Jim Hill article on Project Gemini

[HB2K]

Hey, Fab, I know you worked really hard on changing that art from color photo to b/w line map so it couldn't be traced...but can I use it for a funny joke on my discussion board?

Why, sure, JC! No problem, since you were polite and considerate enough to ask first!

Fab

<Shaking head>

Fab,

I love Jim's article as much as the next person. I've written to him in the past conveying that. But to get upset that someone took an image which you had no apparent legal right to in the first place is a bit of calling the kettle black isn't it?

I mean if you're worried about converting the map so that the source can't be traced, I doubt Disney gave JimHillMedia.com permission to place it on their website and PROFIT from it's use.

JC...funny spoof.

 

[raidermatt]

Wow – “you stole my stolen map!!!!! How unethical!!!!!”. Kinda funny.

You know, that really IS funny.

 

[ChrisFL]

Originally posted by rpink58
They keep mentioning how younger kids donot want to return to EPCOT. I am 42 and have been to WDW every year since 94 and EPCOT is the park my family visit the least. We never go more than once during our stay . If they beefed up the attractions and change it just a little every now and then , the curiosity would be peaked and you would want to go more often. It all goes back to spending a little money every year instead of waiting 20 years down the road and have to fork out an astronomical amount to make it a viable park again.

I agree.

My dad worked for EPCOT twice, he helped to open the park, and I was about 5 when it opened. I've always loved the park up until they started changing everything. I'd want to go there more than MK, but I was always a fan of science and the views of the future.

I'm also now a fan of thrill rides, and I enjoy Test Track, BUT I don't feel that EPCOT needs this to survive. Soarin' is a good idea, a revamp of Spaceship Earth is a good idea, if only because the ride system is so outdated and has always been a bit uncomfortable with the bumps.

Anyone wonder what happened to all this new technology that Disney was either purchasing or developing? Where's CAVE? Was it cut with all the imagineers?

IMO, EPCOT is screaming for some real futuristic technology to get the teens involved. I'm not saying they have to be interactive, though it can make attractions interesting. Heck, I even enjoyed most of Innoventions every time I was there (up until yr. 2000)

Spaceship Earth can be a more intense ride without being a ride that can make people sick. Even World of Motion, with it's wrap-around screens was very cool, but not physically intense.

Alien Encounter showed us that Disney can make a full sensory attraction, and you don't move at all.

Maybe Disney should make some new attrations like Disney Quest has, put them in the Innoventions building, so they can make the real DQ the new ESPN Zone. Also:

Make a CAVE attraction for Energy (sorry, there are enough Dinosaur attractions around now, that aren't as slow).

Save the Land attraction, but liven it up a bit, and create a new area for Soarin' (although I don't know the size it takes for it)

The Living Seas would be fine with Sebastian et. al. to liven it up a bit.

Scrap the Imagination disaster and create a new attraction more like the original that EVERYONE liked (although my dad said they always had trouble with the ride system, they've got a new one I believe)

Test Track is fine, and we'll have to see what M:S will be.

Use another new technology for some existing area of Wonders of Life, there are so many possibilites they could do there.

Quickly, about the World Showcase, I'd be happy with more museum type places, without them being gift shops.

 

[wtg2000]

There have been a number of changes at EPCOT since I first visited in 1986, at least as many as at MK.

What's really happened at MK in that time? Adventureland - nothing until a recent cheap addtion. Frontierland - Splash Mtn - a major attraction but the only one in 17 years. Fantasyland - they took out the subs and Toad, put in Pooh and have changed the theatre show a couple times (Magic Journeys, Lion King etc). Tomorrowland has seen the most changes with AE replacing MtoM, the Buzz building going through several changes, the addition and subtraction of TimeKeeper.

It's not a huge bunch of stuff for 17 years (sorry - forgot about the very nice kiddie land) and you'll notice that most of them took place in Tomorrowland - where the future is coming fast!

Future World opened in 1982 with very expensive attractions. They have to last a few years to get your money's worth. Not to mention that they are all monsters and not easy to just rip out and replace.

Still, in that time we've had Wonders of Life, Test Track, Mission: Space, and redos at Engery, Spaceship, Journey, a new Land movie plus Captain Eo then Honey. Not to mention that funky daytime show they tried once with the Monster on a stick. And we've had Innoventions.

Again, that's at least as many changes as in the MK. And probably more expensive. I guess the attractions at MK are more endearing and timeless. How does BTMR go out of style? It can't really. It's the old west. It's already old. But for some reason, futuristic shows tend not to weather the passage of time.

I'm not sure that EPCOT has been neglected so much as they just don't know what to do with it - for the right price. Perhaps having smaller attractions that could be changed easier rather than giant dedicated pavilions would be best. Divide the sides of FW into 'lands' and with the left side being the 'tech' side and the right the 'nature' or 'science' side (Land, Sea, etc).

 

[Testtrack321]

Epcot is about new and exciting technologies and creating a new world. I can see this through Mission: Space, but an off the shelf standard Vekoma SLC?!?!?!

Granted, Soarin' is great, but Epcot deserves better than a re-hash of a DCA attraction.

 

[roymccoy]

I think it's ironic how the thinking at Disney has changed over the last decade or so. It wasn't long ago that Epcot was coming to the west coast (as Wescot) and that plan morphed (oozed?) into DCA. Now, DCA is coming to Epcot? (ala Soaring clone, off the shelf roller coaster, etc) Do they think that DCA was successful enough to copy?? (sic)
Tell me again why I'm going to want to travel to WDW when the parks have the same rides as DLR? Can anyone in WDI come up with a NEW idea?

Roy

P.S. We just recently came back from WDW and I picked Spaceship Earth as my favorite ride! It's so "Walt" ! (My 3.5 year old loved it, too)

 

[ohanafamily]

Roy, Cherish the memory. As you are probable aware AT&T dropped the sponsorship of the ride 1/31/2003, Things are a going to change.

 

[wtg2000]

I don't think it's that WDI can't come up with new ideas, it's that they can't get management to implement all of them. And also, if you spend a lot of money researching a technology and a concept, then it makes sense to use it more than once. It's like Pizza Hut coming up with a new topping but only using it in one location.

I see nothing wrong with putting successful rides into other parks. For example, I loved Stormrider at Tokyo Disney Sea, and since most people over here won't go over there, why not bring it over here?

I do see a problem with a thrill ride at the entrance to EPCOT. Firstly, EPCOT is the only park that has an attraction at its front gate. At the other parks you have to stroll. If people pay their money and walk in to see a ride that eliminates them due to myriad factors, I think it will turn them off. Especially if half the family can ride it and half can't. It might work someplace else in the park, but I think the golf ball has to have something that can get everybody's day off to a good start. Maybe they could put Time Racers where Wonders of Life is.

 

[roymccoy]

I have to disagree with the Pizza Hut analogy. Disney's core strength is the uniqueness of their parks. Walt made sure that each ride at DL was a little gem, each different from the other. Even rides that are basically patterned after each other (ie Dumbo and the Astro-Orbiter) were bulit to look and feel like a totally different ride experience. When I hear that the Imagineers are "tired of keeping up the FutureWorld theme" I weep for Disney's future. You know what I say to Imagineers that are tired? Go get a job designing milk cartons or something. Why don't we rename Tomorrowland "Presentland" and make it a shopping mall or something. (I know,I know...it already is!) I'm not saying that they shouldn't spend money on Epcot, I'm saying that the plans presented don't look that good to begin with, and you know what we'll end up with...there'll be a little stage being pulled by a car with a "Lilo and Stitch II" show on it...and we can't forget about the shops...OH THE SHOPS...glorious "Discoveryland" shops where we can buy....Mickey plush, Goofy trains, Princess pullovers, etc.

I'm just saying that it looks like the same crew that ruined DCA is designing this fancy overlay. Maybe they should just leave well enough alone and use the $500 million for thicker toilet paper or real coffee!

Roy

 

[wtg2000]

Disney's core strength is the uniqueness of their parks. Walt made sure that each ride at DL was a little gem, each different from the other.

True. However, Walt did plan to build another Magic Kingdom in Florida and to recreate rides from Disneyland. And Walt didn't have almost a dozen parks worldwide to worry about and design attractions for.

If you look at EPCOT - it's the most unique park there is with no recreated attractions from other parks (except for the Body Wars technology and the 360 movies concept), and I guess I can see a desire to keep it that way.

 

[ChrisFL]

Originally posted by roymccoy
When I hear that the Imagineers are "tired of keeping up the FutureWorld theme" I weep for Disney's future.

While I do see your point in a way, the problem is that when you have the huge attractions, like Test Track and Spaceship Earth, it's difficult to keep these attractions looking past current technology, espeically since current technology is advancing faster than ever.

So, in a way, I agree that it may be way too costly to try to constantly update large attractions to make them futuristic.

 

[iluvdisney]

Makes for some interesting reading but I'm not sure that Disney could afford all those changes - seems like a lot to do without closing down a park. Will have to think this one out.