I've turned into a NAG!

[NotUrsula]

Hey, it sounds like there are some real similarities with our two sons...
The visual-written thing...
The Multi-part/stage complex assignments... ( the big picture )

Lot's of verbal remediation ( going over these things verbally/auditorily ) around here.

Oh, yeah, and the Asperger's doesn't help, either. A couple of weeks ago one of his teachers called me, ticked off beyond belief, because he decided to ARGUE with her that her directions were unclear and thus he should not be held responsible for the whole assignment (which, BTW, she was willing to let him finish in class). Oh, the discussion we had about THAT! "Yes, DS, I know that you're sure that it was her fault, but she's a TEACHER -- you do not yell at teachers, no matter how misguided you might think that they are."

 

[bumbershoot]

Well, in DS' case, there are a couple of reasons. Mostly he forgets the papers in homeroom, and they are not allowed to go back there to get them during the day.
....
In DS' case, it's usually because DH or I ask him something like, "Do you have your keys?" So he checks for his keys by taking everything out of the backpack, and only ends up putting half of it back.

Oh that last part must be so hard!

Homeroom...that's probably a BIG difference between my school experience and most others' experiences. We had NO lockers and NO homeroom. Until we got a car (or access to a friend's car), we had no place to keep our stuff, except with us. We lugged everything with us from class to class. So unless you forgot it at home, you had it with you. That might be why I've had such confusion over it, b/c my school experience (thanks to the classes before us, who destroyed the lockers so much they were yanked out the year before we first got to junior/middle school, and then high school) was so different than others.

Thanks for answering, to both who did!


And thanks, wishing, for liking what I said!

 

[Agri]

I, too, went through this in middle school and while I'm allegedly gifted, I'm not quite LD (depends on which one of the professionals my parents had me see). Both of my parents were teachers, so some of it was overkill. I have worked in the school system, too. So all of this comes from the heart.

My dad decided I needed to have my homework initialed and then my guidance counselor had to sign off that I had done it. None of this did a bit of good for me.

If a lot of his problem with completing work is the way the assignments are worded, his teachers need to word them differently.

Is his homeroom teacher told to remind him about taking his assignments with him? Are his teachers prompting him directly in class to turn things in? If he's got an IEP, he should be allowed to go back to the homeroom - at least for a little while. It sounds like the whole procedure is overwhelming for him and maybe he would do better adjusting to it a little bit at a time.

It sounds like he's very hard on himself, which is hard to get past until you're succeeding.

I think you need to try to put some of this "nagging" off on his teachers. If its all (or mostly) from you, he won't get it and he'll resent you. If his teachers bug him, too, he'll see that its not just mom going on and on again. Also, your example about the rough draft - you need to tell the teacher this and have her discuss it with him also.

I don't know how it is in your district, but 8th grade in ours is pretty much a baby version of high school. Its a big change and I had a lot of difficulty my 8th grade year, too.

I would also entertain the idea of seeing a new psych - just a visit or two to get a second opinion. I changed a lot as a person between 7th and 8th grade and I changed my psych at the end of 8th grade and I honestly think 8th grade would have gone better for me if I had changed psychs sooner.

 

[dimimi]

As a teacher of LD/ADHD/ and other special education students...please continue to help your child!

If you can help them learn to be organized it will help them in high school. Also, remember that in high school, they may still need help.

Keep in mind that it is ok to check your child's work. It is also ok to communicate with your child's teacher. Once your child sees success, he will realize how your method is working!

The school should also cooperate and remind your child to turn in the work, etc. Especially if you son is on an IEP...remember they are on an IEP for a reason... and the teachers should support helping him to improve his weak areas. Even you should remember, it is hard to break/change a habit.

I try to use this example when I talk to the general education teachers. I know I NEED to exercise...but I don't! I hear and read TONS of research telling me I should exercise....I still don't. I am out of breath when I walk...I still don't excercise. I don't fit in my clothes real well...I still don't exercise. SO if you get my point, even as adults, we have a difficult time changing our behavior.

Make sure you take time to have fun with your son! You sound like a great mom!

 

[PaulaSue]

Magpie, I have been doing that for the last 4 years for my oldest DD. Well when she actually writes down her homework and brings it home. GRR~

she would forget her head if it wasn't attached somedays.

 

[agnes!]

Well, in DS' case, there are a couple of reasons. Mostly he forgets the papers in homeroom, and they are not allowed to go back there to get them during the day. His teachers usually allow a late paper to be turned in the following day with a 10% automatic dock, but if he's forgotten it in homeroom once, it's all too likely that he'll forget it the next day, too.

I think that your son being able to go back into his homeroom to retrieve papers on a temporary basis should be made part of his 504/IEP.

... In DS' case, it's usually because DH or I ask him something like, "Do you have your keys?" So he checks for his keys by taking everything out of the backpack, and only ends up putting half of it back. He's negligent about so MANY things that it is next to impossible to keep up; he has 10 classes.
...

Well then, this is easy ...
don't ask him about last-minute things especially if your son has done his homework. Maybe the time to ask about the keys (or whatever) is when you son is doing his homework or when he is finished and *before* he puts papers in the backpack. You and your DH *cannot* ask him questions like 'do you have your keys' if your son has packed up his papers.

This is like saying 'Do you have our boarding passes' (which is something my Dh sometimes does) when we're almost to the airport, the time to ask is *before* the family leaves the house.

agnes!

 

[Magpie]

OP, here!

First, thank you everyone for your input and support! I really appreciate it. Being able to vent and get this kind of feedback helps a lot.

This morning went a lot smoother. My son didn't give me any attitude when I checked his backpack and reviewed his work. He was having a mellow morning, which is very nice.

As far as his school goes, while he *technically* has a homeroom, it's just a place for his grade to gather in the morning for announcements. He doesn't have a desk. All EIGHT of his subjects are stuffed into a single binder, which he drags around in a backpack. He has a locker, but he doesn't have regular access to it throughout the day.

Assignments are dropped in a inbox on the teacher's desk, so it's very easy to forget to hand them in.

And the "report card" is beyond useless. There are no percentages, no grades. It's a masterpiece of computer generated vagueness. He should get a real report card at some point in the spring, but we need to get him on track before then.

You just really nailed it!!!!!
In fact, you just nailed TWO things.

1. First, schoolwork is just NON-negotiable.
You can't reason and 'negotiate' with a kid with a deficit or flaw in their thought process!!!!!
Been there done that MANY times with my son.

I've always been curious about this statement. I mean, I really don't negotiate over homework. If I tell him to do something, he does it. But before I started sending in a homework log book with him, how was I supposed to know if he actually had any homework? The kid's sure wasn't going to tell me! "Do you have any homework?" "No."

I have a daughter who is very mellow. With her, I can say, "This is the way it is," and like magic - it just IS. My son's not like that. He's not defiant, and he's not even a liar (he genuinely thinks he has no homework!), but he questions constantly. And I need to choose carefully when I'm going to lay down the law.

2. See the bolded above.. "because he NEEDS to hear it".
Especially with my son, his LD is known to include the factor that he deals with things auditorily, and has visual processing deficits. He is just not gonna get many things until they are verbalized, very simply and directly, several times.

I think my son's LD is slightly different. When he was little I noticed that I would tell him how to do a math problem and he'd look at me blankly and say, "What?" Then I'd show him on paper how to do it, and he'd get it right away. He was found to have "borderline" hearing as a kindergartner, but because he was ahead academically and quite articulate, the doctors opted not to pursue any medical treatment for him.

With written instructions he tends to only see the end of the instruction. Many times I have to point to something buried in the middle of the paragraph, and he'll say, "Oh, I didn't see that." Even if it's numbered and bulleted, he'll still miss the middle. He doesn't think sequentially (it took me forever to teach him long division!).

I suspect part of my frustration with having to nag him is that I don't even know if he's hearing me, or if he's just hearing Charlie Brown's teacher.

Can't tell you how many times I have responded to my son's occasional negative 'attitude' about schoolwork with... " It is NOT going away... You HAVE to do this... so put a smile on your face and just do it..."

Yes...that simple. (LOVE the Nike slogan!!!! )

Our phrase is, "Suck it up, buttercup!"

I, too, went through this in middle school and while I'm allegedly gifted, I'm not quite LD (depends on which one of the professionals my parents had me see). Both of my parents were teachers, so some of it was overkill. I have worked in the school system, too. So all of this comes from the heart.

My dad decided I needed to have my homework initialed and then my guidance counselor had to sign off that I had done it. None of this did a bit of good for me.

If a lot of his problem with completing work is the way the assignments are worded, his teachers need to word them differently.

Is his homeroom teacher told to remind him about taking his assignments with him? Are his teachers prompting him directly in class to turn things in? If he's got an IEP, he should be allowed to go back to the homeroom - at least for a little while. It sounds like the whole procedure is overwhelming for him and maybe he would do better adjusting to it a little bit at a time.

It sounds like he's very hard on himself, which is hard to get past until you're succeeding.

I think you need to try to put some of this "nagging" off on his teachers. If its all (or mostly) from you, he won't get it and he'll resent you. If his teachers bug him, too, he'll see that its not just mom going on and on again. Also, your example about the rough draft - you need to tell the teacher this and have her discuss it with him also.

I don't know how it is in your district, but 8th grade in ours is pretty much a baby version of high school. Its a big change and I had a lot of difficulty my 8th grade year, too.

I would also entertain the idea of seeing a new psych - just a visit or two to get a second opinion. I changed a lot as a person between 7th and 8th grade and I changed my psych at the end of 8th grade and I honestly think 8th grade would have gone better for me if I had changed psychs sooner.

My son IS very hard on himself. It's been an issue since he was a toddler. I almost couldn't discipline him at all, because he'd fall apart if I was even mildly critical. It wasn't an issue because I rarely needed to criticize him, anyway. He was always tried incredibly hard to be perfect. He used to beat his head on the floor when he made mistakes.

I suspect part of what's happened is that he tried too hard for too long and now he's just decided to stop trying. He hasn't experienced what he would consider "success" in a fairly long time, I think.

I don't think we need to find a new psych yet - we've only just started this year with this one, and my son seems to like him.

I'm really hoping high school will be better! It's a different system, with only four classes for the first half of the year, and then four more classes in the second half. It should be easier to track.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm hoping I can find a balance between doing just enough, and not too much.

As a teacher of LD/ADHD/ and other special education students...please continue to help your child!

If you can help them learn to be organized it will help them in high school. Also, remember that in high school, they may still need help.

Keep in mind that it is ok to check your child's work. It is also ok to communicate with your child's teacher. Once your child sees success, he will realize how your method is working!

The school should also cooperate and remind your child to turn in the work, etc. Especially if you son is on an IEP...remember they are on an IEP for a reason... and the teachers should support helping him to improve his weak areas. Even you should remember, it is hard to break/change a habit.

I try to use this example when I talk to the general education teachers. I know I NEED to exercise...but I don't! I hear and read TONS of research telling me I should exercise....I still don't. I am out of breath when I walk...I still don't excercise. I don't fit in my clothes real well...I still don't exercise. SO if you get my point, even as adults, we have a difficult time changing our behavior.

Make sure you take time to have fun with your son! You sound like a great mom!

Thank you! I do worry about doing too much for him, but if I look at it as building new habits... well, I can definitely see it'll take time and consistency on my part.

I've noticed some little things - like me putting today's homework log page on top - make a huge difference. Somehow, just having to turn the page himself, seems to make it less likely that he'll carry through with the assignment. So I bought him a new binder today, with extra dividers and a sewn-in pencil case, on the theory that he can't possibly be TOO organized right now.

 

[NotUrsula]

I think that your son being able to go back into his homeroom to retrieve papers on a temporary basis should be made part of his 504/IEP.

It's a private school, and they are allowed to place limits. This is one thing that they won't budge on; allowing students to interrupt classes in order to come in and access their lockers is a no-go.

Well then, this is easy ...
don't ask him about last-minute things especially if your son has done his homework. Maybe the time to ask about the keys (or whatever) is when you son is doing his homework or when he is finished and *before* he puts papers in the backpack. You and your DH *cannot* ask him questions like 'do you have your keys' if your son has packed up his papers.

This is like saying 'Do you have our boarding passes' (which is something my Dh sometimes does) when we're almost to the airport, the time to ask is *before* the family leaves the house.

Well, we DO ask him before he leaves the house, LOL. The problem with the keys is that he has a problem with forgetting them and leaving them plugged into the computer after doing his homework, because his thumb drive is on his keyring (necessary because he kept forgetting THAT in homeroom, too.) If he forgets the keys and gets locked out, his only shelter is in the unheated garage, so we want to be sure about the keys right before he leaves the house. They ride clipped into an outer pocket of his backpack; so it's not like he HAS to unpack everything to look for the keys; he's just odd that way. He's also COMPLETELY literal in his language: on one occasion a few weeks ago he told us his homework was packed in his bag because the thumb drive was in his bag -- even though the printer had run out of ink the night before and he hadn't printed it out. He didn't make the connection that he could not turn in the electronic version of the report at school, and needed to print it at home in order to get it in on time.

We've lately come up with what has turned out to be the best solution -- we bought a flatbed scanner to keep at home. DS now turns in his handwritten homework directly under my eye, by scanning and emailing it directly to his teacher from home. Of course, he has to email it BEFORE he leaves home in order for this to work for full-credit -- if the message is time-stamped after class, then it's considered late. (He also still turns in the hardcopy during class along with everyone else for consistency; this tactic is only to save his bacon from the homeroom issue.)

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Keep your chin up. For our younger son, the results are what keep him going. On his last report card, he got 4 As. He was beaming. It demonstrates to him that he can do it - he just needs to focus and pay attention to detail.

Of course, his mother and I still have to follow through with everything. Our one exception - we will only remind him to put his work in his backpack once complete. If he fails to turn it in, he knows how it will effect his grade. It is important that we let him fail in some ways for his shortsightedness. But this comes after he has done the work and learned from it.