Is Facebook too Pervasive and Important?

[Scurvy]

Remember, the situation op is referring to involves young kids. Sure you guys know the dangers of social pages and web information. A 12 year old who doesn't realize that those fb postings are not her best friend but instead some classmates playing a trick on her, is not "creating" drama, it's very real to her and to just assume she would "have drama" in her life regardless is seriously incorrect.

Since Facebook rules prohibit 12 year olds from having accounts, this shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully parents will know if their 13 year olds are able to use Facebook responsibly, and they will make the decision of whether to allow the child to have account based on that.

Facebook is a tool. If used properly, it is great. If misused, it can be yet another place where bullies target people. It doesn't make people bullies, though. Someone who will bully others on Facebook would do it elsewhere, as well. And as others have pointed out, the privacy options on Facebook make it one of the only places where someone can completely control who they interact with. No one can bully you on there unless you let them. If someone isn't mature enough to properly utilize the privacy controls on Facebook, they aren't mature enough to use Facebook at all.

 

[FireDancer]

Yes, you definitely don't have children and it shows.

ford family

I was a 13 year old once. I lived it first hand and have first hand knowledge that someone of that age is capable of creating their own self image and self esteem. There is a reason it is not called other people image or other people esteem. I can remember my parents always telling my brothers and me that someone is always going to make fun of us for something and it doesn't matter, only what we think of ourselves matters. I grew up with that mentality and didn't let things bother me.

I was made fun of just as everyone else has at some point been made fun of. Even as a young kid I was able to laugh at myself. I can go through a laundry list of embarrassing things I did as a kid or adolescent and the things I was made fun of but I was always able to laugh at myself and didn't let what other people said and did get to me.

I think it is unfortunate that more people of all ages, and yes this includes 12 and 13 year olds, don't have the same ability and it is quite telling based on the reactions here sometimes who doesn't have it. It comes up on threads like this and certain other topics where people come across as having very fragile egos or tie their self esteem to what other people think (or have children that do). These people are making for a society where people have to be overly PC because they might just hurt their little snowflake's fragile little ego or self worth. Sometimes I think it is an epidemic.

Of course this is just my opinion, anyone else is free to disagree.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I was a 13 year old once. I lived it first hand and have first hand knowledge that someone of that age is capable of creating their own self image and self esteem. There is a reason it is not called other people image or other people esteem. I can remember my parents always telling my brothers and me that someone is always going to make fun of us for something and it doesn't matter, only what we think of ourselves matters. I grew up with that mentality and didn't let things bother me.

I was made fun of just as everyone else has at some point been made fun of. Even as a young kid I was able to laugh at myself. I can go through a laundry list of embarrassing things I did as a kid or adolescent and the things I was made fun of but I was always able to laugh at myself and didn't let what other people said and did get to me.

I think it is unfortunate that more people of all ages, and yes this includes 12 and 13 year olds, don't have the same ability and it is quite telling based on the reactions here sometimes who doesn't have it. It comes up on threads like this and certain other topics where people come across as having very fragile egos or tie their self esteem to what other people think (or have children that do). These people are making for a society where people have to be overly PC because they might just hurt their little snowflake's fragile little ego or self worth. Sometimes I think it is an epidemic.

Of course this is just my opinion, anyone else is free to disagree.

The sword cuts both ways.

I think this same society has just as many people that can't be concerned with others or common courtesy. Your perspective may vary according to what you bump up against. The case of the dying 7 year old girl being taunted by her neighbors comes to mind, that had some cyber bullying involved as well.

I agree bullying has been around since the dawn of time. I enjoy technology. But I do think however, the cyber aspect of bullying adds a new dimension.

 

[bicker]

But I do think however, the cyber aspect of bullying adds a new dimension.

New dimensions aren't unexpected. Dimensions (as it were) come and go. There have always been ways that some in society intimidate others. Cavemen apparently carried around clubs that they used to clobber those that they wished to intimidate... I'm glad that mechanism is no longer in style. Every generation we lose a few and gain a couple, but the net result has been very consistently a downward trend in the long-run as society has become more compassionate.

 

[No.17CherryTreeLane]

It is the Senior Citizens of our family who seem to be hooked on facebook.
Especially the women -- my mother, MIL, Aunts - all in their 70's, are completely smitten with the ability to stay in touch, chat in real time, share pics, etc. And the whole "friend" thing makes them as nervous and giggly as school girls. My mom wanted to know if it was appropriate to "friend" an old high school boyfriend even though she's been married for 50 years. Um, yes Mom, it's OK. Friending is very serious business, apparently. Anyway, Facebook makes them happy and helps them spread family gossip even faster than before, so for them, at their age, Facebook has been a very good thing.

 

[OceanAnnie]

New dimensions aren't unexpected. Dimensions (as it were) come and go. There have always been ways that some in society intimidate others. Cavemen apparently carried around clubs that they used to clobber those that they wished to intimidate... I'm glad that mechanism is no longer in style. Every generation we lose a few and gain a couple, but the net result has been very consistently a downward trend in the long-run as society has become more compassionate.

Bullying is intimating. It is the proverbial clobbering over the head.

 

[bicker]

Indeed. That was my point.

 

[shortbun]

Indeed, 'the genie can not be put back in the bottle.' I think Facebook is an addiction for many, many people. I also think it's dangerous and creates a boundaryless society for those who participate. No one in my home participates. My friends who have encouraged me to create a page have met with a stone wall; I am resolute about not being a Facebook junkie. I already frequent this site and another vacation oriented site; I AM a vacation junkie and wear it proudly on my sleeve. I have told several grownups that I think Facebook is evil and I have had many people come back to me to give me props for the warning citing the troubles they have experienced. My own brother had to take out a restraining order against a stranger that reached him via a common friend's page. At my son's school last year, three 6th grade girls bullied other girls about their clothes and hair on Facebook until their parents were called in and it stopped. I would think these young bullies found safety in their faceless posts; ironic that they were using 'Face'book. My girlfriend is being stalked by her brother's former wife on Facebook. She told me yesterday at lunch that she is considering shutting her page down to get rid of this unwanted pest. I read on these boards all the time about people crossing boundaries on Facebook-adulturous relationships begun on Facebook - marriages ruined because an old girlfriend was able to flirt and tempt or the other way around. Grownups should take a stand and set a good example for their children. Facebook is a growing weed, the poison ivy of our society. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

[shortbun]

Indeed. That was my point.

Well, these Facebook bullies might not be so brave it they were facing the other guy with the same club. I thought those clubs were to defend oneself against the wild animals, hunt game and bring home the bacon, so to speak.

 

[bicker]

Well, these Facebook bullies might not be so brave it they were facing the other guy with the same club.

You don't think the trade-off of in-person intimidation, with its risk of both emotional and physical harm, for remote intimidation, with its risk of the same emotional harm but without the risk of physical harm, is a positive one?

 

[FireDancer]

The sword cuts both ways.

I think this same society has just as many people that can't be concerned with others or common courtesy. Your perspective may vary according to what you bump up against. The case of the dying 7 year old girl being taunted by her neighbors comes to mind, that had some cyber bullying involved as well.

I agree bullying has been around since the dawn of time. I enjoy technology. But I do think however, the cyber aspect of bullying adds a new dimension.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive though. I think there is a big difference between treating society with kid gloves and not caring at all about other people at all.

I also think far too often the bully card is thrown out there for things are aren't bullying. Every time one person makes fun of another person, no matter their age, it is not bullying. Before I consider something bullying it has to reach an abnormal level that is much more then some postings on Facebook or a joke or two at someone's expense. This is the fragile ego syndrome I am talking about. Everyone will be made fun of for something. I have been, I bet you have been, and probably with rare exception everyone else reading this has been. As long as it doesn't degrade to an extreme (which does happen but not in every case) it isn't all that hard to just laugh at yourself and brush it off, at least I don't find it to be and I didn't as a kid either.

The 7 year old case is appalling but it is also an outlier and not a normal case at all.

 

[bicker]

I also think far too often the bully card is thrown out there for things are aren't bullying. Every time one person makes fun of another person, no matter their age, it is not bullying. Before I consider something bullying it has to reach an abnormal level that is much more then some postings on Facebook or a joke or two at someone's expense.

Yes, good point. It is a matter of relative power. As long as the insult-er and the insult-ee have comparable power (in all the relevant ways that word can be applicable), then you're correct that it is not bullying. As soon as there is an appreciable difference in power, and there is perceived harm on the part of the insult-ee, then it is bullying.

As long as it doesn't degrade to an extreme

That's an arbitrary criterion. Often, things don't look "extreme" from the outside. Since bullying is mostly psychological, what it looks like from the outside is practically irrelevant.

 

[Mrs. Charming]

I think FB is breeding a generation of self important attention seekers.

Yep. Budding and current narcissists. I know there are many lovely, normal people on FB. However, just dealing with immediate and extended family on FB made me sick.

I think FB is like an enabler for bullies of all ages.

 

[FireDancer]

That's an arbitrary criterion. Often, things don't look "extreme" from the outside. Since bullying is mostly psychological, what it looks like from the outside is practically irrelevant.

Well, there is no way to assign and exact value to it. It's one of those I know it when I see it things.

As for how things look from the inside vs outside, that is where it is up to each of us to have a little thicker skin. I think that if we have thick skin and the ability to shrug off criticism that arbitrary line for the extreme would be moved down the line to the right. The thing I don't like is that line being moved more and more left towards normal and away from extreme. I have noticed this to be more and more the case lately.

One of my favorite sayings is that we can't control what other people do to us or treat us but we can always control how we react to it (again yes, even at 13). Just concentrate on that last part and things won't bother you (the general you) so easily and only things that really have become extreme will be seen (or felt) as extreme.

JMO of course we can agree to disagree.

 

[jrmasm]

It's interesting to me that the people with the strongest opinions about the evils of Facebook don't have accounts.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive though. I think there is a big difference between treating society with kid gloves and not caring at all about other people's feelings.

I also think far too often the bully card is thrown out there for things are aren't bullying. Every time one person makes fun of another person, no matter their age, it is not bullying. Before I consider something bullying it has to reach an abnormal level that is much more then some postings on Facebook or a joke or two at someone's expense. This is the fragile ego syndrome I am talking about. Everyone will be made fun of for something. I have been, I bet you have been, and probably with rare exception everyone else reading this has been. As long as it doesn't degrade to an extreme (which does happen but not in every case) it isn't all that hard to just laugh at yourself and brush it off, at least I don't find it to be.

The 7 year old case is appalling but it is also an outlier and not a normal case at all.

You do realize that an "abnormal level" is going to be different for each and every person. Some people can ignore with grace, some can laugh off just about anything that is said, and some take everything that is said very, very personally--especially at 13.

You can't just say "well everybody ought to be just like me and laugh it off". Everyone is NOT you and they can't be you or be like you. And there are 100 million different reason why they are not like you. You can't just assume that they should be.


I think you have forgotten what being 13 feels like.

 

[FireDancer]

You do realize that an "abnormal level" is going to be different for each and every person. Some people can ignore with grace, some can laugh off just about anything that is said, and some take everything that is said very, very personally--especially at 13.

You can't just say "well everybody ought to be just like me and laugh it off". Everyone is NOT you and they can't be you or be like you. And there are 100 million different reason why they are not like you. You can't just assume that they should be.


I think you have forgotten what being 13 feels like.

If they do they do, regardless of their age I think it is unfortunate that others have to tip toe around their fragile little selves.

But, it is what it is. I can't change it, I'm just voicing my opinion which anyone is welcome to disagree with. I also learned young that everyone doesn't have to share your opinion.

 

[bicker]

Well, there is no way to assign and exact value to it. It's one of those I know it when I see it things.

Why do you get to determine that?

Seriously, we're talking about interactions between people, that result in questions of whether something should intervene or not. In that context, it isn't right for it to be subject to "I know it when I see it". It's okay to have that sort of arbitrariness within one's own life, as a reflection of one's own decisions, but not with regard to interactions with other people.

As for how things look from the inside vs outside, that is where it is up to each of us to have a little thicker skin.

No, that's a rationalization for attempting to assert that everyone should kowtow to the way you want things to be. People could have a "thick skin" but still find something harmful, yet you could still claim that the person should have a "thicker skin" because you personally don't want to integrate consideration for those other folks into the way society operates.

As Dana Carvey's Church Lady would say, "How conveeeeeenient."

One of my favorite sayings is that we can't control what other people do to us or treat us but we can always control how we react to it (again yes, even at 13).

That is a great perspective to hold, however it does not, in any way, excuse other people from bullying you, offending you, insulting you, or harming you.

 

[luvsJack]

If they do they do, regardless of their age I think it is unfortunate that others have to tip toe around their fragile little selves.

But, it is what it is. I can't change it, I'm just voicing my opinion which anyone is welcome to disagree with. I also learned young that everyone doesn't have to share your opinion.

Not saying mean, hurtful things or making someone feel afraid is NOT tip toeing around them.

 

[Scurvy]

Indeed, 'the genie can not be put back in the bottle.' I think Facebook is an addiction for many, many people. I also think it's dangerous and creates a boundaryless society for those who participate. No one in my home participates. My friends who have encouraged me to create a page have met with a stone wall; I am resolute about not being a Facebook junkie. I already frequent this site and another vacation oriented site; I AM a vacation junkie and wear it proudly on my sleeve. I have told several grownups that I think Facebook is evil and I have had many people come back to me to give me props for the warning citing the troubles they have experienced. My own brother had to take out a restraining order against a stranger that reached him via a common friend's page. At my son's school last year, three 6th grade girls bullied other girls about their clothes and hair on Facebook until their parents were called in and it stopped. I would think these young bullies found safety in their faceless posts; ironic that they were using 'Face'book. My girlfriend is being stalked by her brother's former wife on Facebook. She told me yesterday at lunch that she is considering shutting her page down to get rid of this unwanted pest. I read on these boards all the time about people crossing boundaries on Facebook-adulturous relationships begun on Facebook - marriages ruined because an old girlfriend was able to flirt and tempt or the other way around. Grownups should take a stand and set a good example for their children. Facebook is a growing week, the poison ivy of our society. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Regarding the bolded - There are many things that people can become addicted to, from gambling or alcohol to shopping or Facebook. Certainly, if someone feels that Facebook would take up an inordinate amount of their time, it's wise to avoid that temptation. But that isn't so much a problem with Facebook itself, at least not for most people. The same thing could happen with any online social network or message board, or any number of other things completely unrelated to the internet.

The other problems you mentioned are all easily avoided with proper use of privacy settings. You can actually set your account so that no one can send you Friend Requests and only your friends can send messages, and you can block specific individuals from interacting with you at all. It is possible to use Facebook without ever encountering any of the problems you listed in your post. That doesn't mean anyone has to use Facebook, of course - it isn't for everyone - but you don't have to avoid Facebook in order to avoid having those problems.