Is DVC messing with availability?

[crisi]

Thanks and you seem to be incredibly knowledgeable. The problem I am having is that at the first day of the 11 month booking, I have the option to book plus 7. So I have control of a certain room for the period until the next morning at 8 am. The fact that the room was available for me to book at 11 months automatically makes it available for the next seven days, to me alone. They could not allow me to make the booking of the first day if the seven days following were not available. Do you think this is incorrect? 11 months plus 7.

That makes sense if Disney had to follow the same rules. But they don't for purposes of maintaining and running the resort. They need to be able to set aside those rooms ahead of the 11+7 month window. And they can because there is some undeclared inventory at every resort to enable that.

You do want the resorts maintained, don't you?

 

[beer dave]

That makes sense if Disney had to follow the same rules. But they don't for purposes of maintaining and running the resort. They need to be able to set aside those rooms ahead of the 11+7 month window. And they can because there is some undeclared inventory at every resort to enable that.

You do want the resorts maintained, don't you?

Thats a silly question that I already answered. Take the inventory from the available bookings as opposed to taking it from inventory not yet available.

 

[crisi]

Thats a silly question that I already answered. Take the inventory from the available bookings as opposed to taking it from inventory not yet available.

If all room types are the same, that makes sense. But they have to maintain some specific room categories. You said there was no inventory available in your room type for your night. For that room type, there is seldom available inventory right at eleven months, because there are so few of those rooms.

 

[supersnoop]

You clearly don't understand the 11 month booking process. I won't explain it to you, but if I book the exact 11 month out date, I automatically have the option to book 7 more days until the end of the current day in which I booked the one day. The room could never have be booked.

*except in the case of fixed weeks. But those aren't available at AKV.

 

[ziravan]

1. Adding a day at 11 months plus 1 day isn't a usual transaction. 1 or both CM might have thought that it's not avail because it's outside the 11 month booking window. It's possible that it took the third person to figure out the rules of what you were asking.

This is on the realm of needing to consult the rule book.

2. I disagree with your presumption that MS has to, or should have to, wait until rooms are in play to pull them for routine service.

If DVC had decided say, to pull an AKV studio for some routine maintenance, then they'd have to set a date to do so outside the booking window. IF they had decided 6 months ago that they'd pull an AKV studio out for maintence starting on Oct 11, then that would explain this as well.

They would likely only do this during times when people aren't normally walking reservations and you'd only notice it if its a very limited category and you just happened to overlap book into the last avail room in the pulled period.

So. Something unusual enough it's not routinely noticed by members and unusual enough for a supervisor to override in the spirit of customer service.

3. One of the above explanations sound much more reasonable than to assume that DVC is stealing rooms from use at 11 months for CRO. Occam's Razor says to me that the conspiracy angle is the least likely explanation.

 

[Minniesgal]

You clearly don't understand the 11 month booking process. I won't explain it to you, but if I book the exact 11 month out date, I automatically have the option to book 7 more days until the end of the current day in which I booked the one day. The room could never have be booked.

Unless the room had been taken out the booking system for planned maintenance

 

[wdrl]

No they don't. Because that 3% isn't declared inventory so that 3% doesn't come under the same booking rules. Just like the rooms at the Poly that aren't yet DVC inventory are not subject to the booking rules.

At AKV, 100% of the DVC accommodations have been declared for the DVC Member inventory. Thus, all DVC villas at AKV are subject to the same booking rules.

DVD is required to keep at least 2% of AKV's total points, and I estimate they own slightly more than 3%, or roughly 230,000+ points. According to the master declaration, DVD has the same rights and obligations as general public owners. Like any other owner, DVD can use its points however it wants, but is still restricted to the same booking rules as other members. In theory, DVD competes on an equal basis with general public owners and if it can reserve a concierge club level villa using the standard booking rules, than it has every right to do so.

Separate and independent of DVD is DVCMC. As the managing entity of DVC, its DVCMC that decides when to take inventory out of commission.

Interestingly, in early July 2015 filed a Notice of Commencement for a soft goods renovation at AKV Jambo House (see http://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/re...se-villas-scheduled-for-soft-goods-renovation). Supposedly, the project should be completed by November 30, 2015. DVCMC could be taking inventory out of commission while renovations are being undertaken.

Although this year's soft goods renovation shouldn't apply to a September 2016 booking period, it points out there are several variables going on that could impact availability.

 

[crisi]

Thanks wdrl, you explained it in far more detail than I could have.

 

[Sammie]

Being aware of occurrences in a contractual situation and questioning what may be going on with a group of piers has nothing to do with trust--- it has to do with business. I didn't buy DVC for a personal relationship with Disney. I bought it for a business relationship. In a business relationship, you need to keep an eye on all parties.

Being aware of the contract and being suspicious of a conspiracy are entirely two different things. I don't think any of us even Dean know ever nuance of booking with DVC therefore there has to be an element of trust or you will never be satisfied with the product.

As others explained there are plenty of reasons, including human error, that could be at play without them trying to be shady. My point is based on what you shared I don't think you have enough evidence to prove they are messing with availability.

 

[CarolMN]

FWIW, I think this may have just been a training issue - newer CMs who didn't understand the process whereby we can add to an existing reservtion prior to the 11 month window opening for the additonal nights wanted (up to 7). Once the OP asked for a Supervisor, the misunderstanding was cleared up and the additional night was added.

There are quite a few nuances to the booking rules that aren't always completely understood until the CMs (and we owners) get some experience. I would much rather assume training issue than "shady" goings on.

 

[beer dave]

*except in the case of fixed weeks. But those aren't available at AKV

At AKV, 100% of the DVC accommodations have been declared for the DVC Member inventory. Thus, all DVC villas at AKV are subject to the same booking rules.

DVD is required to keep at least 2% of AKV's total points, and I estimate they own slightly more than 3%, or roughly 230,000+ points. According to the master declaration, DVD has the same rights and obligations as general public owners. Like any other owner, DVD can use its points however it wants, but is still restricted to the same booking rules as other members. In theory, DVD competes on an equal basis with general public owners and if it can reserve a concierge club level villa using the standard booking rules, than it has every right to do so.

this is exactly what I was trying to get across.

Separate and independent of DVD is DVCMC. As the managing entity of DVC, its DVCMC that decides when to take inventory out of commission.

Interestingly, in early July 2015 filed a Notice of Commencement for a soft goods renovation at AKV Jambo House (see http://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/re...se-villas-scheduled-for-soft-goods-renovation). Supposedly, the project should be completed by November 30, 2015. DVCMC could be taking inventory out of commission while renovations are being undertaken.

This is what I was hoping would be done out of available inventory. They would have to schedule the renovations more than 11 months in advance to take them out prior to the 11 month window. In the case listed, it was "noticed" 5 months prior to planned completion-- who really knows how long ahead it was planned.

Thanks for the info!

Although this year's soft goods renovation shouldn't apply to a September 2016 booking period, it points out there are several variables going on that could impact availability.

 

[beer dave]

I clearly don't know how to work the quote feature-- it must be beyond obvious....just expand the above quote to see my responses!

 

[Dean]

My guess it's likely that the CM didn't know how to do it rather than it wasn't available for 11 months plus one day when one already had the additional day. Generally speaking, the items should have been available for 11 months points. However, there are situations where the inventory might get adjusted and not be available and in most cases, we'd never know it was an issue. As noted, this could happen for maintenance or related issues such as to cover refurbishment needs though the latter would be unlikely for the concierge. It could also happen due to undeclared inventory though again, not applicable for AKV since it's completely declared. It can happen for breakage even at 11 months out but again, unlikely for this booking category. And as noted, it could be booked with points owned by DVD or traded by members. The only options that truly explain this exact situation are maintenance and lack of understanding on the CM part. Historically my info suggests that DVC isn't sitting there at the second the booking window opens booking up the rooms before people can call in or taking options offline to facilitate this but we don't know that for certain. I'm pretty sure they could even close the lounge and do away with the category going forward.

I'd have to say that Disney can't win when it comes to refurbishment planning issue. If they don't plan ahead, we get a lot of complaints and if they have planned ahead, we also get complaints. No wonder they've become calloused to those issues. Ultimately even the most educated member for whom DVC is more than perfect and we all agreed has a check in every possible category saying buying is a good idea. has put a certain amount of risk and trust into Disney and DVC. However, those that don't educate themselves or take additional risks with things like debt, counting on perks, etc; take a LOT more risk than some others do.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Of course they mess with availability. They take rooms out of service for planned maintenance, for instance. If once a year they schedule a deep clean of every year, and they are doing it for those hard to book Value rooms - they'd have to pull those from inventory before the eleven month window opens, otherwise those rooms would never get a deep clean between refurbs. And if I were managing the timeshare, I'd sure want to pull every room from service AT LEAST once a year to do a deep clean and run maintenance through the room. And if I'm staying in a timeshare, I'd want the same. One or two days out of service to steam clean the mattress, shampoo the carpets, wipe down the furniture where it normally doesn't get dusted.

And I bet your basic DVC booking agent has no clue how the back end of this works for logistics like this - they don't need to - they need to know how to book and cancel.

Where does this information of taking a room out of service once a year for a deep clean come from? If sounds good, but personally Im surprised to hear that they schedule a deep clean more than 11 months in advance. There's virtually nothing that they manage to schedule that far ahead of time.

On my stay at VWL in Sept maintenance came around to inspect the room. I chatted with the gentleman for a bit and was told that there they do Quarterly checks on the rooms, replace air filters then, check all lights and take care of any repairs. He was checking the refrigerator, drains etc. Really all systems and the condition of the room. Later that day I came in on the ground floor and they were running fans in a room that you could tell they cleaned the carpet and did a little painting of some sort in - I assumed a touch up. I'm just inclined to think that they do these "cleanings" without specifically scheduling specific rooms out of service. When I asked about room maintenance the only info given was the quarterly and nothing of an planned annual.

 

[crisi]

Where does this information of taking a room out of service once a year for a deep clean come from? If sounds good, but personally Im surprised to hear that they schedule a deep clean more than 11 months in advance. There's virtually nothing that they manage to schedule that far ahead of time.

On my stay at VWL in Sept maintenance came around to inspect the room. I chatted with the gentleman for a bit and was told that there they do Quarterly checks on the rooms, replace air filters then, check all lights and take care of any repairs. He was checking the refrigerator, drains etc. Really all systems and the condition of the room. Later that day I came in on the ground floor and they were running fans in a room that you could tell they cleaned the carpet and did a little painting of some sort in - I assumed a touch up. I'm just inclined to think that they do these "cleanings" without specifically scheduling specific rooms out of service. When I asked about room maintenance the only info given was the quarterly and nothing of an planned annual.

It doesn't, that's why I said "for instance, a deep clean."

 

[DebbieB]

If DVC was doing something shady, they probably would not do it for mid September dates, one of the slowest times of the year. More likely a training issue or a system glitch.

 

[drusba]

My personal sense is that the OP's issue was likely more MS employee's not knowing what they can do rather than an attempt to withhold rooms. Disney, as noted, is subject to the same 11 month reservation window as the members when reserving rooms covered by the percentage of the resort Disney owns or gets via other means such as trade outs or foreclosures. It can set aside room space for maintrenance and refurbs even beyond the 11 month window, a factor BCV owners may have noticed for this year when rooms tended to fill somewhat quicker than prior years until in August when BCV suddenly became available during Sep to Dec because rooms were put back into service because this year's refurb was changed to next year. BCV owners are, of course, seeing the same somewhat limited availability issue now for 2016 reservations due to the scheduled refurb for 2016.

However, Disney's ability to reserve 11 months out does give it at least the opportunity to do some predatory reserving. Nothing appears to require it to actually have renters to put on a reservation at 11 months out and thus it can reserve something 11 months out and later add a renter. Moreover, the same-as-member rule means it can reserve any size rooms for any season and it is not required to spread its reservation time throughout the year or throughout the various size rooms. In other words, it could, for example, at exactly 11 months out, reserve all the AKV club level rooms for Christmas, and then later find renters for the rooms, because its ownership level in the resort obviously gives it enough points to be able do that. It is possible its fiducuary obligation to the members could be construed to prevent Disney from doing that but there is nothing specific in the official documents to prevent it.

There is one occurrence I found a few years back that indicated to me that Disney may have been trying to avoid the 11 month window rule and at the same time do some predatory reserving. At exactly 11 months out from the Sunday before Thanksgiving, I went online to see availability for AKV rooms for Thanksgiving week. Club level studios and 2BRs were already missing the Sun through Thurs, an understandable probability because there are so few rooms and you can reserve up to 7 nights from date of arrival. However, what I found strange was that the Jambo GV's were shown as full for the Wednesday and Thursday of Thanksgiving week but the Sun, Mon and Tues were open. Two thoughts occurred to me: (a) it is highly unlikely that any GV's would be designated, 11 months in advance, to be out service for Thanksgiving night and the night before; and (b) it is not possible for member reservations to fill that Wed and Thurs at 11 months out from the Sun unless the Sun, Mon and Tues were also shown as filled. In other words, my suspicion was that Disney was taking GV's for its own rental use for those two nights before the 11 month window even opened. I sent emails to MS and to DVC Member Satisfaction asking for an explanation. I received back the typical we have received your email and response will be coming later. No response ever came. I have checked other holiday times for possible similar occurrences since I sent my emails but have not seen a similar occurrence at any other time.

 

[beer dave]

My personal sense is that the OP's issue was likely more MS employee's not knowing what they can do rather than an attempt to withhold rooms. Disney, as noted, is subject to the same 11 month reservation window as the members when reserving rooms covered by the percentage of the resort Disney owns or gets via other means such as trade outs or foreclosures. It can set aside room space for maintrenance and refurbs even beyond the 11 month window, a factor BCV owners may have noticed for this year when rooms tended to fill somewhat quicker than prior years until in August when BCV suddenly became available during Sep to Dec because rooms were put back into service because this year's refurb was changed to next year. BCV owners are, of course, seeing the same somewhat limited availability issue now for 2016 reservations due to the scheduled refurb for 2016.

However, Disney's ability to reserve 11 months out does give it at least the opportunity to do some predatory reserving. Nothing appears to require it to actually have renters to put on a reservation at 11 months out and thus it can reserve something 11 months out and later add a renter. Moreover, the same-as-member rule means it can reserve any size rooms for any season and it is not required to spread its reservation time throughout the year or throughout the various size rooms. In other words, it could, for example, at exactly 11 months out, reserve all the AKV club level rooms for Christmas, and then later find renters for the rooms, because its ownership level in the resort obviously gives it enough points to be able do that. It is possible its fiducuary obligation to the members could be construed to prevent Disney from doing that but there is nothing specific in the official documents to prevent it.

There is one occurrence I found a few years back that indicated to me that Disney may have been trying to avoid the 11 month window rule and at the same time do some predatory reserving. At exactly 11 months out from the Sunday before Thanksgiving, I went online to see availability for AKV rooms for Thanksgiving week. Club level studios and 2BRs were already missing the Sun through Thurs, an understandable probability because there are so few rooms and you can reserve up to 7 nights from date of arrival. However, what I found strange was that the Jambo GV's were shown as full for the Wednesday and Thursday of Thanksgiving week but the Sun, Mon and Tues were open. Two thoughts occurred to me: (a) it is highly unlikely that any GV's would be designated, 11 months in advance, to be out service for Thanksgiving night and the night before; and (b) it is not possible for member reservations to fill that Wed and Thurs at 11 months out from the Sun unless the Sun, Mon and Tues were also shown as filled. In other words, my suspicion was that Disney was taking GV's for its own rental use for those two nights before the 11 month window even opened. I sent emails to MS and to DVC Member Satisfaction asking for an explanation. I received back the typical we have received your email and response will be coming later. No response ever came. I have checked other holiday times for possible similar occurrences since I sent my emails but have not seen a similar occurrence at any other time.

This is what I was thinking was occurring...No way the rooms could have been booked at 11 months and a day or two with out the 11 month day being booked. I knew there was someone who had written a similar experience-- thank you.

The reason I dismissed the idea of inexperienced MS is because it was two different people on 2 different calls.

 

[disneynutz]

The reality is that things happen and we have no way to know or prove anything. I do know that Disney comes up with rooms some how when a VIP wants to book a stay on short notice and on a couple of occasions they have found rooms for us when inventory and other CM's have told us that we were out of luck.

Bill

 

[EvilDrPorkchop21]

The reality is that things happen and we have no way to know or prove anything. I do know that Disney comes up with rooms some how when a VIP wants to book a stay on short notice and on a couple of occasions they have found rooms for us when inventory and other CM's have told us that we were out of luck.

Bill

Or when new members are buying direct and all of a sudden every resort is available to book for your first time 30 days out. I bought direct in the summer and just assumed short term availability was plentiful given my guide was able to book any resort I wanted for the dates I needed.