Is God ,Jesus?

[ElizK]

The explanation that best described the Trinity so that I could understand it was water (God), ice(Jesus), and steam(Holy Spirit). They're all water, but in three distinct forms.

 

[oxfordcircus]

Just one more comment, if you continue to read further down on Wikipedia you will come to different forms os UU.

I don't consider Wikipedia to be an authority as much as a more static and searchable message board - so please don't take that link as my trying to argue with you. I don't mean to argue. I didn't mean to comment on the current UU organization. I was just trying to comment on the historical origin of the name. I found it interesting that so many denominations chose odd characteristics (form of governance) to name their denomination after (congregationalists and presbyterians come to mind). Others chose doctrinal hallmarks, such as Universalists and Unitarians.

 

[Lanshark]

The Trinity; Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one.

 

[JoyG]

I'm no theologian, but I believe that most of the larger Christian religions (Catholic, Episcopalian, Baptist, etc.) belive that Jesus is God.

Conversely, most of the "born again" Christian sects belive that Jesus is God's son and messenger.

Interesting. That hasn't been my experience at all.

It seems to me that MOST born again christians believe that Jesus IS God.

I have run across a few that don't, but it seems like most share the same views on the subject as the Catholics and Episcopalians.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Interesting. That hasn't been my experience at all.

It seems to me that MOST born again christians believe that Jesus IS God.

I have run across a few that don't, but it seems like most share the same views on the subject as the Catholics and Episcopalians.

I have to say it's surprising me how many Christians on this thread don't believe Jesus is God.. I know there are groups that believe this,I'm just surprised to see so many people saying it at once.

 

[ford family]

Just one more comment, if you continue to read further down on Wikipedia you will come to different forms os UU. My churchs falls under the 3rd one:


Unitarian Universalism;Despite its name, this denomination does not necessarily promote either belief in One God or universal salvation. There is no creed or doctrine that one must affirm to join a Unitarian Universalist congregation. In this respect, it is not a "faith" in the regular sense. The present-day Unitarian Universalist Association resulted from the union in 1961 of Unitarian and Universalist organizations the United States and Canada.[2] Today, Unitarian Universalists generally don't consider themselves to be Christians.[1] Jesus and the Bible are generally treated as exceptional sources of inspiration, along with the holy people and traditions around the world. Unitarian Universalists base their community on a set of Principles and Purposes rather than on a prophet or creed. Notable Unitarian Universalists are Tim Berners-Lee (founder of the world wide web), Pete Seeger, Kurt Vonnegut and Christopher Reeve.

Very interesting. Your explanation is much appreciated.
This must be the first organised "religion" that I have come across that actually appears genuine in its goals and makes sense. I have long believed that the ideas ascribed to JC were inspirational and were a good way to codify how humans should interact with each other and the world around them. The whole "omnipotent power" and "life everafter" stuff comes across as completely ridiculous but your take sounds most promising.

ford family

 

[oxfordcircus]

This Christian doesn't believe that Jesus is God.

I, too, would like to hear more about this view, if you're willing to share.

 

[princesspiglet]

Very interesting. Your explanation is much appreciated.
This must be the first organised "religion" that I have come across that actually appears genuine in its goals and makes sense. I have long believed that the ideas ascribed to JC were inspirational and were a good way to codify how humans should interact with each other and the world around them. The whole "omnipotent power" and "life everafter" stuff comes across as completely ridiculous but your take sounds most promising.

That's why my Dh and I chose this "church". I am agnostic and my DH is pagan. We wanted a place that would accept us as is and not make us conform to any ideals or doctrines. WE plan on raising on DD in this church so she can experience all religions and decide for herself what is best.

If you have a UU church in your area you should check it out for yourself. We are very friendly and would welcome you with open arms. It's more like going to a big family reunion every week and reconnecting with others over common goals and ideals.

 

[JoyG]

I have to say it's surprising me how many Christians on this thread don't believe Jesus is God.. I know there are groups that believe this,I'm just surprised to see so many people saying it at once.

Curious indeed.

I wonder if the christians who don't believe that Jesus is God are breaking from their denomination's official views on the subject or if there really are that many denominations or sects who don't believe in the trinity.

I suspect it's the former, but I'm not sure.

 

[User Name]

I, too, would like to hear more about this view, if you're willing to share.

I'll take a stab. Granted, I am by no means an authority on the subject, however, I do not feel Jesus is God, rather the Son of God. Although, I did grow up Catholic and was taught he was God. Personally, while Jesus is my savior, I believe it to be offensive to God to compare anyone to Him. YMMV.

The VERY FIRST commandment:
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods besides me."

This includes any man, savior or not, and the woman who bore the savior (which some Catholics (and possibly others)) believe she is the co-redemptrix.

Furthermore:
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."

Which, I personally believe INCLUDES crucifixes and other paraphenalia.


"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,"

Which I personally belive includes genuflecting to statues or to to the eucharist (which I believe is also blasphemous).

And to conclude the commandment so as not to take it out of context..
"...punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Again, I can't speak for any one or any church, so don't flame me if you don't agree. I'm simply trying to provide MY personal belief(s).

 

[oxfordcircus]

I'll take a stab.

Thanks for that.

 

[Lassie Lynne]

Which I personally belive includes genuflecting to statues or to to the eucharist (which I believe is also blasphemous).

Are you saying that you do not believe in communion, totally, or just how the Catholic church actually handles it (stating that the wafer/wine is actually the body/blood of christ not a symbol like the Last Supper)? Just curious, no flame .

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

in the bible, it states that Jesus is the son of God, not God himself.

they are two seperate beings.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

That's why my Dh and I chose this "church". I am agnostic and my DH is pagan. We wanted a place that would accept us as is and not make us conform to any ideals or doctrines. WE plan on raising on DD in this church so she can experience all religions and decide for herself what is best.

If you have a UU church in your area you should check it out for yourself. We are very friendly and would welcome you with open arms. It's more like going to a big family reunion every week and reconnecting with others over common goals and ideals.

that sounds like a great church. i should look for one around here.

 

[goofygirl]

I was actually attracted to UU- liked the liberalism, the openess and the social issues involvement, but I ran into problems: the closest UU churches to me were not very close at all, and I also desired something with a little more history and tradition. So I landed in an Episcopal church 5 minutes from home and I love it there.

Back on topic-

Regarding saints- it is my understanding that religions that have saints in them *do not worship* the saints, but they ask God for help "through" the saints, they ask that the saints *intercede*, i.e., to "ask God" to help. Same with Jesus- he's an intercessor too. Most, if not all the prayers in my prayer book ask God to do this and that "*through* our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[User Name]

Are you saying that you do not believe in communion, totally, or just how the Catholic church actually handles it (stating that the wafer/wine is actually the body/blood of christ not a symbol like the Last Supper)? Just curious, no flame .

Gotta tell you... my post-Catholic School spiritual growth has been from varied sources - my purpose is to TRY and become a better person and Christian. That being said, I am probably not the best "source" for any denominational Christian teachings. So, take my ramblings for what they're worth.

Many times, it is very difficult to "re-learn" something that 12 years of Catholic school has imbedded into me. Not bashing Catholicism, but for me, I don't find it a good fit.

All that being said, my goal is to combine fact and logic with my spiritual beliefs. Jesus (Yashua) was a religious Jew and rabbi. IMHO, many of the large Christian denominations have fallen away from what Jesus himself learned and taught, and have morphed into something different. One of the biggest examples I can think of off hand is the Sabbath. God's commandment to keep the Sabbath holy, in my belief, is being broken every week when most Christian churches celebrate on Sunday. Jesus' Sabbath started sundown Friday and lasted until sundown Saturday. Therefore, by celebrating the sabbath on Sunday, we are "technically" breaking one of the commandments. In my opinion, just like we are "technically" breaking the idolitry commandment by giving special meaning to crucifixes.

I know you didn't ask for all that, but I hope it helps clear up my thought process.

Anyhow, my Catholic upbringing tells me that the wine is transformed into Jesus' blood and the bread is transformed into Jesus' body. (Actually, I think there's a more specific term, but it escapes me right now... transfigured? trans...something) My adult self-learning tells me that the bread and wine were symbolic - but symbolic as part of the Sader that was held as the "Last Supper". So, I'm torn. I would tend to believe that it is not trans...whatevered into the body/blood of Jesus because it would be idolizing something that is not (of) God.

 

[oxfordcircus]

(Actually, I think there's a more specific term, but it escapes me right now... transfigured? trans...something)

transubstantiation?

 

[jimmiej]

in the bible, it states that Jesus is the son of God, not God himself.

they are two seperate beings.

Not exactly.

John 1

1 In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He existed in the beginning with God.
3 God created everything through him,
and nothing was created except through him.
4 The Word gave life to everything that was created,
and his life brought light to everyone.

 

[3princesses4us]

in the bible, it states that Jesus is the son of God, not God himself.

they are two seperate beings.

Not according to my Bible. It states that "I and the Father are one" and "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father." I am paraphrasing as best I can remember. JimmieJ, can you help with the actual verses?

 

[SunFloridaDisney]

Regarding saints- it is my understanding that religions that have saints in them *do not worship* the saints, but they ask God for help "through" the saints, they ask that the saints *intercede*, i.e., to "ask God" to help.

That is correct.