Is "Walking a reservation" unethical?

[MJ6987]

1. Multiple bites at the apple. All I need is to secure 7 days once to start walking. If I start walking 2 weeks out and I miss the room at 8am, try again tomorrow.

If I miss on my booking day, off to waitlist.

A dozen or more chances to lock-in in the room is much more favorable odds than 1 shot.

2. Most walking veterans don't call every day, but do as you suggest.

3. That's fine if you're booking five nights. Book for seven and a few days later, knock off the first two. Can't do that if you want 7 nights because that's the most you can book past the window.

1. I think "walkers" generally start their "walk" when it is easier to book-which could be a week (end of sept vs early oct for F&W) but could be longer (I saw a post previously that AKL CL rooms have had some long walks)

2. I have no idea-theoretically you shouldn't have to call until your last day since if you have that room nobody could book it until your checkout day EXCEPT resorts with fixed weeks since you could book a room type that will be used for a fixed week in the upcoming week/weeks-if you didn't call each day someone booking after you might get the last room avail for the days you really wanted.

3. When you say add the additional days online do you mean after the original reservation is made? You cannot modify your reservation online yourself you must contact member services-you can only cancel and rebook

2. Yes, as previously mentioned, that works at 11 months with the small risk of fixed-weeks upsetting your plan. Some people try to walk at 7 months, and that really requires a daily walk.
3. Yes, subject to the 7 day limit at the booking threshold. If you only want two days, you could book seven days at five days ahead of time, and then just call to drop the first five days later.

Thanks all

 

[crisi]

I don't think it is unethical. Something being ethical involves a moral issue. .

I'd argue that there are moral issues involved. Each call to MS costs money - walkers make more phone calls than the average person, and the burden of that cost falls on the membership as a whole. You are also taking something you don't intend to keep, keeping it from someone who may want to use it. Its like when someone in my 2nd grade Sunday School class grabs one of the few purple markers and holds onto it while they color with one of the plentiful blue markers - they aren't using it - they are holding it for "in case they want to use it." In Sunday school, we teach that behavior is "not nice" - which is the second grade equivalent of unethical.

 

[ziravan]

To me, a successful walk takes work. The reward is based on working it. That balances things out ethically for me.

If it's worth working it to get a reservation, do it.

Most people won't. Those that don't didn't want it as much.

Effort balances desire.

Those that don't know about walking? Tough, and that's not being mean. There's a concept in politics called rational indifference. People always complain that the average voter doesn't bother to become informed. What's in it for them? Many people don't feel the effort to become informed is worth the outcome their single vote creates. They are indifferent to politics and that's a rational choice. As a result, however, not being informed has consequences both in the body politic and in your personal engagement (especially when the government is spending thousands of dollars in your name). It's the same principle. If people wish to spend thousands of dollars on a product yet not bother to inform themselves about how it works, I can't blame them. But, I'm not going to feel sorry for them, either.

 

[crisi]

To me, a successful walk takes work. The reward is based on working it. That balances things out ethically for me.

If it's worth working it to get a reservation, do it.

Most people won't. Those that don't didn't want it as much.

Effort balances desire.

Those that don't know about walking? Tough, and that's not being mean. There's a concept in politics called rational indifference. People always complain that the average voter doesn't bother to become informed. What's in it for them? Many people don't feel the effort to become informed is worth the outcome their single vote creates. They are indifferent to politics and that's a rational choice. As a result, however, not being informed has consequences both in the body politic and in your personal engagement (especially when the government is spending thousands of dollars in your name). It's the same principle. If people wish to spend thousands of dollars on a product yet not bother to inform themselves about how it works, I can't blame them. But, I'm not going to feel sorry for them, either.

Lots of stuff thats unethical takes work. - The entire industry of investment banking (kidding - sort of). That doesn't make it ethical.

 

[ziravan]

Lots of stuff thats unethical takes work. - The entire industry of investment banking (kidding - sort of). That doesn't make it ethical.

My point is that there are trade offs. Walking a reservation takes work.

So, you essentially have three groups of owners:

1. Walkers - it's worth it to them to take the time and effort to get the reservation they want.

2. Those who know about/how to walk, and don't. It's not worth their time to walk and that's a rational decision.

3. Those that don't know about walking. It's not worth their time to learn how to maximize their ownership and that is also a rational decision.

So you have a meritocracy here: the success of walking is proportional to the amount of time vested.

I don't believe those that know how to walk but don't are penalized by walkers. That's their choice. I don't see how those that don't know about walking are penalized; that's also a choice.

Ergo. I don't see how it's unethical. In fact, I think it's ultimately quite egalitarian: everybody has an equal chance to walk a reservation even if some choose not to do do and some choose not even to learn about it.

 

[supersnoop]

I don't believe those that know how to walk but don't are penalized by walkers. That's their choice. I don't see how those that don't know about walking are penalized; that's also a choice.

There are at least two threads right now about people trying to book BWV for food and wine at 11 months and have been blocked out. They see some days, but not enough, open back up a few days later. I would say those people are absolutely penalized by walkers. So, if they are in fact being affected, does that make it unethical to you?

 

[supersnoop]

Its like when someone in my 2nd grade Sunday School class grabs one of the few purple markers and holds onto it while they color with one of the plentiful blue markers - they aren't using it - they are holding it for "in case they want to use it." In Sunday school, we teach that behavior is "not nice" - which is the second grade equivalent of unethical.

I love this example.

 

[ziravan]

There are at least two threads right now about people trying to book BWV for food and wine at 11 months and have been blocked out. They see some days, but not enough, open back up a few days later. I would say those people are absolutely penalized by walkers. So, if they are in fact being affected, does that make it unethical to you?

Obviously they are being affected, but they aren't being penalized because they could walk, too.

That's especially true for a poster on this board who has the know how to do so at their fingertips.

So, the rooms are going to the owners who place the highest priority on securing the room. To me, that's fair, and therefore, ethical.

 

[supersnoop]

Obviously they are being affected, but they aren't being penalized because they could walk, too.

That's especially true for a poster on this board who has the know how to do so at their fingertips.

So, the rooms are going to the owners who place the highest priority on securing the room. To me, that's fair, and therefore, ethical.

Just because they're on here doesn't mean they know how to walk. I see ignorant posts from people with thousands of posts constantly. I think it's unfair to say that someone who stumbled upon the method to walk a reservation has a higher priority than someone who's logging in at 7:59:59 to book a reservation.

 

[ziravan]

Its like when someone in my 2nd grade Sunday School class grabs one of the few purple markers and holds onto it while they color with one of the plentiful blue markers - they aren't using it - they are holding it for "in case they want to use it." In Sunday school, we teach that behavior is "not nice" - which is the second grade equivalent of unethical.

Your analogy isn't accurate because the walker isn't holding the rare purple marker just in case, and he's not booking the blue marker at all. The whole point is to be able to use the purple marker.

A better analogy is the walker waits patiently for the purple marker and when he gets it, the other kids that didn't bother to wait cry that it's not fair that they only got a blue marker so the Sunday School teacher wants to take the purple marker from the kid who waited and give it to a child that didn't wait, just to be fair.

Except. That's not fair.

 

[ziravan]

Just because they're on here doesn't mean they know how to walk. I see ignorant posts from people with thousands of posts constantly. I think it's unfair to say that someone who stumbled upon the method to walk a reservation has a higher priority than someone who's logging in at 7:59:59 to book a reservation.

Learning how to maximize a timeshare isn't stumbling at all. It takes work. That work should be rewarded.

 

[ziravan]

For the record, I've never walked a reservation.

But. I do have a F&W fixed week for Poly. I will beat every 11 month owner to the punch each and every year after Poly sells out to a November reservation.

Is that unethical? Just like walking a reservation, the rules allow it.

Just like walking a reservation, I'm taking advantage of a little known rule to beat out other 11 month bookings. After all, it's not like the guides are telling anybody about fixed weeks.

But I knew about it because I took the time to learn.

 

[CMNJ]

For the record, I've never walked a reservation.

But. I do have a F&W fixed week for Poly. I will beat every 11 month owner to the punch each and every year after Poly sells out to a November reservation.

Is that unethical? Just like walking a reservation, the rules allow it.

Just like walking a reservation, I'm taking advantage of a little known rule to beat out other 11 month bookings. After all, it's not like the guides are telling anybody about fixed weeks.

But I knew about it because I took the time to learn.

I wouldn't consider owning a fixed week unethical or taking advantage of the rules-you paid a premium to guarantee your week which is in your deed. You basically bought a traditional timeshare. Should you not choose to utilize your fixed week you are back to the same 11 month booking window all other owners that didn't pay the premium have.
As far as DVC not advertising the availability of fixed weeks that's on them not you. I assume they don't advertise it because it is easier to sell points than whole weeks (with a slight premium) as they really push how flexible the program is. Plus I suspect they wouldn't want to alert potential buyers that some weeks could potentially only have 65% avail at 11 months.

 

[davper]

Just because they're on here doesn't mean they know how to walk.

Is there a system that is preventing them obtaining this knowledge? I say no. So should everyone else be made to feel like they are doing something morally wrong because someone else doesn't know how to use the system to it's fullest?

I get early access to concert tickets because I am a member of a club. A club that anyone can join without discrimination. I found this out by doing my homework. Should I feel bad because my neighbor that gets online the moment the tickets go on sale to the public is too late?

 

[supersnoop]

Is there a system that is preventing them obtaining this knowledge? I say no. So should everyone else be made to feel like they are doing something morally wrong because someone else doesn't know how to use the system to it's fullest?

Do you think the ability to walk is intentional? Was it part of the design when the +7 ability was introduced? Or is it a loophole that some people exploit?

DVC tried to make something easier for lots of people, and opened up a loophole that a few people have learned how to exploit. Just because not everyone knows about it doesn't make it right.

 

[RAD]

I've owned at BWV since 1999 and this year was the very first time I walked a reservation. I wanted a GV at BWV the week of Christmas, if I hadn't done that there was very doubtful that I would have gotten it since I was arriving on Sunday and the folks arriving Saturday would have beat me to it.

 

[davper]

Do you think the ability to walk is intentional? Was it part of the design when the +7 ability was introduced? Or is it a loophole that some people exploit?

DVC tried to make something easier for lots of people, and opened up a loophole that a few people have learned how to exploit. Just because not everyone knows about it doesn't make it right.

Just because not everyone knows about it doesn't make it wrong either.

How do you know it is a loophole? Do you work for Disney? How do you know that they didn't know that this was going to be a possibility? And if it is an unintended consequence, is it limited to only a select few or to all? I see no advantage to any one person that is not available to anyone else. Ignorance of the process does not constitute a disadvantage. It just makes you ill-informed.

When I use it, I am not putting you at a disadvantage. You are putting yourself at a disadvantage by not using it.

I work for a 2 billion dollar company. A drop in the bucket compared to Disney. We have been testing a change for the last 6 months before we go live. I have to believe that Disney does the same given the amount of money that is at risk for them if they screw it up.

 

[davper]

Is using the left line wrong because others are not aware that there are 2 lines?

 

[DougEMG]

I've never felt the need to walk a reservation, mainly because I've been able to be flexible about when we go, but I still end up calling member services a lot to keep on adding additional days since we go for 3-5 weeks at a time. So I normally call every day or second day to add more days to the initial 7.

 

[crisi]

Your analogy isn't accurate because the walker isn't holding the rare purple marker just in case, and he's not booking the blue marker at all. The whole point is to be able to use the purple marker.

A better analogy is the walker waits patiently for the purple marker and when he gets it, the other kids that didn't bother to wait cry that it's not fair that they only got a blue marker so the Sunday School teacher wants to take the purple marker from the kid who waited and give it to a child that didn't wait, just to be fair.

Except. That's not fair.

Except you aren't using the purple marker now, you are holding onto the purple marker for when you want to use it later. In the meantime, kirstenrice needs the purple marker - which you aren't using, but you are holding onto in case you need it. At some point, you let go of the purple marker, and kristen had better be ready to grab it, or someone else will take the purple marker and she won't ever get to use it. I'm sorry, in my book, that isn't ethical.

As I said in my first post - its less problematic if the waitlist does indeed kick in on first come, first served, because then someone can't sweep in and grab it when you've been waiting patiently. Which has never been fair.

I'm also of the belief that this was not intended design and we are exploiting a loophole. And of the belief that the loophole will get closed (and I suspect after this F&W/early December booking period or the next one - I don't think it won't be too many more years).