Is this how high school works?

[BrerMom]

...Unfortunately, under our current system, a lot of slackers go on to the next grade just because they'll still be slackers if they repeat, and most have already repeated one grade and will be "too old" to be in middle school. In Maine, you age out of public school at 20, so if you're 15 in 8th grade, you barely have enough time to finish high school before aging out.

Interesting. I haven't heard "aging out" as a reason for social promotion, so I wonder if ours is 21. I'm pretty sure it's 26 for special ed.

 

[4greatboys]

Some schools also offer credit recovery. It's a special class taken during the school day. I'm not sure how exactly how the class works. I do know you can get in pretty much anytime during the semester. My graduating son almost needed it for math. He really struggles with it as did I in school so sadly I'm not much of a help to him.

 

[McDISer]

In Wisconsin, if you receive an F for a semester you have to repeat just that semester. They do not average out 2 semesters for a passing grade.

Let's say they flunked 1 semester of English. But passed the 2nd semester of English. Their sophmore year, they had to take Freshman and Sophmore English the first semester. My kids told me by the time kids were Juniors, they were repeating, Freshman, Sophmore, and Junior English because they could not pass. So they were basically taking 3 hours of English.

In Wisconsin you have to be 18 to quit school. My dd had a girl quit school the Tuesday before Sunday's graduation. She was not passing and didn't have enough credits to graduate. I guess she finally turned 18 on Tuesday and walked into the principals office and turned in her locker lock and said, she quit.

L

 

[Kathi OD]

A final grade is usually the average of all the year's work. So an F first semester and a C second, averages to a D, which is passing.

As for the Biology class, many schools have summer sessions. Especially in large districts, where transportation might be a problem, online classes are becoming more and more common. In some states Virtual High Schools are being offered to students who, for a variety of reasons, can't get to "real" school.

Also, in many high schools, failing one subject for the year is not enough to keep you from being promoted to the next grade. Usually there is a set number of credits required by the state (the district might require more) and a distribution of those credits. In most cases, if a student has a class every period, they will end up with more credits than they need. Soooo....they can be promoted and make up the class they did poorly in somewhere else down the road.

A lot of "how high school works" will be determined by the state regulations and the local school district's policies.

That said, I were DD's friend's parent, she would pretty much be grounded for awhile.

 

[LisaR]

Here, all highschool summer school is online. And if she got a C the first semester and an F (if a high F) the second, it could average out to a D, which would make her pass the class.

She might be wrong about moving on to 10th grade, too. She could be some of the way there, or most of the way there and still consider herself a sophomore, though she wouldn't officially be until mid year or later.

Now that you said that, I remember her saying something like this. I think the way she worded it was that she would go into the 10th grade but some of her classes would be from the 9th grade. Once she passed those, she would officially be a 10th grader. It confused me at the time. I don't remember it working this way when I was in high school.

This conversation took place a week or so ago. My DD said that today she told her she is taking multiple online classes this summer so apparently she has failed something besides Biology.

She really seems to be slipping through the cracks. Nice girl. I feel sorry for her because her self esteem is very low. She seems to have many people in her life that tell her she is a failure.

 

[MrsPete]

DD has a friend that was in 9th grade this year (she was also in 9th grade last year ). She was very excited because she passed this year and will move up to 10th grade.

For the first semester of Algebra, she got an F. For the second semester, she got a C. I understand a C is passing but she got an F during the first semester. Is that still considered passing? Isn't it safe to say she didn't really comprehend much?

She flunked Biology. She was doing so poorly in the class that she just stopped going because the teacher told her she wouldn't be able to pass. She thought she was going to have to go to summer school. Instead, she is taking an online Biology class. My question to her was what would happen if she flunked that class? Would she still move on to 10th grade? She said she would. She would just have to retake it again.

My DD isn't in high school yet. Is this really how it works? Is this kid really learning anything?

Several issues:

First, the averaging of the grade. The girl earned an F first semester and a C second semester -- is there a final exam in there too? They average together; if her end-of-the-year grade is a 70+, she passes. So if that F was a 68, it wouldn't be too hard for her to bring it up to passing; on the other hand, if it was a 38, there's little hope. It could be that she was slow to pick up on the fact that she needed to do her homework, but then once she started doing it, she improved. It could be that she failed to turn in a project first semester, which brought her grade down. It could be that she started attending an after-school math tutoring session, which helped her. It could be that she did an extra credit project second semester, which brought her grade up. With this limited information, it's tough to make any judgement calls about the class and what she might've /might not've learned.

Biology: It sounds like she is probably doing remediation to "make up" what she didn't learn the first go-around in Biology. When she finishes the remedial lessons, she'll get to take the state final exam again and see if she can get a passing grade. This is a poor substitute for doing the work well the first time, but once the kid's failed the class, the good options no longer exist.

Can the student pass her grade if she hasn't passed all her classes? It depends. In my county/state a student takes 8 classes per year; for a 9th grader to be passed on to a 10th grade homeroom, he or she must pass 6 of those classes -- and one of them must be English. So a student could fail Biology and still move on to a 10th grade homeroom. The student would register for 10th grade English, math, etc. -- but would sit through Biology a second time. On the other hand, a student who passed only PE and Biology would return to a 9th grade homeroom; that student would repeat 9th grade English, history, and math -- but could progress on to Chemistry (or whatever follows Biology).

In high school, one's "grade level" doesn't matter so much (except socially) as how many credits have been earned. Four years doesn't = a diploma; X number of credits = a diploma. Most students earn those credits in four years; a few take five years to do it.

Few students fail classes in high school, but the few who do fail tend to do badly in multiple classes. It's rare for a kid to fail one class in his entire high school career.

 

[Nancy]

In my kids school, you can fail classes and still be considered going onto the next grade.

Maybe they pass the required classes but fail a class they took towards the credits, but it isn't a real "must pass class" to get their diploma. They could fail that class and still go onto the next grade.

The courses are actually built so that you need a certain number of credits which includes certain required classes, the rest are basically choose what you want to take. My daughter has been in a math class that has had all grades in it. She was a junior, taking a class to get in her math requirements. It had 9th graders who were taking an excellerated math class, sophomores in honors class (which was actually the grade level it was) and then a few 11th and 12th graders just making sure they had their criedit hours and requiredments in.

Then don't even get started on the half year courses and extra labs...highschool sure is different then when I was in school.

 

[MrsPete]

Here too!! They feel the sigma of being held back would hurt their self esteem. Bull crap IMO!!

Six of my seniors will not be graduating this year because they failed to meet various standards. I'm sympathetic to their situation, but in each case the student has failed to complete work in a timely, competent manner. Since in each case the parents were notified of problems early on, and since in each case extra help was offered and the students still didn't "step up to the plate", the administration is not budging.

 

[JR6ooo4]

Our high school rating was with credits earned. A certain amount for each grade advancement. They even changed it from 21 credits total to graduate to 24 my sophmore year!! If you did not pass enough classes to earn enough credits you stayed in the same grade. My friends brother was a freshman 4 times!!!! 5 different schools!!! Hehehehehehehe

Mikeeee

 

[MrsPete]

In my kids school, you can fail classes and still be considered going onto the next grade.

Sometimes you have to consider the source: I've had kids tell me, "I'm really a Sophomore, but guidance made a mistake and put me in a Freshman homeroom." No, dear, you didn't pass freshman English; you may be here for your second year, but you really and truly ARE a freshman.

The courses are actually built so that you need a certain number of credits which includes certain required classes, the rest are basically choose what you want to take. My daughter has been in a math class that has had all grades in it. She was a junior, taking a class to get in her math requirements. It had 9th graders who were taking an excellerated math class, sophomores in honors class (which was actually the grade level it was) and then a few 11th and 12th graders just making sure they had their criedit hours and requiredments in.

All students don't reach the math class at the same time. A few students take Algebra 1 in middle school -- they get to take Geometry as freshmen, and they have enough years left to reach very high level math. The not-brilliant, but still very good math students take Algebra 1 as freshmen, then they take Geometry as sophomores. The non-math-brained crowd takes Algebra 1, part 1 freshman year . . . then Algebra 1, part 2 sophomore year . . . and they finally make it to Geometry in their Junior year. This isn't so much a matter of "taking what you want to take" as taking what's appropriate for your math ability level and your stage of readiness.

 

[MrsPete]

That said, I were DD's friend's parent, she would pretty much be grounded for awhile.

Sadly, all families don't work that way. I've had plenty of kids (and parents) tell me over the years that schoolwork just isn't a priority for their families. Loads of my seniors put their part-time jobs before school; they'll skip school to work an extra shift, or they'll skip school to work because the boss says he'll fire them if they don't, or they work 'til midnight, then are too tired to do well in school. I've had kids tell me that they couldn't do their homework because they have family visiting and their parents say that they owe it to their visitors to spend time with them. I've had kids stay out the whole week of the county fair because that's a big social event for their families. It's sad, sad, sad.

In some families a D is considered just as good as an A -- passing is passing; why should it matter by how much? In some families it's just expected that kids are going to fail some classes; for example, I've had parents tell their kids in front of me, "I never understood _____ either -- I expected you to fail it." These are the same families who don't seem to comprehend how grades are averaged; they don't grasp why one grade of 100 doesn't "wipe out" a semester of 50s. They don't seem to understand that attendance is necessary.

These families seem to think that people who get good grades are "lucky" or are born with a gene that they don't have. They fail to comprehend that taking notes in class, reading your assignments at home, and studying before a test = good grades! Instead, they think it's a trick of fate that keeps their grades low while other kids skate by effortlessly with straight As. On occasion, these kids make a good grade on something; they tend to think that was a lucky break or that that particular test was just really easy.

Ponder this too: All kids don't have the goal of graduating from high school -- oh, the great majority do, but a few are there for other reasons: In some cases the court has ordered them to attend school. Not to PASS CLASSES, mind you, just to attend school. If they don't attend, they go to juvenile hall. Others are there because they get free breakfast/lunch and their parents get state money as long as they're students. Same thing about passing classes vs. attending. Some kids are there to sell drugs. Again, these kids don't make up a large number, but they do exist and they take up a great deal of the administrator's time. Typically these kids stay in school until they screw up in some way and they're finally kicked out -- and they seem to expect that their high school careers will end in this way; they're just biding their time until it happens.

A few others -- and the girl you're describing could fall into this category -- are sort of the same: just drifting through, not doing much, not expecting much, just taking the path of least resistance . . . but they aren't troublemakers, just not-too-bright, fall-through-the-cracks types. This tends to be a girl thing. They're hanging around waiting to meet a boy to marry, or waiting to see how long it'll be 'til they get pregnant. Who really cares if you pass Biology or not? Even if you make it past that hurdle, Chemistry's bound to trip you up. If not Chemistry, then English. You could never, ever manage to pass all those classes for graduation anyway. Other people can do it, but you can't. Just don't bother. You'll never be anything anyway, but you're bound to meet a nice boy in school, and he'll take care of you as well as he can.

By the time I get them as seniors, these concepts are deeply engrained and essentially impossible to change. It makes me want to scream.

 

[MrsPete]

I'm not sure how it works in high school in our district, but I can say how it works in middle school. You can get all F's in your core classes, but as long as you pass the state standardized testing you will be moved on to high school. Doesn't make sense to me, but that's how it is.

In our high school, a person who flunked the class but passed the state exam (in reality, this would probably be a smart kid who just didn't do homework and write his papers), would be allowed a chance to remediate. Depending upon how badly he failed the class, he'd be assigned a certain amount of work to do after school ON HIS OWN TIME to "make up" for the work he didn't do in class. IF he finishes the work, he'd be given a D for the class. If he doesn't do the make-up, guidance pops him right back into the class next semester, and he starts over from square one.

The theory is that if the kid can pass the exit exam, he must know the material.

Honestly, I could argue that one both ways. On the one hand, forcing him to sit through the class again is not particularly good for anyone. He is resentful and is likely to become a disicipline problem, which takes away from the class for other students. We already have a teacher shortage in our area, and overcrowded classes are a problem -- putting him back into the class makes this worse. On the other hand, sending him on reinforces the idea that doing half the work is acceptable; he isn't likely to go to the next level and say, "Wow, I've learned my lesson. I"ll be beefing up my study habits now so that I won't fall into that trap again!" No, once he's failed the class, there's no good choice.

The RIGHT THING is for the teacher to notify the parents and guidance as soon as a problem is evident . . . then the parents enforce study hours, the teacher provides extra help if necessary, and the student PASSES, avoiding the whole what-to-do-with-a-failed-class issue. Unfortunately, more often than not, this idealistic save-the-student concept doesn't happen.

 

[TomLovesBecky]

Here they make you repeat a grade if you fail anything, dh's brother failed last year (we call it his first senior year, ha ha) and repeated it this year, he just graduated at the end of May. it wasn't so bad for him because he turned 19 exactly one week before graduating but after classes were over so he was still only 18 all through high school, not older than the other kids. Also he had other reasons why he failed the first time, he lost both of his parents within 2 years of each other and that had an impact on his schoolwork obviously.

 

[MM27]

when I was in high school (and they still do this now) everything was based on credits. You needed x amount of credits to be considered a sophomore, junior or senior. You didn't repeat the entire grade, but rather had to take the class(es) you failed in either summer school or the following year. With parental approval they would allow you to take a class during your lunch period so that you could catch up.

 

[Talking Hands]

Ok, here grade level is based on which English they are taking. So if she passed 9th grade English she would be considered a 10th grader. It doesn't mean she would graduate on time though. She will have to have the necessary credits and at least a 2.0 GPA to graduate plus 70 hours of volunteer work and computer literacy.
We have what we call super seniors. They didn't graduate with their class because they didn't have the credits needed or the GPA. They have to come back over the summer to take the classes needed and some will even have to come back in the fall for an extra year. BTW for the extra year they cannot just come for the needed class but must come on a fulltime basis.

 

[johnsontrio]

Michigan has new standards for graduation that begin with this year's freshmen. 4 years of math is now required. There was a recent article in the Detroit Free Press discussing issues regarding this. It seems that up to 30% of freshmen have not passed Algebra I and must retake it in summer school. I have never heard anyone mention online summer school so I don't think it is an option here.

The article discussed how some experts are predicting that drop out rates will rise due to the students becoming discouraged about ever getting through 4 years of math. Our local school district has changed the order of classes so that the student take Geometry, then Algebra I and II in that order.

My DDs school evidently makes the girls retake courses they have failed, which is anything below 70%. One of the girls I know has to retake Spanish I next year. Her school also puts the girls into a lower level math class if they have struggled this year. They tell us they turn up the heat on the girls each year and they don't want them to drown.

 

[Kathi OD]

Sadly, all families don't work that way. I've had plenty of kids (and parents) tell me over the years that schoolwork just isn't a priority for their families. Loads of my seniors put their part-time jobs before school; they'll skip school to work an extra shift, or they'll skip school to work because the boss says he'll fire them if they don't, or they work 'til midnight, then are too tired to do well in school. I've had kids tell me that they couldn't do their homework because they have family visiting and their parents say that they owe it to their visitors to spend time with them. I've had kids stay out the whole week of the county fair because that's a big social event for their families. It's sad, sad, sad.

In some families a D is considered just as good as an A -- passing is passing; why should it matter by how much? In some families it's just expected that kids are going to fail some classes; for example, I've had parents tell their kids in front of me, "I never understood _____ either -- I expected you to fail it." These are the same families who don't seem to comprehend how grades are averaged; they don't grasp why one grade of 100 doesn't "wipe out" a semester of 50s. They don't seem to understand that attendance is necessary.

These families seem to think that people who get good grades are "lucky" or are born with a gene that they don't have. They fail to comprehend that taking notes in class, reading your assignments at home, and studying before a test = good grades! Instead, they think it's a trick of fate that keeps their grades low while other kids skate by effortlessly with straight As. On occasion, these kids make a good grade on something; they tend to think that was a lucky break or that that particular test was just really easy.

Ponder this too: All kids don't have the goal of graduating from high school -- oh, the great majority do, but a few are there for other reasons: In some cases the court has ordered them to attend school. Not to PASS CLASSES, mind you, just to attend school. If they don't attend, they go to juvenile hall. Others are there because they get free breakfast/lunch and their parents get state money as long as they're students. Same thing about passing classes vs. attending. Some kids are there to sell drugs. Again, these kids don't make up a large number, but they do exist and they take up a great deal of the administrator's time. Typically these kids stay in school until they screw up in some way and they're finally kicked out -- and they seem to expect that their high school careers will end in this way; they're just biding their time until it happens.

A few others -- and the girl you're describing could fall into this category -- are sort of the same: just drifting through, not doing much, not expecting much, just taking the path of least resistance . . . but they aren't troublemakers, just not-too-bright, fall-through-the-cracks types. This tends to be a girl thing. They're hanging around waiting to meet a boy to marry, or waiting to see how long it'll be 'til they get pregnant. Who really cares if you pass Biology or not? Even if you make it past that hurdle, Chemistry's bound to trip you up. If not Chemistry, then English. You could never, ever manage to pass all those classes for graduation anyway. Other people can do it, but you can't. Just don't bother. You'll never be anything anyway, but you're bound to meet a nice boy in school, and he'll take care of you as well as he can.

By the time I get them as seniors, these concepts are deeply engrained and essentially impossible to change. It makes me want to scream.

I'm all too aware that many families don't place much value on education. I am also a teacher; in a county youth detention center. Sadly, many of my students really have the potential to be extremely successful, but the family dynamics are such that they receive no encouragement to do well.

My comment was based solely on what would happen in my house, to my child.

 

[dimimi]

For the first semester of Algebra, she got an F. For the second semester, she got a C. I understand a C is passing but she got an F during the first semester. Is that still considered passing? Isn't it safe to say she didn't really comprehend much?

She flunked Biology. She was doing so poorly in the class that she just stopped going because the teacher told her she wouldn't be able to pass. She thought she was going to have to go to summer school. Instead, she is taking an online Biology class. My question to her was what would happen if she flunked that class? Would she still move on to 10th grade? She said she would. She would just have to retake it again.


For the Algebra class, yes, she would pass. Did she learn alot, she probably did ok since she had a C the second semester. She probably wasn't doing the work. In our system you wouldn't fail for the year, you would fail the specific class. You could take it online. In our school this girl would probably be in an alternative program.

 

[Amlee]

Here you have to have so many credit to move up. I'm not sure of the number of credits required now. As they have increased the numbers over the years. But when I was in high school (almost 15 years ago), you had to have 22 credit to graduate. You had from 9th - 12th to get those 22 credits. So you had to take 4 required classes a year and pass those classes, you then got 3 elective classes. If you were smart your 3 elective would back you up, in case you didn't pass one of the required. They could also be used to retake a failed required class.

 

[Linzybrooke]

Sadly, all families don't work that way. I've had plenty of kids (and parents) tell me over the years that schoolwork just isn't a priority for their families. Loads of my seniors put their part-time jobs before school; they'll skip school to work an extra shift, or they'll skip school to work because the boss says he'll fire them if they don't, or they work 'til midnight, then are too tired to do well in school. I've had kids tell me that they couldn't do their homework because they have family visiting and their parents say that they owe it to their visitors to spend time with them. I've had kids stay out the whole week of the county fair because that's a big social event for their families. It's sad, sad, sad.

This is my biggest problem teaching High School. I teach an elective, so many of my students expect to walk in the door and get an A, but by doing zero work. They come to class tired because they worked right after school and didn't get off until midnight, then did work for their core classes, etc. Problem is, they still have to pass my class to graduate. I know that when DH and I have children there will be very strict rules about working outside of school, and that our children will realize that their education is their job and priority. If they can handle a job and keep up their grades then thats great, but if not then they won't be working.

Mrs.Pete, I just want to share with you how much I enjoy reading your posts. This was my first year teaching and I have gained some valuable insights from your posts.