Is this Passive Aggressive or not?

[Pakey]

It was excruciatingly passive aggressive.

Sending the e-mail to the entire group was so unnecessary and is what makes what you did so very passive aggressive. Even if you "meant" to send it to everyone.

Just my opinion of course.

And my opinion also.

 

[Agri]

Yes. It was very passive aggressive because instead of dealing with her directly in the first place, you resorted to the childish act of just letting everyone basically eavesdrop on the conversation with no explanation. Did you tack on "I'm sending this to everyone so there is no misunderstandings in our communication?"

All that aside, IHMO, its childish to *not* deal with someone directly first before involving everyone else. Its obvious there is bad blood between the two of you, so you think the worst and respond in a passive-aggressive, childish manner - giving yourself a way out to say "Oh, its was a mistake" even though you state here that you won't do that.

Involving other people who are not directly involved in an issue is almost *always* passive aggressive. Why do these other people need to know that you are not shirking your responsibilities? If they ask you about what happened, then you talk - not before. You're bound to not be the only person who has had problems with this woman, so now you've just lowered yourself to her level.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Interesting discussion...

I think there's no reason not to write a note - even to everyone - requesting whatever it is that you want, as long as it is on the up and up. That is being assertive.

Because this note had a snarky undertone, was written under the pretense of being "nice", and was intended for just one person when it was fairly clear that the OP was p'd and just wanted everyone else to see it, it in effect berated and embarrassed the recipient - which, really, was the intent, by her admission. That was being aggressive (passive, IMO; plain old aggressive would have been an angry tone without the pretense).

Given the woman's history and personality, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

Not completely disagreeing but I think you can also look at it another way - that two wrongs don't make a right. Both of these ladies are acting immaturely.

Just write the dang note being honest. Without the game playing.

Dear So and So,

While I love volunteering with xyz organization, my weekday schedule is such that I must make accommodations for volunteering on weekends, so I'd really appreciate it if you could let me know as early as possible what my weekend schedule will be.

Thank You.

cc group

Or something to that effect...

 

[cm8]

Agree with previous poster that said this is just aggressive behavior, nothing passive about it. You are giving her a public berating via email to the group.

Now whether she deserves it or not is another matter in itself. It is obvious that there is bad blood between you guys.

If you want to be direct with her you pick up the phone and call her about the scheduling.

Frankly, this breaks my cardinal rule of never putting "things" in writing because it can come back to haunt you.

If you are going to "have it out" with someone, my first choice is always face to face.

1) Gives you time to calm down.
2) Let's you find out "backstory" so you don't look like a fool to the group if it was a legit mistake.
3) Your word against mine is easier to skirt that emails which are set in stone.
4) You are now "on people's list" of being aggressive if you don't get your way. In other words you make yourself look bad in that you cannot handle the issues you have with mean lady in a more professional manner. You look unprofessional.

 

[lovetoscrap]

There was nothing passive-- definitely aggressive and maybe childish, but can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing.

A passive aggressive move would have been to show up anyway as if you were scheduled and then act like you didn't get the email and are just shocked that you aren't supposed to be there especially since you rearranged your schedule to do so - and making a big dramatic deal out of it to the others working and any supervisors.

Passive, because you don't call out or confront the scheduler specifically and personally but aggressive because you make sure that everyone knows that you are very put out by not being on the schedule.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Having been there, done that, learned my lesson....

Reply all messages should never be used when correcting behaviors. It will never go well as you have just experienced.

You were correcting her and you broadcasted it. I don't know if it meets the definition of PA, but it was inappropriate.

If you are worried about what others thought, best to just let them know personally after they ask you about it.

But you did commit an e-mail taboo.

 

[tlbwriter]

No, this was simply aggressive.

Passive-aggressive is when you do something that *looks* innocent or harmless to others. For example, if you had sent an email to everyone on the group saying "Oh, I'm so sorry I won't be there to help you today! I guess I wasn't needed!" When your real purpose was to notify everyone, between the lines, that you had not been scheduled. What you did was completely out in the open, and therefore not PA.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Looks like there are a good number of people who do not know what passive-aggressive is, by definition. And, it involves being passive.. simply getting ones way by hunkering back on one's haunches and doing NOTHING.

What the OP did was more than assertive.
That email was an aggressive and manipulative way for the the OP to try to take some control of the situation.

I am not saying that this other person doesn't deserve it!!!

But, yes somewhat aggressive and not quite appropriate.

Being assertive and acting appropriately would have been a face-to-face meeting, perhaps a long time ago, where the OP states very simply, "I am happy to volunteer for the second week of each month, and will plan to be there each time..... I have a full time job as well as other obligations, so, if any other volunteer work is needed, I will be happy to consider it, but I would need to know at least one week in advance."

PS: OP, I think I know just exactly what type of person is in this volunteer leadership position. Sounds just classic.

 

[Imzadi]

This time, however, I was a little ticked and sent an e-mail out to everyone on the mailing list This is WHY it IS passive aggressive. You involved parties who needn't be, knowing it would underhandedly force a certain type of response. in a very, very friendly tone asking her to, in the future, let me know before 10PM the night before if I wouldn't be needed on my monthly weekend, as we all have busy lives and I really have to rearrange my schedule to make this event every month.

Now, my friend says this is passive aggressive. I hold that it isn't. I said exactly what I meant Yes, what you said may have been direct, but the how you did this, involving others, to illicit a certain response, is what makes it passive aggressive. - I have a busy life and I have to rearrange my schedule to make this event every month and notice sooner than 10pm would be nice. I meant it to be a public comment so that she couldn't crawfish Here is where you admit WHY you sent it public, to manipulate her response. and tell the people who actually co-ordinate this event something different from the truth on why I wasn't there. (She did this once before last Spring, but sent the e-mail out in a timely manner, so it wasn't such a big deal to rearrange my life and talk to the co-ordinator.)

I was extraordinarily nice in tone in the e-mail, but very direct. It doesn't matter HOW you did it. In fact passive aggression often couches itself in being nice & pleasant. That's what makes it passive aggression. Hiding under niceness. The underhanded reason why you did it, addressed above, show WHY it is passive aggressive. However, when you are dealing with someone passive aggressive, herself, sometimes you have to fight back, by calling them out on it. So, I'm not necessarily bashing the passive aggression in this instance, you asked if it was. If asked, I have no problem saying "well, yes, I meant it to go to everyone. I wanted everyone to know that I hadn't ducked my responsibility." I plan to tack on to it "I'm sure XYV just forgot it was my weekend, but I'll be there next month, don't worry!" which is entirely possible, in case she did just forget, and it lets her lick her wounds a little.

So is it or isn't it a passive aggressive manuever? I agree that it could be a passive aggressive manuever, but in this case it isn't, Yes, it is. I didn't send it to everyone, oh oops. I sent it to everyone on purpose. Well, then, this may make it OVERTLY aggressive, then. The people who volunteer casually will see a friendly reminder email, people I volunteer with and the people who are in charge of the activity will know I didn't duck out intentionally. (I'll still be setting up and taking down, actually.) The person who excluded me will get a reminder not to forget I'm on the calender and will know that she has to own up to it and not blame me for not being there. So you sent the email public to get ALL this, that I've just bolded. THAT is very passive aggressive.

My comments are in red, above.

OP, you could have just sent the email to her and the FEW people who co-ordinate the event and need to be apprised of the situation. Sounds like you involved everyone, who didn't need to know so you could get kudos for showing up anyway and doing work when you weren't scheduled. That's also passive aggression because that's really about you, rather than your interaction with the person.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Again, NOTHING 'passive' which is the key word in the term passive-aggressive, about actively involving other members of this organization.

I know that, perhaps, it is just misunderstanding of the definition of passive-aggressive.

But, since this whole thread is about whether something qualifies as 'passive aggressive' or not... The whole conversation is meaningless unless we can agree on the definition of the term.

Passive-Aggressive would be manipulating the situation by doing NOTHING...
Example: the person does not want to mess with working anything but that one set weekend...
If changes are made ( whether they are necessary, or whether good notice is given, or not)
Said person simply does NOTHING... Does not show up when scheduled...
Instead of being reasonable and communicating and making good-faith effort....
The person actively controls the situation by sitting like an obstinate donkey, and doing 'nothing'.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

http://www.suite101.com/content/communication-styles-a12116

Communication Styles

Aggressive, Passive, Passive-Aggressive or Assertive Communication

Jan 21, 2007 Joni Rose

Do you know how your communication style is perceived? To progress in your career it is vital that you communicate in an assertive way.

It is important to understand how your communication style is interpreted by others to avoid miscommunication and misunderstandings. The goal is communicate with assertion and avoid an aggressive, passive-aggressive or passive style of communication.

Use the following checklist to see how you communicate over all or to evaluate a particular exchange you’ve had to see how you can improve on your communication style.

Aggressive Communication

__You choose and make decisions for others.

__You are brutally honest.

__You are direct and forceful.

__You are self enhancing and derogatory.

__You’ll participate in a win-lose situation only if you’ll win.

__You demand your own way.

__You feel righteous, superior, controlling – later possibly feeling guilt.

__Others feel humiliated, defensive, resentful and hurt around you.

__Others view you in the exchange as angry, vengeful, distrustful and fearful.

__The outcome is usually that your goal is achieved at the expense of others. Your rights are upheld but others are violated.

__Your underlying belief system is that you have to put others down to protect yourself.


Passive Communication

__You allow others to choose and make decisions for you.

__You are emotionally dishonest.

__You are indirect and self denying.

__You are inhibited.

__If you get your own way, it is by chance.

__You feel anxious, ignored, helpless, manipulated, angry at yourself and/or others.

__Others feel guilty or superior and frustrated with you.

__Others view you in the exchange as a pushover and that you don’t know what you want or how you stand on an issue.

__The outcome is that others achieve their goals at your expense. Your rights are violated.

__Your underlying belief is that you should never make someone uncomfortable or displeased except yourself.


Passive-Aggressive Communication

__You manipulate others to choose your way.

__You appear honest but underlying comments confuse.

__You tend towards indirectness with the air of being direct.

__You are self-enhancing but not straight forward about it.

__In win-lose situations you will make the opponent look bad or manipulate it so you win.

__If you don’t get your way you’ll make snide comments or pout and be the victim.

__You feel confused, unclear on how to feel, you’re angry but not sure why. Later you possibly feel guilty.

__Others feel confused, frustrated, not sure who you are or what you stand for or what to expect next.

__Others view you in the exchange as someone they need to protect themselves from and fear being manipulated and controlled.

__The outcome is that the goal is avoided or ignored as it cause such confusion or the outcome is the same as with an aggressive or passive style.

__Your underlying belief is that you need to fight to be heard and respected. If that means you need to manipulate, be passive or aggressive, so be it.


Assertive Communication

__You choose and make decisions for you.

__You are sensitive and caring with your honesty.

__You are direct.

__You are self-respecting, self expressive and straight forward.

__You convert win-lose situations to win-win ones.

__You are willing to compromise and negotiate.

__You feel confident, self-respecting, goal-oriented, valued. Later you may feel a sense of accomplishment.

__Others feel valued and respected.

__Others view you with respect, trust and understand where you stand.

__The outcome is determined by above-board negotiation. Your rights and others are respected.

__Your underlying belief is that you have a responsibility to protect your own rights. You respect others but not necessarily their behaviour.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

http://www.howcast.com/videos/430825-How-to-Leave-PassiveAggressive-Notes

How to Leave Passive-Aggressive Notes
by Rosemarie_Lennon

Master the art of sending someone a stinging missive -- while hiding behind a facade of goodwill -- with these helpful hints on how to leave passive-aggressive notes.

You Will Need
People to insult
Paper
Writing instrument

Step 1: Know what it is

Know what passive-aggressive behavior is: A sneaky way to say or do something mean without taking responsibility for it.


Step 2: Start out sweetly

Start the note out sweetly so your victim has no idea you’re setting them up for a verbal sucker punch.


Step 3: Pretend you're joking

Toss in your insult and then pretend it was a joke by writing “Just kidding!” at the end of your passive-aggressive note.


Step 4: Disguise it as a compliment

Try disguising your gibe as a compliment. For example: “I think it’s so brave of you not to buy into the whole ‘you have be thin’ thing.”


Step 5: Frame it as helpful advice

Consider framing your criticism as helpful advice in your passive-aggressive note: make your hurtful remarks, then end with something along the lines of “I’m only telling you this because I care about you.”


Step 6: Feign a mission of mercy

Get the most bang for your passive-aggressive buck by pretending you’re just passing along nasty stuff other people are saying. This is especially wicked because it makes the recipient think everyone is talking about them. End with: “Of course, I don’t think this. I just thought you should know what everyone else is saying.”


Fact
"Passive-aggressive personality disorder" was coined by psychiatrists during World War II. It referred to soldiers who technically followed orders, but managed to create problems nonetheless.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Here are some definitions I just quickly copied from some online dictionary's.
(PS: by definition, I do not see 'passive aggressive as a 'communication style' at all.)

pas·sive-ag·gres·sive
adjective
Definition:
describes a personality type or way of behaving that seeks to manipulate others indirectly and resist their demands rather than confronting or opposing directly.


ADJECTIVE:
Of, relating to, or having a personality disorder characterized by habitual passive resistance to demands for adequate performance in occupational or social situations, as by procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, and inefficiency.


Passive–aggressive behavior, a personality trait, is passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance to following through with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations. It is a personality trait marked by a pervasive pattern of negative attitudes and passive, usually disavowed resistance in interpersonal or occupational situations.
It can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.


Passive-aggressive:
Pertaining to behavior in which feelings of aggression are expressed in passive ways as, for example, by stubbornness, sullenness, procrastination, or intentional inefficiency.

Extra butter on mine please!!!

 

[Wishing on a star]

Here is something on communication styles.
Several places do list these three....
_____________________________________

Understanding Your Communication Style

There are three basic communication styles:
Aggressive
Passive
Assertive

Discovering which style best fits you can be done in a number of ways including personality tests such as the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator® (MBTI®) instrument, psychological assessments, and self-assessments.

 

[descovy]

If I can just add, I *used to* belong to a wonderful organization where I spent much on my energy in helping. BUT there were a handful of these "reply all" messages that were quite frankly, not for my eyes to see, and not my problem.

Sadly, it left me with less than honorable thoughts for either party, and I no longer am part of said organization.

I think a private email requesting advance notice would be 100% called for and appropriate. But to air it to all, just smells bad frankly. Not only does it dis the scheduler, but it makes you look not so nice, yourself...

Anyway, my hope for you is that this all blows over quickly, and is left as a lesson learned.

 

[Ning Ning]

OP, you've gotten enough responses to your question. I just wanted to comment on this: "so that she couldn't crawfish" ... as soon as I saw that, I had to look and, of course, I was right about where you are from! Not too many people talk like we do!!!

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Thanks all ya'll for your responses. While I am waiting for my clothes to dry (getting dressed, stuck a hand outside and realized it was no longer tropical and that all my warmer clothes were in the dirty pile, but I have a "dress nicer than usual" event with organization this afternoon. . .hmm. . .to the laundry! Thank goodness it's a "drop in" typ event and I didn't volunteer to do anything that involves showing up early!)

Once I'd calmed down, was transporting stuff from pillar to post, an older lady in the group told me not to worry - there has been a lot of non-scheduled time going on. i.e. for whatever reason, the weekend events have de-evolved into mostly people saying the Friday before that they'd show up. (Which I did NOT know!) She said she personally hates it as she winds up hosting some events by her lonesome and never has enough volunteers, and the she wishes we could go back to the old way.

I felt terrible. To be honest, I'm not looking to be besties with person I addressed directly, and I don't mind people thinking I'm a tad aggressive, as I'm not usually that way IRL, so if i just smile and am my usual chipper-so-much-it-gets-annoying self it should blow over.

I do have a bad tendency to overthink things - worked in a toxic environment for about 3 years where this was a survival technique everyone practiced, because you never knew who was out to get you, and not-overthinking meant you might well be the next target of the boss - and I've been fighting to get rid of it ever since, because it's horribly maladaptive. Anyway, off that horrendous topic, but that's probably a lot of why I react the way I do to some things.

So I'll apologize if necessary, hold my head up high and smile otherwise. I did find out that this means the resident head Mean Girl, who is someone else entirely, is a lot less likely to play passive-aggressive games with me.

And to be honest, in the city I live in right now, the population ration of Mean Girls is siginificantly higher than in any other place I've ever lived in. Every other woman seems to play those games. It's weird and strange, but there it is. I've just got to learn to keep my temper!

 

[Disney Doll]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If you ahve to apologize to the lady, then do so. Frankly, I am quite sure you are not the 1st person who has "passive-aggressived" her back...if she is as bad as you say she is,then I am sure she has treated others the same way...a little comeuppance is good once in a while.

A friend of mine owns a business and employs a lot of college kids during the summer. INvariably, early on in the summer season, he has to fire someone for something. The benefit is that whent he other college kids see that eh is not afraid to call them on the carpet and fire them if necessary, they straighten up and fly right.

If nothing else, your email put everyone else on notice not to mess with you.