Is Disney at fault for disappointment?

[Lorilais_mommie]

An above poster makes a good point that new places to eat are coming.. However its it not enough..
Also I think a lot of guest try to keep their budgets in mind.. I don't think disney has enough places to eat in the parks or at a resonable price..



This is what we have noticed from all our years of disney dinning

There are 3 things the effect your chances of getting these highly coveted meals..
1. Location
2. Characters/ or special atmosphere.
3. and price

--- Location seems to biggest draw.. Which is understandable. No one wants to go to a resort clear on the other side of the property if they don't have to.

--- characters or special atmosphere..
What parent doesn't love skipping the 60 min wait for mickey and getting another 4 characters all included in the price of you meal!
As for atmosphere think BOG and scifi drive in..

--- price I think can play a big part too.. Chef mickey runs a difference of $10.00 per person between lunch and dinner. This can make a lot of the character breakfasts really hard to get.. Also if you can meet the same characters at the different location, but the price Is better.. Think tusker house Vs. Chef mickeys.

But this also applies to non-character meals too.. In HS the brown derby it consider one of the best places to eat.. But the prices are to high for a family to afford. While nice to do once, if that was my only choice of a TS (like it was for my sister in law) i would have been very disappointed.

Another biggie with price is hubby and I have found some great places that only a cost $5-7 more than what we pay at a CS.. One place is the scifi drive -in. We did 2 days back in 2013 at HS the 1st day we did scifi (with TIW card) ran us $53.67 for our family of 4. The next day we did the ABC commissary.. $46.76
Now I ask you if you had the choice would you pick the CS or the TS for a few $$ extra?
I believe this drives up demand big time.. Which may also explain why you maybe able to find a table at some of those pricy places.

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

I also what to add..

Scifi drive-in is the ONLY place I know of that still has tables set aside for walk ups..
They are 6 little picnic style tables in the very back of the room ... not the fancy cars..
I do think this has helped easy the pain and wish other places did this.. Even if it is only 6 tables..

When BOG 1st opened the music box room for dinner as a test.. They only filled the room with people who walked up to ask about a ressie day of.. This was a VERY nice surpise to many who were shut out at 180days..
I don't believe this is the case anymore.. But do wish they would set aside a few tables in each restaurant for 1st come 1st served.

 

[maxiesmom]

I also what to add..

Scifi drive-in is the ONLY place I know of that still has tables set aside for walk ups..
They are 6 little picnic style tables in the very back of the room ... not the fancy cars..
I do think this has helped easy the pain and wish other places did this.. Even if it is only 6 tables..

When BOG 1st opened the music box room for dinner as a test.. They only filled the room with people who walked up to ask about a ressie day of.. This was a VERY nice surpise to many who were shut out at 180days..
I don't believe this is the case anymore.. But do wish they would set aside a few tables in each restaurant for 1st come 1st served.

Setting aside a few tables would help very little. Not enough to make much of an impact on the perception of reservations being hard to come by, or restaurants being hard to get in to. Even with tables for walk ups I have heard people turned away from the Sci-Fi Drive In.

 

[DoingDisney]

As a DVCer, I might be ready at 11 months or 7 months out, why isnt WDW accommodating me since I am ready. It doesnt matter when WDW opens the window someone is going to be shut out.

And yet when that argument was made for FPs, the early bird gets the worm...people were flipping out bc they could not get to the parks early. It is amazing how that mantra works when it is that person who is benefiting from it. But when it doesnt...oh man...not fair is the cry!

And as stated before there are people who have no idea that you have to plan a place like WDW so far in advance. You certainly dont have to in many tourist locations book that far out.

You win the internet today.

 

[DoingDisney]

The issue is honestly one of capacity and demand. Disney is consciously choosing to cut the line between capacity and demand as thin as possible, which makes sense from a profits perspective (at least in the short run) but leaves much to be expected on the service and experience side.

Its very simple. Disney doesn't want to offer a plethora of restaurants such that there are open tables at the last minute at lots of the best places. If they did they would have open tables, and staff prepared to serve those tables, which would be costing money instead of making money.

Its very similar to FP+ and the decision not to really invest in the parks over the last few years. FP+ is a ride rationing system, its suppose to spread the capacity of rides, and divert people to less popular rides they wouldn't normally have gone on in order to maximize the usage of their capacity and spread the crowds out more efficiently. Great plan from a business perspective again, but from a guest experience ? I am not really going to be too happy about being diverted to Stitch ... yay ? The reality is they could have used the money they paid for MM+ and FP+ and instead built a ton of rides, "E" tickets if you like, which would have pulled crowds away from the other rides and would have decreased wait times across the board. But again, this costs money, and builds capacity that might not be utilized at all times, which isn't an efficient use of money from an investment perspective, at least in the short run.

The other places lots of people have been talking about have excess capacity, that's why pre-booking isn't needed. Vegas is amazing like that. But lets be clear, its a choice Disney has made, crowds haven't all of a sudden increased, this has been a long time developing, Disney knows what it is doing and what its done. Disney is responsible for the need to prebook ADRs and now even rides.

I am pretty happy to see Disney building things again, but its pretty hard to honestly deny the that the focus by WDW for the last few years has been squeezing guests. Even on the investor calls Disney itself has said, happily, that profits are up on increased prices, not on increased crowds or happiness (though crowds have grown slightly)

 

[littleblackegg]

People research for months before planting new drought-resistant plants in their yard. They spend weeks and weeks determining the most water-saving new toilet to install. And new cars? They can spend forever on line and in chat groups and consulting with family and friends. If doing all this is totally the norm but you go off on vacation completely unprepared, I just don't get it. Today's family doesn't purchase a scrap of toilet paper without research.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

People research for months before planting new drought-resistant plants in their yard. They spend weeks and weeks determining the most water-saving new toilet to install. And new cars? They can spend forever on line and in chat groups and consulting with family and friends. If doing all this is totally the norm but you go off on vacation completely unprepared, I just don't get it. Today's family doesn't purchase a scrap of toilet paper without research.

The closest thing to research I've ever done on toilet paper is look to see when they stopped making it in colors. Clearly my household is out of the norm. We buy our plants based on what Home Depot has in stock when we swing by and my wife just made a car purchase based on what she thought looked cool in a commercial.

 

[DoingDisney]

People research for months before planting new drought-resistant plants in their yard. They spend weeks and weeks determining the most water-saving new toilet to install. And new cars? They can spend forever on line and in chat groups and consulting with family and friends. If doing all this is totally the norm but you go off on vacation completely unprepared, I just don't get it. Today's family doesn't purchase a scrap of toilet paper without research.

All those things you just talked about are things you have to deal with in real life, it is the exact reason why people wouldn't want to plan a vacation, a vacation is supposed to be a break from the stress of planning and researching that real life requires. Now, if you enjoy planning, great, having the option to plan is awesome. But more and more Disney is making it a necessity, and that's just not a good thing.

 

[Planogirl]

Imagine a typical metropolitan city and it's 4 or 5 best restaurants in one city block. Now, put up walls around that block. Now, drop 50,000 guests into that walled block for a week. And oh yeah, 50,000 new guests every single day of the foreseeable future, well, forever. Now. With those 50,000 guests there, with no way out, and nowhere to eat but those 4 or 5 restaurants and a McDonalds and a Burger King to handle the massive overflow, do you still think the decent food places won't book up the instant they can?

That's why they book up. 50,000 guests, every day. Captive audience. It's not a fair comparison to look at a city restaurant, because in a city, you had breakfast at home, you make food, you go about normal eating habits including picking your local Red Lobster from a choice of a thousand restaurants, which you can get into day-of without a reservation.

Captive by choice. The Orlando area is blessed with slews of good restaurants. People just need to think outside the box. Or the bubble as it were.

 

[BroganMc]

We never make reservations at local restaurants, unless it is Mother's Day or a similar holiday. The only place I make dinner reservations is at Disney, and I still find it annoying. It should be first come, first served, like it used to be.

We never make reservations at local restaurants either. Isn't that solely a big city (e.g. NYC) sorta thing? There are more than enough choices to cover all the traffic. Mot restaurants don't even take reservations. The worst you experience is a long wait (45 mins) on really busy occasions.

 

[MrInfinity]

Amazes me when people talk about how Disney World is not adding stuff.

* MK got 1/4 of it's park redone from the ground up - caverns, mountains, waterfalls, bridges, Storybook Circus, Fantasyland, and the Enchanted Forest.
* HS is getting 1/2 of the park redone, with Star Wars and Toy Story, with thrill and non-thrill rides planned.
* AK is getting 1/4 of the park redone from the ground up in Pandora, plus another 1/4 of the park (Africa) got a major food/theming overhaul.
* Epcot is getting ride redone which will be the biggest princess draw in all of Disney World.
* Downtown Disney is almost entirely new.
* And let's not forget other parks are opening around the world and DL/CA are getting major overhauls too!

It's like... you couldn't really FIT in more construction than is either recently done, in process, or planned to start imminently... and people will still complain about lack of anything new. The biggest expansion to EVER hit the Magic Kingdom is done, and people seem to be so over that like it's old hat. We haven't even ridden the SDMT yet some Dis'ers couldn't care less that it was even built. I really have no sympathy for folks who cannot be pleased by major expansion going in right under their nose. I know the responses. It's not enough. It's not fast enough. It's not good enough. Other folks could go item by item talking about how none of those things impresses them.

There is so much change done, happening, and planned for the next 5 years it is an exciting time for us to be going to Disney World!

 

[Mkrop]

You win the internet today.

LOL Thanks!

People research for months before planting new drought-resistant plants in their yard. They spend weeks and weeks determining the most water-saving new toilet to install. And new cars? They can spend forever on line and in chat groups and consulting with family and friends. If doing all this is totally the norm but you go off on vacation completely unprepared, I just don't get it. Today's family doesn't purchase a scrap of toilet paper without research.

That is not us...we dont research to that level of detail. Maybe on the cars, but that is DH's deal. I told him I wanted a blue SUV. That is what I got. lol

Amazes me when people talk about how Disney World is not adding stuff.

* MK got 1/4 of it's park redone from the ground up - caverns, mountains, waterfalls, bridges, Storybook Circus, Fantasyland, and the Enchanted Forest.
* HS is getting 1/2 of the park redone, with Star Wars and Toy Story, with thrill and non-thrill rides planned.
* AK is getting 1/4 of the park redone from the ground up in Pandora, plus another 1/4 of the park (Africa) got a major food/theming overhaul.
* Epcot is getting ride redone which will be the biggest princess draw in all of Disney World.
* Downtown Disney is almost entirely new.
* And let's not forget other parks are opening around the world and DL/CA are getting major overhauls too!

It's like... you couldn't really FIT in more construction than is either recently done, in process, or planned to start imminently... and people will still complain about lack of anything new. The biggest expansion to EVER hit the Magic Kingdom is done, and people seem to be so over that like it's old hat. We haven't even ridden the SDMT yet some Dis'ers couldn't care less that it was even built. I really have no sympathy for folks who cannot be pleased by major expansion going in right under their nose. I know the responses. It's not enough. It's not fast enough. It's not good enough. Other folks could go item by item talking about how none of those things impresses them.

There is so much change done, happening, and planned for the next 5 years it is an exciting time for us to be going to Disney World!

But there was a huge lag time before any of this started happening, and maybe WDW should have thought about the expansion prior to rolling out the FP+ system. If you are going to institute a crwod control system, you need somewhere to put the darn crowds! They made lines where there shouldnt be lines!

 

[Jennytoon]

I know plenty of people who have read the books or seen the sites and just did not believe that they needed to book 6 months out. They are going out and seeking information, just like you. They just think the 6 month thing is exaggerated, or something that just uber Disney planners do, not something they absolutely *have* to do (even if they want a coveted place). It was just not fathomable to them that it was *necessary* to book ADRs for certain places at 6 months out, because it is so entirely out of the scope of anything they've had to do for anywhere else.

I just don't think it's necessary to put people down when discussing this.

I never think it's necessary to put other people down in a discussion.

That said, I've agreed with a lot of things you've written in this thread, but I'm not with you on this one. When I got married, more than half my vendors told me that it was a real pleasure to work with me because when they gave me advice about something [to avoid a problem] I took it. So people who don't learn fast enough that they need to reserve at 6 months out because that's not the norm elsewhere -- yup, I have a lot of sympathy for them. As you've pointed out, why *would* they necessarily know? But even without putting them down, because that's not necessary, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who are aware of expert advice, that they know is from multiple sources not one site that could just be written by a crackpot, and choose to believe that it's not really that way and all those people must be exaggerating.

 

[Angel Ariel]

That is not us...we dont research to that level of detail. Maybe on the cars, but that is DH's deal. I told him I wanted a blue SUV. That is what I got. lol

Same here. Oh we did research. We went to a car show, looked at all the models in person to narrow it down to a few choices. We checked out consumer reports on those vehicles...that narrowed it down a little more. Then we test drove the remaining cars, and made our decision from there. We didn't "spend forever" online on chat groups or forums asking about it, etc. While I didn't go into the search wanting a minivan (wanted a crossover, like the CRV, but they didn't work out on test drive) - I'm incredibly happy with the minivan I ended up with So yes, research, but not overboard or "forever" to do so. We spent less time researching/planning ahead for a new car than for WDW vacations.

 

[MrInfinity]

Maybe WDW should have thought about the expansion prior to rolling out the FP+ syste. If you are going to institute a crwod control system, you need somewhere to put the darn crowds! They made lines where there shouldnt be lines!

Many of the improvements were done before MM+.

Marvel was acquired in 2009.
Fantasyland was under construction in 2010.
Pandora was announced in 2011.
Disney Springs construction has been going on since 2012
Cars Land opened in 2012.
LucasFilm was acquired in 2012 (so it's not possible for them to have been building a land based on this before acquiring it)

MM+ was announced in 2013. All these ^^^ things started before MM+/FP+.

Within 3 years of acquisition, we have a new movie coming out which has already crushed presale records and ground breaking on new lands in Disney World and Disneyland.
Have you seen the plans? They are not just throwing in some Universal style rides that you can do over a summer... they are bulldozing half the park and building it from the ground up. Do you want quality or do you want now?

Frozen is a 2013 film, so again it's not realistic to think they'd have made a ride about Frozen before it was a hit, but now that it is a hit, within 2 years they have plans to rebuild a ride that princesses the world over will flock to.

I don't see how much faster you think they should be moving here. We haven't even covered all the smaller renovations like the Africa rebuild, the Hub rebuild, etc.

WHILE doing all these major improvements, they also implemented MM+/FP+. It was not "instead of".

Just sayin. If you're not happy with FP+, that's fine and I respect that because it really does affect the touring experience of a lot of people... and some people, in very negative ways. But I would not misplace the frustration to say they aren't building attractions at the same time. There is mega-change going on there. So much so that it would be hard to envision any more construction going on than already is.

 

[Mkrop]

I never think it's necessary to put other people down in a discussion.

That said, I've agreed with a lot of things you've written in this thread, but I'm not with you on this one. When I got married, more than half my vendors told me that it was a real pleasure to work with me because when they gave me advice about something [to avoid a problem] I took it. So people who don't learn fast enough that they need to reserve at 6 months out because that's not the norm elsewhere -- yup, I have a lot of sympathy for them. As you've pointed out, why *would* they necessarily know? But even without putting them down, because that's not necessary, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who are aware of expert advice, that they know is from multiple sources not one site that could just be written by a crackpot, and choose to believe that it's not really that way and all those people must be exaggerating.

I agree with your post but I still feel bad for the people who just dont seem to get it...Like I wrote a million pages back about C. She did move her trip to make for more time, but real life got in the way, she truly believed it wouldnt be that bad, that they would find somewhere to eat, she heard me, but could not just get it together to follow the advice. But then all her friends told her Chef Mickey is a must do and she was crestfallen when she could not get in. I gave her some other suggestions and they wound up at TH and enjoyed it and got to meet Mickey.

Like anyone in life, some are going to get it on the first listen and others you need to pound it over their head with a sledgehammer. But I still think WDW is such a unique experience in the world of vacation planning than other destinations, that it takes people, even some smart cookies, off guard.

 

[Mkrop]

Many of the improvements were done before MM+.

Marvel was acquired in 2009.
Fantasyland was under construction in 2010.
Pandora was announced in 2011.
Disney Springs construction has been going on since 2012
Cars Land opened in 2012.
LucasFilm was acquired in 2012 (so it's not possible for them to have been building a land based on this before acquiring it)

MM+ was announced in 2013. All these ^^^ things started before MM+/FP+.

Within 3 years of acquisition, we have a new movie coming out which has already crushed presale records and ground breaking on new lands in Disney World and Disneyland.
Have you seen the plans? They are not just throwing in some Universal style rides that you can do over a summer... they are bulldozing half the park and building it from the ground up. Do you want quality or do you want now?

Frozen is a 2013 film, so again it's not realistic to think they'd have made a ride about Frozen before it was a hit, but now that it is a hit, within 2 years they have plans to rebuild a ride that princesses the world over will flock to.

I don't see how much faster you think they should be moving here. We haven't even covered all the smaller renovations like the Africa rebuild, the Hub rebuild, etc.

WHILE doing all these major improvements, they also implemented MM+/FP+. It was not "instead of".

Just sayin. If you're not happy with FP+, that's fine and I respect that because it really does affect the touring experience of a lot of people... and some people, in very negative ways. But I would not misplace the frustration to say they aren't building attractions at the same time. There is mega-change going on there. So much so that it would be hard to envision any more construction going on than already is.

You mention a lot of stuff not relevant to WDW. I love Carsland but what does that have to do about crowd control and planning at WDW?

IMHO, Epcot and DHS have needed much more attention over the years than they have been given. Great they are putting in the Frozen ride but what about the rest of Epcot and the outdated empty building, what about a new country etc. What have the Imagineers assigned to Epcot being doing all these years?

If those parks were expanded we would not have tiers and imho MK would not be so overwhelmed right now. You need a place to put all these people and keep them occupied and I think WDW waited a tad too long before doing all this. Glad they are doing it now but the expansion AT WDW, is long overdue.

 

[JimmyV]

Many of the improvements were done before MM+.

Marvel was acquired in 2009.
Fantasyland was under construction in 2010.
Pandora was announced in 2011.
Disney Springs construction has been going on since 2012
Cars Land opened in 2012.
LucasFilm was acquired in 2012 (so it's not possible for them to have been building a land based on this before acquiring it)

MM+ was announced in 2013. All these ^^^ things started before MM+/FP+.

Within 3 years of acquisition, we have a new movie coming out which has already crushed presale records and ground breaking on new lands in Disney World and Disneyland.
Have you seen the plans? They are not just throwing in some Universal style rides that you can do over a summer... they are bulldozing half the park and building it from the ground up. Do you want quality or do you want now?

Frozen is a 2013 film, so again it's not realistic to think they'd have made a ride about Frozen before it was a hit, but now that it is a hit, within 2 years they have plans to rebuild a ride that princesses the world over will flock to.

I don't see how much faster you think they should be moving here. We haven't even covered all the smaller renovations like the Africa rebuild, the Hub rebuild, etc.

WHILE doing all these major improvements, they also implemented MM+/FP+. It was not "instead of".

Just sayin. If you're not happy with FP+, that's fine and I respect that because it really does affect the touring experience of a lot of people... and some people, in very negative ways. But I would not misplace the frustration to say they aren't building attractions at the same time. There is mega-change going on there. So much so that it would be hard to envision any more construction going on than already is.

The way I see it, in 2040 when people look back at various time periods in WDW's history, 1982-1997 will be seen as the most prolific era of growth and expansion; 2013-2025 will be seen as a Renaissance Period; and 9/11-2012 will be seen as the Dark Ages of WDW. I attribute much of the angst on this Board to the fact that the last 15 years have been really weak in terms of dynamic changes. Lots of people who post here have only been experiencing WDW over the past 15 years and it has gotten stale for them. Iger put the brakes on what had been a fairly progressive period. And when the next growth spurt is over and 2001-2012 is finally sandwiched (historically speaking), between 1982-2000 on one end, and 2013-2025 on the other, the contrast will become even more stark. As you point out, there is a lot coming. Hopefully the past 15 years will become a distant memory.

 

[MrInfinity]

You mention a lot of stuff not relevant to WDW. I love Carsland but what does that have to do about crowd control and planning at WDW?

IMHO, Epcot and DHS have needed much more attention over the years than they have been given. Great they are putting in the Frozen ride but what about the rest of Epcot and the outdated empty building, what about a new country etc. What have the Imagineers assigned to Epcot being doing all these years?

If those parks were expanded we would not have tiers and imho MK would not be so overwhelmed right now. You need a place to put all these people and keep them occupied and I think WDW waited a tad too long before doing all this. Glad they are doing it now but the expansion AT WDW, is long overdue.

To me the DHS ship has sailed. It is going to be the #2 park in Florida once Star Wars opens.

I don't disagree w you and would love to see EPCOT really become an Experimental Prototype type of thing... but in that regard, much of what EPCOT is based on is retro futuristic... that is, a time when people thought 30 years later would look like the Jetsons when really it looks like... well... the 1980's but with flatter screens, smaller phones, and fewer mullets. Walt's view of the future did not pan out so this park is lacking in identity. In the mean time, while this park's identity is reimagined, and while the other 3 parks are getting major overhauls, this is still getting 50% capacity to Soarin, and a new ride which will be the #1 FastPass draw in all of Disney World. The Tier-1 ride capactiy at this park is being nearly doubled. That is hardly bad for an "interim" improvement, at the park being least improved at the moment!

The way I see it, in 2040 when people look back at various time periods in WDW's history, 1982-1997 will be seen as the most prolific era of growth and expansion; 2013-2025 will be seen as a Renaissance Period; and 9/11-2012 will be seen as the Dark Ages of WDW. I attribute much of the angst on this Board to the fact that the last 15 years have been really weak in terms of dynamic changes. Lots of people who post here have only been experiencing WDW over the past 15 years and it has gotten stale for them. Iger put the brakes on what had been a fairly progressive period. And when the next growth spurt is over and 2001-2012 is finally sandwiched (historically speaking), between 1982-2000 on one end, and 2013-2025 on the other, the contrast will become even more stark. As you point out, there is a lot coming. Hopefully the past 15 years will become a distant memory.

I actually like this analogy. I would maybe cut the "Dark Ages" at 2009 tho, because the economy collapsed in 2008. After that, began the slow and steady recovery, along with Disney beginning the rebuilding for the next boom... New Fantasyland was announced in 2009. That is the beginning of a series of major improvements, as well as being the first major improvement to the Magic Kingdom ever. Also I think the Marvel acquisition in 2009 signaled a lot of reinvestment in brands to come.

But before you go jumping on the bash-Iger train, remember that the Pixar acquisition was all Iger. Really Disney partnering with Pixar has changed Disney in so many ways. Where would the parks be today without Woody & Buzz? Maybe we'd still have the Delta Dreamliner ride. He was also president only for a year before 9/11 occurred, and had to make moves to keep the company afloat. Being president during a dark time does not mean you are responsible for the things that caused the downturn. It was time to cut costs. He did, and because of that Disney World is here today.

 

[littleblackegg]

The way I see it, in 2040 when people look back at various time periods in WDW's history, 1982-1997 will be seen as the most prolific era of growth and expansion; 2013-2025 will be seen as a Renaissance Period; and 9/11-2012 will be seen as the Dark Ages of WDW. I attribute much of the angst on this Board to the fact that the last 15 years have been really weak in terms of dynamic changes. Lots of people who post here have only been experiencing WDW over the past 15 years and it has gotten stale for them. Iger put the brakes on what had been a fairly progressive period. And when the next growth spurt is over and 2001-2012 is finally sandwiched (historically speaking), between 1982-2000 on one end, and 2013-2025 on the other, the contrast will become even more stark. As you point out, there is a lot coming. Hopefully the past 15 years will become a distant memory.

Let me just get this straight. I expect this massive theme park complex to be refreshed with new rides, restaurants and theming every time I go. I also don't want anything to ever close, ever be more expensive or to be inconvenienced in any way at any time ever. I expect all changes that may occur as a result of traffic, the economy, overseas political strife or anything else that may be a big deal to be handled before I get there so I don't have to worry about lines or parking or bus service or security or people running me down with strollers.