Jon & Kate + Eight Debate

[letsgoagainsoon]

I agree that editing has a big part of what we are seeing. I'm not saying Kate doesn't freak out, but I think her attitude is part of what intrigues a lot of people...we have 4 pages here just talking about them...obviously, we have some interest in them or we wouldnt be talking about them!

I think there would be a lot of us acting like Kate, if we had eight kids, I know I would...

 

[chrismom2005]

E. To the people who pick on Maddy being a brat. Charming. I am sure your kids are so perfect that they look like saints next to her. Maddy is a little girl, some little girls are brats, some grow out of it.

One of the things I like about the show is that my ds acts a lot like Maddy and it makes me feel better lol.

 

[mybabesuz]

So when is this big finally anyways???

Haven't watched in a long time.

 

[jennifer293]

it is on Monday at 9pm

 

[LittleMissMagic]

I really do not understand how people can give animals back?

The breeder who sold (well, probably gave) them the dogs told them he could take them back at any time. I think he had a feeling this would be a temporary situation to begin with.

I mean.... two large dogs with 6 little kids? Bad, bad idea. I don't understand why they started out with two. One new puppy is enough to handle (their kids are enough to handle)!

 

[kacaju]

The breeder who sold (well, probably gave) them the dogs told them he could take them back at any time. I think he had a feeling this would be a temporary situation to begin with.

I mean.... two large dogs with 6 little kids? Bad, bad idea. I don't understand why they started out with two. One new puppy is enough to handle (their kids are enough to handle)!

I know many people who breed and show dogs any one of them will take back a dog they sold at any time if the owners felt they could no longer care for it.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

I'm pretty sure nobody is aware of their financial situation. The million dollar house-while it is beautiful-is not extravagent (i.e. decorating, finishes, etc). With 10 people in a family, a large house is almost a necessity. It's a large house that, in my opinion, was needed for a family of 10. I would have been more concerned for the children if they DIDN'T move into a larger house.
Secondly, this spending that you speak off-while they have expensive clothes, medical procedures, vacations etc. they don't pay for half of it. I would have to imagine that J&K have less debt than the average 4 person family. Also, Kate is still as frugal as ever! As J&K stood in their "million dollar house" K was still concerned about a coupon J neglected to use. I know if I was banking as much as they are I wouldn't be cutting coupons anymore.

I agree with this. All of their vacations are free. The resorts INVITE them to come in order to get publicity. It's all about advertisement - the Gosselins are promoting Walt Disney World, Sesame Place, and Chocolate World. Instead of paying for commercials, magazine ads, etc., they give the Gosselins a "free" trip to their destination and are refunded by "free" publicity.

As for clothing, the Gosselins obviously have a deal with Baby Gap. Notice that whenever the children have shirts with logos on, it's from Gap. If it wasn't given to them in an advertisement, they would blur the brand name just like the do on the cereal boxes in the kitchen. (Never advertise for free!)

The house is big, but keep in mind that they were living in a 4,000 sq ft home before they moved and it was crowded. They went from 400 sq ft per person to 800 sq ft per person. If my family were that big, I would definitely want a larger home. The kids may be little right now, but keep in mind that six of them are the same age. Now.... imagine eight teenagers living in a 4,000 sq ft home!

 

[rjthkids]

I'm sorry, but living in a 2500 square foot with soon-to-be 8 people, it honestly flabbergasts me to think of 4000 square feet as being "too small" and "needing" more space. You are not crowded in a 4000 square foot home. I live in half that amount of space, all of my children are aged 6 and under and we are in no way "crowded". A 4000 square foot home is MORE than adequate space for a family of 10.

Now, people are entitled to spend their money however they want. Someone doesn't need to justify wanting a bigger home if they just want one, so long as they can pay for it. But there is no justifying the purchase of their new home with the thought that they were "too crowded" and "needed" more space just because they are a family of 10. Because that is just not true. Because if their family of 10 was simply "too crowded" for their 4000 square foot house then my gosh, my poor family of 8 must be living in downright squalor to even *think* that 2500 square feet is quite spacious, and my friend who is has 8 children and also lives in 2500 square feet must be doing the same thing.

And I do get that many of their trips are free, and their clothes are free. That's precisely the point. They're hawking out their children's every last shred of privacy to get a bunch of stuff. They are hawking out their children and they are DEPENDING on their children to support them. Plastic surgery and hair plugs, fancy vacations and fancy homes are not worth selling out and riding on the backs of my children. They're just not. They didn't "need" to put on a television show to be able to feed, clothe and house their children. They've been sucked into the greed-pit and they have no qualms about using their children to get stuff. I don't agree with that.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

Well no one really NEEDs anything (except food, water, and oxygen).

It's really what you can have and what you're willing to spend your money on.

And it was definitely going to get crowded (if not already). They had six kids sharing one bathroom. In a few years, when the kids could wash themselves, it would take 3-5 hours to get everyone clean before bed. The hot water probably wouldn't even last that long. It was in their best interest to at least purchase a home with more full bathrooms.

Now, I know there are a lot of situations that are worse. However, the Gosselins could afford to upgrade. I don't believe in holding someone back because there's someone else out there who doesn't have the same opportunity.

 

[Steph9072]

Like I posted before I feel for the kids. I pray their parents can pull it together for them.

But I often wonder if the editing makes Kate look worse than she is. Granted she does say some nasty mean things to Jon...but we only see Jon being like that 1/2 of the time. So either we are not seeing it all or he needs to grow some man parts & stand up to her. I doubt that there is one of here who has not snapped at or said something nasty to our dh's/dw's or significant other. All couples argue and get snappy with each other. Especially when they are under stress. I know I do and dh has his moments to. I can't imagine how much stress they are under.

As far as why they did the show I think they started with honest good intentions. They said when they agreed to do it the did so because with the twins they were able to video everything. They found the the six they just didn't have time. So they thought this might be a good way to document that. Plus, I think this came along right after Jon had found a job(he lost his job around or after the six were born) and I know that they had to think the $$ would help. However, IMO the time has come to loose the camera's raise their kids and love each other. And maybe just maybe w/o the camera's they will fix what is broke

 

[ilandrazdsw]

This will most likely bring flames, but I will say it anyway. Yes, TLC does have some very creative editing (I hope that is the excuse), but for those who say about being with 8 kids 24/7...they are HER kids (and Jon's). They are the parents. It is their responsibility to care, love, provide for, and watch over them every hour of every day! If any parent can't deal with that many children then they shouldn't have them. Ok, I know (what does she say) they wanted 1 more and got 6...they took the chance...their responsibility on the good days, bad days, happy days, and sad days...and even when mommy isn't feeling good and has 101 things going on. All parents need and deserve to vent, and even get some time to them selves, but she almost gives the impression that it is a chore to have her children.

The PP who mentioned that Michelle Duggar has the kids and then passes them off to the older children for care...Don't really see how Kate is that far removed. Kate may have more contact with the kids (telling them what to do like not get messy or to stop bothering her), but how much hands on time does she have (againg TLC editing at its finest) with the kids, especially with traveling for umm, work.

 

[rjthkids]

Well no one really NEEDs anything (except food, water, and oxygen).

It's really what you can have and what you're willing to spend your money on.

And it was definitely going to get crowded (if not already). They had six kids sharing one bathroom. In a few years, when the kids could wash themselves, it would take 3-5 hours to get everyone clean before bed. The hot water probably wouldn't even last that long. It was in their best interest to at least purchase a home with more full bathrooms.

Now, I know there are a lot of situations that are worse. However, the Gosselins could afford to upgrade. I don't believe in holding someone back because there's someone else out there who doesn't have the same opportunity.

Absolutely As I said in my previous post, no one needs to justify how they spend their own money. They have the money, they want to spend it on something, there doesn't need to be a reason. But there was justification going on in this thread that they "needed" a bigger house, and that 4000 square feet was too small for their family. All my kids share one bathroom too. The adults have another bathroom. Our 2500 square feet is pretty nice!

To me, this points to the larger issue. Before this show, they had a 4000 square foot house (almost twice as large my own), Jon worked to support his family so Kate could stay home with her children. They had more than they could have ever needed. Were they rich and famous and able to live the high life? No. But were they desperately poor, scraping by the bottom of the barrel to figure out how to feed their children? No.

So, they sacrifice their children's privacy out of a genuine need. They didn't throw Maddy under a bus so that they could at least ensure everyone had enough food on the table. They did it for frivolous and completely unnecessary *stuff*. They knowingly let their daughter be portrayed to the world as a "brat", let their children's poop be a conversation for millions, and decimate any sense of privacy to grow up and figure out the world to make their children a spectator.....for hair plugs, and fancy new clothes, and fancy vacations and plastic surgery and a new mansion.

At what point does a child's need and right for privacy get weighed against the desire for fancy trinkets? It doesn't matter whether they are using their own money or someone else is handing it to them for the advertising....they're letting their children be used so they can get things. Things that were not vital to the well-being of their children or their family.

So, what I completely disagree with is the level that they are willing to sacrifice their children for things that aren't even remotely necessary for their family's well-being. A degree of privacy is necessary for the well-being of a child as he or she grows. Fifteen million trips to Hawaii and Disney World are *not* necessary to a child's well-being, though they're certainly great if you can do them. But I wouldn't sacrifice my children's long term well being so I could take them on a trip. I just wouldn't.

And FTR--- I have no judgment of Kate, Jon or any of her children. I don't watch the show but I know full well that if you followed me around with a camera all day long and edited our family life down to one hour a week, you could make me, and my kids look however you want. Which is precisely why I would never let someone have that kind of access to my family, but no matter how they are appearing on television doesn't mean that is how they actually are most of the time in real life.

 

[MarriedToAPrince]

I think they are going to be getting rid of the dogs.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

So, they sacrifice their children's privacy out of a genuine need. They didn't throw Maddy under a bus so that they could at least ensure everyone had enough food on the table. They did it for frivolous and completely unnecessary *stuff*. They knowingly let their daughter be portrayed to the world as a "brat", let their children's poop be a conversation for millions, and decimate any sense of privacy to grow up and figure out the world to make their children a spectator.....for hair plugs, and fancy new clothes, and fancy vacations and plastic surgery and a new mansion.

At what point does a child's need and right for privacy get weighed against the desire for fancy trinkets? It doesn't matter whether they are using their own money or someone else is handing it to them for the advertising....they're letting their children be used so they can get things. Things that were not vital to the well-being of their children or their family.

So, what I completely disagree with is the level that they are willing to sacrifice their children for things that aren't even remotely necessary for their family's well-being. A degree of privacy is necessary for the well-being of a child as he or she grows. Fifteen million trips to Hawaii and Disney World are *not* necessary to a child's well-being, though they're certainly great if you can do them. But I wouldn't sacrifice my children's long term well being so I could take them on a trip. I just wouldn't.

I agree, sacrificing their children's privacy to me is unhealthy. I'm sure it started out as Kate said, they wanted to document the early days of life with the sextuplets. Apparently it seems that it has become eskewed. The old Kate from early episodes had her in lounge pants and t-shirts and looking like she was doing the work of caring for those little kids. Now look at her...she's like a fashionista compared to her former self. On the puppies episode she had her stripey, spiked hair all done, make-up perfect and dressed nicely including spiked heels. Weird, who goes to a dog pound/breeder home dressed that way? Anyhow, I'm getting off topic here!

The show has lost it's charm and honestly, I feel terrible for Jon and the kids. 90% of the time she looks irritated and annoyed with all of them, especially Jon. True, us married folk all get snippy and irritated but guess what? Kate knows they're filming, she's fully aware of how the show works since it's been on for 3 years for crying out loud! Jon used to snip back at her but now he looks worn out and dejected.

Here's an idea! Someone should make Jon and Kate sit down and watch their own show from beginning to end and see what they think. The best thing for them is to discontinue the show and focus on each other and those beautiful children they have.

 

[emileee]

I have yet to see Michele Duggar lose her cool with those 18 kids on the show..I sometimes think that the woman has to be on a constant IV drip of "happy medicine" because she is always sooooo calm, cool and collected. I have 2 kids and I feel like I could go insane some days, maybe I should get my tubal reversed and have 16 more..it may calm me down....LOL
Just kidding..I would rather get a tummy tuck like Kate did...

I wonder if she has editing control...because is that humanly possible?

 

[ilandrazdsw]

To me, this points to the larger issue. Before this show, they had a 4000 square foot house (almost twice as large my own), Jon worked to support his family so Kate could stay home with her children. They had more than they could have ever needed. Were they rich and famous and able to live the high life? No. But were they desperately poor, scraping by the bottom of the barrel to figure out how to feed their children? No.

So, they sacrifice their children's privacy out of a genuine need. They didn't throw Maddy under a bus so that they could at least ensure everyone had enough food on the table. They did it for frivolous and completely unnecessary *stuff*. They knowingly let their daughter be portrayed to the world as a "brat", let their children's poop be a conversation for millions, and decimate any sense of privacy to grow up and figure out the world to make their children a spectator.....for hair plugs, and fancy new clothes, and fancy vacations and plastic surgery and a new mansion.

At what point does a child's need and right for privacy get weighed against the desire for fancy trinkets? It doesn't matter whether they are using their own money or someone else is handing it to them for the advertising....they're letting their children be used so they can get things. Things that were not vital to the well-being of their children or their family.

So, what I completely disagree with is the level that they are willing to sacrifice their children for things that aren't even remotely necessary for their family's well-being. A degree of privacy is necessary for the well-being of a child as he or she grows. Fifteen million trips to Hawaii and Disney World are *not* necessary to a child's well-being, though they're certainly great if you can do them. But I wouldn't sacrifice my children's long term well being so I could take them on a trip. I just wouldn't.

Have these parents (J&K) never seen any of the episodes that seem to constantly aire on MTV, VH1, and E! about child stars and where are they now? Some children wanted the fame, others were pushed into it, and some fell into it, but *most* of the endings seem to be the same. Sure, there are the success stories like Ron Howard, Jodi Foster, and Brooke Shields. There are also *so* many tragic stories of not being able to find work due to typecasting, drug/alcohol abuse, and death. Attitudes and stinky bottoms may be cute as a small child, but I doubt they are things that you would want brought up as an adult. I truly hope that there are no lasting negative effects for the children...and if there are I hope either the grown child or his/her threapist can figure out if the parents or TLC is to blame.

 

[MarriedToAPrince]

I agree with this. All of their vacations are free. The resorts INVITE them to come in order to get publicity. It's all about advertisement - the Gosselins are promoting Walt Disney World, Sesame Place, and Chocolate World. Instead of paying for commercials, magazine ads, etc., they give the Gosselins a "free" trip to their destination and are refunded by "free" publicity.

As for clothing, the Gosselins obviously have a deal with Baby Gap. Notice that whenever the children have shirts with logos on, it's from Gap. If it wasn't given to them in an advertisement, they would blur the brand name just like the do on the cereal boxes in the kitchen. (Never advertise for free!)

The house is big, but keep in mind that they were living in a 4,000 sq ft home before they moved and it was crowded. They went from 400 sq ft per person to 800 sq ft per person. If my family were that big, I would definitely want a larger home. The kids may be little right now, but keep in mind that six of them are the same age. Now.... imagine eight teenagers living in a 4,000 sq ft home!

It has actually been confirmed that they do have a contract with Gymboree. All the kids where Gymboree. Kate picks out what she wants and then goes to her local Gymboree and picks it up. We are talking about thousands of dollars in clothing. I think they used to have a contract with Gap but I am not sure if they do anymore since you rarely see Gap anymore since they always where Gymboree.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

The old Kate from early episodes had her in lounge pants and t-shirts and looking like she was doing the work of caring for those little kids. Now look at her...she's like a fashionista compared to her former self. On the puppies episode she had her stripey, spiked hair all done, make-up perfect and dressed nicely including spiked heels. Weird, who goes to a dog pound/breeder home dressed that way?

Actually, this is one of the things I like the most about Kate. I'm a people watcher (one of the reasons I enjoy this type of show), and the thing that impresses me most about a family is when they're all well-kept. (It bothers me to see a mother who looks like she's spent hours on hair and makeup only to be walking around with a child with wet hair, just as it bothers me to see adorable, well-dressed children with a mother in sweat pants.) Kate and her family are very fashionable. She keeps herself looking great, but also makes sure her kids look just as polished. They show her in the living room fixing the girls' hair before they go out for the day. I think personal hygiene and dressing for success are great values to teach children.

I realize that there are a lot of people who value "teaching children independence and self-expression" and will let a kid leave the house wearing pajama pants and a swimsuit top. I, however, value dressing neatly and appropriately - I think it's something that'll get a person a lot farther in the business world.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

It has actually been confirmed that they do have a contract with Gymboree. All the kids where Gymboree. Kate picks out what she wants and then goes to her local Gymboree and picks it up. We are talking about thousands of dollars in clothing. I think they used to have a contract with Gap but I am not sure if they do anymore since you rarely see Gap anymore since they always where Gymboree.

Ah, I haven't noticed. Gymboree doesn't exactly spell their name out on the front of tee shirts.

They do have adorable clothes, though.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Actually, this is one of the things I like the most about Kate. I'm a people watcher (one of the reasons I enjoy this type of show), and the thing that impresses me most about a family is when they're all well-kept. (It bothers me to see a mother who looks like she's spent hours on hair and makeup only to be walking around with a child with wet hair, just as it bothers me to see adorable, well-dressed children with a mother in sweat pants.) Kate and her family are very fashionable. She keeps herself looking great, but also makes sure her kids look just as polished. They show her in the living room fixing the girls' hair before they go out for the day. I think personal hygiene and dressing for success are great values to teach children.

I realize that there are a lot of people who value "teaching children independence and self-expression" and will let a kid leave the house wearing pajama pants and a swimsuit top. I, however, value dressing neatly and appropriately - I think it's something that'll get a person a lot farther in the business world.

That wasn't my point. I agree, her kids always look groomed and well kept. I'v never felt they didn't. I meant that the old episodes had Kate looking more realistic in relation to what she was doing...taking care of the kids, making meals, etc. I for one always make sure my kids look presentable and aren't leaving the house looking sloppy. My point had nothing to do with those beautiful kids