Is DVC Budget Board approved?

[labdogs42]

If you really like Beach Club it would be best to get it as your home resort; my DH loves it for the proximity to Epcot restaurants and we've been able to get it with a 7mth window but it is one that is harder due to the smaller size of the resort.

We own at BWV and that also has a great location and with home advantage we can book standard view so it stretches the points. You can probably get BWV with a 7mth window but I think getting standard view might be difficult.

Beach Club or BWV would be high on my list. I love that location. Does Disney give tours of all the DVC locations or only the newest ones? I'd love to see each of them before I pick my home resort (if I do this).

 

[crisi]

This is a great thread. I've always held DVC up at something we were absolutely, definitely going to do one day when we could afford it. But reading though, I'm not actually sure it's right for us.

For one thing, it's just DH and myself. Now things may change, but at the moment we're planning on remaining child free. Another thing is that while I normally adore hotels, Disney is actually the exception to that. When I'm at Disney, I don't want to be in the hotel, I want to be out and about Disney World! Lastly, while I love Disney more than anything, I don't want to spend every vacation there. It's a great big world and there's so much to see. Hmm... It will be a while before we face this choice, but I am thinking it may not be for us.

I always thought it would be a for sure thing, but maybe not... Thanks for all the great thoughts and opinions!

The hotel thing is something else to consider. DVC isn't a hotel, its a timeshare. Daily housekeeping is not included (you can buy it, but its expensive). Your towels do not get changed daily. If you don't like your room, switching will cost you a "room switch fee" (if they choose to charge it, they don't always....and if there is another room for you to switch to - they operate at near 100% occupancy year round).

Most members find these things to be something they don't mind, even enjoy not having some in their room every day to make the bed. But its something more to understand about how it works.

 

[1osfan]

Those are all good points but you are comparing extremes..POP vs BLT. Naturally you have to include not just the cost, but what you are getting. With discounts, I thought BLT was more in the realm of 16K. An easy way to buy at MUCH lower prices is through resale. At OKW you can stay for a week in the summer for 106 points. You can get resale at OKW for around $80 and you do not need to buy the Disney minimum. I'm not saying DVC is for everyone, or even most..it's a big personal decision..but there are many ways to look at it, not all of them financial.

I completely agree that there are many factors at work here, but the original poster asked about this from the Budget perspective. From a budget perspective, this was what I came up with. If I looked at it from an emotional perspective and left the budget idea out, I would have bought in when I did the walkthrough. The idea of sitting on my balcony or even in my bed or bathtub and watching Wishes along with the beautiful room, the proximity to MK, and the overall luxury and the whole thing, I had to force myself to do the math.

My point was simply that, when looking at the budget side, I'm not sure how much it is financially worth it - which is what most of the current DVC owners have said here. From many other perspectives, it may very well be worth it for you, me, or anyone else.

By the way, I think this thread has been great! I spent a considerable amount of time on the DVC boards when I was considering purchasing and most of the responses were the same. This thread has brought both sides together and has had great respsonses.

 

[janette]

Beach Club or BWV would be high on my list. I love that location. Does Disney give tours of all the DVC locations or only the newest ones? I'd love to see each of them before I pick my home resort (if I do this).

They only have models of the newest ones but if they still have the one at Saratoga it may have the older layout - the decor is different but the layouts are all similar. You can go into the resorts and look around, I love the common rooms at BCV. BWV doesn't really have the common rooms like BCV & VWL.

 

[peyjax]

That's a nice idea but it doesn't work like that. You can only be in control and talk to MS about the points you actually own. Any points rentals are between you and the owner and DVC won't talk to you about them. You also cannot combine your 25pts with rental points to make a single reservation. You'd need to do a point transfer to get control of those points for the UY and you can only do one of these each year.

OK than I have a question. How does it work one when someone needs say 30 points to complete their booking for say a 2 bedroom condo at peak season? That surely is not enough points to just make a one night ressie. Are you forced into purchasing points from Disney if you have no more room to borrow from future years? I had heard about the idea about buying a small contract and renting with it. You are the first person to say it can not be done that way. I was told by someone who had done this that they will transfer the points into your account as long as you own. Of course this has been about 3 years since I researched this. I am not saying your wrong, just wondering!

 

[peyjax]

You'd need to do a point transfer to get control of those points for the UY and you can only do one of these each year.

Just noticed this part as well. So are you saying you can do a point transfer but only once a year. If that is the case than wouldn't it work for those who only go once a year? Of course that would negate the whole reason for buying just for the AP and dining card discount, however it would still be good just so you have control of your reservation instead of someone else. Are there still holes in my theory?

 

[dansyr2514]

I'm also researching this and I was a little confused on the annual dues. Say you purchase a 5o pt resale at SSR...what would you approximate annual dues be?

 

[eliza61]

OK than I have a question. How does it work one when someone needs say 30 points to complete their booking for say a 2 bedroom condo at peak season? That surely is not enough points to just make a one night ressie. Are you forced into purchasing points from Disney if you have no more room to borrow from future years? I had heard about the idea about buying a small contract and renting with it. You are the first person to say it can not be done that way. I was told by someone who had done this that they will transfer the points into your account as long as you own. Of course this has been about 3 years since I researched this. I am not saying your wrong, just wondering!

I think what delmar411 was saying was about combining the reservations into one single one and controlling the rental points.

Let's go with this hypothetical situation.
You want a 2 bedroom at the AKV for 1 week in late August (I think this is peak season). If you want a standard view 2 bedroom you will need 249 points. For whatever reason you only have 219 points and can't borrow.
You could go 2 ways. Arrive on Friday night (8/20) and pay for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday night with your point. If I added correctly that would run you 218 points. Then you would rent the last nights points for Thursday, in this case you need to rent 31 points.

You can rent those points but the owner unfortunately is the only one who can call MS about them. I have never heard of them "transferring" points from one owner to another.
I have done this. In most cases Disney tries hard to accomodate you and make sure you don't have to pack up and move for 1 night but of course it's not a guarantee.

I think this is how I did it.

 

[Tiger926]

I completely agree that there are many factors at work here, but the original poster asked about this from the Budget perspective. From a budget perspective, this was what I came up with. If I looked at it from an emotional perspective and left the budget idea out, I would have bought in when I did the walkthrough. The idea of sitting on my balcony or even in my bed or bathtub and watching Wishes along with the beautiful room, the proximity to MK, and the overall luxury and the whole thing, I had to force myself to do the math.

My point was simply that, when looking at the budget side, I'm not sure how much it is financially worth it - which is what most of the current DVC owners have said here. From many other perspectives, it may very well be worth it for you, me, or anyone else.

By the way, I think this thread has been great! I spent a considerable amount of time on the DVC boards when I was considering purchasing and most of the responses were the same. This thread has brought both sides together and has had great respsonses.

Then I would venture to say that nothing about Disney is 'budget' at all.

There are many definitions to the word budget, so it depends what she was thinking about. I think she was meaning in terms of saving money on the long haul on accommodations, and in that case, DVC is worth it, and can be budget friendly. You will save money on accommodations - as I stated, our dues have gone up less each year (at most 3%) then what our moderate rooms have. Mods used to be $125-$130/night about 8 years ago, and now, they are up to $205/night. That's a lot more than 3%. People need to keep this in mind when considering DVC - room deals and promos are only being offered as the economy is slow. Once it rebounds, then the deals will dry up. Disney has already said that this year, the deals will change. They are already starting to wean people off of deals. So, you can't rely on deals as they come and go. With DVC, once you pay upfront cost, you are done, except for dues, which have a max limit that they can increase by. Like I said, for around the same price as what we were paying, or a few dollars more, we are staying in DVC 1 bed villas for 13nights/14 days. How is that not worth it?

That being said, some people have done numbers on here in which they say they can still do Disney cheaper, but again, you cannot compare a Value resort to DVC. You should only compare to Deluxe, and if staying in a studio, you can compare to moderate, but again, DVC has a kitchenette and balcony, wherease mods do not, so that isn't a true comparison either.

It's interesting how people do their numbers. It's not a good fit for everyone, but you have to make sure you are doing the numbers correctly by including all relevant factors. Comparing to values, is not it, comparing to deals and promos, is not it, as these will totally favour your numbers against DVC.

Good luck, Tiger

 

[Toad_Passenger]

That being said, some people have done numbers on here in which they say they can still do Disney cheaper, but again, you cannot compare a Value resort to DVC. You should only compare to Deluxe, and if staying in a studio, you can compare to moderate, but again, DVC has a kitchenette and balcony, wherease mods do not, so that isn't a true comparison either.

It's interesting how people do their numbers. It's not a good fit for everyone, but you have to make sure you are doing the numbers correctly by including all relevant factors. Comparing to values, is not it, comparing to deals and promos, is not it, as these will totally favour your numbers against DVC.

Good luck, Tiger

Respectfully snipped.

The numbers I run have always been using numbers for a Deluxe resort. It is impossible to anticipate how much regular room rates will increase per year, just as it is impossible to know exactly how the increase/changes in point allocations are going to change. However, even when keeping those numbers in line with previous years, I still can never get a break even point better than 18 years, and that is going through a reseller. Through DVC direct, the break even ends up in the 20+ year region.

People who have taken the plunge obviously love what they have, and I can't blame them (that's why I check it out several times a year!). However when you're looking at that much money upfront, without recouping it for another 18-20 years, it doesn't add up for a lot of people. Major life events could prevent you from reaching that breakeven point, economies change, etc. There are a lot of variables at play, that, for me, leaves this as a less-than-secure route to go.

Again, though, it doesn't stop me from debating with myself over it all the time.

 

[mychicks]

They are renovating OKW starting in the Spring and will add the sofa chairs to the 1BR rooms also. We were able to book a 1br there for our next trip for a family of 5. MS said I could do it, we would just have towels for 4. Not a big deal for us. We always end up doing a load of towels in the wash any way.

The extra bathroom in the 1BR at AKL was great too!

 

[minnie1928]

I'm also researching this and I was a little confused on the annual dues. Say you purchase a 5o pt resale at SSR...what would you approximate annual dues be?

Based on what I remember my monthly payment for dues at SSR to be, I'd estimate that 50 points would be somewhere around $220/year.

 

[nunzia]

I think what delmar411 was saying was about combining the reservations into one single one and controlling the rental points.

Let's go with this hypothetical situation.
You want a 2 bedroom at the AKV for 1 week in late August (I think this is peak season). If you want a standard view 2 bedroom you will need 249 points. For whatever reason you only have 219 points and can't borrow.
You could go 2 ways. Arrive on Friday night (8/20) and pay for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday night with your point. If I added correctly that would run you 218 points. Then you would rent the last nights points for Thursday, in this case you need to rent 31 points.

You can rent those points but the owner unfortunately is the only one who can call MS about them. I have never heard of them "transferring" points from one owner to another.
I have done this. In most cases Disney tries hard to accomodate you and make sure you don't have to pack up and move for 1 night but of course it's not a guarantee.

I think this is how I did it.

You can transfer points to/from another member, but you can only do one a year, so it may be hard to find someone to do this. I am one who bought a small contact (resale OKW 25 points through GMAC) to get in the system 'cheaply' so that I could have an earlier chance to buy VGC and still not need to buy the minimum (although it works financially, while going through trips and points I sure wish I could do an add on) Anyway..those 25 points can get me almost a week at OKW every three years by banking and borrowing. So, it can certainly be worth it to have a small contract. Those points cost me a little over 2K, including closing costs (after you are in the system you don't pay closing costs, so that saved quite a bit on my VGC purchase), with yearly MF of 100.00. So, from now on I can go to WDW forever for 100 a year for the room portion. I think staying a week at OKW one time would almost take care of the initial buy in.
Of course there are alot more budget ways to do anything (bicycle instead of a car anyone?) but the OP needs to compare apples to apples to see if it's worth it. As many have pointed out, if you are happy staying off site or at POP and chasing deals and hoping for pins and such, then DVC isn't for you. Of course if you want to be super budget your big night's entertainment would be a library book read by candlelight. We all justify why we spend what we spend, and there are always much cheaper options to everything in life.

 

[crisi]

Just noticed this part as well. So are you saying you can do a point transfer but only once a year. If that is the case than wouldn't it work for those who only go once a year? Of course that would negate the whole reason for buying just for the AP and dining card discount, however it would still be good just so you have control of your reservation instead of someone else. Are there still holes in my theory?

You have to find another member willing to transfer you those points. DVC has always had this rule (one transfer in or out) but they used to not enforce it. Back then it was easy to get someone to transfer you points. Disney started enforcing the rule a few years ago, and a lot of members don't want to do point transfers out - they'd rather just rent their points - since that then limits them from any other point transfers in or out of their account. So its gotten a lot harder to make this work satisfactorily.

 

[delmar411]

Just noticed this part as well. So are you saying you can do a point transfer but only once a year. If that is the case than wouldn't it work for those who only go once a year? Of course that would negate the whole reason for buying just for the AP and dining card discount, however it would still be good just so you have control of your reservation instead of someone else. Are there still holes in my theory?

It would work but getting transferred points seems to be a bit harder since once it's done then it's done and there is no way for the original 'owner' of the points to then get a points transfer should they need one for whatever reason and they can't get the points back either if payment issues should arise.

I'm not convinced renting points makes great financial sense if you are going to do that long term and still own just a few points, yk? I haven't done a full run down of the rental costs vs buying but rentals usually run approx 2x the yearly maintenance fees per point so it would appear to make sense to purchase your own points. Just running a very simple calculation shows that points (depending on your disc and main fees) will run you 10-12per point per year, this is for people buying in now, not for those that bought in a decade+ ago. And is dependent on you buying directly from DVC not resale. Purchasing resale would bring your pp/py total down more.

 

[delmar411]

I'm also researching this and I was a little confused on the annual dues. Say you purchase a 5o pt resale at SSR...what would you approximate annual dues be?

According to the Timeshare Store, current dues by resort are below and these go up each year.

Bay Lake Tower $3.78
Grand Californian $3.94
Saratoga Springs $4.46
Old Key West $4.87
Animal Kingdom $4.95
Beach Club $5.15
Wilderness Lodge $5.20
Boardwalk $5.36
Hilton Head $5.57
Vero Beach $6.61

 

[Tiger926]

Respectfully snipped.

The numbers I run have always been using numbers for a Deluxe resort. It is impossible to anticipate how much regular room rates will increase per year, just as it is impossible to know exactly how the increase/changes in point allocations are going to change. However, even when keeping those numbers in line with previous years, I still can never get a break even point better than 18 years, and that is going through a reseller. Through DVC direct, the break even ends up in the 20+ year region.

People who have taken the plunge obviously love what they have, and I can't blame them (that's why I check it out several times a year!). However when you're looking at that much money upfront, without recouping it for another 18-20 years, it doesn't add up for a lot of people. Major life events could prevent you from reaching that breakeven point, economies change, etc. There are a lot of variables at play, that, for me, leaves this as a less-than-secure route to go.

Again, though, it doesn't stop me from debating with myself over it all the time.

I am math challenged, but if you are using Deluxe numbers, then you must be missing something in your equation. Deluxe and DVC villa room rates are very high, so when I add my buy-in plus dues, for this year only (you can only do each year that has passed, or the current year, as we don't know how much dues are, nor what room rates will be - you are correct about this), I come to less than $200.00/night for a 1 bedroom. Where in the world are you staying for less than $200.00/night in a deluxe 1 bedroom villa at Disney World. I just priced a moderate for a friend for the summer, and the rates before tax are $205.00/night! I want to know this being the budget board and all!

Seriously, you are correct that there are a lot of variables at play and lots of research is necessary!

Good luck to OP and all others considering this purchase, Tiger

 

[robinb]

According to the Timeshare Store, current dues by resort are below and these go up each year.

Bay Lake Tower $3.78
Grand Californian $3.94
Saratoga Springs $4.46
Old Key West $4.87
Animal Kingdom $4.95
Beach Club $5.15
Wilderness Lodge $5.20
Boardwalk $5.36
Hilton Head $5.57
Vero Beach $6.61

Here is a link to DVC Dues History, including yearly percentage increases:
http://personalpages.tds.net/~rb/DIS/DVC/DVCDuesHistory.htm

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I am math challenged, but if you are using Deluxe numbers, then you must be missing something in your equation. Deluxe and DVC villa room rates are very high, so when I add my buy-in plus dues, for this year only (you can only do each year that has passed, or the current year, as we don't know how much dues are, nor what room rates will be - you are correct about this), I come to less than $200.00/night for a 1 bedroom. Where in the world are you staying for less than $200.00/night in a deluxe 1 bedroom villa at Disney World. I just priced a moderate for a friend for the summer, and the rates before tax are $205.00/night! I want to know this being the budget board and all!

Seriously, you are correct that there are a lot of variables at play and lots of research is necessary!

Good luck to OP and all others considering this purchase, Tiger

I'm not arguing that the nightly rates are WAAYYY better when you use DVC. The problem comes when you have to put the initial lump sum purchase into the spreadsheet. That's where the length of time to reach a break even comes into play. And, as I've said, that is where my hesitation always comes in.

We're a family who likes to pay cash in full for things (now that we're debt-free!). That's a large amount of cash upfront that may or may not payoff 18 years down the road!

 

[robinb]

I'm not arguing that the nightly rates are WAAYYY better when you use DVC. The problem comes when you have to put the initial lump sum purchase into the spreadsheet. That's where the length of time to reach a break even comes into play. And, as I've said, that is where my hesitation always comes in.

We're a family who likes to pay cash in full for things (now that we're debt-free!). That's a large amount of cash upfront that may or may not payoff 18 years down the road!

I never looked at the "break-even point" that many seem to think is important. That's because everyone can calculate it differently. Some people try to include increases on resort rates. Some people try to include increases in dues. Some people even include the amount of money lost in buying DVC v/s investing it instead.

Your real savings appears when you sell your contract. Here is a post that I made 2 1/2 years ago when we sold our OKW contract.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=21486329&postcount=8

We just did this analysis. We bought 230 OKW points in 1997 for $55 per point, or $13000 with closing costs. I just sold for $78 per point. After commission, the ROFR fee and taxes I cleared $2500. However, I also had to pay $7877 in dues over those 10 years. So, my final cost for owning OKW for 10 years was only $5377, or $537 per year or $2.34 per point per year.

That means that my last stay in a GRAND VILLA in January 2006 cost me less than $100 per night. My stay in a SSR studio was about $25 per night.

While it wasn't an investment, it was a hell of a discount!