Jon & Kate + Eight Debate

[ilandrazdsw]

I think that's what bugs me the most about her.... that's not normal. She seems brainwashed. I would like to see her lose her cool just once... just a little bit (I'd also like to see her get irritated with her husband a little bit - I think it's wonderful that they have such a strong marriage; I'm just not sure that Michelle Duggar gets much say in anything).

If she is brainwashed, sign me up! I would much rather be brainwashed and be "happy" all the time then yell at my kids (especially during homework time). I hate when I fly off the handle, and I do, no matter how much I try not to. Dh and I have a strong marriage, but honestly I wouldn't mind at all if he were to take of balancing the checkbooks and be the final decision on many occasions. (I think Michelle does get a say, just they talk about stuff and come to a mutual agreement.) If anyone finds out where to get the happy time from, let me know!

 

[tam626]

I saw the previews too & just can't figure out what is going to happen. I still like the show. Yes, Kate is bossy & OCD but Jon did'nt seem too helpful in the beginning. Now it seems like he takes care of the kids more than she does. I can't say much because I need to nag my dh to get stuff done, he's just the type to procrastinate & Jon reminds me of him. I do think Kate has changed for the worse. When you look at previous episodes, she seemed happier. As far as Jon & some college girls, when would he have time? He always has the kids. I guess we will see on Monday.

 

[mom2meiko]

i have a feeling it is marital issues - but i hope they will be getting some counseling and working out their issues rather than going directly to divorce. keeping my fingers crossed!!!

 

[momxx5]

While there are tons of things bad, and a few good things I could say about the show...I'll spare y'all my soap box rant.

As a mom of 5 kids I do know the stresses.

I think the finale is going to be about the dogs. That is so sad. First off I don't think that they should have gotten such large dogs...I think that was probably Jon's dream. No offense at all to large dogs, we have a med mix breed lab. We love him.

I just think give Kate's personality that she would have done better with small dogs.

I really do not understand how people can give animals back? I was outvoted 6-1 in this house about getting cats. Mind you they were "offered" by DH's boss's elderly mom and thought 2 kittens would be perfect for our 2 girls. And the cats are actually cool, very social, are always in the same room as us, cuddle with girls at bed time, etc. I personally do not like cats and I am able to co-exist with them (even cuddle when no one is looking). I think I need therapy.

Our neighbors have had at least 6 dogs in a matter of 7 yrs that they have lived across from us. The dogs don't get along with the kids, its too much work, they were getting difficult, Sally was having a hard time, etc. So many excuses I cannot even recall them all. Each time they gave them back. Then a few months later.....2 more dogs. They always seem to get them in pairs. I just think the whole thing is crazy and cannot image explaining it all to the kids like the animals are disposable. There maybe something I don't know, I just go by what I see.

So all that said, I think if the Gosslins are giving the dogs back that is not a good message to send, and I'm sure the kids were attached to them. I can image the mental harm the kids go through giving pets back, even worse than their OCD mom.

It should be interesting.

My DD(10) watches the show everyday at 5:00, my younger DD doesn't like it so she have a fit, I watch simply to see what kind of meltdown Kate will have or what kind of whipping Jon will take.

 

[Disney*Dreamer]

More trouble coming, could she be pregnant? I only recently started watching this, so forgive me if she is fixed and I didn't know.

She has Poly Cystic Ovaries, so do I. (Which is why I started watching the show) It is a hormonal problem, and not to defend her, but that is where alot of her outbusrts come from. It is literally like being in constant menopause. You really have to learn to control yourself and your anger, attitude, etc. She really needs to be on birth control, not for the actual birth control, because women with PCOS are more likely to get pregnant on it, but for the horomones to regulate herself (not her period, but her behavior). Mine has helped me a ton. I used to have outbursts like her, and now that I am on birth control, mine is completely controlled, I feel like a new woman. I feel a LOT better. I think this would greatly improve the quality of her life. Not all women with PCOS have this problem, or will admit to having it, but it is part of it.

 

[jms531]

I wouldn't, certainly not to the degree they have taken advantage of their children.

Bottom line it's not my children's responsibility to house me, clothe me, feed me, and financially support me. Child actors now have very specific laws that protect them from becoming the workhorse that supports their parents lavish lifestyle and then when they grow up there is little left for *them*, that *they* earned.

Children on reality t.v. shows have no such protection. Which means their parents are free to take every dime earned from that show and spend it on whatever they want (like million dollar homes). And what happens when the sextuplets are old enough that they're no longer "interesting" t.v. any more and the show is canceled? What happens when the book deals and the speaking engagements slow down? When you are spending money at the clip they are, then you are literally depending on your fame as the parents of sextuplets to support you. Property taxes in PA aren't cheap, what is the fallback to sustain their lifestyle when they can't get it off the backs of their children's fame? How much of their children's right to privacy been stripped for their parents right to be opportunistic and make money?

There are many, MANY families of higher order multiples who choose to protect their children's right to some semblance of privacy and a normal life versus hawking them out to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that's willing to pay a buck. The septuplet family that has lead a low profile. There is a family in the U.K. with Octuplets. There are NUMEROUS families of sextuplets and quints that don't sell their children out to the media. I know a family with the only set of quintuplets in our state, who also have three other children. They have 8 just like J&K and their quints are 4 year old. Mom stays at home and Dad works and they scrape by.

There are some things in life worth a lot more than money. Integrity is certainly one. I can see have a television special here and there, and accepting offers for trips or things that you otherwise could not have afforded to give *TO YOUR CHILDREN*. But when it becomes a way of supporting *YOURSELF AND YOUR SPOUSE*, and affording things for *YOURSELF* that you couldn't otherwise get if you didn't sell out your children then I'm sorry, I see very little integrity in that.

Just one mom's humble opinion.

I'm pretty sure nobody is aware of their financial situation. The million dollar house-while it is beautiful-is not extravagent (i.e. decorating, finishes, etc). With 10 people in a family, a large house is almost a necessity. It's a large house that, in my opinion, was needed for a family of 10. I would have been more concerned for the children if they DIDN'T move into a larger house.
Secondly, this spending that you speak off-while they have expensive clothes, medical procedures, vacations etc. they don't pay for half of it. I would have to imagine that J&K have less debt than the average 4 person family. Also, Kate is still as frugal as ever! As J&K stood in their "million dollar house" K was still concerned about a coupon J neglected to use. I know if I was banking as much as they are I wouldn't be cutting coupons anymore.

 

[tam626]

More trouble coming, could she be pregnant? I only recently started watching this, so forgive me if she is fixed and I didn't know.

She has Poly Cystic Ovaries, so do I. (Which is why I started watching the show) It is a hormonal problem, and not to defend her, but that is where alot of her outbusrts come from. It is literally like being in constant menopause. You really have to learn to control yourself and your anger, attitude, etc. She really needs to be on birth control, not for the actual birth control, because women with PCOS are more likely to get pregnant on it, but for the horomones to regulate herself (not her period, but her behavior). Mine has helped me a ton. I used to have outbursts like her, and now that I am on birth control, mine is completely controlled, I feel like a new woman. I feel a LOT better. I think this would greatly improve the quality of her life. Not all women with PCOS have this problem, or will admit to having it, but it is part of it.

Thank you for this insight. I never knew that.

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

It's not financial.

I don't think they are cancelling the show because there are reports on other forums that they have been seen around recently with cameras.

There has also been some speculation that Jon and Kate have been separated for some time now, just after the holidays, where Kate has been at home and Jon stays at his Mom's. They will explain what has been going on and Jon will be shown moving back in.

I think however, even if the previous theory is true, they would not publicize any divorce or separation. It might be something smaller like Jon will critically nag Kate about coupons, or they will be getting rid of the puppies.

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

I'm pretty sure nobody is aware of their financial situation. The million dollar house-while it is beautiful-is not extravagent (i.e. decorating, finishes, etc). With 10 people in a family, a large house is almost a necessity. It's a large house that, in my opinion, was needed for a family of 10. I would have been more concerned for the children if they DIDN'T move into a larger house.
Secondly, this spending that you speak off-while they have expensive clothes, medical procedures, vacations etc. they don't pay for half of it. I would have to imagine that J&K have less debt than the average 4 person family. Also, Kate is still as frugal as ever! As J&K stood in their "million dollar house" K was still concerned about a coupon J neglected to use. I know if I was banking as much as they are I wouldn't be cutting coupons anymore.

I completely agree. Any wodner why the sextuplets are always sporting the latest Gymboree line, Wii, Wii Music, Planet Earth, or why Kate has a new pair of washers and a new pair of dryers? Trips to... Phillies games, WDW, Sesame Street park and show, Hershey world, etc... they get all of this for free to promote where they are going, what they are using.

 

[emmababy]

Don't hate the playa.....hate the game!

 

[rjthkids]

That really makes me sad about the Duggars but I can't imagine a camera crew not wanting to film that....talk about ratings...that's the bottom line for them most times, like supernanny with the abuser.

I cannot imagine switching a baby! Holy cow.

Trish

She would never do it with a camera crew sitting there, the emphasis is always on correction being done with privacy and how much you risk by letting your discipline views be made public. ATI is quite secretive in that regard, Michael Pearl followers a little less so but they still stress the privacy aspect of it. The camera crews aren't around 24/7, so I imagine she deals with "correction" when they're not around to film, although I wonder how she deals with issues that need immediate correcting because you are supposed to correct most things immediately.

Do a google search on Bill Gothard and parenting methods and it's quite an eye opener. It really is a whole sub-culture and the Duggars are poster children for Gothard.

As for J&K "needing" a million dollar house because they have 10 people, I completely disagree. We're soon to be a household of eight and we live in a 2500 square foot house and we certainly don't "need" anything bigger. We could easily fit 10 people in this house without a need for anything bigger.

But you are right that we have no idea what their financial situation is like, or how much of their show proceeds are being saved. I still believe they are exploiting their children. They are depending upon their children to support them and their lifestyle and I do not believe it is a child's job to support their parents when they're preschoolers. I just don't. Their children are being forced to give up the complete right to any shred of privacy over their lives. Poor Maddy, well known all over the TLC universe as a big "brat" gets to grow up with that image of her spread to millions of people so her parents can make money. No other parents of higher order multiples have exploited their children for financial gain the way these two have. Plenty other families of higher order multiples have chosen to forgo million dollar homes and free plastic surgery so that their children can grow up without being hawked out for cash. And I'm with them. In no way would I let my children's private lives be shredded the way they have done to their children, not for all the money in the world. And considering most parents of higher order multiples have also chosen to retain their children's dignity, I don't think having higher order multiples in *any* way means it is automatically necessary to air every embarrassing moment of your children's life to gain a buck.

I don't think they're horrible, evil people. I don't know them to make any kind of judgment like that and I wish them well. But I don't subscribe to those kind of ethics at all and I would never sell out my children's dignity, not for all the cash and million dollar homes in the world. There are very few real *NEEDS* in life. They in no way *needed* to do this.

 

[princessmom29]

I feel like if I watch this show, then I am an accomplice to child abuse..I refuse to watch this..I hope that some of this is not true, but considering the diversity in our culture, odds are there are some groups of people out there who use these methods to "discipline" their children. Discipline, disciple...see a resemblance? Scary....

I feel the same way. I get so angry anyway when I watch it that there is no point. I just feel so bad for all of those little children being taught at act like robots. It is truly an awful life wrapped in a very "happy family everything is great" package.

 

[rjthkids]

I completely agree. Any wodner why the sextuplets are always sporting the latest Gymboree line, Wii, Wii Music, Planet Earth, or why Kate has a new pair of washers and a new pair of dryers? Trips to... Phillies games, WDW, Sesame Street park and show, Hershey world, etc... they get all of this for free to promote where they are going, what they are using.

I agree. The question is, is the latest clothes and theme park trips worth having your children picked apart for spectator entertainment? If you were reading all these comments about what a "brat" your daughter was and is widely perceived by a viewing audience of millions, would you be o.k. with putting her out there again and again just to get a bunch of free stuff?

I don't even watch the show. I refuse to watch it and yet in casual conversation at a park with a bunch of moms or in other contexts and settings I hear about this family and their children.

Jon and Kate can make the choice to put themselves out there on reality T.V. They're grown ups and they can decide how much gossip and public bashing they're willing to put up with in order to rake in cash. So can older children, like those on Big People, Small World. But these are small children who get no say in how much of their personal, private lives get shared with the entire world, and they have parents who demonstrate zero discretion about what get shared about their children.

A child's entire childhood should not be a spectator sport. While drastically different from the Canadian quintuplets who got taken from their parents and stuck behind glass for public viewing, the complete lack of privacy in their lives is really eerily similar.

 

[blissventure]

I agree. The question is, is the latest clothes and theme park trips worth having your children picked apart for spectator entertainment? If you were reading all these comments about what a "brat" your daughter was and is widely perceived by a viewing audience of millions, would you be o.k. with putting her out there again and again just to get a bunch of free stuff?

I don't even watch the show. I refuse to watch it and yet in casual conversation at a park with a bunch of moms or in other contexts and settings I hear about this family and their children.

Jon and Kate can make the choice to put themselves out there on reality T.V. They're grown ups and they can decide how much gossip and public bashing they're willing to put up with in order to rake in cash. So can older children, like those on Big People, Small World. But these are small children who get no say in how much of their personal, private lives get shared with the entire world, and they have parents who demonstrate zero discretion about what get shared about their children.

A child's entire childhood should not be a spectator sport. While drastically different from the Canadian quintuplets who got taken from their parents and stuck behind glass for public viewing, the complete lack of privacy in their lives is really eerily similar.

I occasionally watch, and then remember (as I cringe) why I usually don't. Once day the kids are going to google themselves. I agree completely with the above poster's wise words:
"But these are small children who get no say in how much of their personal, private lives get shared with the entire world, and they have parents who demonstrate zero discretion about what get shared about their children.
A child's entire childhood should not be a spectator sport.

They're not going to ask me, but if they did--here's what I would say. Get some really good long term counseling. Shut down the TV show. Your children deserve privacy. They (if they haven't already) are pretty much all going to go through a difficult time at some point in childhood, it's part of growing up. It might be for a few weeks, or it might be long term. Kids should be shielded as they learn and grow into adulthood. The cameras make it impossible to lead a normal life.
No amount of money or freebie trips are worth the pain that a child, tween or teen will likely feel when they google their name and find out they grew up with absolutely NO privacy. On top of that, their parents marital situation and familial relationships will be spelled out in terms that will be crushing.
It makes me so sad for every one of those children.

 

[Camno's Mama]

I think it's kind of sad that anyone would call any of their kids brats. In print, on t.v., anywhere. Say what you want about the parents, but namecalling their children is pretty sad.

If the kids google themselves and read those comments, it's not only their parents or TLC who are to blame. By making those comments, the general public is contributing to their need for therapy as well.

They didn't choose this. And I can tell you that if someone had been filming me at 4 or 8 or 12 or 17, I would have been called a brat. I was prone to outbursts, and it took me a while to learn how to handle my emotions. I did learn, and I'm a perfectly nice adult. I would hate to always be judged by the bad behavior that I showed as a child. No matter how inappropriate the little girl's behavior may seem...everyone has their moments. She's 8.

Off my soapbox now. I've always felt bad for kids that get a bad rap though. It's hard enough to learn how to manage those emotions, much less when the general public has already put you in the "brat box".

 

[rjthkids]

I think it's kind of sad that anyone would call any of their kids brats. In print, on t.v., anywhere. Say what you want about the parents, but namecalling their children is pretty sad.

If the kids google themselves and read those comments, it's not only their parents or TLC who are to blame. By making those comments, the general public is contributing to their need for therapy as well.

They didn't choose this. And I can tell you that if someone had been filming me at 4 or 8 or 12 or 17, I would have been called a brat. I was prone to outbursts, and it took me a while to learn how to handle my emotions. I did learn, and I'm a perfectly nice adult. I would hate to always be judged by the bad behavior that I showed as a child. No matter how inappropriate the little girl's behavior may seem...everyone has their moments. She's 8.

Off my soapbox now. I've always felt bad for kids that get a bad rap though. It's hard enough to learn how to manage those emotions, much less when the general public has already put you in the "brat box".

I *totally* agree. I have several special needs children and my son with high functioning autism could give television cameras plenty of "interesting" footage. I couldn't fathom hanging him out to dry for public commentary. The public should also know better than to be making comments like that about children as well.....it's a sad commentary all around.

 

[alexandria674]

Here are some things I wanted to point out
A. The Duggars, sure they seem a lot more down to earth and the mom seems to be smiling the whole time..but let's be honest. It appears that the woman gets pregnant, has fun with the baby and then once it is a bit older she bounces it along to one of her older daughters with what appears to be little regard.
B. The money Kate Gosselin gets. Look, if people were so sick of her, there wouldn't be a show nor would people buy her books. The reason why they make money is because people WANT to see them. You can say "Not me" but obviously you have watched the show. You weren't forced to watch it, you WANTED to see it. Now it is not a very entertaining show but obviously some people want to watch Kate scream at her kids. It's called DEMAND. If no one wants to watch this show, then it will be pulled. So to those who complan and STILL watch the show, stop the "tsk tsk" stuff, because you are contributing.
C. Free stuff. Ok, sure the family gets things. But let's be honest. If someone presented someone with free things, would you take the things? Your dryer is on the fritz, but there is a new one in that truck over there. Some readers of this post will probably get sanctimonius and reply "I would never do that" but unless you are in the family's position, what place do you have to complain? Personally, the fact that Kate AND Jon ( I do not belive painting Kate as a evil witch and Jon had some say in this also) put their family on television with such scrutiny is a bad idea to me, but as I have said. I am not in their position so who am I to judge.
D. Kate. So she freaks out, so she complains, gripes and moans. Who doesn't? Let's stick you with 8 kids and see if you don't freak out. When the cameraman is not there, do you see the real story?
E. To the people who pick on Maddy being a brat. Charming. I am sure your kids are so perfect that they look like saints next to her. Maddy is a little girl, some little girls are brats, some grow out of it.

 

[playswithstars]

Here are some things I wanted to point out
A. The Duggars, sure they seem a lot more down to earth and the mom seems to be smiling the whole time..but let's be honest. It appears that the woman gets pregnant, has fun with the baby and then once it is a bit older she bounces it along to one of her older daughters with what appears to be little regard.
B. The money Kate Gosselin gets. Look, if people were so sick of her, there wouldn't be a show nor would people buy her books. The reason why they make money is because people WANT to see them. You can say "Not me" but obviously you have watched the show. You weren't forced to watch it, you WANTED to see it. Now it is not a very entertaining show but obviously some people want to watch Kate scream at her kids. It's called DEMAND. If no one wants to watch this show, then it will be pulled. So to those who complan and STILL watch the show, stop the "tsk tsk" stuff, because you are contributing.
C. Free stuff. Ok, sure the family gets things. But let's be honest. If someone presented someone with free things, would you take the things? Your dryer is on the fritz, but there is a new one in that truck over there. Some readers of this post will probably get sanctimonius and reply "I would never do that" but unless you are in the family's position, what place do you have to complain? Personally, the fact that Kate AND Jon ( I do not belive painting Kate as a evil witch and Jon had some say in this also) put their family on television with such scrutiny is a bad idea to me, but as I have said. I am not in their position so who am I to judge.
D. Kate. So she freaks out, so she complains, gripes and moans. Who doesn't? Let's stick you with 8 kids and see if you don't freak out. When the cameraman is not there, do you see the real story?
E. To the people who pick on Maddy being a brat. Charming. I am sure your kids are so perfect that they look like saints next to her. Maddy is a little girl, some little girls are brats, some grow out of it.

So using that idea are teachers and daycare workers who normally have 25-30 kids allowed to moan and yell because they get frustrated? Most daycare workers are with the parent's children more than the parent's are.

 

[emmababy]

So using that idea are teachers and daycare workers who normally have 25-30 kids allowed to moan and yell because they get frustrated? Most daycare workers are with the parent's children more than the parent's are.

Daycare workers are not with those children 24-7. If you were with 8 kids 24-7, don't tell me that there wouldn't be times that you lose your cool. I am really getting sick of people coming on these boards acting holier than thou and that they are the perfect parents.

I think parents on a whole should not judge others. We should support each other.

 

[DISNEYNV]

Not to change the subject too much, but I give Early Childhood Educatirs a ton of credit! They hold an extremely important position that unfortunately is munderpaid and undervalued! And to top it all off you need a Bachelors degree anymore to teach Preschool on up at most quality centers. I worked in the childcare field for years and while I loved my job and the children there was no way I could go to work everyday and deal with 25 or more kids then come home and deal with my own. I have since changed careers and am home with my young kids during the day and two is enough to handle without freaking out now and then! I couldn't handle eight kids 24/7. I know that I would be caught yelling and screaming if on tape too. Not to defend Kate ( who is over the top most often than not), but it's EDITING at it's best people! They tape for a few days, edit it down to half hour with commercials and that is what gets the ratings. I am really no longer a fan of the show anymore for more reasons than one, but now it seems the complaints, yelling, and freaking out by Kate is what the TV network sees as holding the show together. Sad nut true... It's not about family and the kids anymore