I've gotten so much help with my FIL situation. Thanks!!

[tommya60]

I am sorry for your losses, it seems like your family is handling a lot right now.
I think you have received a lot of good information. Helping in rotation gives everyone a break and makes sure your FIL has help.
Once everyone has caught their breath, a longer term plan can be arranged. Perhaps you can double up the portions of a couple of meals a week and freeze them as "tv dinners". Maybe your SIL can do FIL's laundry with her own.
Longer term, you need to chat with an attorney. What happens to your disabled BIL when your FIL cannot care for him? How does his marriage complicate this issue?
By the way, make sure the doctor's have those medical POA's on file. It can be a big help in an emergancy situation. What happens to the property (reverse mortgage seems ideal if money is needed).
Does your SIL or the church pastor know any teenagers who need service hours or some pocket money? Maybe they can help with house work or yard work.
Does your FIL see any of the same doctors as anyone else in the family? Or located in the same building? Perhaps the appointments can be arranged together.

I know it's overwhelming right now, but I assure you it all can be done. To me, the key is a rotation, so everyone helps and everyone has time off---even your single BIL.

I'll be thinking of you....

 

[Disney Doll]

So sorry for your losses....

Home Health Care (HHC) - AKA visiting nurses - they will provide care that is covered by Medicare if the person has a skilled need. Skilled needs are things that MUST be done by a nurse or physical therapist. Wound care, physical therapy etc. Someone who is elderly with the usual elderly health issues might qualify for HHC briefly, under a "skilled observation" sort of thing, but it would be VERY brief, if at all. Usually HHC consists of a nurse visit once or twice a week and a home health aide 2 hours/day 3 days/wk. Probably not going to be a big help to you in your situation and certainly not a long term solution.

Nursing Home - a solution, although perhaps not the ideal. Really, it depends how debilitated your DFIL really is. If he were to go into a nursing home, basically all his assets (money, savings, house) would be "spent down" to a certain amount. The patient is allowed to jkeep this certain amount for burial expenses. The good part about this is it would mean selling the house that DFIL is afraid will cause family strife and once all his assets are gone, he is in the nursing home and his bills are paid. As a PP said, doing this now might be preferable to doing it later, because now he has some assets to play with which can get him into a nicer facility than he may get into down the road when the assets have run out.

Assisted Living - very nice but usually very expensive. The plusses are people around him, access to dining.

Independent Living in a Senior Community - i.e.- a senior apartment building or housing complex. If he is able to be relatively independent, then this could work because he would be able to stay relatively independent, have access to people ariound when he feels like socializing. If you sent him up with some meals on wheels or some home grocery delivery, this could be a viable option.

You will note that all of the things suggested above entail him leaving his home. From what you describe, if neither he nor his family has the financial wherewithal to afford private in-home caretakers, I do not see how he can stay in his home safely.

I would immediately get one of his children as POA in the event he is incapacitated. I would contact a local area agency on aging to see what they can offer you, but it doesn't sound like DFIL will get his wish of staying in his home. he may have to agree to be flexible and understand that you are doing the best you can for him.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Can't blame him- to put all the pressure on the one person just because he is single would not be fair.
Couldn't you just move the father in with you temporarily until you got everything straightened out and in place. Perhaps he doesn't WANT to leave his house but he may HAVE to leave his house....could always sell it and build an apartment/room onto one of your homes so he could have his own space there.
Taxes are only 800 on his house so even if all the siblings had to split that up between them to pay it wouldn't be much at all....you could also talk to all the siblings about splitting the cost of the funeral to put your FIL's mind at rest that he won't have to worry about that.

I actually suggested to my DH that between all the brothers and sisters, we could cover the taxes this year. He said everyone is tapped out financially right now...we are kinda tight now too. But if we can't do it this year, hopefully I can suggest that each family put back $10 a month or give it to someone to keep and by the time the taxes are due next year, we won't have to worry.
I would LOVE to have him stay with us. I hate to throw out excuses but our house is small. We have a little over 1000 sq ft, 2 teenage girls and one bathroom. And I know it's really, really important to the whole family that the house isn't sold....that will be an absolute last resort. They lived in that house for about 45 years. I feel that things aren't as grim as I feared. I tend to overreact, unfortunately. But honestly, I had no idea what their financial situation was. The utilities are very inexpensive, the house is paid for. Upkeep/maintence on the house is usually done by someone in the family. The property tax bill almost made me cry tears of joy because I was so fearful that it would be thousands. But $800 is definately doable. I can withdraw from my 401k from my previous job if I have to. I just want these things off his mind.
Now if I can just get the family to talk to him about the will. I don't care if he donates his entire estate to the orphanage in this county...I don't want the state taking over. My DH and I could care less if we get anything, I swear to God. He has to do something. And the living will. No one wants to deal with this stuff, and I understand so much. But he told one of the grandchildren (she is in her 30's) that if he ended up in the hospital that he did not want to be kept alive for more than 2 days by artificial means. I can't seem to get anyone to understand we have to get him to sign a living will so that there will be no question if something like that happened. It all sounds so cold, but I'm trying to help in my own way. I'm grieving too. That woman was the only mother figure I ever had in my life. And my FIL is probably the most honorable, sincere, lovely person who I have ever met in my life. I just want to help. And I am so devastated for my girls and DH. I'm so tired and so is everyone else.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Medicare pays for home health care in LIMITED situations-he would have to have a qualifying hospital stay and only then would they pay and then only for 100 days. It is VERY confusing, I agree. Like I said earlier, your choices are to put him in a nursing home if he qualifies to have Medicaid pay for that (Medicare does NOT) or find some in home help that you have to pay for out of pocket or move him into a senior living situation of some sort, again paying out of pocket. There is not federal assistance for this unless you go the Medicaid route and he WILL have to sell his home. I also think you will find that he needs more help then you think because mom has been doing a lot for him.

Thank you so much for the info. I didn't even think about the fact that the assets he currently own will probably prevent him from getting anything thats out there. Yeah, mom has been doing everything for him and my BIL who is disabled. This is so tough. Thanks for breaking this down for me. I'm normally not this stupid, I'm just mentally worn out. I really appreciate you.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

I am sorry for your losses, it seems like your family is handling a lot right now.
I think you have received a lot of good information. Helping in rotation gives everyone a break and makes sure your FIL has help.
Once everyone has caught their breath, a longer term plan can be arranged. Perhaps you can double up the portions of a couple of meals a week and freeze them as "tv dinners". Maybe your SIL can do FIL's laundry with her own.
Longer term, you need to chat with an attorney. What happens to your disabled BIL when your FIL cannot care for him? How does his marriage complicate this issue?
By the way, make sure the doctor's have those medical POA's on file. It can be a big help in an emergancy situation. What happens to the property (reverse mortgage seems ideal if money is needed).
Does your SIL or the church pastor know any teenagers who need service hours or some pocket money? Maybe they can help with house work or yard work.
Does your FIL see any of the same doctors as anyone else in the family? Or located in the same building? Perhaps the appointments can be arranged together.

I know it's overwhelming right now, but I assure you it all can be done. To me, the key is a rotation, so everyone helps and everyone has time off---even your single BIL.

I'll be thinking of you....

Thank you for your suggestions and ideas. Each and every one of them are giving me a great deal of guidance. I have no idea what will happen to BIL. Esp since he doesn't think he has any disabilities. I like the idea of freezing meals. I can make meatloaf or spaghetti or whatever he wants (and my teen girls will help me, they would do anything for their pa) and put meals in the freezer. This is a great idea and one I intend to start on this weekend.
What is a medical POA? It's probably really obvious but I can't think.

I haven't read everyones posts yet, so don't think I'm ignoring you if you have asked questions. I'm going to take a nap while I am home. Thanks so much guys. This sounds so dramatic, but you guys are really helping me get thru this. I'm so thankful. I'll get back on later tonight or tomorrow to make sure I covered everyone who had suggestions or questions.

 

[Disney Doll]

A meical POA is also sometimes called a Health Care Agent. That is the person who knows what your DFIL would want in terms of medical care and has the authority to tell the healthcare providers what his wishes are.

If there is a lot of "consternation" amongst your DH and his siblings (and it sounds like there might be), getting all this stuff legally worked out ASAP is important....

Will
Medical POA/Health Care Agent
Fininacial POA

Also, not to throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing, but you guys need to start thinking about what to do with/about DH's "simple" brother who lives with your DFIL. If something happens to DFIL and the house is sold, where does BIL go???? Can he take care of himself? Is he able to work? What about his wife? Would they be able to live together? Would they, because of their "simpleness", be able to get in to some sort of subsidized housing? That's a whole other situation you've got there, if you know what I mean. And it may come up sooner as opposed to later, depending on DFIL does with his grieving....

 

[ksjayhawks]

A medical POA is similar to a regular POA--it allows the person designated to make medical decisions for the person on whom the medical poa is written. I have one for my mom.

My parents lived in their house for close to 50 years when my mom sold the house and came to live with us. It was hard for her to do, but she finally realized she could not take care of the house anymore, the upkeep was getting expensive, etc. I understand the emotional ties to the house, but it is time to start looking past that and looking at what is best for fil.

I am going to throw a whole lot of questions at you, just things that you need to think about. I am not doing it to be spiteful or mean, just to get you thinking about all the "what ifs".

What will happen to the house once fil is gone? Will a sibling want to live there? Is there a grandchild or a sibling that wants to buy the house and move in? That way the house would be kept in the family. If this is done, it should be done through all the correct legal channels with a contract, money paid to fil, mortgage if necessary as you do not want any problems down the road if fil does need to go on Medicaid.

Right now everyone is very emotional, but as things calm down and life gets back on track, as much as it can, the siblings may be able to look at the house situation and what to do with fil more realistically.

You really, really need to talk to an eldercare attorney--the siblings (and perhaps the spouses there as well so there are no misunderstandings) and fil. The attorney will be advocating for fil, not you guys. BUT, he can give very valuable insight into how things work, both now and in the future, in terms of the house, a will, medicaid, etc.

It is also important to appoint someone as poa asap so that you guys have an idea of the financial situation. You need to know about checking accounts, savings accounts, annuities, life insurance, retirement, etc. The siblings should not have to dig into their own money to pay for burial plans and taxes and upkeep when there is money (in checking/savings or via sale of home) to pay those bills.

You also need to know doctor names and medications he is on. What insurances does he have?

How much is fil capable of doing? Will he really reheat the meals that you make or will he exist on toast and cold cuts and cereal? Is he a picky eater--if so, he may not eat much of the meals on wheels offerings. Can he handle his own medications? Will he bathe regularly? Can he clean the house or do his own laundry? What would happen if he falls? Will he wander away from the home? Would he try to drive the van? Will he try to make coffee and forget to put the water in the pot before he turns it on (my grandma did this and almost burnt down her home)? Will he forget to turn off the stove? Will he put on clean clothes every day? Will he take out the garbage or let it build up in the house? Can he handle the disabled son?

Will it work for the siblings/grandchildren to rotate staying with him for a week at a time? If they cannot get time off from work to be there the whole week, can they spend the nights and weekends? Who would check on him during the day if needed?

Would fil be open to an "outsider" (college student, person from church, etc) moving in with him to help out with him and house in exchange for free room and board? What rules would the siblings set up in terms of expenses--would person moving in have to chip in on food, household supplies, for example--or having company over, using the fil's van, hours you would expect the person to be there, housekeeping and laundry, lawnmowing, and duties you would expect them to perform for fil? How would you hold this person accountable? How much authority would they be given? All things to think about.

If there is independent living available, is there 3 meals a day or one? How much would those cost? Will fil go down and eat them? What about grocery--is there delivery? What about laundry--can he do his own or would someone else have to? Can he clean his own apartment? Would someone from the facility check on him every day? Would he participate in social activities or would he stay in his apartment?

Your dh's family, and by default you as well, have a lot to think about in the coming weeks. Sounds like you are making a good start. Sending more hugs your way.

PM me if you have any more questions that I might be able to help with.

 

[hereyago]

Op-First off my condolences for your family's recent losses.

I am 42, have a DD12 and have been taking care of my parents from the age of 35. My DF thankfully put into place all the legal papers of me being POA, me being on the Advance Medical Directive, before he would get lung cancer. He lasted 6 months, with the last 2 being really bad.

My DM was never responsible for anything as everyone ALLOWED that, even my DF. So she didn't cook, clean, etc. I had nannies until I was 5 when we moved back to the States and then she taught me how to make my own cereal and fix a sandwich, so I became independant at a very early age.

So DF was sick , DM wasn't going to help take care of him. So I became responsible for everyone. DF wanted me to set up automatic bill pay, so the bills would be paid. He passed and now I take "care" of DM77. She has Parkinson's,but can still get around. I am also her POA,etc. I cook, clean, work, etc. I taught her how to use the microwave and fix oatmeal in it and she can make a sandwich. She can also do laundry, but she will just do her own.

So many times, children don't want to bring up the subject with the parents, or the parents just don't want to do it and think everyone will do "what's right" when the time is needed. I myself have long term care as I have no desire for DD to have to take care of me, she has seen what a toll it can have.

I will be honest and say then when DF was sick, I didn't want to hear about where the important papers were or who to call, but I know I had to know it. I was so thankful even after wards because he left me little notes about how to do things around the house or who to call for certain things.


Good luck.

 

[minniecarousel]

Here's another simple tip: if he's on medications, arrange his pills in a weekly pill container. Once a week, place his pills in the proper day, sectioned into morning, noon, dinner, bedtime. This is a terrific help. (DH takes just a couple pills for his HBP and he does this in one of those tiny pill continers just to make sure he takes it every day. I don't kow how people remember if they've taken a daily pill if not in a daily reminder container!)

Also, Medicare Part D, which is the medication reimbursement part of the plan, he can get his maintenance drugs by mail. In fact, most supplemental insurances prefer that those medications be bought this way. They are in 90 day precriptions. Someone in the family should take this on, as it's easy to manage by computer.

Again, good luck. I was so fortunate that my Mom moved in with us when she was healthy and we were able to take each downturn in her health gradually.

 

[tommya60]

I was refering to a Power of Atty...or Advance Health Care Directive. Each state seems to call it something different. It gives someone the ability to make medical decisions. I cannot tell you how critical this is....I have been in the place where decisions had to be made. Those papers saved our sanity at a time of great stress and sorrow. A separate POA covers financial issues.

Once you have the immediate needs covered, give yourself a week or two. Then start on the long term issues...POAs, the real deal with your BIL (is he eligible for Social Sec Disability? Does he work? Can he live on his own? What does his wife/her family see in the future?) You don't have to solve it all at once, but slow and steady will help in the long run.

Are you sure your FIL can't pay the taxes? See about selling the cars--they will only depreciate and your FIL can't drive them. Why pay the registration and insurance? I know nothing about tractors, perhaps it's needed for property maintenance...if not sell it.

Meals, laundry, phone calls to check in, it sounds like you have some space to make further plans.

 

[trip]

Is your FIL a VET? If so, you should check on this program.


http://www.vaaidandattendance.com/