It Makes Me So Mad

[nuthut]

Seems to me that there people are assuming a lot of things they know nothing about including my motives and DVC's motives also. I made this reservation for my wife and I when they announced the MH. At that time there was lots of studios available at every resort. We have changed our mind and are going to hilton head instead because of the MH cost with our annual passes. Is not the reservations at DVC first come, first serve? I don't judge you, why judge me, when you know nothing about me or my motives? If you want this reserved time, why not rent it and then rent your points to someone else to pay for it? Seems like a pretty easy thing to do to get something you want. Of course, if $499 is to much, it's available to rent from CRO at $1,095.57 with taxes.

 

[JohnnyII]

I see nothing wrong with what you are doing. They are your points and you should use them as YOU see fit.

If I or someone else can't get a reservation for that time period, sucks to be us! But those are the rules and I should have booked earlier.

I am really not sure why many issues on this board are blown way out of proportion.

-John

 

[Joeblack]

I agree with DaveO and Nuthut. You want prime views, dates, etc.? Call early. Not everybody can always be pleased. Rules are rules.

If a renter can get $100 a point, great for him/her. The renting option is always one of the selling points for ANY timeshare.

By the way, I have never rented and don't inted to, but if I ever need to and can maximize its price, I will definitely do it.

 

[luvindisneyworld]

Originally posted by nuthut
Seems to me that there people are assuming a lot of things they know nothing about including my motives and DVC's motives also. I made this reservation for my wife and I when they announced the MH. At that time there was lots of studios available at every resort. We have changed our mind and are going to hilton head instead because of the MH cost with our annual passes. Is not the reservations at DVC first come, first serve? I don't judge you, why judge me, when you know nothing about me or my motives? If you want this reserved time, why not rent it and then rent your points to someone else to pay for it? Seems like a pretty easy thing to do to get something you want. Of course, if $499 is to much, it's available to rent from CRO at $1,095.57 with taxes.

I cannot see why you would not turn it back over to DVC for members that are on the waitlist to be able to book it.I will not give 13.00 a point for something that i would rent out for 10.00.That is just stupid if you ask me.I dont use my points for the purpose of making profit off of them.I use them myself for a wonderful vacation and have rented to 2 people,when we have had extra points.

I just dont understand is all.I hope you find someone to give you 13.00 a point because I will not be the one to.
Misty

 

[disneyberry]

I understand why some believe this to be unethical. I just don't agree with them. Those who are upset are upset because they didn't/couldn't book as soon as the rules allowed. Reservations are on a "first to ask, first to get" basis.

I do believe in capitalism

Carol, ITA.

I cannot see why you would not turn it back over to DVC for members that are on the waitlist to be able to book it.

i cannot speak for the person in question, since i do not know him, and i am not going to go assuming anything about him.

i do have some speculation about why any member might not want to be so selfless and "give up" the reservation to others who didn't make the effort to book the reservation early enough.
sometimes a LOT of time and effort is put into securing a reservation during a popular time. you've got the calling day-by-day at exactly 8:59am. or maybe some nights/resorts were sold out, and you waitlisted day-by-day at all the resorts. then had to juggle all the different nights from different resorts coming in one at a time. finally piecing together an entire reservation at one resort. in theory it could take weeks or months to successfully book a reservation that is hard to get. if someone put in that much effort to get a difficult reservation, AND they all of a sudden realize they need to cancel their trip, which means they have points leftover that they can't use and must rent out anyway, then why not try to rent out that reservation first? if there are no responses, then they can open it up to reservations on a different date.
IMO, there is value to the amount of effort used to secure a difficult reservation.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Nick@ VB+OKW
Let me guess that you are a frequent renter of pts.
It is legal to rent your points.........and a lot of posters do because of sickness,deaths,etc. But to rent out prime weeks to the highest bidder on E-Bay or rent/trade boards isn't what I think DVC had in mind for there program IMO.

I suspect your right but for different reasons. DVD is in this to make money. To say they don't care otherwise would not be correct, but it is not their main concern, the profit is. DVC is not an altruistic venture. I also think you're assuming DVD's motivation and it's shere speculation. The main issue that DVD has with saying people can rent goes back to the tradtional timeshares system where it is common place for companies to tell people they can buy and later rent at a profit, using this as a sales tool. Those that think that members can only or should only rent for maint fees or to family or friends, are simply reading far too much into the legal wording and motivations. Those that think DVC particularly cares about how an individual owner handles their own points is likewise kidding themselves.

I rent occasionally and use points myself. I chose not to secure high priority reservations with the intent of selling them at a profit. But that's my personal choice, one that I have made and should not force on another who is abiding by the rules and legalities before them. This is the system we all bought in to, we are stuck with it for better or worse unless we sell.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by luvindisneyworld
I cannot see why you would not turn it back over to DVC for members that are on the waitlist to be able to book it.I will not give 13.00 a point for something that i would rent out for 10.00.That is just stupid if you ask me.I dont use my points for the purpose of making profit off of them.I use them myself for a wonderful vacation and have rented to 2 people,when we have had extra points.

I just dont understand is all.I hope you find someone to give you 13.00 a point because I will not be the one to.
Misty

I'm sure you really mean that you hope he cannot rent it for that price. But what I fail to understand is why you think he should take a back seat to your or other people's desires.

 

[o.t.4disney]

Maybe this is comparing apples to oranges but here it goes.

DVC points are considerably more for premier season than adventure season. To go on a DCL cruise you need to bank and borrow so many points to go on vacation. It probably is better to pay cash than use the points. So if DVC can charge what they want than I don't have a problem with trying to make some extra cash. It sure would help me to go on that cruise and pay my dues. It's all about supply and demand.

 

[Apollo53]

I had almost decided join DVC and purchase pionts at SSR. Now after reading all the post in this thread surrounding difficulty securing reservations and the amount of effort it can take to get the dates you'd like, I'm not so sure its worth it.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Apollo53
I had almost decided join DVC and purchase pionts at SSR. Now after reading all the post in this thread surrounding difficulty securing reservations and the amount of effort it can take to get the dates you'd like, I'm not so sure its worth it.

I don't think getting reservations is difficult if you plan 11 months out. Peak times can be tough as can specialty units like BW view or standard view. I assume you were buying mostly to use at SSR, if not, buy resale asdn buy where you want mostly to stay at.

 

[disneyberry]

Originally posted by Apollo53
I had almost decided join DVC and purchase pionts at SSR. Now after reading all the post in this thread surrounding difficulty securing reservations and the amount of effort it can take to get the dates you'd like, I'm not so sure its worth it.

Apollo53, it does depend on what times of the year you plan to travel. if you are able to book your vacation 11mos out, usually it's not so difficult. also, if you are flexible, and can afford to stay in any resort, and any size unit (i.e. staying in a OKW 1bdrm when you had originally planned on a BCV studio), that can make things easier. but with the growing member population, that 11mo window will become more and more important.

 

[Desperado]

I think the problem people may be having is that, while legal, it certainly doesn't seem ethical to tie up prime periods for personal self gain.

Good point, I agree. I also think there is some question as to whether it is really legal, or just not being pursued and enforced by DVC. There is an aurgument to be made that thise type of regular auction rental practices of prime weeks falls under the commercial use clause, and DVC is just not choosing to enforce it for whatever reason. As far as DVC's profit motive, I think the picture gets bigger than just DVC into the concept of customer loyalty, and associated return on investment for creating customer loyalty that goes way beyond a single DVC rental encounter. It's the difference in cost from aquiring a new customer over retaining a loyal customer, and the associated expense in achieving either. Disney as a whole has less to gain from a new rental customer than from a repeat loyal customer, despite people's assertion or annodotal conjecture regarding spending differences between groups.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Desperado
Good point, I agree. I also think there is some question as to whether it is really legal, or just not being pursued and enforced by DVC. There is an aurgument to be made that thise type of regular auction rental practices of prime weeks falls under the commercial use clause, and DVC is just not choosing to enforce it for whatever reason. As far as DVC's profit motive, I think the picture gets bigger than just DVC into the concept of customer loyalty, and associated return on investment for creating customer loyalty that goes way beyond a single DVC rental encounter. It's the difference in cost from aquiring a new customer over retaining a loyal customer, and the associated expense in achieving either. Disney as a whole has less to gain from a new rental customer than from a repeat loyal customer, despite people's assertion or annodotal conjecture regarding spending differences between groups.

I don't think there's any question as to the legalities or rules, only fantasy in some people's eyes. I think the overall language in the POS is very clear to allow renting. And I would assertain that the "commercial renting" clause is not legally enforceable in and of itself to prevent renting, in spite of what some would like to think. The use of copywrited materials and the like would the only way DVC could have to legally try to control this issue, if they so chose, at least as long as they themselves are renting.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by Dean
{snip}
I would assertain that the "commercial renting" clause is not legally enforceable in and of itself to prevent renting
{snip}

On this issue we dissagree. Certainly this would not apply to casual or occasional renting, but auctioning off prime periods on a regular basis more often than personal use could well fall under commercial renting, and could be enforced to a greater degree than currently should the DVC board decide to be more assertive on this issue. I understand and share people's unhappiness with this practice.
:happy1:

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

Originally posted by CarolMN
Maybe not, but at least we members have the same opportunity as the person who is renting his/her points to book the popular times.

I'm getting a LOT more concerned about how DVC gives inventory to CRO to rent for cash. Lately, there are a lot more posts from people saying they are getting DVC rooms for cash for early December - hard to believe it is all from the 4% ownersip that Disney retains. I know there are waitlists for this time and the 7 month window hasn't even opened yet!

Doesn't anyone else wonder how DVC chooses the time/units to send to CRO and how far ahead of time they do it? Can't help but wonder if they use the 11 month window. They obviously are not using the 7 month window as a criteria!

I have also wondered this. I believe that DVC uses whatever window is available on traded in points. If that means blocking of some rooms at Xmas in order to make the most money possible, they will. These are the vague aspects of the program that are never written down, or explained. There are alot of point mysteries with exchanges, that is why I perfer to rent out my points myself and pay cash for other Disney options. I can gauge the real value of that type of transaction.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Desperado
On this issue we dissagree. Certainly this would not apply to casual or occasional renting, but auctioning off prime periods on a regular basis more often than personal use could well fall under commercial renting, and could be enforced to a greater degree than currently should the DVC board decide to be more assertive on this issue. I understand and share people's unhappiness with this practice.
:happy1:

Regardless of what the POS says, my understanding is that is would be agaist Fl law for one group involved with a condo or similar to be prevented from doing the same thing another is doing. So I assertain that DVC would not be able to preventing renting period on any basis directly related to renting. Of course Disney is the 600# Gorilla and could try to throw their weight around. Even if that were not so, with no definition within the POS and the multiple locations specifically allowing renting, the courts would likely side with the owner and not the company. And finally, I think it's an overly aggressive interpretation to say that anything more than casual renting to friends and in special circunstances would even bring this into question as worded in the POS. I remain convinced that those who try to read it too strictly are engaging in wishful thinking.

 

[r8ingbull]

There is an aurgument to be made that thise type of regular auction rental practices of prime weeks falls under the commercial use clause, and DVC is just not choosing to enforce it for whatever reason.

Rather then speculate, why not simply call DVC and ask if it is OK to rent your points. They will say yes and you can stop complaining about how it is illegal.

 

[niks81]

Originally posted by r8ingbull
Rather then speculate, why not simply call DVC and ask if it is OK to rent your points. They will say yes and you can stop complaining about how it is illegal.

I agree

 

[jmminarik]

Originally posted by r8ingbull
Rather then speculate, why not simply call DVC and ask if it is OK to rent your points. They will say yes and you can stop complaining about how it is illegal.

Ok....but we can complain about the ethicality of reserving prime weeks for the sole purpose of renting them out.

-joe

 

[shelly3girls]

Apollo53
I don't know if we are just lucky, be we really have not had a problem reserving a room. We have reserved around the 11-month window, but last May we were able to add nights onto our reservation 2 weeks before we arrived. I think it is safest to reserve as early as possible, but I don't feel at all limited to when I can travel. Maybe we have just been lucky, but it doesn't feel much different to me than making reservations at some of the hotels. When we travel at peak travel times we know that if we want a specific type of room at a specific hotel we must book well advance. In January we reserved a cash room for March and we wanted a deluxe resort. We were very limited to availability and nothing was available at our first choice resort. We ended up with our fourth choice of type of room. Atleast we are still going to WDW!