I can see both sides. You're absolutely right. A medical disorder is not just "trouble with self control". But, on the other hand, criticizing a parent for not treating their child as if he has a medical disorder, when he may very well not, is not fair either.

I thought I worded it to be clear..I guess not..sorry! I agree with this That's what I was trying to get at with the "all due respect to both sides" part of my post

 

[Angel Ariel]

I wouldn't diagnose this child either but I also wouldn't allow him to learn self control when interacting with others. I would have to be present to help control the situation or it just wouldn't happen.

Different strokes.

I also agree with this. While the answer for this particular child may not be total removal of the stimulus, it also doesn't mean inserting the child into a situation where others will be affected by his potential actions (for ex, that the entire show can get cancelled for all younglings if a child is too rough with the character) is the best idea either. The OP has apparently decided it isn't a necessity for her nephew on this trip. I think she knows her nephew, and all the dynamics of the situation, better than anyone here.

 

[PetePanMan]

My question is whether the parents of the kid actually agree that he is "violent" and "aims to hurt" or just a kid who plays rough and gets a bit carried away at times (or in other words, a pretty normal 5 year old boy).

Perhaps bucking the trend on this thread but let's also put things in perspective here...the light sabers aren't real, parents would be right there etc.