Is this legal? - School question

[gillenkl]

at an IEP meeting today I asked how many special ed children were in my sons class (he is spec ed) - I simple wanted to know how many would be demanding the time of the spec ed teacher also in the room. My son has been in spec ed for 4 years and always I knew how many were in the class - not their names just how many. today they refused to tell me. I thought legally as a taxpayer I was allowed to know this - anyone know if this is legal or not?

 

[Michigan]

If he is in a special ed only class then they can't not tell you. If he is in a regular ed class with special ed services they don't have to tell you.

 

[MidgeD79]

Where do you live, how old is your son and is he at a new school?

 

[belle&beast]

If he is in a special ed only class then they can't not tell you. If he is in a regular ed class with special ed services they don't have to tell you.

I agree. If he is in a self contained classroom then they should be able to tell you the size of the class. However, if he is in an inclusion setting, I don't believe they are allowed to tell you. Some children in the class may only get help with one subject or another while others may have full time assistance. The important thing is that your child is receiving an appropriate amount of time in each subject as needed and that the amount of time is being met.

 

[cymomtx]

Does not matter what type of class he is in, state laws mandate class room size. In Texas elementary classrooms are not allowed to have more then 22 students with out TEA approval for more students, secondary classrooms I believe are 28 students. These numbers include special ed students. (my classroom student:teacher ratios may be off) I know in my daughters ARD we just discussed theses numbers on Thursday!

There should be similar laws in every state.

 

[ilovejack02]

at an IEP meeting today I asked how many special ed children were in my sons class (he is spec ed) - I simple wanted to know how many would be demanding the time of the spec ed teacher also in the room. My son has been in spec ed for 4 years and always I knew how many were in the class - not their names just how many. today they refused to tell me. I thought legally as a taxpayer I was allowed to know this - anyone know if this is legal or not?

I have no idea if it is legal or not, cant imagine what the big deal is. I can assure you though if I really wanted to know I would just go to school and count for myself.

 

[disneyelaine]

Don't know if it is legal, but every year I always ask how many kids in the classroom are on IEP's and I have always been answered. It usually is about 3 or 4, out of a classroom of approx 24. Maybe ask the teacher casually sometime. Could the presense of upper admin. in the meeting cause someone to hesitate. I find it easier to get candid answers dealing with teachers & even admin. one on one, not in a formal meeting.

 

[HopperFan]

My interpretation is that he is in a regular classroom which has special education students included, and which includes a regular ed and special ed teacher........ She asked how many special education students are in the class.........say 4 out of 22 or 8 out of 22. Her concern is how much time the special education teacher has to assist her child. Counting would not be possible, because you don't know who is special education, and you can't - legally. I would think since there is a special education teacher assigned to the class, that you could be told how many students your son's special education teacher is assisting. I don't think that is unethical on their part. I know parents here have found out that information (as the parent of one of the special education students, it would be off limits to the regular ed parents). Different States have different rules. I am sure they have a rule on the maximum number of students this teacher can work with. A concern might be if they don't want to tell her how many students her child shares with, then maybe they are not within their state guidelines. I would also ask the teacher in a more relaxed situation, honest question, how many kids do you asssist ?

 

[Earstou]

Don't know if it is legal, but every year I always ask how many kids in the classroom are on IEP's and I have always been answered. QUOTE]
Gifted students can have IEPs, for giftedness. Also, my son had an IEP when he was being pulled for speech. But those two things really don't have much impact on the other students. So just knowing how many IEPs may not be helpful.

 

[dj2]

my gifted dd had an iep for speech, too. i think they are hesitant to talk about the kids for liability issues, but you got some good advice here. ask the inclusion teacher in an informal setting how many students are in her workload (not how many kids have needs) phrase the question to be about her, not the kids. i'll be so surprised if she won't answer it when put that way. you're not being nosy about other's issues, you're just making sure your child gets adequate resources.

 

[dj2]

i asked a teacher (who works in a in a self-container classroom) today if you were within your rights to ask about the teacher's workload, and she said absolutely. you can't ask about other students disabilities, but you have the right to know the teacher's workload. she said to remind you that at every iep meeting you are supposed to be given a copy of your rights.

 

[cymomtx]

Because of FERPA they should not answer how many special ed students there are. I dont't believe there are limits on how many special ed students one teacher can have on her roll per say. In my school district, a resource class will normally have about 6 - 10 students. In a co-teach class they typically will have about 6 - 8 students. In an ICS class there may be 4-8 students and in a MODS only class there could be any number of students on the roll.

 

[HopperFan]

I've lived in two states and both had limits on the number of special education students a teacher has within a classroom. Varies depending on classifications and type of class. Going over those numbers would require additional aides or teachers.

http://ericec.org/faq/classize.html - may have some info to help you

 

[agnes!]

Because of FERPA they should not answer how many special ed students there are. I dont't believe there are limits on how many special ed students one teacher can have on her roll per say. In my school district, a resource class will normally have about 6 - 10 students. In a co-teach class they typically will have about 6 - 8 students. In an ICS class there may be 4-8 students and in a MODS only class there could be any number of students on the roll.

I understand about privacy issues, but why doesn't a parent have the right to know how many special needs/ed. students there are in a certain class? Why does that have to be a secret? Aren't parents allowed to know if school systems are following any possible regulations for staffing ratios, if the classroom teacher has a permitted workload?

agnes!

 

[pbnjrockette]

I taught a self-contained classroom for 15 years. Each state is different and has different rules and regs concerning special ed. But there should be NO reason why you can't know how many students are in the class---just for confidentiality you can't know any information about other students. (e.g. I was able to have 8 students in my class, with an aide I could have 11.)

You should have received a booklet telling you all parents' rights when your child was classified. Request a copy.

 

[susieq76]

In NY they provide this ratio info ON The IEP

 

[SueM in MN]

This site may be helpful:
www.pacer.org

PACER stands for Parent Advocacy Coalition for Educational Rights and it is a National Center based in Minnesota. It has information about and links to advocacy resources in other states.

 

[Becky2005]

Hmmm...I don't know. I know my son has an aide in the classroom and it was a 1:2 ratio but when I was talking to the teacher she said the aide was there also for at least a 3rd person. I just casually mentioned that I know she is there to help him and another. I already knew who the 2nd one was, it just happens to be one of DS friends.

Now I have no idea who the 3rd child is but I have a hunch since I know his mom too and know he has an IEP (it seems most of my son's friends have similar issues and we did only find out about one because we happened to see them at summer school, so then we knew. Otherwise we wouldn't have!)

However, as other people said just knowing who has an IEP may not really answer your question because I know when my DS-9 was in K & 1st he had an IEP but it was only for speech. That doesn't really affect the ratio in any way as far as I'm concerned since speech is a pull-out. It didn't affect the teacher/student ratio more than what a regular class ratio is.

It's possible some law changed in your area about it.

 

[roseprincess]

If he is in a special ed only class then they can't not tell you. If he is in a regular ed class with special ed services they don't have to tell you.

This seems to be the case in my school, also. Both my kids are mainstreamed in a regular classroom setting and they receive special -ed services as well.
My ds hasn't been needing a teacher's aide. My dd still has a teacher's aide in the classroom. I don't bother asking my dd's special -ed teacher or her regular classroom teacher if there is another spec. ed child needing the teacher's aide in dd's classroom. I know the school is very private on this issue. Just as long that my kids get their services, I'm fine.

 

[roseprincess]

at an IEP meeting today I asked how many special ed children were in my sons class (he is spec ed) - I simple wanted to know how many would be demanding the time of the spec ed teacher also in the room. My son has been in spec ed for 4 years and always I knew how many were in the class - not their names just how many. today they refused to tell me. I thought legally as a taxpayer I was allowed to know this - anyone know if this is legal or not?

If your ds is mainstreamed in a regular classroom, you can maybe volunteer as a room helper in your ds's class once in a while, so you can observe yourself how many kids might be special-ed and how much time the teacher's aide helps out the other kids? Just a suggestion Seems like the schools and school districts want to keep any info private.

I volunteer once in a while in my kids' classrooms as a room mom helper for class parties,etc. This is a way to "meet" the kids in the classroom and my dd and ds love when they see me in their classrooms, makes them feel special!