Joggers, Runners & Bikers....please explain?

Here is the whole statute since I guess I am just quoting my own points--

169.222 OPERATION OF BICYCLE.

Subdivision 1.Traffic laws apply. Every person operating a bicycle shall have all of the rights and duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle by this chapter, except in respect to those provisions in this chapter relating expressly to bicycles and in respect to those provisions of this chapter which by their nature cannot reasonably be applied to bicycles.
Subd. 2.Manner and number riding. No bicycle shall be used to carry more persons at one time than the number for which it is designed and equipped, except (1) on a baby seat attached to the bicycle, provided that the baby seat is equipped with a harness to hold the child securely in the seat and that protection is provided against the child's feet hitting the spokes of the wheel or (2) in a seat attached to the bicycle operator.
Subd. 3.Clinging to vehicle. Persons riding upon any bicycle, coaster, roller skates, toboggan, sled, skateboard, or toy vehicle shall not attach the same or themselves to any street car or vehicle upon a roadway.
Subd. 4.Riding on roadway or shoulder. (a) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction;

(2) when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway;

(3) when reasonably necessary to avoid conditions, including fixed or moving objects, vehicles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or narrow width lanes, that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge.

(b) If a bicycle is traveling on a shoulder of a roadway, the bicycle shall travel in the same direction as adjacent vehicular traffic.

(c) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway or shoulder shall not ride more than two abreast and shall not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic and, on a laned roadway, shall ride within a single lane.

(d) A person operating a bicycle upon a sidewalk, or across a roadway or shoulder on a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal when necessary before overtaking and passing any pedestrian. No person shall ride a bicycle upon a sidewalk within a business district unless permitted by local authorities. Local authorities may prohibit the operation of bicycles on any sidewalk or crosswalk under their jurisdiction.

(e) An individual operating a bicycle or other vehicle on a bikeway shall leave a safe distance when overtaking a bicycle or individual proceeding in the same direction on the bikeway, and shall maintain clearance until safely past the overtaken bicycle or individual.

(f) A person lawfully operating a bicycle on a sidewalk, or across a roadway or shoulder on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances.

Subd. 5.Carrying articles. No person operating a bicycle shall carry any package, bundle, or article which prevents the driver from keeping at least one hand upon the handle bars or from properly operating the brakes of the bicycle.
Subd. 6.Bicycle equipment. (a) No person shall operate a bicycle at nighttime unless the bicycle or its operator is equipped with a lamp which shall emit a white light visible from a distance of at least 500 feet to the front and with a red reflector of a type approved by the Department of Public Safety which is visible from all distances from 100 feet to 600 feet to the rear when directly in front of lawful lower beams of headlamps on a motor vehicle. No person may operate a bicycle at any time when there is not sufficient light to render persons and vehicles on the highway clearly discernible at a distance of 500 feet ahead unless the bicycle or its operator is equipped with reflective surfaces that shall be visible during the hours of darkness from 600 feet when viewed in front of lawful lower beams of headlamps on a motor vehicle. The reflective surfaces shall include reflective materials on each side of each pedal to indicate their presence from the front or the rear and with a minimum of 20 square inches of reflective material on each side of the bicycle or its operator. Any bicycle equipped with side reflectors as required by regulations for new bicycles prescribed by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission shall be considered to meet the requirements for side reflectorization contained in this subdivision. A bicycle may be equipped with a rear lamp that emits a red flashing signal.
(b) No person shall operate a bicycle unless it is equipped with a brake which will enable the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement.

(c) No person shall operate upon a highway any bicycle equipped with handlebars so raised that the operator must elevate the hands above the level of the shoulders in order to grasp the normal steering grip area.

(d) No person shall operate upon a highway any bicycle which is of such a size as to prevent the operator from stopping the bicycle, supporting it with at least one foot on the highway surface and restarting in a safe manner.

Subd. 7.Sale with reflectors and other equipment. No person shall sell or offer for sale any new bicycle unless it is equipped with reflectors and other equipment as required by subdivision 6, clauses (a) and (b) and by the regulations for new bicycles prescribed by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission.
Subd. 8.Turning, lane change. An arm signal to turn right or left shall be given continuously during the last 100 feet traveled by the bicycle before turning, unless the arm is needed to control the bicycle, and shall be given while the bicycle is stopped waiting to turn.
Subd. 9.Bicycle parking. (a) A person may park a bicycle on a sidewalk unless prohibited or restricted by local authorities. A bicycle parked on a sidewalk shall not impede the normal and reasonable movement of pedestrian or other traffic.
(b) A bicycle may be parked on a roadway at any location where parking is allowed if it is parked in such a manner that it does not obstruct the movement of a legally parked motor vehicle.

Subd. 10.Bicycle events. (a) Bicycle events, parades, contests, or racing on a highway shall not be unlawful when approved by state or local authorities having jurisdiction over that highway. Approval shall be granted only under conditions which assure reasonable safety for all participants, spectators and other highway users, and which prevent unreasonable interference with traffic flow which would seriously inconvenience other highway users.
(b) By agreement with the approving authority, participants in an approved bicycle highway event may be exempted from compliance with any traffic laws otherwise applicable thereto, provided that traffic control is adequate to assure the safety of all highway users.

Subd. 11.Peace officer operating bicycle. The provisions of this section governing operation of bicycles do not apply to bicycles operated by peace officers while performing their duties.
History: 1978 c 739 s 12; 1986 c 444; 1987 c 255 s 14; 1993 c 326 art 4 s 2; art 7 s 2; 1995 c 72 s 2

No reference that the bike path MUST be used in lieu of the roadway when available at all in this law.

Additionally, nowhere did I state or imply that a cyclist did not have to obey traffic laws just like the cars.

You just don't seem to like cyclists on a roadway at all (stated to mean the legal use of the roadway as it pertains to your written law, inclusive of a bike lane or shoulder area).

You keep quoting the law stating they have to use the bike path. But they don't. Not according to law.:confused3

Gotta run somewhere.

All stay safe on the road or path or wherever your feet, bike tires or automotive vehicle wheels take you.:thumbsup2
 
Back in April we were traveling the minor road (not Interstate) between Houston and Austin and encountered the largest group of cyclests EVER.
The had completely blocked the slow lane of the 4 lane highway for them-it was hundreds of bikes-a charity ride

So glad we were traveling on opposite side-the traffic was bumper to bumper for miles and miles:sad2:
 
I have yet to see any bicyclist get a ticket.

agnes!

My sister got a ticket for going 23 MPH in a 20 MPH school zone on her bike. She didn't have a speedometer on her bike but she bought one after that. :lmao:

Back in April we were traveling the minor road (not Interstate) between Houston and Austin and encountered the largest group of cyclests EVER.
The had completely blocked the slow lane of the 4 lane highway for them-it was hundreds of bikes-a charity ride

So glad we were traveling on opposite side-the traffic was bumper to bumper for miles and miles:sad2:

So there shouldn't be road races or charity rides because one lane of trafic gets closed down?
 
My sister got a ticket for going 23 MPH in a 20 MPH school zone on her bike. She didn't have a speedometer on her bike but she bought one after that. :lmao: ...

Then she's the only cyclist I have ever heard of who has actually gotten a ticket for not following the law. I mean, I know lots of people (perhaps even including myself) who have gotten a ticket when driving a car but I have never seen or heard of a cyclist getting a traffic ticket. Until now.

I suppose a bike going fast could do some serious damage if it got involved in an accident with a pedestrian schoolchild (like what one could reasonably expect in a school-zone).

agnes!
 

The had completely blocked the slow lane of the 4 lane highway for them-it was hundreds of bikes-a charity ride

So glad we were traveling on opposite side-the traffic was bumper to bumper for miles and miles:sad2:

It is pretty unsafe to be riding on the shoulder of the highway with all the glass, trash, and other debris. So the only option is to ride in a proper lane. Even if they were riding single file the vehicles in the right line would need to move over into the left lane to maintain 3ft of separation while passing. Therefore it really didn't matter whether they were riding 4 abreast or single file; in fact, taking the entire lane allowed the group be more compact which made the passing distance shorter.
 
Well, our property taxes are a 1/3rd of what most people pay in NJ (I would HATE your property taxes too). I also think that if you read my posts I don't have any issues with bike riders that DO obey the laws but as I have stated, many don't and then THEY get mad at the cars when the bike riders are in the wrong.

I have no problem with my property taxes. We live in a beautiful safe area and our daughter is getting a top notch education. Can't ask for much more than that.
 
I am not ignoring those points at all and YES, they are deliberately driving as close to the car lane-or in the car lane as possible. If they are in the lane where they are supposed to an temporarily move over to avoid something, fine, but that is not what I am talking about. If you watch them from miles out, they are in the car lane or on the white line and as you approach, they don't move over and then give you dirty looks if YOU don't move-nevermind there is no place for the CAR to move.

No, I am not a racer but I do ride a bike and I do obey the laws--and ride on the BIKE PATH.

I find myself in the rare situation of agreeing with you 100%. THis has been my exact experience and it happens in rush hour traffic and they hold up traffic. I know legally they are entitled, but I don't care, IMHO< they have no business on the road.
 
SAHDad said:
And, as others noted - lots of people zip out of their driveways, and can easily plow into a runner on the sidewalk, simply because they are not expecting them.
Those people zipping out of driveways without looking/seeing joggers or walkERs on the sidewalk are equally likely not to see the same pedestrians two or feet later, on the street. Anyone with a driveway that crosses a sidewalk should be responsible enough to stop and look before the sidewalk.

Lisa loves Pooh said:
In Minnesota, the road is part of the network. I could not find any law that said if a bike path is 10 feet away, that it was compulsory to use that instead.

My chicken self would have chosen what I felt to be the safer option, but I don't understand why folks believe that a cyclist does not have a choice under the law.
But wouldn't the law also stipulate some illegality or other related to traveling ON a lane divider?

Poohforyou said:
We have lots of bike paths here as well and since they are near tree lines are littered with twigs, leaves, and pods. All these are very dangerous for someone on a road bike. The tires on them are very narrow and cannot handle the impact of something like that the way a hybrid tire can. A road bike rider could wipe out just by hitting something like that at a high speed.
Is there a reason the cyclists can't clean up the bike path themselves, or at least notify the entity responsible for it of the hazard and get them to clean it and make it safe?
As I said in an earlier post the shoulders of roads are usually littered with debris (rock, glass, twigs etc) so that requires someone on a road bike to ride close to the white line. For me personally I avoid heavily traveled roads as much as possible but sometimes I have no choice. Trust me, I don't want a car near me and pay careful attention to what is going on around me.
But it would be highly unusual if the entire ten foot width of the adjacent bike lane was so consistently littered that the cyclist's only option was to ride on the white line marking the right side of the right driving lane.
 
Where I live, accidents are classified as either 100, 75, 50, 25% at fault (or no fault). When a bicycle or pedestrian is involved the driver of the motor vehicle is always at fault, no matter what. That's the problem I have with this. If cyclists are not allowed on the sidewalks (and they aren't) then they should be treated as all the other vehicles are. Pedestrians too, if it's their stupid behaviour that causes them to be involved in an accident IMO they should be faulted, not the driver.

However, I'm aware this won't be a popular opinion.
It may not be popular, but I agree with you!
 
Those people zipping out of driveways without looking/seeing joggers or walkERs on the sidewalk are equally likely not to see the same pedestrians two or feet later, on the street. Anyone with a driveway that crosses a sidewalk should be responsible enough to stop and look before the sidewalk.

But wouldn't the law also stipulate some illegality or other related to traveling ON a lane divider?

Is there a reason the cyclists can't clean up the bike path themselves, or at least notify the entity responsible for it of the hazard and get them to clean it and make it safe?But it would be highly unusual if the entire ten foot width of the adjacent bike lane was so consistently littered that the cyclist's only option was to ride on the white line marking the right side of the right driving lane.

If you read my earlier posts the bike paths are fine if you have a bike with hybrid or off road tires. My DD rides on them with her bike without a problem. We don't have paths on every single road though. They're mostly through residential neighborhoods. I mostly go out and ride a mountain range near our house which is all back country roads with no sidewalks or bike paths.

The twigs, leaves and pods only pose a risk to those of us that have thin road tires. As someone who's wiped out after hitting debris I now ride on the cleanest part of the road. As far as alerting someone of the situation, there would have to be a road cleaner out 24/7 since every strong breeze brings something down. As for as cleaning it myself, I don't think a broom would fit in my jersey pocket.

As for riding closer to the white line than the edge of the road every time a car goes by on a road the wind it create pushes stuff towards the edge of the roadway which makes it less safe to ride on. Everyone I ride with stays as far right of the white line as is safe. Unfortunately some roads are worse than others.
 
Back in April we were traveling the minor road (not Interstate) between Houston and Austin and encountered the largest group of cyclests EVER.
The had completely blocked the slow lane of the 4 lane highway for them-it was hundreds of bikes-a charity ride

So glad we were traveling on opposite side-the traffic was bumper to bumper for miles and miles:sad2:

That was the BP MS-150. It is an annual two day bike ride with thousands of riders and it raises millions of dollars to help find a cure for MS.

Most people in the area are very supportive of it.
 
How does THAT work? So, if a bike rider is riding on the road, a car must move over into oncoming traffic to pass the biker or slow down and follow the bike until it is safe to pass??? There are also laws on the books about impeding traffic, also illegal. Does the biker have to move over 3' if there is oncoming traffic??

Fl. bicycle information. Scroll down and lower right for information that might answer your ???s

http://floridabicycle.org/rules/bikelaw.html
 
Poohforyou said:
If you read my earlier posts the bike paths are fine if you have a bike with hybrid or off road tires. My DD rides on them with her bike without a problem. We don't have paths on every single road though. They're mostly through residential neighborhoods. I mostly go out and ride a mountain range near our house which is all back country roads with no sidewalks or bike paths.
Ah, okay. You're talking about bike lanes - specially-designated lanes painted on the public roadways for use by bicyclists.

In calling them bike paths, it sounds very much like you mean the same thing golfgal does and what a bike path is to me (based on local experience): a path or trail designed and designated for bicycle (and pedestrian, and snowmobile in winter if you don't get caught ;)) use, but NOT for motor vehicles such as cars, motorcycles, scooters, etc.
 
Ah, okay. You're talking about bike lanes - specially-designated lanes painted on the public roadways for use by bicyclists.

In calling them bike paths, it sounds very much like you mean the same thing golfgal does and what a bike path is to me (based on local experience): a path or trail designed and designated for bicycle (and pedestrian, and snowmobile in winter if you don't get caught ;)) use, but NOT for motor vehicles such as cars, motorcycles, scooters, etc.

No, I'm not talking about designated lanes. I'm talking about paved paths that are separated from the road by a strip of grass. They are paved with black top and are different than the cement paver sidewalks.

Where I ride on the street is on the edge of the road closest to the curb as possible if there is one or on the shoulder closest to the edge of the road. How far I am from cars is dependent on the quality of the road.
 
That was the BP MS-150. It is an annual two day bike ride with thousands of riders and it raises millions of dollars to help find a cure for MS.

Most people in the area are very supportive of it.

Sorry, but if it slows lanes up on a major highway for an extended period of time, I wouldn't support it. There are other ways to raise money without inconveniencing others.
 
Sorry, but if it slows lanes up on a major highway for an extended period of time, I wouldn't support it. There are other ways to raise money without inconveniencing others.

If you read the originally comment it was NOT a major highway being blocked. Looking at the map for the ride it looks like it only follows some rural state and US highways.
 
That was the BP MS-150. It is an annual two day bike ride with thousands of riders and it raises millions of dollars to help find a cure for MS.

Most people in the area are very supportive of it.

I love the charity or fundraiser rides that get some road or lane closures. It makes for a much better riding experience.

Those people zipping out of driveways without looking/seeing joggers or walkERs on the sidewalk are equally likely not to see the same pedestrians two or feet later, on the street. Anyone with a driveway that crosses a sidewalk should be responsible enough to stop and look before the sidewalk.

Unfortunately a lot of people zip down their driveways, past the sidewalks, but stop at the street to look for other cars before continuing. In the best case scenario they see the cyclist or runner and wait for them to pass. In the worse case you see them and can begin to stop or more over to avoid a collision. While they should be smart enough to stop and look before the sidewalk I don't trust my fellow man nearly enough to put my life in their hands while flying down the sidewalk at 20+ mph.

This is another situation where it is best to be a bit further from the curb. Not only could trees on the treelawn obstruct your view or the reversing motorists view but a motorist who is looking for another car will look more center on the lane and if you are cycling there as opposed to right against the curb you are more likely to be seen.
 
If you read the originally comment it was NOT a major highway being blocked. Looking at the map for the ride it looks like it only follows some rural state and US highways.

Ok. let me rephrase that. If it clogs up any highway that is used fairly regularly, I am against it. Sorry. If it is a road that pretty much no one uses, then yep I am fine with it. Where live you can divide us into 2 groups, the bikers and the bike haters. That pretty much sums it up.
 


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