Jon & Kate + Eight Debate

[Goofy'slady]

I use to love the show, as a matter of fact I got several of our friends and family members hooked on the show - so much so there's been a few dvd seasons purchased by a friend of ours who happen to be visiting and caught several episodes of a marathon and when he returned home to see if he actually got the show (he's from The Netherlands) and found out that they didn't he started sending my husband money every so often so that when the next season came out he could have it sent it to him.

I no longer watch it! It became more of a what can Kate get the public and her loyal fan base to contribute to her new lifestyle that she became accustomed to than about the kids and everyday family life. Everything from the trips here and there, Jon's hair plugs, multi days at the spa, huge beach rentals and the new house. I'm not begrudging them for what they've been able to do and places they've been able to go (honestly, my family has been able to do them as well on some level) but it's like it's become one big commercial. The reports of all the clothes they get for free, the money from book signings and other promotional things got to me. Those things in and of themselves aren't wrong but when you put them together along with Kate recent attitude of entitlement is not becoming.

My hubby and I was talking about this very subject last night after watching 18 kids and Counting (the Duggars) and how even tho we only have 2 kids and they have about a gazillion that we find that they are a little bit more down to earth than Kate and her clan and we find that since we think the Duggars are more real (they still see their extended families, let their kids get dirty and the like) that we can relate to them better than the Goslings(sp? forgive me).

T.

 

[jennifer293]

I use to love the show, as a matter of fact I got several of our friends and family members hooked on the show - so much so there's been a few dvd seasons purchased by a friend of ours who happen to be visiting and caught several episodes of a marathon and when he returned home to see if he actually got the show (he's from The Netherlands) and found out that they didn't he started sending my husband money every so often so that when the next season came out he could have it sent it to him.

I no longer watch it! It became more of a what can Kate get the public and her loyal fan base to contribute to her new lifestyle that she became accustomed to than about the kids and everyday family life. Everything from the trips here and there, Jon's hair plugs, multi days at the spa, huge beach rentals and the new house. I'm not begrudging them for what they've been able to do and places they've been able to go (honestly, my family has been able to do them as well on some level) but it's like it's become one big commercial. The reports of all the clothes they get for free, the money from book signings and other promotional things got to me. Those things in and of themselves aren't wrong but when you put them together along with Kate recent attitude of entitlement is not becoming.

My hubby and I was talking about this very subject last night after watching 18 kids and Counting (the Duggars) and how even tho we only have 2 kids and they have about a gazillion that we find that they are a little bit more down to earth than Kate and her clan and we find that since we think the Duggars are more real (they still see their extended families, let their kids get dirty and the like) that we can relate to them better than the Goslings(sp? forgive me).

T.

I have yet to see Michele Duggar lose her cool with those 18 kids on the show..I sometimes think that the woman has to be on a constant IV drip of "happy medicine" because she is always sooooo calm, cool and collected. I have 2 kids and I feel like I could go insane some days, maybe I should get my tubal reversed and have 16 more..it may calm me down....LOL
Just kidding..I would rather get a tummy tuck like Kate did...

 

[disneymomofmyca]

I will admit that my DD6 and I are Jon & Kate junkies; however, Kate's reaction to everyday life really disturb us! We all have our moments of freak outs and monthly hormonal imbalances but my gosh!...she over reacts constantly! I had never seen the infamous WDW icecream episode so I watched it on You Tube over the weekend...I could NOT believe what I was seeing. We tried to eat ice cream on the curb on Main St last July and we had the biggest mess ever. The Photopass guy thought it was hilarious and snapped a ton of pictures of us with out us even knowing! And another CM gave us a giant stack of napkins to help out. It was fun and messy and Disney. She need to relax and let her kids make a mess once in awhile. I am very much OCD and I like things done my way but...I let my daughter be a kid. She will only be a kid for a tiny portion of her life and I would feel terrible if I took that away from her. I am also a bit surprised at Maddy's tantrums. I don't think tantrums at age 8 are part of being a kid and that I don't allow. On the WDW episode she was screaming (literally) because she wanted to eat...NOW. Does anyone else think that is not normal? I sometimes wonder what her classmates think when they see her acting like that. I still like the show but I really think there are alot of personality issues with Kate and Maddy.

 

[kpmdjm]

i think it was just to get people to watch. I also heard that they have already given the dogs back. So maybe has to do with that. I also thougth I heard somewhere that the new season starts in May.

 

[JerseyMamaBear]

I dont know how anyone could act the way she does in front of a tv crew for all the world to see! If thats not a reality check on how wicked witchy your being then nothing is,

 

[TwistofLemon]

I haven't seen the ad you're refering to, but I seriously doubt Jon & Kate will split up. And I'm certain the show will go on. It's the number one program on TLC.

Yes there are other shows about families with multiples, but I don't think any other families have learned to milk it like Kate does. You know they just moved in to their new $$million$$ mansion. If they lose their income (the show), they won't even be able to pay their property taxes.

The kids are absolutely the cutest, but I wonder what they'll have to say about their parents and their upbringing when they are older. I mean, there has been more attention paid to their bathroom habits. I think they are getting too old for their poop to be cute!

And the poor puppies they just got. Don't even get me started on that!

I'm glad I work on Monday nights. Not sure why I even set my DVR

 

[HGD24]

I don't watch the show all that often anymore because watching Kate's OCD, constant yelling, snide remarks and negativity are not how I need to spend my time. I looked at their website and laughed when I clicked on the devotionals section - the 1st devotional listed "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - even though it looks like the comment is written by Kate, I have a hard time believing that she's even know what the phrase means not with the way she treats her husband and her kids.

http://www.sixgosselins.com/

 

[LittleMissMagic]

I have yet to see Michele Duggar lose her cool with those 18 kids on the show..I sometimes think that the woman has to be on a constant IV drip of "happy medicine" because she is always sooooo calm, cool and collected.

I think that's what bugs me the most about her.... that's not normal. She seems brainwashed. I would like to see her lose her cool just once... just a little bit (I'd also like to see her get irritated with her husband a little bit - I think it's wonderful that they have such a strong marriage; I'm just not sure that Michelle Duggar gets much say in anything).

 

[Ppufi]

Wow. You all must really hate Kate, huh? Kind of harsh. I'd be pretty stressed out too, with all those kids. Heck, my mom can act like that and she only has two!

Before you tell me "She promotes her personal life on TV" crap, I know. But still, cramped quarters with a bunch of small children is probably crazy. All I'm saying.

 

[emmababy]

Dont flame me, but I am going to play the devil's advocate for a minute. Take it back a little bit, they find out they are pregnant with 6 kids, she is on bedrest, he gets laid off- I would have had a nervous breakdown. I mean come on, how do you pay for 8 kids???

Fast forward to a network offering you a chance to be on tv, which in turn leads to speaking engagements, book deal, etc.... I don't know about you but I would jump all over it and capitalize on it. I mean that is the American dream right? Coming from nothing, seizing an opportunity and running with it.

Sure they have their problems, all families do. I don't know about you all, but if I had a camera in my face, I am sure I wouldn't be cast in the best light either. I get she is overbearing, but they found an opportunity to provide for their kids, tlc sought them out not vice versa.

I know a lot of people are saying the exploit their kids, but shouldn't TLC shoulder the some of the blame. I mean look at how many shows about kids they have on their schedule.

I just think we shouldn't judge them because we haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

Again, don't flame me, just trying to offer a different point of view.

 

[princessmom29]

I have yet to see Michele Duggar lose her cool with those 18 kids on the show..I sometimes think that the woman has to be on a constant IV drip of "happy medicine" because she is always sooooo calm, cool and collected. I have 2 kids and I feel like I could go insane some days, maybe I should get my tubal reversed and have 16 more..it may calm me down....LOL
Just kidding..I would rather get a tummy tuck like Kate did...

Yea, because she is not allowed to lose her cool or have opinions of her own. The are part of a movement called quiverfull that believes that gender equality is agianst biblical principles and women are supposed to be subservient.

 

[ryanshana]

Dont flame me, but I am going to play the devil's advocate for a minute. Take it back a little bit, they find out they are pregnant with 6 kids, she is on bedrest, he gets laid off- I would have had a nervous breakdown. I mean come on, how do you pay for 8 kids???

Fast forward to a network offering you a chance to be on tv, which in turn leads to speaking engagements, book deal, etc.... I don't know about you but I would jump all over it and capitalize on it. I mean that is the American dream right? Coming from nothing, seizing an opportunity and running with it.

Sure they have their problems, all families do. I don't know about you all, but if I had a camera in my face, I am sure I wouldn't be cast in the best light either. I get she is overbearing, but they found an opportunity to provide for their kids, tlc sought them out not vice versa.

I know a lot of people are saying the exploit their kids, but shouldn't TLC shoulder the some of the blame. I mean look at how many shows about kids they have on their schedule.

I just think we shouldn't judge them because we haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

Again, don't flame me, just trying to offer a different point of view.

I couldn't AGREE w/ you more! No flames from me

 

[LivinInTheCastle]

Dont flame me, but I am going to play the devil's advocate for a minute. Take it back a little bit, they find out they are pregnant with 6 kids, she is on bedrest, he gets laid off- I would have had a nervous breakdown. I mean come on, how do you pay for 8 kids???

Fast forward to a network offering you a chance to be on tv, which in turn leads to speaking engagements, book deal, etc.... I don't know about you but I would jump all over it and capitalize on it. I mean that is the American dream right? Coming from nothing, seizing an opportunity and running with it.

Sure they have their problems, all families do. I don't know about you all, but if I had a camera in my face, I am sure I wouldn't be cast in the best light either. I get she is overbearing, but they found an opportunity to provide for their kids, tlc sought them out not vice versa.

I know a lot of people are saying the exploit their kids, but shouldn't TLC shoulder the some of the blame. I mean look at how many shows about kids they have on their schedule.

I just think we shouldn't judge them because we haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

Again, don't flame me, just trying to offer a different point of view.

I agree with you. And the cameras aren't there all the time, so if they happen to catch arguments, bickering, etc. obviously they are going to air it. I also think that despite their problems, they are a family and I think they want to be together.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

Dont flame me, but I am going to play the devil's advocate for a minute. Take it back a little bit, they find out they are pregnant with 6 kids, she is on bedrest, he gets laid off- I would have had a nervous breakdown. I mean come on, how do you pay for 8 kids???

Fast forward to a network offering you a chance to be on tv, which in turn leads to speaking engagements, book deal, etc.... I don't know about you but I would jump all over it and capitalize on it. I mean that is the American dream right? Coming from nothing, seizing an opportunity and running with it.

Sure they have their problems, all families do. I don't know about you all, but if I had a camera in my face, I am sure I wouldn't be cast in the best light either. I get she is overbearing, but they found an opportunity to provide for their kids, tlc sought them out not vice versa.

I know a lot of people are saying the exploit their kids, but shouldn't TLC shoulder the some of the blame. I mean look at how many shows about kids they have on their schedule.

I just think we shouldn't judge them because we haven't walked a mile in their shoes.

Again, don't flame me, just trying to offer a different point of view.

I completely agree. I mean.... if given the opportunities they have been given, I would definitely take advantage. Who wouldn't?

 

[rjthkids]

Yea, because she is not allowed to lose her cool or have opinions of her own. The are part of a movement called quiverfull that believes that gender equality is agianst biblical principles and women are supposed to be subservient.

They are well beyond the quiverfull movement, they are also die hard follwers of Bill Gothard. They homeschool under his ATI program. Those children get hit with switches from the time they are little infants. Her book is RIDDLED with "code speak" that fellow Gothardites would understand to mean--- "paddled/switched". I know for a fact they blanket train their babies because she writes about it. Basically, you put a baby who has just learned to crawl on a blanket, and then you switch them the instant they try to crawl off. Once they no longer will crawl off with you present, you hide around a corner and peek in without the baby knowing you are looking, and then the instant they crawl off you come FLYING from around the corner, swiftly switch the baby and put them back on the blanket. Eventually, the baby learns that he/she better not crawl off the blanket and you'll see a blanket trained baby as young as 6 months old sit on a blanket for HOURS without daring to move off. Gothard and several other highly punitive, quiverful Christian sects (Michael Pearl and Pearl-ites come to mind) highly recommend blanket training because a blanket is so portable that a baby can be easily contained where ever you happen to be.

Do I think the Duggars are awful terrible people? No. I'm a conservative Christian and I regularly see how easy it is for well-meaning people to fall into parenting traps like Gothard (who doesn't even have children!!!!) and Pearl. But what is means that the Duggar children have been trained from infancy to first-time obedience at all times, at all costs. They have been trained that you must always be "sweet" or face a severe punishment. Anger, defiance, and any kind of outburst leads to a swift "correction" from the time a baby can roll on a diaper table (you start switching then, and yes, a four month old rolling while you are trying to change his/her diaper is considered "defiance" that must be disciplined). So, by the time those children are toddlers, they've already been switched enough times to have started to learn the lesson of "always be sweet" and "always be obedient". And that's why Michelle never has to lose her temper or get angry. Gothard, Pearl, and the hard-core Ezzo stuff *always* *always* stresses "sweetness" and that you never "discipline" in anger. And conversely once the children are preschoolers and know that first time obedience is a 100% expectation, there aren't a lot of situations in which you have to "discipline"....by then a verbal command to "jump" is met with "how high?"

I don't know how she manages to "discipline" her little ones with the cameras around, but rest assured she still does because it is a pre-requisite to be accepted into the ATI program. But they also teach how to keep it very quiet and not made public because the cultural opinions about physical punishment. Any time you hear them discuss "correction" or "discipline" those are code words for using a paint stirrer to leave red marks on the upper thighs of their children.

So---- I think between the Duggars and Jon and Kate plus 8 you have a great study in two extremes. The Duggars are by far a calmer, more orderly, "happier" household. But I don't know I'd pick the Duggars over J&K if it meant I had to follow their methods to achieve it. Thankfully, it is very possible to avoid being a screaming raving lunatic like Kate without having to switch your 4 month old baby.

 

[rjthkids]

I completely agree. I mean.... if given the opportunities they have been given, I would definitely take advantage. Who wouldn't?

I wouldn't, certainly not to the degree they have taken advantage of their children.

Bottom line it's not my children's responsibility to house me, clothe me, feed me, and financially support me. Child actors now have very specific laws that protect them from becoming the workhorse that supports their parents lavish lifestyle and then when they grow up there is little left for *them*, that *they* earned.

Children on reality t.v. shows have no such protection. Which means their parents are free to take every dime earned from that show and spend it on whatever they want (like million dollar homes). And what happens when the sextuplets are old enough that they're no longer "interesting" t.v. any more and the show is canceled? What happens when the book deals and the speaking engagements slow down? When you are spending money at the clip they are, then you are literally depending on your fame as the parents of sextuplets to support you. Property taxes in PA aren't cheap, what is the fallback to sustain their lifestyle when they can't get it off the backs of their children's fame? How much of their children's right to privacy been stripped for their parents right to be opportunistic and make money?

There are many, MANY families of higher order multiples who choose to protect their children's right to some semblance of privacy and a normal life versus hawking them out to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that's willing to pay a buck. The septuplet family that has lead a low profile. There is a family in the U.K. with Octuplets. There are NUMEROUS families of sextuplets and quints that don't sell their children out to the media. I know a family with the only set of quintuplets in our state, who also have three other children. They have 8 just like J&K and their quints are 4 year old. Mom stays at home and Dad works and they scrape by.

There are some things in life worth a lot more than money. Integrity is certainly one. I can see have a television special here and there, and accepting offers for trips or things that you otherwise could not have afforded to give *TO YOUR CHILDREN*. But when it becomes a way of supporting *YOURSELF AND YOUR SPOUSE*, and affording things for *YOURSELF* that you couldn't otherwise get if you didn't sell out your children then I'm sorry, I see very little integrity in that.

Just one mom's humble opinion.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

I've been doing some Google searches... it's killing me! I have to know what's up with my favorite reality TV family!

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1570782/jon_and_kate_plus_8_season_finale_turning.html

 

[TnTWalter]

That really makes me sad about the Duggars but I can't imagine a camera crew not wanting to film that....talk about ratings...that's the bottom line for them most times, like supernanny with the abuser.

I cannot imagine switching a baby! Holy cow.

Trish

 

[ash-n-brensmom]

They are well beyond the quiverfull movement, they are also die hard follwers of Bill Gothard. They homeschool under his ATI program. Those children get hit with switches from the time they are little infants. Her book is RIDDLED with "code speak" that fellow Gothardites would understand to mean--- "paddled/switched". I know for a fact they blanket train their babies because she writes about it. Basically, you put a baby who has just learned to crawl on a blanket, and then you switch them the instant they try to crawl off. Once they no longer will crawl off with you present, you hide around a corner and peek in without the baby knowing you are looking, and then the instant they crawl off you come FLYING from around the corner, swiftly switch the baby and put them back on the blanket. Eventually, the baby learns that he/she better not crawl off the blanket and you'll see a blanket trained baby as young as 6 months old sit on a blanket for HOURS without daring to move off. Gothard and several other highly punitive, quiverful Christian sects (Michael Pearl and Pearl-ites come to mind) highly recommend blanket training because a blanket is so portable that a baby can be easily contained where ever you happen to be.

Do I think the Duggars are awful terrible people? No. I'm a conservative Christian and I regularly see how easy it is for well-meaning people to fall into parenting traps like Gothard (who doesn't even have children!!!!) and Pearl. But what is means that the Duggar children have been trained from infancy to first-time obedience at all times, at all costs. They have been trained that you must always be "sweet" or face a severe punishment. Anger, defiance, and any kind of outburst leads to a swift "correction" from the time a baby can roll on a diaper table (you start switching then, and yes, a four month old rolling while you are trying to change his/her diaper is considered "defiance" that must be disciplined). So, by the time those children are toddlers, they've already been switched enough times to have started to learn the lesson of "always be sweet" and "always be obedient". And that's why Michelle never has to lose her temper or get angry. Gothard, Pearl, and the hard-core Ezzo stuff *always* *always* stresses "sweetness" and that you never "discipline" in anger. And conversely once the children are preschoolers and know that first time obedience is a 100% expectation, there aren't a lot of situations in which you have to "discipline"....by then a verbal command to "jump" is met with "how high?"

I don't know how she manages to "discipline" her little ones with the cameras around, but rest assured she still does because it is a pre-requisite to be accepted into the ATI program. But they also teach how to keep it very quiet and not made public because the cultural opinions about physical punishment. Any time you hear them discuss "correction" or "discipline" those are code words for using a paint stirrer to leave red marks on the upper thighs of their children.

So---- I think between the Duggars and Jon and Kate plus 8 you have a great study in two extremes. The Duggars are by far a calmer, more orderly, "happier" household. But I don't know I'd pick the Duggars over J&K if it meant I had to follow their methods to achieve it. Thankfully, it is very possible to avoid being a screaming raving lunatic like Kate without having to switch your 4 month old baby.

I feel like if I watch this show, then I am an accomplice to child abuse..I refuse to watch this..I hope that some of this is not true, but considering the diversity in our culture, odds are there are some groups of people out there who use these methods to "discipline" their children. Discipline, disciple...see a resemblance? Scary....

 

[CandleontheWater]

I highly doubt that J&K will end the show because it is their cash cow! I'm sure they could still make money for a few years with books and speaking engagements, but if they are not in the public eye, with a successful TV show, the public will lose interest FAST! They have become used to a very posh lifestyle, how on earth will they pay the mortgage, or clothe their children in designer duds on a RN and IT analysis salary! Personally I don't fault them for what they did, I guess you do what you have to in order to support your children, but I think they are really stuck now.

My real problem with them is how they glorify multiple births, I don't think this emphasis on the viability of multiple births is good for overall women's health. I think that when people watch the show that the dangers for mother and child of high order multiples gets pushed to the back burner. People see the show and see how everything is great for J&K and people are more inclined to eschew the risks and go for risky fertility treatments. I think its lending a sense of normality to high order multiples and people think they can just have the 5, 6, 7, 8(!) babies, and everything will be fine and TLC will just give them a TV show to support their brood.