J.Lewis May be In Running To Be DL Prez....

But wasn't that made pretty clear in the documents we all signed at purchase? That Disney was pretty much in control from day one?

Yes it was clear but I had hoped that they had the memberships best interest in mind and I assumed that they had some accountability. Lately I feel like their focus is 85% sales and profit and 15% member satisfaction.
 
I think from Disney management point of view, the past 6 years have been great for DVC. Look at how many resorts have been built and how many points have been sold. When a manager is evaluated, they look at the profit brought into the company, not if everyone likes him or if the people he is managing (or customers) are happy with his decisions. It's all about the bottom line.
 
I think from Disney management point of view, the past 6 years have been great for DVC. Look at how many resorts have been built and how many points have been sold. When a manager is evaluated, they look at the profit brought into the company, not if everyone likes him or if the people he is managing (or customers) are happy with his decisions. It's all about the bottom line.

Exactly. He wouldn't be in running for DL gig if the Big Mouse didn't think he was doing a good job.
 
What's is more important, Member satisfaction or profit.

To me it's a conflict of interest. Disney makes their money by selling contracts and using the DVC units to rent for cash. The same group is responsible for servicing the membership and properties with no accountability or guarantee of performance.

But that's hardly unique to DVC. Every major timeshare outfit performs both sales and management functions.

There's no question that quality has declined in many areas over the years at WDW. Restaurant menus aren't as good as they used to be. Attractions are not staffed the same as they were a decade ago. Park hours aren't as long. And housekeepers may not be as effective as they were in years past. But I'm not sure how much of that can be controlled by the president of DVC. He (or she) doesn't negotiate the union contracts which determine CM wages. He/she has no control over the fact that WDW needs to employ 60,000 Orlando-area residents at any given time.

As for the dues being manipulated, I'm not sure I can even buy into that. Adding a few pennies to any given resort budget isn't exactly a deal-breaker. BLT debuted with annual dues 15% lower than any other resort. Are there people who are OK with $3.67 per point...but would have chosen not to buy at $3.72 per point?

I am sure if you had surveyed the membership and asked which would you favor; improvements to the exisiting resorts or a new DVC building, I think we all know how that would have gone.

I think you've answered your own question, Sammie. ;)

Seriously though, members didn't pay for a new DVC HQ. That comes out of their own operating budget which is independent of dues.

I agree the "by member request" line is a little tiresome. But I also believe there is more than a grain of truth to it. When you have 3-4 full time employees dedicated to member satisfaction, plus a full sales staff constantly getting feedback from potential customers who decide not to buy, it isn't hard to identify hot button issues. Over the years DVC has received consistent feedback which contributed to things like the booking change (arrival instead of departure) and lowering costs for weekend stays (reallocation.)

What would have happened if these issues had been decided via popular vote? Given all of the hand-wringing that occurred after the booking change was announced, I suspect it would not have been approved by members. And yet in the 18 months since the policy changed, feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. Reports of not getting reservations are few and far between, and the need for day-by-day reservations is gone. That's a textbook example of why DVC won't run the program as a democracy.
 

What would have happened if these issues had been decided via popular vote? Given all of the hand-wringing that occurred after the booking change was announced, I suspect it would not have been approved by members. And yet in the 18 months since the policy changed, feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. Reports of not getting reservations are few and far between, and the need for day-by-day reservations is gone. That's a textbook example of why DVC won't run the program as a democracy.

I don't have a problem with DVC making decisions based on what they feel is the best for the entire membership. I would hope they are smart enough to do so.

I might not agree with the changes or even like them, but I can accept them. I am just sick and tired of everything being labeled decisions based on "member feedback". I feel that is BS and it makes us look like we as a membership will buy anything they feed us as long as they cover it with the standard line of "based on member feedback.

I do have a problem with changes being based on the squeaky wheel members if that is fueling changes.

As to the new office building, glad our dues did not contribute to it, but I feel the money spent could have benefitted the membership more by adding more member satisfaction CMs, having 3-4 is ridiculous for the number of members.

I would respect the DVC leadership more if they just made changes and let it go at that, and quit with the PR spin. This is an aspect of JL that I do not like. He reminds me at times of a sleezy politician talking down to us like we are the uneducated. I am not convinced the change to banking was based on "member feedback" or that it was too difficult for the membership to manage as it was. We all managed it very well before the change. That change was based on what was easiest for DVC not the membership.

I also don't have a problem with sales and expansion as long as it is balanced with taking care of the current membership and the exisiting resorts. If the existing resort and current membership are overlooked for sales and expansion it will not be long before the backlash from that will affect sales.
Current members are not going to be willing to make referrals or do addons if they are overlooked.
 
As for the dues being manipulated, I'm not sure I can even buy into that. Adding a few pennies to any given resort budget isn't exactly a deal-breaker. BLT debuted with annual dues 15% lower than any other resort. Are there people who are OK with $3.67 per point...but would have chosen not to buy at $3.72 per point?

I think that keeping the dues low at all of the resorts is used to benefit sales, not the membership. The Guides will tell you during their sales presentation the Disney has some of the lowest dues in the industry.

Disney knows that most of the membership is unhappy with the maintenance and worn look at most of the resorts. Why not start the new resorts off with slightly increased dues to build a bigger fund for future repairs and maintenance? Why not set the dues at a level that would allow the DVC resorts to be the best looking and maintained resorts at WDW?

Wouldn't it be nice to have people say, "the DVC resorts are the best resorts at WDW". Instead of, "the DVC resorts look beat up because they are a time share and they get more wear because they are always full".
 
I don't have a problem with DVC making decisions based on what they feel is the best for the entire membership. I would hope they are smart enough to do so.

I might not agree with the changes or even like them, but I can accept them. I am just sick and tired of everything being labeled decisions based on "member feedback". I feel that is BS and it makes us look like we as a membership will buy anything they feed us as long as they cover it with the standard line of "based on member feedback.

I do have a problem with changes being based on the squeaky wheel members if that is fueling changes.

As to the new office building, glad our dues did not contribute to it, but I feel the money spent could have benefitted the membership more by adding more member satisfaction CMs, having 3-4 is ridiculous for the number of members.
I would respect the DVC leadership more if they just made changes and let it go at that, and quit with the PR spin. This is an aspect of JL that I do not like. He reminds me at times of a sleezy politician talking down to us like we are the uneducated. I am not convinced the change to banking was based on "member feedback" or that it was too difficult for the membership to manage as it was. We all managed it very well before the change. That change was based on what was easiest for DVC not the membership.

I also don't have a problem with sales and expansion as long as it is balanced with taking care of the current membership and the exisiting resorts. If the existing resort and current membership are overlooked for sales and expansion it will not be long before the backlash from that will affect sales. Current members are not going to be willing to make referrals or do addons if they are overlooked.

These both are 2 different things. The DVC building would have to have been paid for by DVC itself. Member satisfaction CM's would be from dues.

Sales & expansion are paid for by DVC itself. Maintenance of current resorts would be paid for by dues from that resort.

I think some members don't realize what DVC pays for and what is paid for by dues. There was a recent thread about what additional "perks" would you like to see. Some people mentioned additional housekeeping. That would have to come from additional dues, not DVC or Disney. Someone else recently complained that BC got updates but BCV did not, stating that members are being stuck with old stuff. Again, that would be paid for by dues, not DVC or Disney. If DVC did increase dues for these items, there would be an outcry regarding a large increase.
 
I don't have a problem with DVC making decisions based on what they feel is the best for the entire membership. I would hope they are smart enough to do so.

I might not agree with the changes or even like them, but I can accept them. I am just sick and tired of everything being labeled decisions based on "member feedback". I feel that is BS and it makes us look like we as a membership will buy anything they feed us as long as they cover it with the standard line of "based on member feedback. I do have a problem with changes being based on the squeaky wheel members if that is fueling changes.

As to the new office building, glad our dues did not contribute to it, but I feel the money spent could have benefitted the membership more by adding more member satisfaction CMs, having 3-4 is ridiculous for the number of members.

I would respect the DVC leadership more if they just made changes and let it go at that, and quit with the PR spin. This is an aspect of JL that I do not like. He reminds me at times of a sleezy politician talking down to us like we are the uneducated. I am not convinced the change to banking was based on "member feedback" or that it was too difficult for the membership to manage as it was. We all managed it very well before the change. That change was based on what was easiest for DVC not the membership.

I also don't have a problem with sales and expansion as long as it is balanced with taking care of the current membership and the exisiting resorts. If the existing resort and current membership are overlooked for sales and expansion it will not be long before the backlash from that will affect sales.
Current members are not going to be willing to make referrals or do addons if they are overlooked.

I guess it depends upon what the Member Satisfaction Team actually does. I always thought they were there to investigate complaints and respond to member emails. They honestly may not need more than a handful of people to do that. While they may occasionally get overwhelmed on a particular topic, like Mug-Gate, I would bet they have adequate numbers to cover the average day to day concerns.


The banking window change...well, remember all the past threads on these boards...what is 50% or 25%, is it a cumulative total or percentage of points I have remaining? Yes, it was confusing to many, many members. It is all perception, like the difference between by 3 get one FREE, or 25% off. Same offer, people like the word FREE better. Honestly, do you ever watch game shows like Millionaire or 5th Grader? Many people seem to have lost any ability for analytical thought, even for a relatively simple question.

Just like the "Giant Economy-size" always has to be cheaper. Some people really believe that, without ever doing the math. And it is often not true.
 
I think that keeping the dues low at all of the resorts is used to benefit sales, not the membership.

This sounds like a "darned if they do and darned if they don't" situation. If DVC raised MF to $8.00 for each resort, would this mean that Disney is trying to benefit the membership at the expense of sales? I believe that the cost of MF directly affects sales, but that is not to say that I believe Disney artificially keeps the dues low to drive sales.

A few months back there were threads about BLT's low MF. Some people said that it was only low because it was subsidized by Disney. The implication was that Disney was keeping BLT's MF artificially low to attract buyers. Although BLT is receiving a developer subsidy, that subsidy is only 0.0506 cents per point. Even without the subsidy, BLT would still have the lowest MF of all DVC resorts.

Do I believe Disney will let BLT's MF soar after it has sold all of BLT's points? No, I don't, and I say this because I haven't seen Disney let other resorts' MF skyrocket when sales were completed. I looked at the first annual budget for each WDW resort and compared it to the fifth annual budget for each resort. OKW's MF increased an average of 3.29% per year; BWV increased by 1.62%/year; VWL increased by 4.14%/year; BCV increased by 4.70%/year; and SSR increased by 2.70%/year. Based on Disney's past performance, I am anticipating (and budgeting for) BLT's MF to increase around 4% a year.
 
A little off topic -
We recently got a notice from Discovercard saying they changed our account number. When I called to find out why, I was told that based on customer surveys they were adding "enhancements" to our account and they were sure we'd like them. My first thought was oh crap...Jim Lewis is now working for Discovercard. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
This sounds like a "darned if they do and darned if they don't" situation. If DVC raised MF to $8.00 for each resort, would this mean that Disney is trying to benefit the membership at the expense of sales? I believe that the cost of MF directly affects sales, but that is not to say that I believe Disney artificially keeps the dues low to drive sales.

A few months back there were threads about BLT's low MF. Some people said that it was only low because it was subsidized by Disney. The implication was that Disney was keeping BLT's MF artificially low to attract buyers. Although BLT is receiving a developer subsidy, that subsidy is only 0.0506 cents per point. Even without the subsidy, BLT would still have the lowest MF of all DVC resorts.

Do I believe Disney will let BLT's MF soar after it has sold all of BLT's points? No, I don't, and I say this because I haven't seen Disney let other resorts' MF skyrocket when sales were completed. I looked at the first annual budget for each WDW resort and compared it to the fifth annual budget for each resort. OKW's MF increased an average of 3.29% per year; BWV increased by 1.62%/year; VWL increased by 4.14%/year; BCV increased by 4.70%/year; and SSR increased by 2.70%/year. Based on Disney's past performance, I am anticipating (and budgeting for) BLT's MF to increase around 4% a year.

Why not set the dues at what ever amount is required to maintain the resorts at something other that a Motel 6 standard. Take the rooms out of service and fix the problem, don't put a temporary band-aid on it and make a Guest stay in sub standard conditions. Why is there a subsidy at BLT anyway? I have never seen a reason and when I asked the question to DVD Management, I never received an answer. :sad2:
 
These both are 2 different things. The DVC building would have to have been paid for by DVC itself. Member satisfaction CM's would be from dues.

Sales & expansion are paid for by DVC itself. Maintenance of current resorts would be paid for by dues from that resort.

I think some members don't realize what DVC pays for and what is paid for by dues. There was a recent thread about what additional "perks" would you like to see. Some people mentioned additional housekeeping. That would have to come from additional dues, not DVC or Disney. Someone else recently complained that BC got updates but BCV did not, stating that members are being stuck with old stuff. Again, that would be paid for by dues, not DVC or Disney. If DVC did increase dues for these items, there would be an outcry regarding a large increase.

Debbie where do we get the facts on what is paid for by our dues and what is not? Thanks
 
why is Lewis not liked? Seems like few people have nice things to say about him.

I do believe that certain items (housekeeping and maintenance in particular) have declined during Mr. Lewis' tenure. Maybe they would have anyway, so I don't explicitly blame him for that. The never-ending battle to keep dues from increasing too rapidly at the expense of resort upkeep is probably more likely the reason. (Personally, I'd rather pay higher dues for a "close to first class resort experience", but I'm probably in the minority on that one.)

Still overall, I believe Mr. Lewis has made policies that benefit the membership as a whole. And though this may be less than optimal in certain individual cases, his willingness to implement changes for the "good of the many" is a definite plus, IMO.
 
I think that keeping the dues low at all of the resorts is used to benefit sales, not the membership. The Guides will tell you during their sales presentation the Disney has some of the lowest dues in the industry.

Disney knows that most of the membership is unhappy with the maintenance and worn look at most of the resorts. Why not start the new resorts off with slightly increased dues to build a bigger fund for future repairs and maintenance? Why not set the dues at a level that would allow the DVC resorts to be the best looking and maintained resorts at WDW?

Wouldn't it be nice to have people say, "the DVC resorts are the best resorts at WDW". Instead of, "the DVC resorts look beat up because they are a time share and they get more wear because they are always full".

But my point is, if what you say is true, why wouldn't DVC set the dues a bit higher particularly at resorts like BLT and VGC? Those resorts started with dues that are 15-17% LOWER than any other current resort. Adding an extra nickel or dime to the 2009 dues wouldn't have caused the tiniest blip in sales statistics.

Why not set the dues at what ever amount is required to maintain the resorts at something other that a Motel 6 standard. Take the rooms out of service and fix the problem, don't put a temporary band-aid on it and make a Guest stay in sub standard conditions.

Here is the crux of the matter: everything that you stated above is purely a subjective opinion.

Personally, I have never stayed in a DVC room that was anything close to "Motel 6 standard." Over our 15-20 DVC stays, the worst problem we've had was a dishwasher & toaster that needed to be replaced, and a couple of missing kitchen utensils.

Aside from that, our rooms are clean and well maintained. I vividly remember entering rooms for the first time and being hit with a whiff of cleaning solution from the recent servicing.

Do some members experience problems? Of course they do. But with 3000+ DVC guest rooms in service every single day of the year, the number of complaints we see are the tiniest fraction of DVC membership. And even then we are never aware of any extenuating circumstances. I'm sure there are situations where housekeeping is short-handed due to no-shows or scheduling problems. There are problem CMs who just don't perform on a consistent basis. Maintenance could be handcuffed by similar issues or backordered parts. Late-departing guests could be responsible for late room cleanings. Rooms that are in obvious need of repair could be scheduled for such services a few days or a week later. When DVC resorts are booked to 100% occupancy, the staff cannot simply block off a room for the night because it needs extra attention.

These are all real-world problems that all corporations face, including Disney. Even careful planning and well thought-out maintenance schedules can't fix every problem when our fellow DVC members abuse rooms.

Why is there a subsidy at BLT anyway? I have never seen a reason and when I asked the question to DVD Management, I never received an answer. :sad2:

Because many resort amenities are designed to service many more guests than will actually be owners in a given year.

BLT is only about 50-60% sold now. Take one amenity--the pool, for example. The pool was designed to service about 285 rooms full of guests. Only about 150 of those rooms will be sold in 2009. That small population of owners cannot be asked to pay 100% of the operating costs for a pool that was designed to hold many more owners.

The same is true of things like the savanna at AKV. There are 300+ guest rooms at Kidani and only a fraction of them have been sold. The current owners cannot be forced to pay for all animal care expenses when the resort plan calls for many more owners to pay the total cost of that amenity.

When SSR first opened the subsidy was nearly $.50 per point. The reason was because the resort opened with the full Carriage House facility open (main pool, front desk, gift shop, restaurants, Community Hall, etc.), yet only 190 of the resorts 800+ rooms were open. Again, the owners of those 190 rooms shouldn't have to pay the full operating costs of the pool, CH, front desk, etc. Over time the subsidy was gradually reduced and there have been no unexpected blips in the total dues amounts. I believe the total increase averaged less than 3% per year since 2004.

It is the developer's responsibility to subsidize the dues for such amenities until he has met his commitment to fill the resort with dues-paying owners.
 
Actually, there has never been a discount on a WDW multi-day pass. It was a 10% discount on a length of stay pass, tied to the length of your room reservation That type of pass was discontinued completely by WDW, it no longer exists. DVC had no choice, they can't offer a 10% discount on a pass that doesn't exist. Plus DVC can't unilaterally offer a discount on park ticket media, it has to be negotiated with the WDW World Co., perhaps WDW bean counters don't see an advantage to their bottom line in offering DVCers such a discount.

The possibility for reallocation is clear in our documents, nor is it the first reallocation in the history of DVC. I doubt it will be the last reallocation we see, no matter who is DVC President.

But has this actually been a problem? It seems that the vast majority of members booking at 11 months have had no problems, and availability at 7 month has never been guaranteed in any way.
On the flip side, as tjkraz said, it likely allows more people to have their waitlist fulfilled. Perhaps DVC saw all those multiple waitlist as a problem and limiting to the membership as a whole.


What an individual member considers "more friendly" may be a disadvantage to the membership as a whole. The waitlist is just one example of this.

I still have the right to my opinion and I stated in the beginning that thesse were things I didn't like. You seem to have made plenty of excuses for DVC and yes they have every right to make these changes but that doesn't mean that anyone has to like them.

And as far as the pass/park tickets there was more than one option available back then also. There was the park hopper and the park hopper plus and as far as length of stay you could simply tell them you didn't want to go to the park on certain days at the resort and they would take those days off and still give you the discount. I know because we did this several times.
 
What do you all think would change if Jim Lewis left DVC and was replaced by someone else? Do you think DVC would no longer be profit/sales driven? Do you think Disney would suddenly give "free dining" to DVCers? Do you think we'd have free park admissions, or 50% ticket discounts?

Honestly, I think in today's business world, I think it would be pretty much the same.

:thumbsup2 I agree.
 
It would make for an interesting poll...
I know I'd like to give him the heave-ho.

You know, he is responsible and accountable for everything that happens, good and bad.
Sometime the boss gets credit for things they had no control over, and sometime they get blamed for things they had no control over.
That's just the way it is when you're the boss.

So yes, he is certainly responsible for anything bad that has happened on his watch.

MG
 
Although Jim Lewis has made decisions that are unpopular with members, I think the bigger issue is a lack of notice of changing and a use of spin that borders on lying.

This comes from an overall lack of maturity. It takes a mature person to know that there will be negative feedback from re-aligning the points charts. Surely DVC knew that a re-alignment was likely to happen maybe one or two years in advance.

Of course the response is fierce if given the notice, BUT in the long run members become more bitter if they always have things sprung on them at the last minute, and then get the spin over it.

Be a man and show some maturity Jim!
 















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