Is Disney Really Cutting Hours?

[JimmyV]

And the "drink" hours.

A very fair point. Added/lost hours of food, drink and shopping have to be factored in. The problem with "drink" is, it isn't really a unique opportunity. People have to go to the MK if they want to ride Thunder Mountain at night. People have to go to AK if they want to ride Kali at night. But if you want a beer, there are hundreds of places to go whose hours have not been impacted. So the added opportunity to drink at AK has a (pardon the pun), watered down effect.

 

[jade1]

A very fair point. Added/lost hours of food, drink and shopping have to be factored in. The problem with "drink" is, it isn't really a unique opportunity. People have to go to the MK if they want to ride Thunder Mountain at night. People have to go to AK if they want to ride Kali at night. But if you want a beer, there are hundreds of places to go whose hours have not been impacted. So the added opportunity to drink at AK has a (pardon the pun), watered down effect.

But Kali then a beer? Or for the night show? Oh yea.

Maybe that's why we liked it so well.

 

[jade1]

Sorry. I was enjoying Florida's "original tourist destination" (Miami) over the past several days on business and a bit of pleasure. (Man, was it hot.) So I didn't get on my computer all that much.

Currently

Miami "feels like" 103

AK "feels like" 105

 

[tlmadden73]

To me the hours of MK are 9-10 ... anything beyond that is just a bonus as Disney tries to compensate for crowds by staying open longer.

I think people have just gotten used to these late hours from previous years.

Just like free dining .... that is a great bonus that Disney offers, but it isn't a guarantee every year.

People get used to "bonuses" and it raises their expectations beyond what it should be. A bonus is a bonus. Nice to get when you can, but you shouldn't be disappointed when it is no longer there.

 

[JimmyV]

Miami "feels like" 103

Dress like this:

AK "feels like" 105

Dress like this:

 

[jade1]

Dress like this:

Dress like this:

Ha nice.

105 in that? Forget it. Sandals and pray a smidge of water hits you on Kali.

Visit AK tonight instead.

 

[JimmyV]

I think people have just gotten used to these late hours from previous years.

Just like free dining .... that is a great bonus that Disney offers, but it isn't a guarantee every year.

People get used to "bonuses" and it raises their expectations beyond what it should be. A bonus is a bonus. Nice to get when you can, but you shouldn't be disappointed when it is no longer there.

If by "previous years" you mean the summers of 1972 through 2015, well, then, I guess...yeah, people kind of got used to that. At what point does a "bonus" become standard operating procedure, or at what point does standard operating procedure become a bonus? So if the MK started to close every day of the year at 6:00 p.m., with hard ticket and private events every night starting at 7:00, then you would say that the hours after 6:00 have always been "bonus hours"? Exactly which hours are "guaranteed" and which hours have been benevolent bonuses? This is fascinating.

 

[whiporee]

I think Disney is trying to equalize the parks and trying to take some of the pressure off MK. Looking at the numbers (if you beleive the numbers, because they don't come directly from Disney) 40 percent of WDW's attendance is attributed to MK, leaving the other three parks to split 60 percent. That's too low in terms of a return on investment, and MK may be getting close to a breaking point in terms of customer service and guest satisfaction.

Again, i don't know any of this for certain, but I think Disney sees WDW as one entity with four parks. If they can find ways to re-distrubite people to the other parks to take pressure off MK, that's a good thing. Because of the redesign of DHS, it's hard to do that right now, so they've got Epcot and AK to take up slack. Epcot's trying to do its part by pulling the largest M&G and a new ride, in addition to the new Soarin'. But because of the nature of Epcot, its late night options are limited. DHS has added fireworks it never had before to take some of the pressure off, too, as well as M&Gs that hadn't existed. And AK's doing the same thing.

I think in this discussion it's important to remember that there are very few times MK isn't the last park to close, at least during the summer. It's usually open at least as late as anything else. But Disney may be offering people a reasonable choice -- a family at the resorts wants to go out after 7 pm. If MK is open significantly later than anything else, the obvious choice is to go to MK. But if other parks are open just as late, they've at least got a chance at being chosen for that night's entertainment. And every time someone chooses not to go to MK, it takes stress off that park. Giving MK hours longer than anywhere else on property only increases the chance people will choose to go there in higher proportions to anything else, and I think as Disney tries to equalize its parks, that's not what they are trying to do.

 

[grimley1968]

Just like free dining .... that is a great bonus that Disney offers, but it isn't a guarantee every year.

People get used to "bonuses" and it raises their expectations beyond what it should be. A bonus is a bonus. Nice to get when you can, but you shouldn't be disappointed when it is no longer there.

I'm not touching the hours section of your post, because that has been addressed, but I don't know what sense of the word "bonus" is meant when guests pay rack rate for rooms (versus discounts if they don't get FD) and then Disney "gives" them the Dining Plan. You do see that there is a payment (as indirect as Disney may try to make it appear to guests) for "free dining", right? And with the diminutions in the Dining Plans values, that has become even less of a "bonus" over the years.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm not touching the hours section of your post, because that has been addressed, but I don't know what sense of the word "bonus" is meant when guests pay rack rate for rooms (versus discounts if they don't get FD) and then Disney "gives" them the Dining Plan. You do see that there is a payment (as indirect as Disney may try to make it appear to guests) for "free dining", right? And with the diminutions in the Dining Plans values, that has become even less of a "bonus" over the years.

Well said. And I would add, that it cannot be overlooked that accompanying the loss of benevolent "bonus" hours have been steady price increases. It is one thing to eliminate "bonus hours" and correspondingly cut admission prices. It is another thing to eliminate benevolent bonus hours and keep admission prices static. But cutting bonus hours while simultaneously raising prices? There are words for that. But "cutting bonus hours" are not the words that first jump to mind.

 

[jade1]

AK at night improved our value no doubt. Super fun nights. We simply did late nights at MK when it was later hours. D Springs did as well. OK so did Soarin, FEA, Star Wars Fireworks, Star Wars stage show and the new Castle show.

 

[AngiTN]

Currently

Miami "feels like" 103

AK "feels like" 105

I've always felt like AK was cooler due to the shade from all the trees and whatnot. Talk about hot, WS at Epcot. That's where I feel the heat like no others. And it's a double bummer for me because it doesn't even open till 11:00 (for the most part) so you really cut the hours you get to enjoy it in semi-comfort.

 

[Mikie]

I've always felt like AK was cooler due to the shade from all the trees and whatnot. Talk about hot, WS at Epcot. That's where I feel the heat like no others. And it's a double bummer for me because it doesn't even open till 11:00 (for the most part) so you really cut the hours you get to enjoy it in semi-comfort.

but I feel the same way! I mostly hear people talk about AK being so hot and it seems universally agreed, but I find it a little cooler from the shade (although sometimes pretty swampy with the added humidity!). And I think WS can be a big, hot, pizza oven with the shadeless concrete!

As I stated in the poll thread about added/lost hours in AK/MK, I love AK and look forward to night entertainment there, but I definitely do not consider 1 hour in MK equivalent to an hour in AK and I'm not sure what amount of hours I would consider equal since Pandora is not yet in the mix and I haven't had the chance to experience existing AK evenings.

It does remind me of all companies' tendency to upcharge you for a "new and improved" product whose changes aren't all that "new" and aren't universally considered an "improvement", but your old product is no longer an option, so you just have to suck it up or abandon completely!

 

[jade1]

but I definitely do not consider 1 hour in MK equivalent to an hour in AK and I'm not sure what amount of hours I would consider equal !

Agreed, but 5 hours is quite a bit, mostly just shifts one of nights to AK. We never do MK every night.

 

[jade1]

but I feel the same way! I mostly hear people talk about AK being so hot and it seems universally agreed, but I find it a little cooler from the shade (although sometimes pretty swampy with the added humidity!). And I think WS can be a big, hot, pizza oven with the shadeless concrete!

As I stated in the poll thread about added/lost hours in AK/MK, I love AK and look forward to night entertainment there, but I definitely do not consider 1 hour in MK equivalent to an hour in AK and I'm not sure what amount of hours I would consider equal since Pandora is not yet in the mix and I haven't had the chance to experience existing AK evenings.

It does remind me of all companies' tendency to upcharge you for a "new and improved" product whose changes aren't all that "new" and aren't universally considered an "improvement", but your old product is no longer an option, so you just have to suck it up or abandon completely!

It's all hot now. EPCOT countries work pretty well actually for us. DHS pretty compact and MK is short walks to air as well.

DVC lounge at EPCOT was excellent, spent over an hour resting, charging phones, free drinks and snacks.

They are all better at night though, and now all available at night.

 

[jhoannam]

I think Disney is trying to equalize the parks and trying to take some of the pressure off MK. Looking at the numbers (if you beleive the numbers, because they don't come directly from Disney) 40 percent of WDW's attendance is attributed to MK, leaving the other three parks to split 60 percent. That's too low in terms of a return on investment, and MK may be getting close to a breaking point in terms of customer service and guest satisfaction.

Again, i don't know any of this for certain, but I think Disney sees WDW as one entity with four parks. If they can find ways to re-distrubite people to the other parks to take pressure off MK, that's a good thing. Because of the redesign of DHS, it's hard to do that right now, so they've got Epcot and AK to take up slack. Epcot's trying to do its part by pulling the largest M&G and a new ride, in addition to the new Soarin'. But because of the nature of Epcot, its late night options are limited. DHS has added fireworks it never had before to take some of the pressure off, too, as well as M&Gs that hadn't existed. And AK's doing the same thing.

I think in this discussion it's important to remember that there are very few times MK isn't the last park to close, at least during the summer. It's usually open at least as late as anything else. But Disney may be offering people a reasonable choice -- a family at the resorts wants to go out after 7 pm. If MK is open significantly later than anything else, the obvious choice is to go to MK. But if other parks are open just as late, they've at least got a chance at being chosen for that night's entertainment. And every time someone chooses not to go to MK, it takes stress off that park. Giving MK hours longer than anywhere else on property only increases the chance people will choose to go there in higher proportions to anything else, and I think as Disney tries to equalize its parks, that's not what they are trying to do.

No doubt that is their goal, but you can't expect numbers at MK to drop just because AK has more hours. They need to get their act together and finish ROL & Pandora. That's the only way people will visit AK over MK.

 

[JimmyV]

No doubt that is their goal, but you can't expect numbers at MK to drop just because AK has more hours. They need to get their act together and finish ROL & Pandora. That's the only way people will visit AK over MK.

Precisely. Demand and equilibrium cannot be created artificially.

 

[Angel Ariel]

No doubt that is their goal, but you can't expect numbers at MK to drop just because AK has more hours. They need to get their act together and finish ROL & Pandora. That's the only way people will visit AK over MK.

Exactly

 

[mom2rtk]

No doubt that is their goal, but you can't expect numbers at MK to drop just because AK has more hours. They need to get their act together and finish ROL & Pandora. That's the only way people will visit AK over MK.

I actually don't agree that they are looking to "equalize" the numbers in any way other than to grow the numbers at the other non-MK parks. They don't want to split the pie up differently. They want a bigger pie.

 

[andyman8]

It has been the almost unchallenged narrative here over the past couple of months that Disney is cutting hours at Walt Disney World compared to the previous summer.

I am here to challenge that narrative.

Comparing June 2015 and June 2016 is as follows:

All numbers posted are for regular operating hours, no EMM or EMH

June 2015
Magic Kingdom: 467 hours
Disney's Hollywood Studios: 396 hours
Epcot: 360 hours
Animal Kingdom: 300 hours
Total Hours: 1523

June 2016
Magic Kingdom: 435 hours
Disney's Hollywood Studios: 380 hours
Epcot: 360 hours
Animal Kingdom: 420 hours
Total Hours: 1595

Magic Kingdom experienced a 6.85% decline in hours year-over-year
Disney's Hollywood Studios experienced a 4.04% decline year-over-year
Epcot experienced no change year-over-year
Animal Kingdom experienced a 40% increase year-over year

Total Park Hours experienced a 4.79% increase year-over-year

So for people traveling in June there was an addition 73 hours of park time available to them over the course of the month with only noticeable declines in Magic Kingdom to offset the remarkable increase in hours available at Animal Kingdom. Some could argue that those hours were premature without a fully functional evening show and Pandora, but that is not the point of this post.

Sources were undercover tourist and the official Disney calendar.

It is also notable that park hours for DHS didn't decline as much as you would have expected given the number of closures and no Star Wars Weekends. SWW added 6 hours of extra park time over the two weeks in June 2015.

You see, @Lesverts, it's not as simple as just calculating hours and drawing up percentages. To fully understand the changes in park hours, you have to look at why they're being cut or "reallocated," which are the widespread budget cuts that are reducing CM hours (ask any CM, I'm sure they'd love to share their thoughts on those), reducing the number of showtimes for entertainment, and shrinking food portion sizes across in-park quick-service restaurants. Why the cuts? Disney first used Shanghai to blame, but that seemed to serve as a temporary cover for another driving reason: dropping attendance. Because of the South American economic plunge and Brexit, international attendance (a sizable percentage of summer attendance in particular) has taken a turn for the worse. While they might not have predicted Brexit, WDW had already seen a 2% dip in attendance last quarter, so they knew this subpar summer was coming.

Addressing the park hours, the first thing to realize is DAK was supposed to be open until 11pm each night regardless of when MK or any other park was going to close. They had built that into the budget quite a while ago, and the only reason they waited until May to officially announce it was the the RoL disaster. The budget cuts had actually gotten so far that Disney execs did consider not extending the DAK hours to 11pm for the summer in May, but they figured postponing all of DAK's new nighttime lineup might not just leave them with a lot of disgruntled performers but also yet another PR black eye.

Now, keep in mind that DAK's operating costs are significantly lower than MK's at night. Disney will have to pay all of its animal care CMs to bring in the animals regardless of when the park closes, but DAK only has six actual rides, compared to MK's 40 or so. One of the reasons the execs approved to the plan to keep DAK open at night despite RoL's delay was the operating DAK at night was not going to be a terribly expensive proposition, given that they had already made the necessary changes for the animals.

And to fully understand the scope of the cuts, you also have to look at showtimes. This summer, we've seen fewer performances of MSEP and Fantasmic (virtually no 10:30 showings in July this year). This is not because of the new Star Wars fireworks but rather the desire to shave off that extra half-hour of each night's hours at DHS.

And if you don't want to take my word for all of this, go look at Disneyland's schedule. Both DL and DCA have seen their hours shaved as well (just ask any local, they're not thrilled about it), plus fewer performances of World of Color, and they're not keeping any park there open later than in the past.