Is it just me?

[clsteve]

Why do they have to justify that? All they have to do is tell people that they have an opportunity to reserve spots for 3 attractions. All of the information is out there to let guests learn about what attractions appeal to them and make their selections. If they just accept what Disney gives them, or select something that many would consider a waste, why would you care?

Why do I care?

Because it's the big, glowing, index finger pointed, Mickey Hand to the fact that this is all about guests besides those of us who have been going to Disney for the last 5 decades. Captain EO, 1980's, FP+, Really...?

Because it highlights 20+ years of neglect to the once vibrant Park that is EPCOT.

Because it shows how far behind Disney is with ride capacity and how long it's going to take to even begin to meet demand.

Sorry, you asked....

 

[wisblue]

Why do I care?

Because it's the big, glowing, index finger pointed, Mickey Hand to the fact that this is all about guests besides those of us who have been going to Disney for the last 5 decades. Captain EO, 1980's, FP+, Really...?

Because it highlights 20+ years of neglect to the once vibrant Park that is EPCOT.

Because it shows how far behind Disney is with ride capacity and how long it's going to take to even begin to meet demand.

Sorry, you asked....

But, in the last 20 (actually 15) years, Epcot has added Soarin, Test Track, and Mission Space. Are you saying the park was better 20 years ago than it is now? Even as a lot of the biggest opponents of FP+ are saying that Soarin and Test Track are the only attractions in the park worth doing?

The biggest complainers on this subject are people who visit WDW frequently and want to ride the same attractions over and over because to them there aren't enough other alternatives. But, for first time and much less frequent visitors, the parks are still exciting because to them the things that frequent visitors consider stale are new. And Disney is trying to give those visitors a better chance to experience some of its biggest attractions ONCE, instead of having a significant part of the capacity taken by people who have experienced them dozens, if not hundreds, of times.

 

[wn01aa]

But, in the last 20 (actually 15) years, Epcot has added Soarin, Test Track, and Mission Space. Are you saying the park was better 20 years ago than it is now? Even as a lot of the biggest opponents of FP+ are saying that Soarin and Test Track are the only attractions in the park worth doing?

The biggest complainers on this subject are people who visit WDW frequently and want to ride the same attractions over and over because to them there aren't enough other alternatives. But, for first time and much less frequent visitors, the parks are still exciting because to them the things that frequent visitors consider stale are new. And Disney is trying to give those visitors a better chance to experience some of its biggest attractions ONCE, instead of having a significant part of the capacity taken by people who have experienced them dozens, if not hundreds, of times.

I must admit I did enjoy Epcot much more in the 90's. I have never liked Mission Space and wish they would have added Test Track rather then removing one of their few rides in the park. Long live Horizons, World of Motion, Kitchen Kabert, Honey I Shrunk The Audience, and The Original Journey into Imagination. Disney should add more rides in Epcot, not just replace one ride with another one.

 

[Shaden]

That is a totally uncalled for remark.

Just because someone disagrees with you and the others who are up in arms about how FP+ will play out does not make them "willfully ignorant".

Its a perfectly called for remark, and its absolutely accurate.

This isn't about people not agreeing with me, or others. Its about people purposefully ignoring facts and reality when they are presented to them.

I am more than happy to admit when the pro FP+ people have some good points. Like it sounds great to be able to do RD and then book afternoon/evening FP+s. And while I point out that its POSSIBLE Afternoon FPs will be booked solid, long in advance, and morning RD might end up with more people at it due to people booking early FPs (as we have already seen). I always say this is what I see as the "likely" outcome.

However, there are other aspects of this system, and Disney's behavior which is seems the Kool-Aid drinkers are more than willing to simply ignore, even when they are presented with them. That makes them, willfully ignorant.

 

[Granny square]

I must admit I did enjoy Epcot much more in the 90's. I have never liked Mission Space and wish they would have added Test Track rather then removing one of their few rides in the park. Long live Horizons, World of Motion, Kitchen Kabert, Honey I Shrunk The Audience, and The Original Journey into Imagination. Disney should add more rides in Epcot, not just replace one ride with another one.

Amen!

And Walter Cronkite!

 

[Planogirl]

I must admit I did enjoy Epcot much more in the 90's. I have never liked Mission Space and wish they would have added Test Track rather then removing one of their few rides in the park. Long live Horizons, World of Motion, Kitchen Kabert, Honey I Shrunk The Audience, and The Original Journey into Imagination. Disney should add more rides in Epcot, not just replace one ride with another one.

I agree. To me, Mission Space is lame and how many times can someone fly over a dusty, scratched up California? I'll reserve judgment on Test Track since we haven't tried the new version yet.

I will admit that it would be nice to be able to reserve some fastpasses ahead of time. It would be nice to be included in some way. However I don't understand defending the tiering, being able to only reserve three per day and all at the same park and leaving the value resorts out of legacy during a busy time. That part continues to puzzle me.

 

[clsteve]

But, in the last 20 (actually 15) years, Epcot has added Soarin, Test Track, and Mission Space. Are you saying the park was better 20 years ago than it is now? Even as a lot of the biggest opponents of FP+ are saying that Soarin and Test Track are the only attractions in the park worth doing?

The biggest complainers on this subject are people who visit WDW frequently and want to ride the same attractions over and over because to them there aren't enough other alternatives. But, for first time and much less frequent visitors, the parks are still exciting because to them the things that frequent visitors consider stale are new. And Disney is trying to give those visitors a better chance to experience some of its biggest attractions ONCE, instead of having a significant part of the capacity taken by people who have experienced them dozens, if not hundreds, of times.[

You've said it many times, but you've never once shown where Disney has ever stated that this is about ride equality - where any C-level comment, Analyst comment, Press comment, Blogger comment, CM comment even insinuates that's what this is about? Is it just a gut feel, a hope, a dream?

And yes, I do think EPCOT was better - net loss in rides, empty buildings, no additional countries, and Captain EO, along with a neutered Figment, are now FP+ worthy - what else is there to say?

 

[wisblue]

Its a perfectly called for remark, and its absolutely accurate.

This isn't about people not agreeing with me, or others. Its about people purposefully ignoring facts and reality when they are presented to them.

I am more than happy to admit when the pro FP+ people have some good points. Like it sounds great to be able to do RD and then book afternoon/evening FP+s. And while I point out that its POSSIBLE Afternoon FPs will be booked solid, long in advance, and morning RD might end up with more people at it due to people booking early FPs (as we have already seen). I always say this is what I see as the "likely" outcome.

However, there are other aspects of this system, and Disney's behavior which is seems the Kool-Aid drinkers are more than willing to simply ignore, even when they are presented with them. That makes them, willfully ignorant.

How the final structure of FP+ will affect guest behavior and crowd patterns is not "facts and reality". It is opinion based on assumptions about facts and what the results of those facts will be.

Just because you think something is a likely outcome does not make it a fact.

 

[Planogirl]

How the final structure of FP+ will affect guest behavior and crowd patterns is not "facts and reality". It is opinion based on assumptions about facts and what the results of those facts will be.

Just because you think something is a likely outcome does not make it a fact.

Some of us don't care about the final structure since we are about to visit the world. Right now the current structure is a fact for those of us about to travel.

 

[Allison]

Or do the proponents for FP+ who are sharing their experience seem unbelievably giddy about it? Those that don't like it seem to admit that if certain parts were run differently it could be ok. I guess what I am trying to say is it seems as if the proponents are trying awfully hard to prove those whose opinion differs woefully wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

I would say it goes both ways. I don't see any"side" trying anyharder than the other to get their opinion across.

I mean people who haven't even experienced it yet certainly have strong opinions about it.

 

[Planogirl]

I would say it goes both ways. I don't see any"side" trying anyharder than the other to get their opinion across.

I mean people who haven't even experienced it yet certainly have strong opinions about it.

There are many things that I haven't experienced in life that I have opinions about. Disney is no different.

Of course, I would be glad to try it if they would just expand it. Until then I have to base my judgments on reports.

 

[Robo]

There are many things that I haven't experienced in life that I have opinions about. Disney is no different.

Of course, I would be glad to try it if they would just expand it. Until then I have to base my judgments on reports.

Yes. I HAVE experienced WDW without the constraints of FP+.

I don't need to be tied with a rope to a tree to know that I won't like it.

 

[Shaden]

How the final structure of FP+ will affect guest behavior and crowd patterns is not "facts and reality". It is opinion based on assumptions about facts and what the results of those facts will be.

Just because you think something is a likely outcome does not make it a fact.

Some of us don't care about the final structure since we are about to visit the world. Right now the current structure is a fact for those of us about to travel.

a) Thank you Plano

b) you just don't get it wis, I will try again. There are things we know as fact. Insofar as the current iteration of the system continues. This is as much as fact as saying, the Poly has a volcano pool !!! It does, of course, Disney could change this at any time, but if someone asked, you would say, the Poly has a volcano pool !!!

Likewise, stating things like: Your experience booking afternoon FPs isn't representative of what it will be like with everyone onsite and offsite is on FP+ AND Disney is promoting the hell out of it ... guess what, that's fact.

Arguing that it will be MORE difficult (note, no bar for difficulty, no specificity about what day you will have to booked on) to book FP+ for the most popular attraction when there are more people using the system and trying to book FP+, that's fact, not opinion.

Indeed, making notes about the limited capacity of rides vs the number of potential people booking FP+, that's dealing with facts, no opinions.

The facts that we have to deal with are what know about the system, here, now, today. If you are going to suggest that we "don't know" what the system will look like when its fully rolled out (despite the current iteration, the statements by Disney, the reports from Disney execs etc etc) then um ... sure ? I guess you could argue that Disney is going to start giving everyone an Unicorn that you can ride across a rainbow too ... because, hey, that's possible.

 

[Shaden]

Yes. I HAVE experienced WDW without the constraints of FP+.

I don't need to be tied with a rope to a tree to know that I won't like it.

Also this ...

 

[Allison]

There are many things that I haven't experienced in life that I have opinions about. Disney is no different.

Of course, I would be glad to try it if they would just expand it. Until then I have to base my judgments on reports.

And I didn't say that they shouldn't or couldn't have opinions. You missed my point. The point is lots of people have lots of opinions about it and I don't find any one group more passionate than the other, unlike what the op is saying.

 

[Planogirl]

And I didn't say that they shouldn't or couldn't have opinions. You missed my point. The point is lots of people have lots of opinions about it and I don't find any one group more passionate than the other, unlike what the op is saying.

I actually got your point and agree but responded poorly. I should have added that I agreed.

It's really true that both sides feel strongly and some on both sides have never tried it. As Robo's example illustrates we all make assumptions based on reports and even some facts occasionally.

 

[vrajewski10513]

DH and I went to WDW on our honeymoon in October and had nothing but wonderful experiences with the FP+ and the magic bands. It was nice waking up in the morning and planning our day and scheduling our fast passes right from the mobile app. I didn't see any issues at all..

 

[Allison]

I actually got your point and agree but responded poorly. I should have added that I agreed.

It's really true that both sides feel strongly and some on both sides have never tried it. As Robo's example illustrates we all make assumptions based on reports and even some facts occasionally.

Oh...so we are on the same page then. Got it.

It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out for Disney and the guest.

 

[Robo]

.

 

[wisblue]

You've said it many times, but you've never once shown where Disney has ever stated that this is about ride equality - where any C-level comment, Analyst comment, Press comment, Blogger comment, CM comment even insinuates that's what this is about? Is it just a gut feel, a hope, a dream?

And yes, I do think EPCOT was better - net loss in rides, empty buildings, no additional countries, and Captain EO, along with a neutered Figment, are now FP+ worthy - what else is there to say?

I confess that I have never heard of a Disney executive stating to the press or to investors that they don't have enough attractive ride capacity at some of their parks so that they have to put in a system to make sure that as many guests as possible can enjoy those attractions.

But, I know from my time working for large publicly traded companies that what executives say to the press and to investors are often different than what they say in internal meetings. I've never said that "ride equality" is the primary driving force behind MM+ or FP+. But, I think Disney realizes that without some restrictions on the availability of FPs their stated objectives relating to encouraging guests to spend more time at WDW would be that much harder to achieve.

As for the evolution of Epcot, that should be a different discussion in a different forum. But, from the things I've read, a lot of that evolution is a result of Disney having more difficulty finding corporate sponsors or countries to share in the cost of developing and maintaining attractions and pavilions.

And don't get me started about the changes to JIA, which was my single favorite attraction when I first visited Epcot in 1982.