Is Member Services Funded By Membership Dues?

[What-r-ya Goofy?]

I'm hoping someone with knowledge of the DVC budget can answer this question. No speculation please .

The reason I ask the question is that it appears to me that resale members are being treated as second class members when it comes to contract sales with direct sales contracts given top priority. If MS (Member Services) and MA (Member Administration) are funded by membership dues then all members should be given the same level of service. Why does it take 10-12 weeks after a resale deed is recorded for points to post to a members account when direct sales points show within days if not sooner? I have read of direct member having points in their accounts even before their deed is recorded. I'm not sure if that is true, but I have read that more that once on these boards.

I understand that DVC wants to make direct sales as attractive as possible, but that should not be at the expense of all dues paying members. I have nothing against direct sales members especially if they have been promised immediate access to their points by DVC sales.

If it turns out that MS and MA are funded entirely by new contract sales (similar to Moonlight Magic Events), then I guess I need to be thankful as a resale owner that they service me at all. However, if I am paying for MS and MA through my dues I expect equal treatment.

Thanks in advance to anyone that takes the time to reply or can point me in the right direction to research for myself!

 

[Sandisw]

From my understanding, MS is part of the management company which we pay for via the dues,

Membership Administration is the department that handles the transfer of resale contracts Between members However, when buying direct, there is a different process for sale that does not involve the transfer in the same way it does for resale,

Direct buyers have accounts created before they even own. So, it is not the same thing. That is why it can be done in a day vs, resale. New member number is created and everything...or, added to an existing one. My RiV was loaded and reservations booked the same day. My deed wasn’t signed and recorded for 6 weeks.

While I was told membership administration handles it, it sounded like it was a subsection...because they are two different processes.

What I didnt ask is if DVD pays for their own employees to handle direct sales...probably a good question for anyone who wants to know for sure,

 

[Fangorn]

... What I didnt ask is if DVD pays for their own employees to handle direct sales...probably a good question for anyone who wants to know for sure,

Based on my experience, it seems it must be DVD setting it all up, not Member Accounting. When we bought Poly direct, we signed the final paperwork about 4pm, went to dinner and by the time we were finished, I had an email with all the details of member number, and how to log in to the site. Points were loaded and i made a reservation later that evening. This was on a Saturday, so Member Accounting wasn't even working.

Operationally, it would make sense for DVD to do it themselves at the same time they're finalizing everything on the sales side. They have all the data, and have to enter it all into their systems anyway. I suspect there's an automatic feed from DVD into the MA system that sets up the membership - complete with points loaded. No MA personnel required.

Don't know for sure though, but I can't see how this could've worked otherwise.

Steve

 

[Sandisw]

Based on my experience, it seems it must be DVD setting it all up, not Member Accounting. When we bought Poly direct, we signed the final paperwork about 4pm, went to dinner and by the time we were finished, I had an email with all the details of member number, and how to log in to the site. Points were loaded and i made a reservation later that evening. This was on a Saturday, so Member Accounting wasn't even working.

Operationally, it would make sense for DVD to do it themselves at the same time they're finalizing everything on the sales side. They have all the data, and have to enter it all into their systems anyway. I suspect there's an automatic feed from DVD into the MA system that sets up the membership - complete with points loaded. No MA personnel required.

Don't know for sure though, but I can't see how this could've worked otherwise.

Steve

That was the impression I got that there are different people or divisions handling direct vs resales.

But it certainly does sound that maybe DVD actual handles the direct sales out of their own company.

 

[drusba]

Purchasers from DVD have always been able to (usually) make use of the points quicker than resale purchasers. That is because DVD will allow purchasers from it to set up accounts and request through their agent setting up a post-closing reservation before there is even a closing, something DVD can do, because, if for any reason there is not a closing, it just keeps the points and cancels the reservation. DVD obviously will not provide such a benefit for resale purchasers. In the past, resale purchasers usually were able to set up their accounts and use points within about a week or so after closing . If it is now taking much longer, I assume that is the result of the limitations brought on by coronavirus, including not having as many employees working, and not having them work together in one office.

As to how MS operations are funded, the portion that deals with sales from DVD, closing of DVD sales, setting up new member accounts for such sales, and dealing with any financing for such sales is DVD's responsibility. Otherwise, as to every day MS operations, and anything to do with setting up membership/reservation systems for resales, is something partially funded by dues. The sources of funding are:

1. DVCM, the management company for each resort controls most of those MS operations. The principal source of income for those MS operations is the annual management fee payable to DVCM equalling 12% of the annual budget, and the total annual budget used for that calculation is that which excludes property taxes, that 12% management fee, and some other items. Though that 12% can increase as overall annual dues increase, it does not vary, up or down, based on actual services provided or persons employed, e.g., if MS had only one person working MS (a ridiculous example) DVCM would still get the 12%, the same if it had a thousand people working.

2. A significant portion of MS operations is the reservation system and services related thereto, which would include creating membership accounts for resale members so they can begin making reservations. Part of DVCMs responsibiltity is that reservation system to the extent it deals with home resort matters and reservations. However, to the extent the reservation system deals with members reserving DVC resorts other than their own or trading out via RCI or to Disney hotels, adventure programs, etc., the designated manager is BVTC. Note, that means there are two corporations that generally make up what members refer to as Member Services, DVCM and BVTC, but that does not mean the actual employees handling both sides of MS are different, and the employees are mostly the same. BVTC has three designated sources of funding: fees it charges for trade-outs (other than for members reserving DVC Resorts, for which it is not allowed to charge any fees ), a $1 per member annual fee in the budget for the DVC Reservation Component (the portion of the reservation system that deals with 7-month reservations at non-owned DVC resorts), and a portion of the breakage income -- that income acquired from Disney's renting DVC rooms not reserved by 60-days out.

3. The way that breakage income is divided is that it goes first to offset 2.5% of the annual budget of each resort (excluding from the budget the property taxes when determining the 2.5%). Then all amounts go to BVTC until its annual costs are covered plus an additional 5% of total costs (a built in profit). Thereafter, anything left goes to DVCM as profit or to cover any addtional costs it may have above amount it otherwise gets such as the 12% management fee. In the past, breakage income has typically exceeded the 2.5% and the amount to cover BVTC.

Notice that of all those amounts that cover the centralized MS operations, none actually depends on how much or how little is spent to handle reservations or other services that MS provides to members. The amount you pay in dues for the services will neither increase nor decrease depending on actual amounts spent to provide the services. To a certain extent, it was probably set up that way to avoid DVC's having to do anything if members got together to complain to DVC that it should spend less in providing MS services to lower dues, e.g., if it provided no services whatsoever, you would still pay the same amount in dues. Nevertheless, one might also notice that the payment system is set up to create an incentive for DVCM to keep actual MS costs as low as possible so it can make a bigger profit off the 12% management fee and breakage income.

 

[CarolMN]

Nevertheless, one might also notice that the payment system is set up to create an incentive for DVCM to keep actual MS costs as low as possible so it can make a bigger profit off the 12% management fee and breakage income.

FWIW, I believe this is the reason we finally got an online booking system. Employees are expensive and MS call volumes were growing such that the additional CMs to handle it were going to cost more than the 12% would cover.

 

[zavandor]

FWIW, I believe this is the reason we finally got an online booking system. Employees are expensive and MS call volumes were growing such that the additional CMs to handle it were going to cost more than the 12% would cover.

And the option to modify a reservation, later. It used to be call only.

 

[Dean]

I'm hoping someone with knowledge of the DVC budget can answer this question. No speculation please .

The reason I ask the question is that it appears to me that resale members are being treated as second class members when it comes to contract sales with direct sales contracts given top priority. If MS (Member Services) and MA (Member Administration) are funded by membership dues then all members should be given the same level of service. Why does it take 10-12 weeks after a resale deed is recorded for points to post to a members account when direct sales points show within days if not sooner? I have read of direct member having points in their accounts even before their deed is recorded. I'm not sure if that is true, but I have read that more that once on these boards.

I understand that DVC wants to make direct sales as attractive as possible, but that should not be at the expense of all dues paying members. I have nothing against direct sales members especially if they have been promised immediate access to their points by DVC sales.

If it turns out that MS and MA are funded entirely by new contract sales (similar to Moonlight Magic Events), then I guess I need to be thankful as a resale owner that they service me at all. However, if I am paying for MS and MA through my dues I expect equal treatment.

Thanks in advance to anyone that takes the time to reply or can point me in the right direction to research for myself!

From my understand DVCMC is funded entirely by dues. Remember that ROFR is outside MS. For a contract purchase you're not a member until everything is changed over and even if you own otherwise, this would be independent. I am not totally sure of how much DVD is involved in the transfer process, that would require some investigation to pin down if one ever could. Probably the best way to get at this is to discuss with MA then if necessary, corporate.

 

[CarolMN]

I honesty believe that the slower process is entirely due to the furloughs and "work-at-home" strategy many employers are using to deal with the virus. We should see the pace of processing pick up again as more employees return to work. That may still take quite a while.

 

[What-r-ya Goofy?]

Thanks to everyone that took the time to reply. That information is very helpful.

My only concern then is why are they still not staffing MS and MA to the level needed to properly service membership? If I am understanding correctly, they are not experiencing a reduction in funding as member dues are still being collected and were collected throughout the park closure period. If anything they should have a surplus of funds available as a result of all of the layoffs.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to be able to call MS and MA and have someone there to answer a question, or to process routine paperwork in a reasonable time. Members should not have to wait weeks for a response to an email and months for simple tasks to be completed. It's time to bring staff members back to work and provide membership the level of service that we are paying for.

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks to everyone that took the time to reply. That information is very helpful.

My only concern then is why are they still not staffing MS and MA to the level needed to properly service membership? If I am understanding correctly, they are not experiencing a reduction in funding as member dues are still being collected and were collected throughout the park closure period. If anything they should have a surplus of funds available as a result of all of the layoffs.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to be able to call MS and MA and have someone there to answer a question, or to process routine paperwork in a reasonable time. Members should not have to wait weeks for a response to an email and months for simple tasks to be completed. It's time to bring staff members back to work and provide membership the level of service that we are paying for.

There are are areas of the operations budget due to closures that may see a reduction and it could be playing a role? Also income from breakage, etc. that plays a role.

As mentioned, we don’t know for sure that the people who work on the creation for direct sales by DVD is funded by dues.

Obviously, they cut staff due to many factors, and i was told they have begun to bring people back so the process for resale should be better.

I agree that anyone really wanting the Ins and outs should reach out to them to get specifics! Lots of great info here!

 

[Hopfather28]

I'm not sure that slowdown we saw earlier this summer is still really happening. I had my contract appear 31 days after my deed was recorded and received points the next evening (on a Saturday no less). Most things are expedited when you cut out the middle man which is essentially what resale adds.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not sure that slowdown we saw earlier this summer is still really happening. I had my contract appear 31 days after my deed was recorded and received points the next evening (on a Saturday no less). Most things are expedited when you cut out the middle man which is essentially what resale adds.

You are lucky. Mine showed up late a Thursday, the 13th of August and still no points as of today.

 

[Hopfather28]

You are lucky. Mine showed up late a Thursday, the 13th of August and still no points as of today.

Yeah I know I'm an outlier and certainly appreciate that but things are moving again so that is good.

 

[EM Lawrence]

@What-r-ya Goofy? THIS is the information I have been looking for as well. As a resale purchaser I was frustrated that it took me 62 days to get through ROFR, but I’m actually ANGRY at the thought that it may be another 6-8 weeks before I get access to property that I have paid for. (Plus I am paying all of the 2020 MF so I feel like this is a service I have paid for an am not being provided.) @drusba has given the best explanation I’ve seen thus far about how administrative tasks are funded. I can’t think of a single valid reason that MS should not be operating at full capacity at this point in time. They’ve had plenty of time to figure out work from home strategies if that is what is necessary.

 

[What-r-ya Goofy?]

It would be interesting to hear from DVC cast members as to their perspective on the motives for staff furloughs. The reduction in staff is starting to sound more like a cost saving measure and less about a reaction to the virus.

 

[Sandisw]

It would be interesting to hear from DVC cast members as to their perspective on the motives for staff furloughs. The reduction in staff is starting to sound more like a cost saving measure and less about a reaction to the virus.

I definitely think all Disney divisions that did furlough, did so because of cost.

They kept CMs home and paid them for a little while...though MS never shut down but many worked from home...still do.

But, after so long, the furloughs happened and people are just getting back. Why they decided it was needed, is only a guess. I shared my thoughts but again, nothing more than a guess.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thanks to everyone that took the time to reply. That information is very helpful.

My only concern then is why are they still not staffing MS and MA to the level needed to properly service membership? If I am understanding correctly, they are not experiencing a reduction in funding as member dues are still being collected and were collected throughout the park closure period. If anything they should have a surplus of funds available as a result of all of the layoffs.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to be able to call MS and MA and have someone there to answer a question, or to process routine paperwork in a reasonable time. Members should not have to wait weeks for a response to an email and months for simple tasks to be completed. It's time to bring staff members back to work and provide membership the level of service that we are paying for.

As was pointed out MS is part of the DVC management company that is contracted to run DVC for the members. So they can be, and almost certainly are, a profit center for Disney. In that regard if they cut back on CM's then they save money. The only real recourse members have is to decide to remove them as the management company however that isn't ever going to happen until the day that Disney wants it to happen. This all is different than if the CM's were directly hired by the association. DVC might of course respond to complaints about staffing levels but then again they may not. Their position is about as secure as it can get. I'm also not stating that if everything went down hill that it wouldn't be responded to but I don't think their feet will get held to any fire over staffing at this time.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It would be interesting to hear from DVC cast members as to their perspective on the motives for staff furloughs. The reduction in staff is starting to sound more like a cost saving measure and less about a reaction to the virus.

Absolutely cost savings. There were only increases to calls to MS during this time where if they were actually about the service they would have been hiring. They however are a profit center and reduced.

 

[EM Lawrence]

I’m sure you are right that they will not be held accountable. But don’t they have a responsibility to place the best interest of the members above their profit margins? I don’t actually have any of the paperwork yet, so I don’t know how that relationship is legally spelled out, just a general understanding that they are bound to make decisions in the best interest of the members. Beyond the delay in processing resale transactions, I would venture to say that drastically reduced customer service, weeks to respond to emails and hours long holds to get through to CM have not been in the best interest of the members. I’ve read a lot of complaints of that nature on these boards over the past several months. Although I do think the call wait times are not being complained about as frequently now.