Is this a really bad idea?

[mjc2003]

We are in ROFR and have been since 2/23. This means we probably won't get an answer until 3/21 at the earliest, b/c that's a Monday. We wanted to get in before the 3/20 deadline, not so much b/c of the lost benefits but b/c of the whole "what may be next" idea.

If I wasn't buying at BCV, I wouldn't worry about it. However, we got a great contract, 200 points with 200 banked from 2010. April UY. They were asking 80, but we bid $84 just to get it above the $82/$83 range where they've been executing ROFR. However, with the banked points I'm worried we didn't bid high enough; I have a sinking feeling we're not getting through. This may be paranoia since some have gotten through for equal or less....but....

Question is, is it a terrible idea to make another offer the week before, say on 3/17, and get it into ROFR by the 3/20 date, and then cancel if this one goes through since I should know within 10 days? I don't want to screw the seller, but we will buy if the 1st deal falls through, and I feel like any contract still sitting that week is probably not going to move before 3/20 anyway.
I feel like this is bad form. But, we want to get a contract before 3/20. What to do???

 

[DVCconvert]

That's a sticky wicket!

I guess first I'd say I think your chances of passing ROFR is quite good.

Personally, I don't *think* I'd start the other process unless I was willing to actually buy the contract.

Consider the worse likely case here - DVC rofr's your contract and the clock passes by 3/20. You could still buy more points, just not subject to using them on the none dvc stuff.

HTH

 

[khmiller]

I am fairly sure that the key is submitted for ROFR by 3/20 so I think you are ok.

 

[sleepydog25]

Put yourself in a potential seller's shoes: would you want someone knowingly making a bid on your contract who would drop it if the first bid did come through? How would you feel should you be selling, and you thought you had a buyer only to find out you didn't after the 3/20 date when the price of resales may very likely go down? I'm not big on being a moral policeman, but in this instance, it just doesn't seem the ethical thing to do. Were it me, I'd stand pat and hope that I passed ROFR.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

First, take a deep breath. I'd give very excellent odds that you will pass ROFR. I do not believe that banked points mean a thing to Disney in their consideration for taking back a contract. Second, it is very inappropriate to tie up a contract when you have no intention of purchasing it if your other one goes thru.

 

[mjc2003]

Put yourself in a potential seller's shoes: would you want someone knowingly making a bid on your contract who would drop it if the first bid did come through? How would you feel should you be selling, and you thought you had a buyer only to find out you didn't after the 3/20 date when the price of resales may very likely go down? I'm not big on being a moral policeman, but in this instance, it just doesn't seem the ethical thing to do. Were it me, I'd stand pat and hope that I passed ROFR.

I agree with all this. However, if we don't get a resale contract before 3/20 we are not buying direct, and probably won't buy resale; so this is all or nothing for us. As for the seller, I won't be leaving anybody hanging for more than the alloted 10 days, and, for many reasons, people cancel during these 10 days. I was told people find new and better contracts during the 10 day window and back out; is this different? I wouldn't be doing anything that I'm not entitled, as a buyer, to do.

That said, I agree that it's not ideal. However, I am talking about an offer on 3/17 or 3/18, a day or two before the deadline. If there are 20 available BCV contracts, realistically most of them are going to sit through the deadline. Most people are making their moves now, not at the last minute.
Combine this with the fact that I do think there is a viable chance my contract won't make it through ROFR. It offers 400 points immediately to DVD, and they want points to sell.

My biggest holdup is fairness to the seller. However, like I said, people have 10 days to back out for any reason. We almost backed out from this one to make an offer on another contract, and again, I was told this happens all the time.
Thanks for the feedback. I think my conscience won't allow me to do this...but I am just trying to sort through my possibilities.

 

[mjc2003]

First, take a deep breath. I'd give very excellent odds that you will pass ROFR. I do not believe that banked points mean a thing to Disney in their consideration for taking back a contract. Second, it is very inappropriate to tie up a contract when you have no intention of purchasing it if your other one goes thru.

Banked points do play a role; they have a limited number of points at BCV, and are actively seeking points to sell. Until recently they had a waitlist. It has been explained to me that they do factor in banked points. For this reason, it's more than reasonable to figure that my contract might not get through ROFR.

As for it being "inappropriate", is it any more inappropriate then those who back out of contracts within 10 days b/c they find a better deal?

I just read on another thread about a buyer who made an offer and the seller backed out b/c they were going through a divorce and couldn't agree on who should pay for the money they were going to lose. Is that appropriate?

In these transactions people are given a window to walk away, for any reason. I would be acting on this in my 10 day window.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I agree with all this. However, if we don't get a resale contract before 3/20 we are not buying direct, and probably won't buy resale; so this is all or nothing for us. As for the seller, I won't be leaving anybody hanging for more than the alloted 10 days, and, for many reasons, people cancel during these 10 days. I was told people find new and better contracts during the 10 day window and back out; is this different? I wouldn't be doing anything that I'm not entitled, as a buyer, to do.

That said, I agree that it's not ideal. However, I am talking about an offer on 3/17 or 3/18, a day or two before the deadline. If there are 20 available BCV contracts, realistically most of them are going to sit through the deadline. Most people are making their moves now, not at the last minute.
Combine this with the fact that I do think there is a viable chance my contract won't make it through ROFR. It offers 400 points immediately to DVD, and they want points to sell.

My biggest holdup is fairness to the seller. However, like I said, people have 10 days to back out for any reason. We almost backed out from this one to make an offer on another contract, and again, I was told this happens all the time.
Thanks for the feedback. I think my conscience won't allow me to do this...but I am just trying to sort through my possibilities.

People are deciding to buy all the time - even a day or two before the deadline. Perhaps you select the contract that someone else would have who has every intention of purchasing. Now you've tied up a contract until you are positive you don't need it and it's past the deadline. Sales options dry up for awhile and/or prices go down. There's really no justification that makes it fair to the seller and you are not helping them out - only yourself.

This deadline is already difficult for people both selling and buying and I would hope that nobody makes it worse for either party. I know why you want so strongly to justify this, and sorry for being so frank, but it is wrong. There also is a difference between your backing away in 10 days as opposed to other's. You are doing so at a particular deadline that changes those points and you also already know you won't buy it if your other contracts passes. At least those who find another more appealing contract had the intention of purchasing when they signed.

And having watched and purchased resale for 2+ years now I have seen no sign that banked points play into the ROFR. That is important to resale buyers but my observation or impression (since I haven't done a formal study) is that Disney does not place importance at all on stripped, banked etc.

 

[DVCconvert]

mjc2003 worte:

..... if we don't get a resale contract before 3/20 we are not buying direct, and probably won't buy resale.....

So would owning more points, post 3/20 via resale be of value to you?
If your primary use is for DVC you might get an even better deal.

Also - a really quick look at the ROFR thread yielded these:

2010 (passed in 02/10
220 points BCV, 220 pts banked from '08, all '09 + '10.....passed at $ 85

2011
50 points- 38 '10 banked (76%) passed at $86
150 points - 47 banked '10 (31%), all '11 + '12 passed at $84

Given that ROFR executions have dropped from 2010 to 2011, and that 50 pt contracts are 'desireable'....I still think you're much more likely to pass than to be rofr'd.

 

[mjc2003]

And having watched and purchased resale for 2+ years now I have seen no sign that banked points play into the ROFR. That is important to resale buyers but my observation or impression (since I haven't done a formal study) is that Disney does not place importance at all on stripped, banked etc.

I have been told that banked points are calculated into the formula that values the contracts when determining ROFR. Case in point, a recent BCV contract with no points until 2012 went through for $77; a contract with banked points and current points did not make it through at $82.

I appreciate your perspective. I will decide what to do when the time comes. Maybe DVD will solve my problem for me, and give me an answer before 30 days and give me enough time to move on another contract. I would contend that, while people are buying all the time, most people who want in before the 3/20 deadline won't wait for the last minute. Most people on the sideline on 3/19 will be waiting for prices to drop after 3/20.

 

[mjc2003]

mjc2003 worte:


So would owning more points, post 3/20 via resale be of value to you?
If your primary use is for DVC you might get an even better deal.

Also - a really quick look at the ROFR thread yielded these:

2010 (passed in 02/10
220 points BCV, 220 pts banked from '08, all '09 + '10.....passed at $ 85

2011
50 points- 38 '10 banked (76%) passed at $86
150 points - 47 banked '10 (31%), all '11 + '12 passed at $84

Given that ROFR executions have dropped from 2010 to 2011, and that 50 pt contracts are 'desireable'....I still think you're much more likely to pass than to be rofr'd.

I hope you are right! With regards to the first point, my wife and I have decided that we would revisit this, but won't be buying direct, and are both concerned about future changes to DVC resale contracts after 3/20, so at the very least we would be waiting to see how it plays out.

 

[KGD]

We took the DVC tour in January, but then came home and decided to buy resale and just passed ROFR.

During the tour (and on subsequent phone calls after returning home) our guide told us that "Disney is buying back everything it can at BCV". He wouldn't (couldn't) tell me why, but indicated that "maybe" they were going to be next in line for the contract extension.

Nevertheless, my point is that I have only seen one contract (on these boards) be ROFR'd by Disney since the beginning of the year. It doesn't seem like they are "buying back everything". Maybe it was just his way of steering me from buying resale as I mentioned it as a possibility. He made mention of some other things that haven't happened either.

It seems that your contract will go through seeing what else has been approved. We found out in 23 days that we passed. Hopefully yours will go through quickly as well!

Good luck!

 

[mjc2003]

We took the DVC tour in January, but then came home and decided to buy resale and just passed ROFR.

During the tour (and on subsequent phone calls after returning home) our guide told us that "Disney is buying back everything it can at BCV". He wouldn't (couldn't) tell me why, but indicated that "maybe" they were going to be next in line for the contract extension.

Nevertheless, my point is that I have only seen one contract (on these boards) be ROFR'd by Disney since the beginning of the year. It doesn't seem like they are "buying back everything". Maybe it was just his way of steering me from buying resale as I mentioned it as a possibility. He made mention of some other things that haven't happened either.

It seems that your contract will go through seeing what else has been approved. We found out in 23 days that we passed. Hopefully yours will go through quickly as well!

Good luck!

Thanks for the feedback. Regardless of their formula for what makes it through or what gets bought back, BCV is the only place they seem to be exercising ROFR at all. I thought $84 would be the magic number. I am hoping. However, the attraction of them being able to sell 400 points direct immediately is what scares me.
Did you buy BCV? If you did, do you mind asking what price? 23 days would make my life a lot easier.....here's to hoping!

 

[KGD]

No, we bought at VWL, but thought about BCV and BWV and that is what I chatted with our guide about. The location is great for Epcot, HS and the monorail to MK. So maybe that is why he said what he did about BCV and ROFR, although it hasn't seemed to be true that they are "buying everything".

The waiting is painful and a nail biter.

Best of luck to you!

 

[DebbieB]

I doubt they will ROFR. They are having problems selling the points they already have available at SSR.

They let a $62 per point SSR pass last week.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=40169389&postcount=95

 

[Sandisw]

IMO, I don't think I could put in an offer on something knowing ahead of time that there was a good chance I was going to back out. I know that there are people out there that do it, but it just seems wrong to me if you do it with that intention from the start.

But, you may want to contact a resale broker because I thought I had read that once a contract goes to ROFR, you lose your deposit if you back out.

Since you would want the contract actually submitted for ROFR by the 20th, it may not be that simple. While you may have 10 days to back out of a deal, there still might be a financial penalty for doing so.

Personally, I would not worry about passing as I too think you will.

Good luck.

 

[mjc2003]

IMO, I don't think I could put in an offer on something knowing ahead of time that there was a good chance I was going to back out. I know that there are people out there that do it, but it just seems wrong to me if you do it with that intention from the start.

But, you may want to contact a resale broker because I thought I had read that once a contract goes to ROFR, you lose your deposit if you back out.

Since you would want the contract actually submitted for ROFR by the 20th, it may not be that simple. While you may have 10 days to back out of a deal, there still might be a financial penalty for doing so.

Personally, I would not worry about passing as I too think you will.

Good luck.

I would lose my $500 deposit on the first contract. However, that's still better than spending an extra $8000 on the same contract buying direct.

While I would contend that very few people here who have bought resale ever acted with the sellers intention or best interest as the priority, I do agree that this could be less than scrupulous approach. Bottom line, I probably wouldn't want to have it done to me.

Duly noted.

I hope you're right about passing. I should have offered a few more bucks per point. Perfect contract, banked points, perfect UY for us....well worth it!

 

[DebbieB]

I would lose my $500 deposit on the first contract. However, that's still better than spending an extra $8000 on the same contract buying direct.

While I would contend that very few people here who have bought resale ever acted with the sellers intention or best interest as the priority, I do agree that this could be less than scrupulous approach. Bottom line, I probably wouldn't want to have it done to me.

Duly noted.

I hope you're right about passing. I should have offered a few more bucks per point. Perfect contract, banked points, perfect UY for us....well worth it!

Delete - misunderstanding on my part

 

[bumbershoot]

Personally, I think you overpaid. You can't compare SSR to BCV. SSR resale contracts are going dirt cheap, around $60. There is a big demand for BCV points, so they are going for more, DVC has a waitlist. DVC doesn't want to take back SSR points, there's not alot of demand, they have alot of points in their inventory.

But they *are* buying BCV... "If I wasn't buying at BCV, I wouldn't worry about it."

 

[DebbieB]

But they *are* buying BCV... "If I wasn't buying at BCV, I wouldn't worry about it."

Sorry, I misunderstood. I don't know why I thought they were buying SSR. No wonder it didn't make sense!