Is Coronavirus affecting your travel plans?

[godisney14]

The number of people it hospitalizes is the big worry with the disease more so than the number of people it kills. You over burden the system and you have a lot of people dying from all sorts of things.

For examples, look at what is happening in Italy and Iran, especially. Not much talk about Iran, but they’re basically just piling the dead.

Of course, the medical care is much better in the US. But, that doesn’t mean we have an unlimited number of beds. (We don’t have nearly enough for even 10% hospitalization if situation became severe). So, everything needs to be done to flatten the incidence/prevalence curves and reduce further spread.

 

[Brianstl]

My $0.02. Here is my outlook for the next 1-2 months:
Will the situation get worse? Likely
Will the situation stay the course? Maybe, if the US spends as much as necessary fighting the virus instead of pouring money to keep the stock market from falling further.
Will the situation get better? 100% No

Even in China and Korea where testing and government response is greater, the prevalence is still increasing (although the incidence rate is slowly coming down).

The virus is not sensitive to interest rate cuts or fiscally backing certain industries. Those aren’t going to do anything about public perception of the disease risk either.

Spending money isn't the big issue. The big issue is having the will as country to do what is necessary if we reach a tipping point. Just throwing money at it won't fix anything. You need the will to enforce quarantines, you need the will to ban travel from certain areas, you need the will to suspend zoning requirements and environmental reviews when it comes to building medical facilities, etc.. Saying throw money at it is just something you do to make yourself think you are doing something while avoiding or delaying the responsibilities of the hard choices that we might actually have to make.

 

[Colleen27]

Honestly, I think the airlines are most worried about the extra cost burden this would put on them. I understand that from their point of view. Too many people are paying attention to the percentage of people who are dying from this virus without looking at what it has done to the healthcare system in places with sizable outbreaks. We don't have the same amount of hospital beds in this country as many others do on a per person basis and the laws in this country prevent us from building hospitals with the speed displayed in China. The Feds now have to look at it from a public health emergency perspective. Having the airlines collect this information is viewed as a way to slow the spread of this virus without grounding flights by giving public health officials the information they need to backtrack who has been exposed to future positive test cases.

And the privacy concerns. Some of what the administration is asking for would, on its face, violate EU privacy laws. Some might violate US privacy laws as well, regarding the collection of contact information for minor passengers, depending on how it is handled.

There's also a consumer concern to worry about regarding privacy and travel history. And I don't blame the airlines one bit for being sensitive to that and to the possibility of the data collection outliving to COVID19 outbreak and possibly becoming a tool of law enforcement or immigration authorities.

 

[RamblingMad]

Honestly, I think the airlines are most worried about the extra cost burden this would put on them. I understand that from their point of view. Too many people are paying attention to the percentage of people who are dying from this virus without looking at what it has done to the healthcare system in places with sizable outbreaks. We don't have the same amount of hospital beds in this country as many others do on a per person basis and the laws in this country prevent us from building hospitals with the speed displayed in China. The Feds now have to look at it from a public health emergency perspective. Having the airlines collect this information is viewed as a way to slow the spread of this virus without grounding flights by giving public health officials the information they need to backtrack who has been exposed to future positive test cases.

China’s surveillance of its people made this much easier. They could get this info from your phone at point of entry.

 

[Brianstl]

For examples, look at what is happening in Italy and Iran, especially. Not much talk about Iran, but they’re basically just piling the dead.

Of course, the medical care is much better in the US. But, that doesn’t mean we have an unlimited number of beds. (We don’t have nearly enough for even 10% hospitalization if situation became severe). So, everything needs to be done to flatten the incidence/prevalence curves and reduce further spread.

I have to think the numbers in Iran have to be underreported pretty drastically. Something like 8% of their parliament has died from the virus. Granted they tend to be older but that is a pretty drastic rate in a group they sort of have to let people know about.

 

[Brianstl]

And the privacy concerns. Some of what the administration is asking for would, on its face, violate EU privacy laws. Some might violate US privacy laws as well, regarding the collection of contact information for minor passengers, depending on how it is handled.

There's also a consumer concern to worry about regarding privacy and travel history. And I don't blame the airlines one bit for being sensitive to that and to the possibility of the data collection outliving to COVID19 outbreak and possibly becoming a tool of law enforcement or immigration authorities.

This is an example of not being willing to make the hard choices that need to be made. First off, the EU concerns are laughable since this applies to domestic travel. Second, if the regulations outliving COVID-19 was a major concern of theirs they would be asking for sunset language instead of flat out balking. Personally, I think some kind of sunset language is of vital importance to whatever changes we make to address the virus.

 

[godisney14]

Spending money isn't the big issue. The big issue is having the will as country to do what is necessary if we reach a tipping point. Just throwing money at it won't fix anything. You need the will to enforce quarantines, you need the will to ban travel from certain areas, you need the will to suspend zoning requirements and environmental reviews when it comes to building medical facilities, etc.. Saying throw money at it is just something you do to make yourself think you are doing something while avoiding or delaying the responsibilities of the hard choices that we might actually have to make.

“Spending money” as in throw all resources necessary at it. Very broad, including funding university and other public research groups studying virology, working with private to increase number of test kits, taking control of critical supplies such as masks and sanitizers so that there is reasonable access for everyone, distributing the tests to all regions and giving authority to those on the ground to test individuals on a walk-in basis, etc.

Of course, there’s a willingness component to all this. That’s partly what I’m referring to when spending all resources necessary.

Last week, the House passed a $8.3B budget to fight this, which was more than 3x what the White House originally sought. What does a few $B matter right now? The budget for DoD is $2B per day.

 

[Brianstl]

“Spending money” as in throw all resources necessary at it. Very broad, including funding university and other public research groups studying virology, working with private to increase number of test kits, taking control of critical supplies such as masks and sanitizers so that there is reasonable access for everyone, distributing the tests to all regions and giving authority to those on the ground to test individuals on a walk-in basis, etc.

Of course, there’s a willingness component to all this. That’s partly what I’m referring to when spending all resources necessary.

Last week, the House passed a $8.3B budget to fight this, which was more than 3x what the White House originally sought. What does a few $B matter right now? The budget for DoD is $2B per day.

I don't understand why people keep focusing on the initial spending request of the President. The power of the purse belongs to Congress and they are always free to pass an appropriation they deem necessary and are always free to later appropriate more money. Having enough money to spend to combat this virus was never going to be an issue. Despite what anyone might say, everyone in DC loves spending money.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I don't understand why people keep focusing on the initial spending request of the President. The power of the purse belongs to Congress and they are always free to pass an appropriation they deem necessary and are always free to later appropriate more money. Having enough money to spend to combat this virus was never going to be an issue. Despite what anyone might say, everyone in DC loves spending money.

I hate politics, and I do not know the board rules here, but I agree that spending was never a concern. That doesn't mean that it was handled properly, but money was not and is not the concern.

 

[Brianstl]

I hate politics, and I do not know the board rules here, but I agree that spending was never a concern. That doesn't mean that it was handled properly, but money was not and is not the concern.

Well said and I probably ventured into to the politics of this all more than I should have. No more.

 

[Kennywood]

 

[gwynne]

View attachment 479850

Good grief. I'd be finding a new provider.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

DH is not going with us over spring break to see the grandbabies. His nephrologist today said no travel. DH is letting his boss know (since he is supposed to go to different offices to do training) that all the training will need to be done thru video chat. He's even considering working from home.

I'm not in the cancellation period for Jetblue, but I'm hoping they will refund just his ticket (and the even more seat additional costs) without penalty. (Bought one ticket in october and the other at the beginning of february) At the least, I'm hoping they will refund the even more seats (almost $300!) and then give a credit for the remaining $400 that I spent on those tickets.

DS and I are still planning on going, but I am fighting with myself about going.

 

[RamblingMad]

Good grief. I'd be finding a new provider.

Me too.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Good grief. I'd be finding a new provider.

Amen

 

[Kestryl]

View attachment 479850

Where’d you find that? I saw this on Twitter 4 days ago without the “posted at a doctor’s office” part. And a quick image search seems to indicate that the doctor’s office part is only from the past day.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Where’d you find that? I saw this on Twitter 4 days ago without the “posted at a doctor’s office” part. And a quick image search seems to indicate that the doctor’s office part is only from the past day.

Pretty typical today - lots of misinformation out there.

 

[godisney14]

Well....looks like Italy took the (necessary) step of taking drastic measures given how things are out of control there.

The WHOLE country will be under some level of mandatory lockdown with jail or fine as punishment.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...-australia-recession-fears-update-latest-news

 

[RamblingMad]

Well....looks like Italy took the (necessary) step of taking drastic measures given how things are out of control there.

The WHOLE country will be under some level of mandatory lockdown with jail or fine as punishment.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...-australia-recession-fears-update-latest-news

What happened to that poster here that was going to Italy?

 

[Colleen27]

I have to think the numbers in Iran have to be underreported pretty drastically. Something like 8% of their parliament has died from the virus. Granted they tend to be older but that is a pretty drastic rate in a group they sort of have to let people know about.

That's in keeping with the fatality rates for older adults, though. I'm sure they're underreporting - that's a luxury closed societies have - but it isn't out of line to see so many fatalities among such an old, male group.

View attachment 479850

This is laughably false, just so you know. The COVID19 facts are selective at best - leaving out that it is more contagious than flu, only including the fatality rate for the lowest-risk age groups, and using our no-testing protocols to support the idea that the spread is leveling off. And several the "election year diseases" are just plain wrong, or attribute multi-year outbreaks that peaked in the media in non-election years to the closest election year. The only one on the list that aligned neatly with an election was ebola 2014 - the outbreak actually started in 2013 but it was Oct '14 when a American doctor was brought home for treatment, causing a media firestorm.