Is this Racial ?

[CustardTart]

...If he did actually say that 2nd line then I'm sorry it is racist. If people continue to say these things it is still seen as acceptable and it clearly isn't...

Absolutely agree...

I think the only way I see this, is that I have never told that rhyme using that word, and as my girls are 18 & nearly 16, I have been aware for a long time not to use it. So I guess that deep down I have always found the word offensive, even in a nursery rhyme

Same here, Mandy. Even as a kid, I remember not using the word but substituting a throat-clearing noise in it's place...

I'm sorry but I am in agreement with those that think there is no cause for the use of the word he used, regardless of the context in which it was used.

To me, it certainly has racist connotations and I think your husband ought to have thought carefully before he used that word, especially knowing that there was somebody present who may be offended by it.

I do think we have to be very careful what we say nowadays but, personally, I don't see anything wrong with taking the time to think before you speak.

Exactly. I'm sorry you feel your husband is being unfairly treated but I was under the impression that use of the word in question constitutes a racial slur whatever the context. IMO it's just unacceptable in this day and age...

 

[orlandothebeagle]

The guy concerned is my husband. Yes he did use the second line - yes we learnt it as children and so that version was the one in his head. Yes he apologised as soon as he realised he had caused her offence. She refuses to accept the apology, she wants a disciplinery hearing so that's what she is getting - tomorrow.

He may lose his job, his reputation, everything.


He is not racist - he sponsors a child in the sudan - he has Indian friends (was asked to be 'an honourary woman guest' at an Indian friend's Hindu wedding) - but all that is ignored because someone in an open office environment overheard what was intended to be a lighthearted joke where the actual rhyme used was irrelevant.

In my opinion SHE is the racist - against a white person because he accidentally used an old fashioned out of date saying and then immediately apologised for doing so

Sounds like he was thoughtless rather than racist, hope he gets on ok tom.
Why did you not say it was your dh in original post?
Let me know how he gets on,

 

[mark&sue]

I am so sorry you are having to go through this as this must be a nightmare for you and totally beyond your control.


Susan

 

[Natasha&Matt]

People are so pathetic!!

 

[susieh]

I do think we have to be very careful what we say nowadays but, personally, I don't see anything wrong with taking the time to think before you speak.

All I can say is you have obviously been very lucky never to have been in a situation where you don't have time to think before you speak.

 

[Netty]

This country has gone to the dogs. Nothing can be said without someone taking offence. What happened to free speech?

It would be interesting to see who actually complained or was it a good old tittle tattle to get someone in trouble

Sorry but the whole episode is totally pathetic!

I totally agree with you PC gone mad again...pathetic

The guy concerned is my husband. Yes he did use the second line - yes we learnt it as children and so that version was the one in his head. Yes he apologised as soon as he realised he had caused her offence. She refuses to accept the apology, she wants a disciplinery hearing so that's what she is getting - tomorrow.

He may lose his job, his reputation, everything.

He is not racist - he sponsors a child in the sudan - he has Indian friends (was asked to be 'an honourary woman guest' at an Indian friend's Hindu wedding) - but all that is ignored because someone in an open office environment overheard what was intended to be a lighthearted joke where the actual rhyme used was irrelevant.

In my opinion SHE is the racist - against a white person because he accidentally used an old fashioned out of date saying and then immediately apologised for doing so

I hope your dh doesnt lose his job over this

 

[susieh]

Why did you not say it was your dh in original post?

I didn't mention it was DH because I wanted to see how other people felt about the situation and therefore avoided personalising it at all.

Seems like most people see it as an unfortunate but not malicious mistake whereas others see it as being unacceptable and he should be punished the same as if he'd called her it to her face.

It's probably obvious from my earlier post how I feel about her now - to me she has made personal something that was not so - I won't say any more

 

[wideeyes]

Sorry but the rhyme is racist and she had every right to complain if she felt offended. I would think if the company didn't act they would be breaking the race relations act and could get done for discrimination themselves.

 

[jen_uk]

Ive only just learnt what the 2nd line is! I always thought it was catch a Tiger, if the original line was used then it is racist. However, I think sacking someone is an over reaction.

 

[joolz1910]

I would be shocked if anyone used that word in front of me. I think that it is a disciplinary issue but I would not like to see anyone lose their job if they realised the offence they had caused and were genuinely remorseful. There is a difference between a one-off error of judgement and systematic racist bullying.

 

[kieras nana]

i have just had to google it,to find out,what the word is.
i have never in my life,heard this rhyme,using that word & i would be shocked,if i had.
i could never imagine anyone,choosing to say it,in this day & age.
i personally detest the word & find it,one of the most offensive words ever.
should he be sacked,no,given a stern warning,yes.
tracy

 

[susieh]

I didnt make it clear that she was not one of the people in the team that was being chosen from. She just happens to sit in the same open office area.

But it seems that wouldn't make a difference to many people's views.

 

[disneyhockeymad]

At the risk of being shot down I have to say this is maybe a huge fuss over something that shouldn't be fussed over quite as much. Before you immediately shoot me down give me a minute to explain!

Had he meant it and said it maliciously, or indeed thought about it and still chosen to say it then yes discipline him, fire him, whoever says it deserves it. But I have been utterly convinced that he genuinely did not mean to say it racially and maybe yes he should have picked a better phrase but he said it without thinking and he as soon as he had he apologied, had he been completely ignorant it may have been a different story. I think this women is milking it for all she can get as horrid as that sounds. Yes now she has lodged the complaint they need to investigate it further but he does not need to get fired for a mistake he apologised profusely for straight away.

 

[orlandothebeagle]

At the risk of being shot down I have to say this is maybe a huge fuss over something that shouldn't be fussed over quite as much. Before you immediately shoot me down give me a minute to explain!

Had he meant it and said it maliciously, or indeed thought about it and still chosen to say it then yes discipline him, fire him, whoever says it deserves it. But I have been utterly convinced that he genuinely did not mean to say it racially and maybe yes he should have picked a better phrase but he said it without thinking and he as soon as he had he apologied, had he been completely ignorant it may have been a different story. I think this women is milking it for all she can get as horrid as that sounds. Yes now she has lodged the complaint they need to investigate it further but he does not need to get fired for a mistake he apologised profusely for straight away.

I certainly will not flame you.

 

[wideeyes]

I wouldn't criticize the woman as we don't know how she felt or how it may of hurt and upset her or what else she has had to deal with because of her race. I think if she felt offended she has every right to make a complaint as the word should never used and for that complaint to be taken seriously, people have fought for hundreds of years for her to have that right and to dismiss it as political correctness gone mad is offence to what those people have achieved.

HOWEVER I do think it would be a shame for him to lose his job over this.

 

[disneyhockeymad]

I wouldn't criticize the woman as we don't know how she felt or how it may of hurt and upset her or what else she has had to deal with because of her race. I think if she felt offended she has every right to make a complaint as the word should never used and for that complaint to be taken seriously, people have fought for hundreds of years for her to have that right and to dismiss it as political correctness gone mad is offence to what those people have achieved.

HOWEVER I do think it would be a shame for him to lose his job over this.

Yer I read my comment back afterwards and realised the words I used were a little strong I just couldn't think of any other way to put it. I'm taking nothing away from the struggle and plight that coloured people had to go through to achieve what they have, heck I studied it for a whole year at school, although this obviously cant come close to personal feeling at all I can sympathise and I have nothing but admiration for those who stood up and fought.

I think because none of us were there none of us can decide how either reacted and were feeling, me included, I just think it's a shame that our country has become as PC as it has so quickly (I'm not just referring to this event) especially when genuine mistakes happen and things slip out which weren't meant to and weren't properly thought through. I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I've been using that phrase recently when deciding how to split chores with a very close coloured friend (I apologise if using the term coloured offends anyone.. and that wasn't meant to be sarcasm) and she took no offence to it at all, infact both her and I didn't even know what connotations it could have until today. Unfortunately we are in a society where any thing can offend anyone, which is such a shame.

 

[wideeyes]

Yer I read my comment back afterwards and realised the words I used were a little strong I just couldn't think of any other way to put it. I'm taking nothing away from the struggle and plight that coloured people had to go through to achieve what they have, heck I studied it for a whole year at school, although this obviously cant come close to personal feeling at all I can sympathise and I have nothing but admiration for those who stood up and fought.

I think because none of us were there none of us can decide how either reacted and were feeling, me included, I just think it's a shame that our country has become as PC as it has so quickly (I'm not just referring to this event) especially when genuine mistakes happen and things slip out which weren't meant to and weren't properly thought through. I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I've been using that phrase recently when deciding how to split chores with a very close coloured friend (I apologise if using the term coloured offends anyone.. and that wasn't meant to be sarcasm) and she took no offence to it at all, infact both her and I didn't even know what connotations it could have until today. Unfortunately we are in a society where any thing can offend anyone, which is such a shame.

Just to add I wasn't having a go at you or anyone else on this thread I was just defending the womans right to make her complaint.

 

[disneyhockeymad]

Just to add I wasn't having a go at you or anyone else on this thread I was just defending the womans right to make her complaint.

Oh no I realised that, I just realised that my comment was a tad on the harsh side!!

 

[Netty]

At the risk of being shot down I have to say this is maybe a huge fuss over something that shouldn't be fussed over quite as much. Before you immediately shoot me down give me a minute to explain!

Had he meant it and said it maliciously, or indeed thought about it and still chosen to say it then yes discipline him, fire him, whoever says it deserves it. But I have been utterly convinced that he genuinely did not mean to say it racially and maybe yes he should have picked a better phrase but he said it without thinking and he as soon as he had he apologied, had he been completely ignorant it may have been a different story. I think this women is milking it for all she can get as horrid as that sounds. Yes now she has lodged the complaint they need to investigate it further but he does not need to get fired for a mistake he apologised profusely for straight away.

well said!

 

[Cyrano]

At the risk of being shot down I have to say this is maybe a huge fuss over something that shouldn't be fussed over quite as much. Before you immediately shoot me down give me a minute to explain!

Had he meant it and said it maliciously, or indeed thought about it and still chosen to say it then yes discipline him, fire him, whoever says it deserves it. But I have been utterly convinced that he genuinely did not mean to say it racially and maybe yes he should have picked a better phrase but he said it without thinking and he as soon as he had he apologied, had he been completely ignorant it may have been a different story. I think this women is milking it for all she can get as horrid as that sounds. Yes now she has lodged the complaint they need to investigate it further but he does not need to get fired for a mistake he apologised profusely for straight away.

I also would not flame you but do not accept that in the world today it is acceptable to hark back to what was acceptable in a distant past.

It cannot have escaped anyone that we live in a multi-cultural society and world.

I agree it would be harsh for this person to lose their job over this. Especially as their apology had been emphatic and immediate.
But some retraining and support about diginty of the individual and a better awareness would be in order

As always there are two sides. I feel for the OP who's husbands world has been thrown upside down. Similarly the person who complained I'm guessing never imagined that she would hear/witness this in a modern, accepting society.

It was not that many threads ago we were all decrying the behaviour of those parents regarding a children's presenter with disabilities. I'm sure their prejudices were not designed to offend or hurt