Joggers, Runners & Bikers....please explain?

[mhsjax]

I don't mind bikers sharing the road as long as they follow the same rules we have to in our cars.

For example: stop signs. Bikers never stop at them. And at red lights, they like to pass everyone stopped and slide right up to the front, so that when it turns green, you have to pass them ALL over again.

Exactly.

 

[escape]

mhsjax -

Have your contacted your local authorities about the situation? If so, get others to contact them as well. There is no excuse for causing dangerous traffic conditions. Most cycling groups do not behave this way - I don't know of any that behave this way but I'm sure there are some out there...as you have witnessed.

I'm a cyclist and I sometimes ride in large groups. However, we follow the traffic laws. We mostly ride single file. Occassionally, two across if there are no cars around. If there are cars nearby, we stop at all lights and stop signs. We never cross a road as a group and make the motorists wait on us...unless it's a planned event with a traffic cop or similar holding the car traffic at bay. As others have said, we're typically afraid of motorists. I know I can't win against a motorist and I won't ever try to push my luck. There are times I have to ride close to the white line on the side of the road due to road hazzards (debris, gravel, glass, etc). However, I've never held up traffic for any reason.

As others have mentioned, there are many motorists that are quite supportive and very courteous when passing us. And, there are some, unfortunately, that are not. Our group has had trash thrown at us for NO REASON, causing a couple of our cyclists to crash into each other; we've had people spit at us and we've had an occasional car come right toward us and swerve at the last minute, barely missing us. I've never been hit by a car but others in the group have. In each of the accidents, it was the driver of the car that was at fault, not the cyclist.

I'm sorry you are having issues with this group of riders. Something needs to be done before there is a serious accident. But please, don't lump all cyclists with this group.

 

[mhsjax]

mhsjax -

Have your contacted your local authorities about the situation? If so, get others to contact them as well. There is no excuse for causing dangerous traffic conditions. Most cycling groups do not behave this way - I don't know of any that behave this way but I'm sure there are some out there...as you have witnessed.

I'm a cyclist and I sometimes ride in large groups. However, we follow the traffic laws. We mostly ride single file. Occassionally, two across if there are no cars around. If there are cars nearby, we stop at all lights and stop signs. We never cross a road as a group and make the motorists wait on us...unless it's a planned event with a traffic cop or similar holding the car traffic at bay. As others have said, we're typically afraid of motorists. I know I can't win against a motorist and I won't ever try to push my luck. There are times I have to ride close to the white line on the side of the road due to road hazzards (debris, gravel, glass, etc). However, I've never held up traffic for any reason.

As others have mentioned, there are many motorists that are quite supportive and very courteous when passing us. And, there are some, unfortunately, that are not. Our group has had trash thrown at us for NO REASON, causing a couple of our cyclists to crash into each other; we've had people spit at us and we've had an occasional car come right toward us and swerve at the last minute, barely missing us. I've never been hit by a car but others in the group have. In each of the accidents, it was the driver of the car that was at fault, not the cyclist.

I'm sorry you are having issues with this group of riders. Something needs to be done before there is a serious accident. But please, don't lump all cyclists with this group.

Thank you for being reasonable and not repeating the old :they have a right to be there". I know they do. I do know that some drivers are most likely rude and I have heard of drivers throwing things at bikers and spitting. These people are low life as far as I am concerned and I will just leave it at that. What else can you say, well nothing that can be repeated here on the Dis.

Just as you are afraid of cars, I am very terrified that I will hit a biker, through no fault of my own. Again, with 3 or 4 across if one of them were to hit something or a bump in the road or had to swerve for anything the biker next to him would literally be on top of my car or worse plastered on the front of it. They are no more than a couple of inches apart. And they are no more than about 12 inches from my SUV. I have no doubt that I would win, but it isn't a war I want to be in. I don't want to hit or hurt anyone. There is no room for error, and the fact that certain ones seem to think that road rules don't apply is very frustrating, especially when you are trying and praying that one of them doesn't fall into you.

I will say that they do seem to be slowing down and I see more of it on the weekends in the AM. Much better time, and to me, seems much safer. Maybe someone did complain, and they got the message.

 

[C.Ann]

In some areas it's against the law to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk.. I don't know if such laws exist for walking/running/and/or jogging though.. However, since many sidewalks have cracks in them - and bulges from frost heaves - I suppose tripping and falling might be why people use the roadways instead..

I've been in towns where they have a special portion of the road marked off specifically for biking - which seems like a good idea.. It doesn't seem plausible that joggers/runners/and walkers could use the same space though without the possibility of being hit by someone riding a bike at a good clip.. If the biker were to come upon a person moving slower, they would likely swerve out into the road to avoid hitting them - which in turn would cause further traffic problems..

Sometimes it seems like a no-win situation for everyone involved - including the drivers of vehicles.. I guess everyone just needs to be extremely careful at all times..

 

[Poohforyou]

Thank you for being reasonable and not repeating the old :they have a right to be there". I know they do. I do know that some drivers are most likely rude and I have heard of drivers throwing things at bikers and spitting. These people are low life as far as I am concerned and I will just leave it at that. What else can you say, well nothing that can be repeated here on the Dis.

Just as you are afraid of cars, I am very terrified that I will hit a biker, through no fault of my own. Again, with 3 or 4 across if one of them were to hit something or a bump in the road or had to swerve for anything the biker next to him would literally be on top of my car or worse plastered on the front of it. They are no more than a couple of inches apart. And they are no more than about 12 inches from my SUV. I have no doubt that I would win, but it isn't a war I want to be in. I don't want to hit or hurt anyone. There is no room for error, and the fact that certain ones seem to think that road rules don't apply is very frustrating, especially when you are trying and praying that one of them doesn't fall into you.

I will say that they do seem to be slowing down and I see more of it on the weekends in the AM. Much better time, and to me, seems much safer. Maybe someone did complain, and they got the message.

Again, have you called the police when you've seen a group run a red light or done something else that was dangerous/against the law? Nothing will change if people don't speak up. Go to your local council meeting. Get others to complain as well.

As a rider I hate careless riders almost as much as careless drivers.

 

[escape]

Thank you for being reasonable and not repeating the old :they have a right to be there". I know they do. I do know that some drivers are most likely rude and I have heard of drivers throwing things at bikers and spitting. These people are low life as far as I am concerned and I will just leave it at that. What else can you say, well nothing that can be repeated here on the Dis.

Just as you are afraid of cars, I am very terrified that I will hit a biker, through no fault of my own. Again, with 3 or 4 across if one of them were to hit something or a bump in the road or had to swerve for anything the biker next to him would literally be on top of my car or worse plastered on the front of it. They are no more than a couple of inches apart. And they are no more than about 12 inches from my SUV. I have no doubt that I would win, but it isn't a war I want to be in. I don't want to hit or hurt anyone. There is no room for error, and the fact that certain ones seem to think that road rules don't apply is very frustrating, especially when you are trying and praying that one of them doesn't fall into you.

I will say that they do seem to be slowing down and I see more of it on the weekends in the AM. Much better time, and to me, seems much safer. Maybe someone did complain, and they got the message.

As a fellow motorist, I share your concern. As you said, the cyclists have every right to be there; they don't, however, have the right to create dangerous conditions. I hope someone and others complained and continue to do so as long as the problem exists.

Sometimes it seems like a no-win situation for everyone involved - including the drivers of vehicles.. I guess everyone just needs to be extremely careful at all times..

....and respectful of others. There may be an occassion where a motorist needs to slow down for just a very short period of time. There may be a time that a cyclist needs to move over some when possible. Respect, common courtesy and obeying the traffic laws is a win-win situation for both sides.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Saw two things and it immediately reminded me of this thread:

Group 1: a group of disabled vets cycling on Memorial Day according to the rules of the road--cycling safely and admirably. (Cyclists were the traditional bikes as well as the hand-pedaled bikes.) No issues AND they were obeying traffic laws.


Situation #2: The moron this morning while I was driving to the gym. I swear he was coming head on in my line. The only thing that caused me to slow down was a weird reflection that turned out to be his safety vest. Otherwise--it was pitch black dark and I could not see him. No lights, no nothing! I have no issues with anyone being on the road--but please, use proper safety gear. Based on how I saw him riding, the reason I suddenly caught the "weird reflection" was that he moved his arm so that the reflective strips were visible. Because after the flash, his arms covered it back up.

I'm okay with cyclists and will acknowledge their rights. But I have no interest in playing a literal game of CHICKEN.

Based on his manner of riding, he was using his bicycle has his mode of transportation versus cycling for sport. Head on into traffic with virtually no way to make him visible is going to kill him.

 

[ckay87]

I live in an area heavily populated with Amish. I get to deal a massive amount of cyclists as well as horses, buggies, horse-and-buggies, and farm equipment. Those are WAY slower than cyclists (and some runners!) and sidewalks are obviously not an option for them. So we have to be ready for any kind of vehicle moving at any kind of speed. Runners and cyclists are the least of our worries. Be a good driver and realize that it's not just motorized vehicles out there. It's just the way it is.

(and don't even get me started on the fact that there should be even MORE non-motorized vehicles on the road. That's another thread!!)

 

[kaytieeldr]

If there are cars nearby, we stop at all lights and stop signs.

Just so you know, and just as with any other vehicle using the roadway, it doesn't matter if there are cars nearby or not. Bicyclists still have to obey all road rules, signs, and signals.

Don't let the fact that most motorists ignore these lull you into a false sense of security they'll always do more damage to you than you will to them.

 

[FireDancer]

Just so you know, and just as with any other vehicle using the roadway, it doesn't matter if there are cars nearby or not. Bicyclists still have to obey all road rules, signs, and signals.

Don't let the fact that most motorists ignore these lull you into a false sense of security they'll always do more damage to you than you will to them.

That isn't actually true. In many states, for example, a cyclist can continue through a red light after they have stopped and deemed it safe to continue. A lot of times the cyclist isn't large or heavy enough to trigger the light change. Some states (Idaho famously) also allow cyclists in certain situations to use a stop sign and even red lights as a yield sign. It is up to cyclists and motorists to know the laws in their state of course and safety should be the first concern, especially for the cyclist.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Well, I'm from Massachusetts - and our rules, rule Many of our traffic lights are designed to be triggered by bicycles. They have signs instructing the cyclist to pull up to the marked stop line to trigger the light change.

Guess you'll just have to move, FireDancer

 

[SAHDad]

Then she's the only cyclist I have ever heard of who has actually gotten a ticket for not following the law. I mean, I know lots of people (perhaps even including myself) who have gotten a ticket when driving a car but I have never seen or heard of a cyclist getting a traffic ticket. Until now.

I suppose a bike going fast could do some serious damage if it got involved in an accident with a pedestrian schoolchild (like what one could reasonably expect in a school-zone).

agnes!

In college, that was called "being schwinned", and resulted in about one or two serious (meaning, broken bone) injuries per month. And, FWIW - an accident involving a pedestrian and a cyclist moving at some speed results in injury to everyone involved, possibly seriously.

Bikes are vehicles, and subject to the rules of the road. If you are upset with them because they are not following the rules of the road, first, make sure that you are correct that they are not following them. And then, complain to the local authorities. As a sometime cyclist, let me tell you that rude and problematic cyclists make biking a lot harder. But hating all cyclists would be like me hating all cars - and since I have been hit by more than a couple of cars, while following the rules of the road, I might have cause.

 

[Deb in IA]

What is the average number of steps in a mile? 2,640.

So, when I'm out on my 5 mile run, that is an average of 13,200 steps, or 26,400 for a 10 miler.

Given the fact the every stride generates 3 to 4 times body weight in stress across the knees, yes, there is a HUGE difference whether I do that on concrete or asphalt.

As a runner, I always run AGAINST traffic. When I see a car coming, I go way into the side, off the road, into the shoulder. If there is no shoulder, I will gladly run along weeds and even into ditches. I get back on when the car is past.

 

[stego]

Maslek/OP;

I'll share with you why I personally don't use a sidewalk as a runner/cyclist.

As a runner:
Concrete is just brutal as a surface. Asphalt is not MUCH better, but it is better. I've been doing distance running for about 33 years, and I am afraid to say I'm used to NOT running on the sidewalk. However, that's not to say I don't ever. My usual running route is on very low motor traffic neighborhood streets, that of course, include sidwalks. There is one very shorthish road section that completes my loop that has no sidwalk at all; and no shoulder. As I am mindful of motor traffic, I absolutely have no interest/intent of slowing traffic down. So if I can, I'll pull off to the side and run in the grass. I have to be careful because it is sloped, and there is lots of trash.

As a cyclist:
Since I live geographically in the central TX area, there are a few places that it is against the law to ride on those specific sidewalks. Think the University of Texas and high pedestrian traffic. I very rarely go into that area, period.

As a bicycle commuter, my average pacing is about 14mph, maybe a little faster. When I commute to work, I take roads that have bike lanes. It works for me, and I feel comfortable using the bike lanes. Many people ask me: don't you feel uncomfortable? I do at times, but it's very infrequent.

The short sections that I do use an MUT, I limit my speed to 10-12 mph. This seems to be the general guideline that I have found on numerous cycling forums. I always use my bell to signify a pass, as well as calling out: single cyclist to pass on your left. It's important to me to demonstrate to other trail users good behavior.

When I do my intervals on the road, my speeds on the bike usually exceed 25mph. If you do some research, you'll see average bike speeds in excess of that (in my case, it's just a guideline). At my initial scouting, I realized it would be difficult to find a non-interuptive course of no stopping at bike speeds of 25mph for 10-15 min interval length. So I found low traffic neighborhood roads with a short circuit. It's not perfect, but my circuit does not have any stop signs. If it did, I'd stop. No and's if's or but's. It's just that going that speed on a bike near pedestrians is unsafe.

I thought it would be most helpful to you to share my own specific and personal experience because I see so many other behaviors; those are NOT reflective of me.

It is my responsibility to be have thorough knowledge of the traffic laws in my area. How those laws are created, and enforced, are NOT up to me. Nor should I open my big friggin' mouth; when I do that, I always get the response I deserve.

I don't do road group rides, because they have a tendency to disregard the traffic laws. It used to enrage me; now it just irks me. I can't change the behaviors of others, but I can change how I react to their behaviors.

Some time ago, the local news channel ran a brief segment on cyclists running a stop sign in an Austin neighborhood. The report stated that only 3% did the full stop. It's frustrating to know that I'm NOT special because I am in that 3 %. My take: the sins of many reflect upon the few. Oh, just lovely (stego shakes his head).

I'm just much happier when I can be a considerate and polite law-abiding citizen in my community.

 

[Handbag Lady]

I believe it is legal in my state for bikes to share the road with us car drivers.

However, you are an idiot if you, while on a bike, thread your way to the front of the row of cars at a red light and get in front of the left-laners.

In all seriousness, most cars get annoyed by you as you are now slowing down the entire lane. In my case, I have no issues sharing the road with you, if you, as a cyclist, can handle me nearly side-swiping you because since you think you are a car, I'm not slowing down. I believe this is also legal.

 

[John VN]

A funny must watch video where the bicyclist gets his comeupence....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jWvAxjG0kg

 

[Green Tea]

As a runner, I always run AGAINST traffic. When I see a car coming, I go way into the side, off the road, into the shoulder. If there is no shoulder, I will gladly run along weeds and even into ditches. I get back on when the car is past.

I do this too. Most drivers give me a wave and I wave back. I had no idea there was so much animosity about runners until I read this.

 

[SAHDad]

I do this too. Most drivers give me a wave and I wave back. I had no idea there was so much animosity about runners until I read this.

It depends on the area. Where I run, I can rely on one or two cars a week thinking it is funny to "buzz" me - as in, let's swerve toward the runner, and see if we can run him off the road. A couple have gotten ticked at me when they have caught my water-bottle (hand-held) - because it makes a pretty audible thump when it hits the car. And yes, in a couple of cases, I have smacked a car with my water bottle - if I can hit you without moving more than a couple of inches, you were too $*(& close.

And, FWIW - as I said, I run facing traffic. (And, again - I have to run more than a mile to find the closest sidewalk - and two miles in the other direction to find the next one.) I am either on the white line, or (more usually) to the left of it - meaning, I am on the shoulder. In order to buzz me, the cars are actually having to drive onto the shoulder. And I doubt that many motorists in my area are aware that the shoulder is only about 18 inches wide, and then has a three foot drop. Someday, someone is going to buzz me, hopefully miss, and drop their car into the ditch.

I understand that many cyclists break the laws regarding rules of the road. But, if most drivers treated other cars they way they treat cyclists ("side-swiping you because since you think you are a car, I'm not slowing down" - really?), they would be at risk for being ticketed for reckless driving.

 

[scrapquitler]

When you are jogging, running, walking or even riding your bike when there are sidewalks available, why do most of these people use the road instead of the sidewalk?

Actually (at least here) it is ILLEGAL to ride a bike on the sidewalk. Sidewalks are for pedestrians, bikes are vehicles.

 

[FireDancer]

I do this too. Most drivers give me a wave and I wave back. I had no idea there was so much animosity about runners until I read this.

I am pretty lucky where I run because I have never had anyone come close and drivers are pretty courteous when passing.

I also run against traffic, that is the safest, but the roads I run on usually don't have a lot of cars so I can switch sides of the road when cars are coming.