Issue with using on-line to check for availability

My view is that once you set up something like on-line booking you are going to have members using it just to see about possible availability and sometimes just play around, more so in the early days after it begins than down the line later. The system should be set up with enough server capacity to handle whatever comes in that area along with actual bookings.

The argument that you should not use the system unless actually reserving because our dues are paying for this and we should not have to have higher dues for more server power has two major problems:

1. This is like arguing we should keep lousy service because we might have to pay more for good service. It is similar to the thus far not-so-good wifi system they have put in the rooms. Many have experienced, including me, that it it goes out service far too often when you are trying to use it. The "dues" argument is like asserting we should keep the wifi lousy so we don't have to spend any more money in dues. You need good wifi service so members can use it without it failing all the time even though many of those members are just playing around and surfing the web. Likewise, you should have enough server capacity to provide good on-line reservation service.

2. Those arguing that increasing server power will impact dues are actually wrong. You need to understand where the money comes from for centralized MS services including computer reservation services. The money actually comes from three dues line items. One is a $1 per member charge for centralized reservation systems. That $1 cannot be raised or lowered.

The second source is breakage income, what DVD gets from renting rooms that are still open sixty days out. Such income goes first to set off member dues up to 2.5% of the amount of the total annual operating budget. Any breakage income over that 2.5% then goes to funding MS, including its reservation services, and if breakage income is then high enough to fund MS, the excess above that goes to DVD to keep. As with the $1 charge, having more expensive MS services is not going to raise dues in relation to that line item.

Third, there is a "Management fee" that is equal to 12.5% of the total of the rest of the operatiing budget which can also defray costs for centralized services including computer costs, and then most of it is just basically a built in profit for DVD. The actual annual amount of that line item can increase because other portions of the annual budget increase but the 12.5% cannot be changed. Thus, you have a third source of dues that cannot increase if DVD decides to spend more money on better servers.

In other words, what is really going on is that DVD, when it increases centralized services costs, is simply cutting into the total income it gets from those three line items which do not vary based on actual costs incurred for such centralized services. Your dues are not going to change if DVD spends a little more to provide better server capacity. If the server power is not enough to handle what is going on, we should be insisting DVD improve it rather than chastising members under the false assumption that dues will increase if DVD spends a little more money on it.
 
Why would Disney do anything that doesn't benefit Disney? Unless adding server capacity reduces their cost they won't add it.

They wouldn't add additional Mousekeepers to ensure clean rooms and my understanding is that we would pay for that and we did this year with our dues increase.

Disney after all created their own city and Government and they sell admission tickets to itself to reduce taxes. They are very smart when it comes to ways to save money and increase profits.

:earsboy: Bill
 
My view is that once you set up something like on-line booking you are going to have members using it just to see about possible availability and sometimes just play around, more so in the early days after it begins than down the line later. The system should be set up with enough server capacity to handle whatever comes in that area along with actual bookings.

The argument that you should not use the system unless actually reserving because our dues are paying for this and we should not have to have higher dues for more server power has two major problems:

1. This is like arguing we should keep lousy service because we might have to pay more for good service. It is similar to the thus far not-so-good wifi system they have put in the rooms. Many have experienced, including me, that it it goes out service far too often when you are trying to use it. The "dues" argument is like asserting we should keep the wifi lousy so we don't have to spend any more money in dues. You need good wifi service so members can use it without it failing all the time even though many of those members are just playing around and surfing the web. Likewise, you should have enough server capacity to provide good on-line reservation service.

2. Those arguing that increasing server power will impact dues are actually wrong. You need to understand where the money comes from for centralized MS services including computer reservation services. The money actually comes from three dues line items. One is a $1 per member charge for centralized reservation systems. That $1 cannot be raised or lowered.

The second source is breakage income, what DVD gets from renting rooms that are still open sixty days out. Such income goes first to set off member dues up to 2.5% of the amount of the total annual operating budget. Any breakage income over that 2.5% then goes to funding MS, including its reservation services, and if breakage income is then high enough to fund MS, the excess above that goes to DVD to keep. As with the $1 charge, having more expensive MS services is not going to raise dues in relation to that line item.

Third, there is a "Management fee" that is equal to 12.5% of the total of the rest of the operatiing budget which can also defray costs for centralized services including computer costs, and then most of it is just basically a built in profit for DVD. The actual annual amount of that line item can increase because other portions of the annual budget increase but the 12.5% cannot be changed. Thus, you have a third source of dues that cannot increase if DVD decides to spend more money on better servers.

In other words, what is really going on is that DVD, when it increases centralized services costs, is simply cutting into the total income it gets from those three line items which do not vary based on actual costs incurred for such centralized services. Your dues are not going to change if DVD spends a little more to provide better server capacity. If the server power is not enough to handle what is going on, we should be insisting DVD improve it rather than chastising members under the false assumption that dues will increase if DVD spends a little more money on it.


The server power is quite adequate for the reason it was set up; to book a vacation. It can even handle some advance looking. It can not however handle many members just goofing around when they know they are months from when they can actually book or even looking for others that are months away.

There is no need to increase server power and increase costs. Hopefully as with all things members will remember we are not island and what is good for one should also be good for the others.

I can not book until later in the year and the only thing I have done is sign into my account and see if I have the link. Until the day gets closer for me to book, there is absolutely no reason for me to be in there just taking up a space.

I never called Member Services prior to the day I could actually book and I have no intention of changing that just because it is now online.
 
The server power is quite adequate for the reason it was set up; to book a vacation. It can even handle some advance looking. It can not however handle many members just goofing around when they know they are months from when they can actually book or even looking for others that are months away.

There is no need to increase server power and increase costs. Hopefully as with all things members will remember we are not island and what is good for one should also be good for the others.

I can not book until later in the year and the only thing I have done is sign into my account and see if I have the link. Until the day gets closer for me to book, there is absolutely no reason for me to be in there just taking up a space.

I never called Member Services prior to the day I could actually book and I have no intention of changing that just because it is now online.


I am curious as to how you know the exact number of people that the booking website can handle. For all I know it maybe able to handle every single DVC member at the same time. But I have no idea. As for you not going to the website for the next few months, that is your decision to make. I certainly don't see anything wrong with someone going to it to familiarize themselves with the site so when it comes time to book there is no confusion. To me that is just common sense. Not that the site is going to be this complex problem...its obviously quite easy to navigate, but I would still want to take a look at it before hand. I still don't think that people looking at it after the new calander day has been open for a while is going to create a log jam. Although I would feel bad if my looking actually did block someone from making a reservation.
 

I am curious as to how you know the exact number of people that the booking website can handle. For all I know it maybe able to handle every single DVC member at the same time. But I have no idea. As for you not going to the website for the next few months, that is your decision to make. I certainly don't see anything wrong with someone going to it to familiarize themselves with the site so when it comes time to book there is no confusion. To me that is just common sense. Not that the site is going to be this complex problem...its obviously quite easy to navigate, but I would still want to take a look at it before hand. I still don't think that people looking at it after the new calander day has been open for a while is going to create a log jam. Although I would feel bad if my looking actually did block someone from making a reservation.

DVC has said that they will use the link to limit traffic. Rather than allow the site to be overwhelmed, the link will be removed from DVCMember.com when a certain number of users are already browsing the online system.
 
DVC has said that they will use the link to limit traffic. Rather than allow the site to be overwhelmed, the link will be removed from DVCMember.com when a certain number of users are already browsing the online system.


Where did they say this? I would think that would be something that they would want all of their members to know.
 
Where did they say this? I would think that would be something that they would want all of their members to know.

Well TJ was told the same thing, so I am sure it was from his contacts. I was told by a DVC management member.

I don't imagine they need to post it online, if it gets too busy it will simply not let you in.

My guide said the same thing too. That it can not handle unlimited access. Very few if any sites can. Basically it's just common sense when it comes to Internet sites, they have a limited about of access.

The DIS has a huge server base and even they are constantly have to enlarge to keep up with the traffic.
 
Well TJ was told the same thing, so I am sure it was from his contacts. I was told by a DVC management member.

I don't imagine they need to post it online, if it gets too busy it will simply not let you in.

My guide said the same thing too. That it can not handle unlimited access. Very few if any sites can. Basically it's just common sense when it comes to Internet sites, they have a limited about of access.

The DIS has a huge server base and even they are constantly have to enlarge to keep up with the traffic.


Thats not really different than any other site I guess. I would think that if it becomes a constant problem and keeps shutting down then it just isn't set up properly. DVC isn't a not for profit organization. I'm sure it can afford to set up the site to handle the traffic most of the time. Our dues are not going to skyrocket because of it.

By the way...who is TJ?
 
Thats not really different than any other site I guess. I would think that if it becomes a constant problem and keeps shutting down then it just isn't set up properly. DVC isn't a not for profit organization. I'm sure it can afford to set up the site to handle the traffic most of the time. Our dues are not going to skyrocket because of it.

By the way...who is TJ?

TJKraz frequent poster here and has a site DVCNews.
 
Exactly. It's like going to Target to shop for a particular item. You spend time looking to make sure they have it, take it to the counter, get in line, and when the clerk ask how you wish to pay, you say, " Oh I don't want to buy it today, I don't get paid until two weeks." So why are you even here. :confused3

This argument only holds water when discussing the 7/11 month window which only handles reservations for that one day. How many people call MS a day or two after, or a week or 2, or in between the two windows to make changes and reservations. If I want to do some planning and see what my choices at my home resort at 10 months or somewhere else at 6, this is what is fantastic about the online system and its perfectly legitimate use.

Using online booking as a planning tool ties up room inventory. One member may be just looking around with no intention of booking keeps someone else who needs a reservation from getting it.

:earsboy: Bill

Sorry, but this is just not the case. It does not put a hold on any inventory until you click through the link to "Select this Resort". After that if you try and change your search you will get a warning that a hold will be lost, before that action no such warning is given. This is no different than how MS operates and I have seen many reports of CM's saying they had a room and after some discussions or what not, the room is no longer available...

But it does use bandwidth and server resources. Paid by our dues.

Have you noticed the DIS is running slowly? Why, because there is so much traffic that the current servers can't compensate. New servers have been ordered.

This is a very bad comparison. How old are the DIS servers? How long have they been in use. What kind of maintenance is done on the DBs etc. Is it mysql or something enterprise?

We have no idea the back end that Disney is using, but I doubt they would put the new system on old and depreciated systems. If they did we'd all know it by now...

There are members all over the world, which was the main reason for the online service in fact 500,000 of them. Your evening is their morning.

This statement backs up part of my argument as far as bandwidth is concerned, especially with the current 7/11 windows being enforced and the fact that people are all over the world, you will not be seeing anywhere close to 500,000 users hitting the system at any one time. Once the newness wears off, the fact that people book at different times of days and vacation 365 days a year, this should spread the load out pretty naturally.

Of course Disney is going to scale this out slowly to see how it is. It's new and never been under real usage before. They are taking it slow and careful and probably doing a lot of tuning as we put the system under load. There is nothing surprising about it. This is a good best practice and they've exceeded expectations... How many people thought they would be fully open to everyone within 3 days...and I believe it was stated that everyone (cookies and other issues aside) should have had access the same day.

Modern web servers can handle quite a number of simultaneous users as can database servers. I doubt this system is sitting only 2-3 servers though and therefore I'm pretty confident that it can handle quite a lot more than you think...

Searching and using the online system as a planning tool is a legitimate and constructive use of the system. It doesn't cost any additional money once the system is in place for me to do some queries as opposed to taking time away from an MS operator and tying up a phone line just to ask about availability during a busy time to see what my options are in different resorts, rooms, etc. Let the CM's be free for people who really need it. The comparison if you really want to be technical is pennies for an online query to dollars for a live person query...

Also, I will end on this last point. We all pay our dues. We are each paying for this system. How I want to use it is my business. I'm one person using my fair share of what I'm paying for. If I decide to watching Netflix in my villa before I go to bed, it's the same thing... our dues pay for the internet bandwidth and I'm entitled to its use. Of course me watching video in the room over the network uses bandwidth and resources that we all pay for, but it's what we pay for. After all, and just like everyone else.... I've paid my share.
 
This argument only holds water when discussing the 7/11 month window which only handles reservations for that one day. How many people call MS a day or two after, or a week or 2, or in between the two windows to make changes and reservations. If I want to do some planning and see what my choices at my home resort at 10 months or somewhere else at 6, this is what is fantastic about the online system and its perfectly legitimate use.



Sorry, but this is just not the case. It does not put a hold on any inventory until you click through the link to "Select this Resort". After that if you try and change your search you will get a warning that a hold will be lost, before that action no such warning is given. This is no different than how MS operates and I have seen many reports of CM's saying they had a room and after some discussions or what not, the room is no longer available...



This is a very bad comparison. How old are the DIS servers? How long have they been in use. What kind of maintenance is done on the DBs etc. Is it mysql or something enterprise?

We have no idea the back end that Disney is using, but I doubt they would put the new system on old and depreciated systems. If they did we'd all know it by now...



This statement backs up part of my argument as far as bandwidth is concerned, especially with the current 7/11 windows being enforced and the fact that people are all over the world, you will not be seeing anywhere close to 500,000 users hitting the system at any one time. Once the newness wears off, the fact that people book at different times of days and vacation 365 days a year, this should spread the load out pretty naturally.

Of course Disney is going to scale this out slowly to see how it is. It's new and never been under real usage before. They are taking it slow and careful and probably doing a lot of tuning as we put the system under load. There is nothing surprising about it. This is a good best practice and they've exceeded expectations... How many people thought they would be fully open to everyone within 3 days...and I believe it was stated that everyone (cookies and other issues aside) should have had access the same day.

Modern web servers can handle quite a number of simultaneous users as can database servers. I doubt this system is sitting only 2-3 servers though and therefore I'm pretty confident that it can handle quite a lot more than you think...

Searching and using the online system as a planning tool is a legitimate and constructive use of the system. It doesn't cost any additional money once the system is in place for me to do some queries as opposed to taking time away from an MS operator and tying up a phone line just to ask about availability during a busy time to see what my options are in different resorts, rooms, etc. Let the CM's be free for people who really need it. The comparison if you really want to be technical is pennies for an online query to dollars for a live person query...

Also, I will end on this last point. We all pay our dues. We are each paying for this system. How I want to use it is my business. I'm one person using my fair share of what I'm paying for. If I decide to watching Netflix in my villa before I go to bed, it's the same thing... our dues pay for the internet bandwidth and I'm entitled to its use. Of course me watching video in the room over the network uses bandwidth and resources that we all pay for, but it's what we pay for. After all, and just like everyone else.... I've paid my share.


As I said previously, But yes some are not going to care about their fellow member and will do whatever they want, when they want it. As to the DIS they are constantly updating their servers.
 
As I said previously, But yes some are not going to care about their fellow member and will do whatever they want, when they want it.

You can look at it how you want. Your welcome to your opinion. I'm trying to point out that the impact to my fellow members are not as great as these threads are making it out to be.
 
This argument only holds water when discussing the 7/11 month window which only handles reservations for that one day. How many people call MS a day or two after, or a week or 2, or in between the two windows to make changes and reservations. If I want to do some planning and see what my choices at my home resort at 10 months or somewhere else at 6, this is what is fantastic about the online system and its perfectly legitimate use.



Sorry, but this is just not the case. It does not put a hold on any inventory until you click through the link to "Select this Resort". After that if you try and change your search you will get a warning that a hold will be lost, before that action no such warning is given. This is no different than how MS operates and I have seen many reports of CM's saying they had a room and after some discussions or what not, the room is no longer available...



This is a very bad comparison. How old are the DIS servers? How long have they been in use. What kind of maintenance is done on the DBs etc. Is it mysql or something enterprise?

We have no idea the back end that Disney is using, but I doubt they would put the new system on old and depreciated systems. If they did we'd all know it by now...



This statement backs up part of my argument as far as bandwidth is concerned, especially with the current 7/11 windows being enforced and the fact that people are all over the world, you will not be seeing anywhere close to 500,000 users hitting the system at any one time. Once the newness wears off, the fact that people book at different times of days and vacation 365 days a year, this should spread the load out pretty naturally.

Of course Disney is going to scale this out slowly to see how it is. It's new and never been under real usage before. They are taking it slow and careful and probably doing a lot of tuning as we put the system under load. There is nothing surprising about it. This is a good best practice and they've exceeded expectations... How many people thought they would be fully open to everyone within 3 days...and I believe it was stated that everyone (cookies and other issues aside) should have had access the same day.

Modern web servers can handle quite a number of simultaneous users as can database servers. I doubt this system is sitting only 2-3 servers though and therefore I'm pretty confident that it can handle quite a lot more than you think...

Searching and using the online system as a planning tool is a legitimate and constructive use of the system. It doesn't cost any additional money once the system is in place for me to do some queries as opposed to taking time away from an MS operator and tying up a phone line just to ask about availability during a busy time to see what my options are in different resorts, rooms, etc. Let the CM's be free for people who really need it. The comparison if you really want to be technical is pennies for an online query to dollars for a live person query...

Also, I will end on this last point. We all pay our dues. We are each paying for this system. How I want to use it is my business. I'm one person using my fair share of what I'm paying for. If I decide to watching Netflix in my villa before I go to bed, it's the same thing... our dues pay for the internet bandwidth and I'm entitled to its use. Of course me watching video in the room over the network uses bandwidth and resources that we all pay for, but it's what we pay for. After all, and just like everyone else.... I've paid my share.

I have to agree with you Inevo. I don't even necessarily care one way or the other for myself, I just differ in opinion from what sammie believes is what the site should be used for. There really isn't a right and wrong. I think we are beating a dead horse here now and I guess some of us will just have to agree to disagree.
 
This argument only holds water when discussing the 7/11 month window which only handles reservations for that one day. How many people call MS a day or two after, or a week or 2, or in between the two windows to make changes and reservations. If I want to do some planning and see what my choices at my home resort at 10 months or somewhere else at 6, this is what is fantastic about the online system and its perfectly legitimate use.

Sorry, but this is just not the case. It does not put a hold on any inventory until you click through the link to "Select this Resort". After that if you try and change your search you will get a warning that a hold will be lost, before that action no such warning is given. This is no different than how MS operates and I have seen many reports of CM's saying they had a room and after some discussions or what not, the room is no longer available...

Just wanted to comment on the last bit that I bolded... that is definitely not true. The CMs at MS can hold inventory before completing a booking. I called in earlier this week to change a reservation. There was 1 villa left in the resort/room category I wanted to book. I had several questions I needed answered prior to commiting to the booking. The CM patiently answered them. It took about 10 minutes. When we were done talking, I jokingly commented that the room was probably gone, because asking my questions took so long. She said "I held it for you". So she took the room out of inventory and held it for about 10 minutes until I was sure I wanted to book. It does seem as though the online system can't hold inventory, but the CMs at MS definitely can.
 
Just wanted to comment on the last bit that I bolded... that is definitely not true. The CMs at MS can hold inventory before completing a booking. I called in earlier this week to change a reservation. There was 1 villa left in the resort/room category I wanted to book. I had several questions I needed answered prior to commiting to the booking. The CM patiently answered them. It took about 10 minutes. When we were done talking, I jokingly commented that the room was probably gone, because asking my questions took so long. She said "I held it for you". So she took the room out of inventory and held it for about 10 minutes until I was sure I wanted to book. It does seem as though the online system can't hold inventory, but the CMs at MS definitely can.

The system holds after you click "Select this Resort" this is similar to what you described. I'm talking about people who have lots of questions on different places and after checking out one and then deciding on another go back and the original room is no longer available. My point was just doing a search does not do a hold, you have to click through to continue the booking process for a hold to get placed.
 











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