Is the economy really that bad?

[Carly_Roach]

Just because there are many that are struggling through no fault of there own, it doesn't change the fact that there are many struggling because they themselves are at fault.

The millions of people who are struggling because of poor planning aren't the ones I (and many others) concerned about. It's the millions...yes MILLIONS...who are struggling through no fault of their own that concern me. When you add even more millions who don't have health care because they work in jobs where their choices are to spend their limited dollars on health care or spend it on:

Food
Water
Heat
Rent/Mtg payment
Transportation costs
Child care

....we have a serious problem here in our country.

Let me re-iterate: these are people who've lost their jobs due to outsourcing or companies closing completely and can't find similar well-paying jobs anywhere near where they live. And before you say they should move, many of those responsible people, who paid for years on their mortgages not being late even once, own small, modest houses that won't sell now because of the housing market. IOW they can't move.

 

[duckfan78]

You stood in a room full of starving people and said, "Listen, I just had steak, a baked potato and chocolate mousse for dessert for lunch and I'm not all that hungry right now. Being hungry isn't really all that bad, is it?" and then got miffed when all the starving people said (as politely as possible) "Yes. Being hungry IS all that bad" instead of choking the life out of you.

I don't know how inexperienced you are, but the word naive definitely comes to mind. Don't feel bad; there are many more like you out there. They had a convention a week or so ago. You just happen to be surrounded by the same people in the same situation all day so you think everything is swell for the country because everything is going so well for you.

What are you talking about? I started the thread to have a discussion about the economy. Are you saying that all the people here are starving to death? come on get real. I never insulted anyone.

Just because I have a McCain/Palin sticker on my sig, don't go throwing me in as naive. This isnt a political thread, so get off your high Obama horse and talk about the economy. If you don't have anything to add in the conversation, then go somewhere else to give your Holy-er than now attitude.

 

[Kathi OD]

What are you talking about? I started the thread to have a discussion about the economy. Are you saying that all the people here are starving to death? come on get real. I never insulted anyone.

Just because I have a McCain/Palin sticker on my sig, don't go throwing me in as naive. This isnt a political thread, so get off your high Obama horse and talk about the economy. If you don't have anything to add in the conversation, then go somewhere else to give your Holy-er than now attitude.

It was a metaphor of your original question. And whether you want to believe this or not, a discussion on the state of the economy, 8 weeks from a national election, is indeed, political in nature.

 

[Carly_Roach]

What are you talking about? I started the thread to have a discussion about the economy. Are you saying that all the people here are starving to death? come on get real. I never insulted anyone.

Just because I have a McCain/Palin sticker on my sig, don't go throwing me in as naive. This isnt a political thread, so get off your high Obama horse and talk about the economy. If you don't have anything to add in the conversation, then go somewhere else to give your Holy-er than now attitude.

First of all, my analogy was an example and still stands. I'm not saying everyone here is starving - I'm saying you're acting puzzled because you stood in a room full of people who know people that are struggling in this economy and said, "Well I'm not struggling so it must not be all that bad. Y'all must be lying."

As I said before, the people you should really ask your question to about the economy aren't those of us who have good jobs and can afford the internet. If you ask a rich man how the economy is going, he'll tell you it's going great. QED. You're not asking the poor man how the economy is doing because that poor man isn't here. He's economizing by not having the internet. And even if he does have internet access, he's probably not looking at a WDW vacation board.

Secondly, I have all signatures, avatars and post images turned off because it loads the page faster. I have no clue what's in your, or anyone elses, signature.

And third: I AM talking about the economy. I'm telling you and everyone here what I'm seeing in Michigan. What's going wrong is that you don't like what I'm saying because I'm not agreeing with you that the economy is just swell.

Sorry.

 

[Took]

Yes, the economy is that bad. But the people who really should be answering this question about the economy aren't on the internet to talk to you about it. They can't afford it. They're doing the responsible thing and cutting way back on luxuries which includes internet service.

When those of us who can afford the internet tell of all the people we know who've been affected by this bad economy, the answer we get from the clueless is that all those people in dire straights must be irresponsible. Like it's their fault their jobs were shipped overseas, or that they haven't had a raise in pay in five years, or that their companies (now including banking institutions) had to close their doors because of a dwindling economy.
/QUOTE]

This is so true. I've got friends who seem, through no fault of their own, to have it pretty bad right now. Most all were hard-working and lost jobs b/c the company or industry took a down turn. Because one friend in this position lost health insurance and then had high and unexpected medical bills, she is all but broke. She lost her home and had hospitals coming after her for higher payments than she could afford. She has managed, by working up to three jobs at once, to stay out of bankruptcy. But just barely.

Things simply cost more now. Many of us don't really notice it, but the fact hits those making under $41,000/year (1/2 of American families) hard.

Took

PS OTher friend called and said gas was up to $5/gallon in east TN (some stations, not all). Obviously, this may be temporary, but if not, folks WILL feel the pinch.

 

[C.Ann]

Whenever I go to the stores, they are packed. you can't even get a seat in a resturant most of the time, and never get on on the weekends around here because they are so jam packed. The malls are jam packed especially on the weekends.

I guess I just don't understand it too much, people are spending money, going out to eat still traveling, and yet everyone is saying how hard the times are. Is it that people have to sacrafice a little bit and are used to such lavish lifestles that they thing all the worst now?

Those would be the people who refuse to acknowledge what is going on with the economy and continue to live their lives as though this is just a short term situation that is going to "magically" disappear in a few months.. When it finally does have an impact on them, they will be caught totally off guard and won't know what hit them..

Anyone is one catastrophic illness away from being in debt or being "on the street".

And I don't care if you're a multi-millionaire with great insurance ~ you're still only one catastrophic illness away from being on the street.

People don't understand that every health insurance policy has a lifetime cap on it (and from what I read on these boards, most people never even check to see what their cap is).. Once you hit that mark (and in many cases it takes only one catastrophic illness) you will then have to pay out of your own pocket.. Heaven help you if a second member of your family is also hit with a catastrophic illness..

We pay a sizeable amount for health coverage through DH's employer but, in return, we get excellent health coverage. I hear complaints all the time from friends who expect to pay nothing for their health coverage yet they want the best.

See above..

Yes - the economy is in bad shape and people should be cutting back now - for when it gets worse later..

 

[LuvDuke]

People don't understand that every health insurance policy has a lifetime cap on it (and from what I read on these boards, most people never even check to see what their cap is).. Once you hit that mark (and in many cases it takes only one catastrophic illness) you will then have to pay out of your own pocket.. Heaven help you if a second member of your family is also hit with a catastrophic illness..

Here's a story that should make everyone's hair curl about illness and insurance.

One of our friend's son was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Mercifully, all is well now.

While the son was in the hospital recovering from brain surgery, the father had a heart attack and had to have quadruple by-pass surgery. Again, mercifully, all is well now.

However the point of all of this is that the cap on their insurance was $1,000,000. Their bills were over $2,000,000. Brain surgery, quadruple by-passes and ICU ain't cheap.

They've declared bankruptcy. There was no way on God's green earth they could pay those bills.

They did everything right ........ except get sick.

But those people are invisible.

 

[C.Ann]

Here's a story that should make everyone's hair curl about illness and insurance.

One of our friend's son was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Mercifully, all is well now.

While the son was in the hospital recovering from brain surgery, the father had a heart attack and had to have quadruple by-pass surgery. Again, mercifully, all is well now.

However the point of all of this is that the cap on their insurance was $1,000,000. Their bills were over $2,000,000. Brain surgery, quadruple by-passes and ICU ain't cheap.

They've declared bankruptcy. There was no way on God's green earth they could pay those bills.

They did everything right ........ except get sick.

But those people are invisible.

--------------------------

Exactly! Many, many health insurance policies have a one million dollar "cap" on them, but people don't take the time to look and see what their cap is..

They just sit back and say, "Oh - we have excellent health insurance.." Of course they do - to a certain cap.. After that, they better start wiping out their entire life savings..

 

[luvmy3]

The millions of people who are struggling because of poor planning aren't the ones I (and many others) concerned about. It's the millions...yes MILLIONS...who are struggling through no fault of their own that concern me. When you add even more millions who don't have health care because they work in jobs where their choices are to spend their limited dollars on health care or spend it on:

Food
Water
Heat
Rent/Mtg payment
Transportation costs
Child care

....we have a serious problem here in our country.

Let me re-iterate: these are people who've lost their jobs due to outsourcing or companies closing completely and can't find similar well-paying jobs anywhere near where they live. And before you say they should move, many of those responsible people, who paid for years on their mortgages not being late even once, own small, modest houses that won't sell now because of the housing market. IOW they can't move.

I'm not quite sure why you keep bringing this fact up. I never denied that their are people, millions of people who are struggling to keep their homes, pay their bills, etc due to the economy.
The OP asked if there was anyone out there who did not see the doom and gloom effects of it. I personally don't in my area, but it doesn't mean I'm denying that others do.

 

[Carly_Roach]

They did everything right ........ except get sick.

But those people are invisible.

Not invisible; they're being blamed for poor planning. If they didn't want to lose everything then they should have taken better care of their health or gone to a cheaper hospital.

Ah well, better they die now and decrease the surplus population, right?

 

[luvmy3]

Not invisible; they're being blamed for poor planning. If they didn't want to lose everything then they should have taken better care of their health or gone to a cheaper hospital.

Ah well, better they die now and decrease the surplus population, right?

Twist words much, Carly Roach?

 

[ginnibobb]

As I said before, the people you should really ask your question to about the economy aren't those of us who have good jobs and can afford the internet. If you ask a rich man how the economy is going, he'll tell you it's going great. QED. You're not asking the poor man how the economy is doing because that poor man isn't here. He's economizing by not having the internet. And even if he does have internet access, he's probably not looking at a WDW vacation board.

Even though that "poor man" is probably not here on these boards my guess is he will be in the voting booth Nov 4th Anyone care to speculate how the majority of these millions of people who are hardest hit by the economy, whether by no fault or fault of their own, will be voting?

 

[hentob]

Here's a story that should make everyone's hair curl about illness and insurance.

One of our friend's son was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Mercifully, all is well now.

While the son was in the hospital recovering from brain surgery, the father had a heart attack and had to have quadruple by-pass surgery. Again, mercifully, all is well now.

However the point of all of this is that the cap on their insurance was $1,000,000. Their bills were over $2,000,000. Brain surgery, quadruple by-passes and ICU ain't cheap.

They've declared bankruptcy. There was no way on God's green earth they could pay those bills.

They are who bankruptcy is meant for

Not for people who live above their means, rack up credit cards on vacations, dining out, expensive clothing and bags, etc.

We see it on here all of the time. It is disgusting. People have no shame about it either. There was a woman a few months ago planning to file BK and was charging Disney Dollars before she did so And she bragged about it There was a woman who had her daughter's braces taken off because she couldn't pay for them and a few weeks later she was planning a trip to WDW There are people here who file BK and then celebrate by taking a trip because "Life is too short"

I am not talking about people who get sick. I agree, we are all one illness away from devastaion

 

[Carly_Roach]

Twist words much, Carly Roach?

Not really.

I have been shopping for a new car (a specific SUV). I went to two dealerships and they both told me they can't keep them in stock. Stores and restaurants are packed, traffic is just as bad as it was before gas prices started to rise.

Personally, we are not close to living on the street, and I don't know anyone that is.

If you don't prepare for the what ifs, then yes in a way you are being irresponsible. It doesn't matter who is in office, the economy will have its ups and downs. We are supposed to be prepared for those downs so that we don't end up losing our homes.

Where did I say it was their fault the economy is bad? I said its their fault for not preparing for a bad economy. Its their fault for making financial decisions without considering the "what ifs".

Just because there are many that are struggling through no fault of there own, it doesn't change the fact that there are many struggling because they themselves are at fault.

Don't feel bad or that I'm picking on you. I've seen it so many times here in Michigan: Your current attitude about the economy used to be the attitude of those who are now understanding, in a very real way, how easy it is to be one of those "irresponsible people who didn't plan well".

When that person, who oh-so-smugly used to blame others for bad choices when they lost their homes or couldn't afford gas for their cars, lost their own jobs (sometimes both DH and DW at or near the same time) or got hit with a catastrophic medical event; when they saw that all those painfull years of saving carefully, living frugally, and doing the right thing were gone in a matter of months, they finally understood what we've been saying since 2003.

They find out, first hand, that it's more like a crap-shoot and luck of the draw rather than careful planning that secured their financial well-being.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Even though that "poor man" is probably not here on these boards my guess is he will be in the voting booth Nov 4th Anyone care to speculate how the majority of these millions of people who are hardest hit by the economy, whether by no fault or fault of their own, will be voting?

Which is why the McCain campaign strategists and Faux News are trying to turn this race into a popularity contest instead of an issues contest.

Obama is smart to not play McCain's game and, instead, is hammering away at how badly the people in this country are really doing and how that has to change. I hope he keeps the pressure on and convinces people that they're not voting for the next American Idol on November 4.

 

[C.Ann]

They find out, first hand, that it's more like a crap-shoot and luck of the draw rather than careful planning that secured their financial well-being.

--------------------
Yup.. That's pretty much it - in a nutshell..

 

[hentob]

They find out, first hand, that it's more like a crap-shoot and luck of the draw rather than careful planning that secured their financial well-being.

No. Not really. I really don't believe it is a "crap shoot"

Careful planning will statistically secure your financial future in the majority of cases.

Yes, sometimes you have no control over what happens (illness, death, major catastrophe) , but planning wisely, as far as finances go, is quite beneficial

 

[Carly_Roach]

Careful planning will statistically secure your financial future in the majority of cases.

Yes, sometimes you have no control over what happens (illness, death, major catastrophe) , but planning wisely, as far as finances go, is quite beneficial

I agree. I thoroughly support planning wisely. That's worked wonderfully for my great-grandparents, my grand-parents and my parents. But we're not living in those times upon which those statistics are based, are we?

My and DH's family background runs through farming, steel production, auto production and the electrical and telephone service industries. The very same areas that are now controlled by one or two corporations rather than multiple smaller businesses.

While good financial planning is something everyone aspires to, it's not always something everyone can afford to do while trying to live with $4.00 gas, food prices skyrocketing and heating costs going up each winter while working service industry jobs. Even though we're fairly secure, I can see other's pain and problems and want a better world for them.

Or, at least, a better America.

We need to start producing American products again and keep that production domestic. Unfortunately, with our debt to China growing every day by the millions (in interest alone) to pay for a war that 80% of the American people don't want, it isn't likely that we're going to be able to refuse the cheap, lead-filled Chinese products any time soon. If we did, they might decide to call their mortgage on America due: payment in full - right now.

And when that happens, all bets are off and no amount of financial planning is going to help any one of the 99% of people who are not billionaires and can afford to leave the country. When that happens, every last man, woman and child over the age of 12 may be asked to take up a weapon, learn to use it, and stand a post 'cause it's a-gonna get ugly.

 

[C.Ann]

No. Not really. I really don't believe it is a "crap shoot"

Careful planning will statistically secure your financial future in the majority of cases.

Yes, sometimes you have no control over what happens (illness, death, major catastrophe) , but planning wisely, as far as finances go, is quite beneficial

---------------------------

I don't think anyone is saying that planning wisely is not the correct thing to do, but a catastrophic illness - in many cases - is just that, "a crap shoot".. I don't know of anyone who has ever chosen to be stricken with cancer; require a liver transplant; end up in a vegetative state in their 30's due to a brain aneurism; etc..

 

[luvmy3]

Not really. Don't feel bad or that I'm picking on you. I've seen it so many times here in Michigan: Your current attitude about the economy used to be the attitude of those who are now understanding, in a very real way, how easy it is to be one of those "irresponsible people who didn't plan well".

When that person, who oh-so-smugly used to blame others for bad choices when they lost their homes or couldn't afford gas for their cars, lost their own jobs (sometimes both DH and DW at or near the same time) or got hit with a catastrophic medical event; when they saw that all those painfull years of saving carefully, living frugally, and doing the right thing were gone in a matter of months, they finally understood what we've been saying since 2003.

They find out, first hand, that it's more like a crap-shoot and luck of the draw rather than careful planning that secured their financial well-being.

I would consider a medical catastrophe an event which is beyond one's control. So, if that were to happen to someone and they lost their home, savings, etc it would have been no fault of their own. Maybe if you look back at some of my posts, including the ones you decided bold only parts of, you would know I was not talking about those situations. Oh, but that too easy, then you wouldn't be able to put up this meaningless argument.
You are the one twisting my words to fit what you think I'm saying.

FWIW, I'm not being smug, there are people who are having financial difficulties because of their own bad decisions. I even know some of them personally. But hey, I guess we shouldn't blame them or feel they should take responsibility for themselves, we can just blame it on the gov't and the economy. And if anyone dares point out the truth, we'll just respond with snide remarks and call them names.