Is basic etiquette just completely dead??

[pryncess527]

Interesting, since so many people seem to think it's rude or poor etiquette not to automatically give all single people a plus one, I googled...and could not find a single site or etiquette expert who agrees with that:

And Emily Post has been saying the exact same thing for decades. It's not a recent change.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Not necessarily. I've been dating someone for almost a year and a half. If I were invited without them to a wedding I'd think it was either an oversight or mistake, not that they weren't actually invited.

It doesn't matter what you'd think. According to modern etiquette, it's rude to ask.

 

[JustCallMeMommy]

My problem is that invitations aren't addressed properly half the time. I'll realize in speaking with someone who didn't include an additional person on the invitation that they are really expecting me to bring someone. I have had two occasions recently where DD wasn't on the invitation, but when I spoke to the hostess, DD was clearly expected.

I think it saves a lot of trouble just to ask if there is any doubt. The key is that you have to ask in a way that allows the host to give either answer, and you aren't allowed to get insulted if they don't answer the way you are hoping.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

I do agree that if you see "john smith" on the envelope and not "john smith and guest", its rude to just include a guest. I do agree that its rude.

However, since we're talking about etiquette, I personally think its rude when single folks arent allowed to bring a date to a wedding just because theyre not "in a serious relationship". As people have mentioned, some have social anxiety and arent comfortable attending such functions alone. Yes its the bride/groom's choice to purposely NOT allow you to bring a guest, if they cant afford it, thats fine. You have to respect their wishes. However, from experience, when I was single, none of my friends, esp my close friends, ever did that to me. Even thou I was single, they always asked if I wanted to bring someone. Mind you its different if the wedding involves people youre not particularly close with. In that case, if you have anxiety, its easy enough to just politely decline the invite.

Do you regularly invite almost strangers to a wedding? Social anxiety and not attending such functions alone isn't a reason to not invite them, the bride and groom are still not obligated to include a plus 1 for everyone, they can even pick and choose. If Mary is an introvert with social anxiety, they can graciously allow her to bring a date, but can at the same time only invite Sue, because she's a total player who always has a flavor of the week that they don't want to include in the festivities. It's completely up to the bride and groom, and isn't rude in either case.

Seems like there is a lot of social anxiety on the DIS! Honestly, I have never attended a wedding where I didn't know anyone. It's a celebration of friends and family - how close could you be to a couple if you don't know ANY of their friends and family? DH and I attended a wedding of a co-worker of mine (small office), and we were put at the "table of people who know no one." DH must have made quite the impression on one guy we were sitting with - we were invited to his wedding a year later!

Exactly!

 

[Nakkira]

If single people receive an invitation to a wedding that doesn't include a guest, I think it's okay if they ask if they can bring someone. When I got married in 2002, we addressed an invitation to a family we're close too. The son asked if he could bring his girlfriend. We said yes. My parents had to pay for 100 people, and only 86 were invited.

If you really are close enough there is no reason not to ask, it's only expecting or assuming that is rude.

Even though I am a bridesmaid in my friends upcoming wedding, I did not assume my DBF was invited, especially when she told me how limited her list was.
I did ask while were discussing it and even implied that I would not be upset if he was not because I knew how limited things were. She laughed and assured me that he was a part of the final guest list.
Still, while I would have been sad not to dance with my love at her wedding, it is Her wedding, not mine, and I am just happy to be there for her.

 

[cobright]

I was always taught that when receiving a wedding invitation when you are single, the envelope will tell you whether you are receiving a plus one - i.e., if I receive an invitation addressed to "Ms. hlg22 and Guest", then I am invited to bring a guest. On the other hand, if I receive an invitation addressed solely to "Ms. hlg22", then the invitation is extended to me alone. I also thought this was pretty much common sense.

There is no such thing as common sense, there are only individual understandings and they often differ.

There are substantial breaches of etiquette and courtesy on both ends of this situation. First there must be understanding that each person involved may view the situation through a lens informed by very different norms and experiences. Some people have never been invited to a wedding or only ever invited as a guest, they may assume that couples are always invited together or that a +1 is implied. They are wrong, but that doesn't mean they are daft or rude. RSVPing with an additional name is, in this sense, serving the purpose of informing the host how many will be coming.

It is a hosts right and prerogative to invite who they please to their party. At the same time, a host is sending a very strong message by not applying the same criteria to all invitations or tailoring the criteria so selectively as to achieve the same effect. Sending a +1 to some but not all guests is a mine-field. You are not so subtly telling your invitee that their having an escort at your party is less important to you than the other person's comfort. Some exceptions are obvious, a divorced parent of the bride or groom is afforded special consideration, maybe the bridesmaids and groomsmen as well, but beyond that I would warn away from sending out +1s, like golden tickets, to a lucky few.

If you get an RSVP from someone for more places than the invitation, then you give them a call to inform them of your intention and to discuss their needs. Not to set them straight. You invite a single guest that must fly in and she wants to bring an escort; you should be apologizing to her for your oversight in not inquiring first if she should be invited with a guest.

If I could impress on brides-to-be and other wedding planners just one thing it would be this:
You are not doing your guests a favor by inviting them to your wedding. They are giving up a weekend afternoon. They are likely giving you a generous gift. They are giving you an adoring crowd on 'your' special day. What are you giving them? a crappy buffet? drinks and a crappy DJ? dancing on a linoleum floor to music bland enough to be enjoyed by the grandparents? Do you know why it is so common to have drunken drama at wedding receptions? It's because no one wants to be there and drinking is the only thing that eases the boredom.

Look at your guest list, half or more of them see being invited as an imposition and not an honor, but you're upset that one of them who is willing to get on a plane and (I assume) bunk in a motel in order to celebrate your wedding wants a friend along?

 

[goofy4tink]

Dh and I were invited to his cousins second wedding this past summer. The invitation was addressed to us, no mention of our almost 20y/o dd. no problem. Well his brother got an invitation addressed to his wife and son, as if they were the married couple. We were talking to an aunt and uncle about a month prior to the wedding and were told that no cousins were getting invitations that included their kids. So we thought it might be a good idea to let dd's brother know that the invitation was just for him and his wife, not their son. Well....he decided to call the groom and see. He was told to go ahead and bring their son, no big deal. Sure, their son is 18, not a little kid. But we had many people ask where our dd was....had to say she wasn't available that day. Made things somewhat uncomfortable for us.
Some people just don't think they have to do the right thing. Invitations are pretty clear as to who is included. If you aren't comfortable going solo, send your regrets and a nice gift.

 

[mjkacmom]

If I could impress on brides-to-be and other wedding planners just one thing it would be this:
You are not doing your guests a favor by inviting them to your wedding. They are giving up a weekend afternoon. They are likely giving you a generous gift. They are giving you an adoring crowd on 'your' special day. What are you giving them? a crappy buffet? drinks and a crappy DJ? dancing on a linoleum floor to music bland enough to be enjoyed by the grandparents? Do you know why it is so common to have drunken drama at wedding receptions? It's because no one wants to be there and drinking is the only thing that eases the boredom.?

Wow, I'd hate to go to a wedding in your neck of the woods! I look forward to a nice ceremony, an amazing cocktail hour with endless dishes, carving stations, and passed apps, followed by a 5 course dinner, and great desserts. Lots of dancing, endless cocktails (well, I'm in my 40's - I have to end them), and no sign of linoleum. And believe it or not, I've never witnessed drunken drama!

 

[hlg22]

There are substantial breaches of etiquette and courtesy on both ends of this situation.

As I posted above, I was unable to find a single etiquette site or expert who agrees with you that every guest must be granted a plus one or it is a breach of etiquette.

It is a hosts right and prerogative to invite who they please to their party. At the same time, a host is sending a very strong message by not applying the same criteria to all invitations or tailoring the criteria so selectively as to achieve the same effect. Sending a +1 to some but not all guests is a mine-field.

You are not so subtly telling your invitee that their having an escort at your party is less important to you than the other person's comfort. Some exceptions are obvious, a divorced parent of the bride or groom is afforded special consideration, maybe the bridesmaids and groomsmen as well, but beyond that I would warn away from sending out +1s, like golden tickets, to a lucky few.

I am not sure where I said that they were "selectively" sending out plus ones? Nobody got a plus one. For guests who they knew to be in long-term relationships but not engaged or married, they invited both individuals, rather than "Jane Smith and Guest." These people are their friends, so in those cases they at least know/have met the friend's SO.

You invite a single guest that must fly in and she wants to bring an escort; you should be apologizing to her for your oversight in not inquiring first if she should be invited with a guest.

Wow. I think I have my answer to the title of this thread. As a single person, I have MANY times attended wedding on my own, including weddings in other states. If I receive an invitation without a plus one that I don't want to attend on my own, I just decline. I don't get all pissy about it.

If I could impress on brides-to-be and other wedding planners just one thing it would be this:
You are not doing your guests a favor by inviting them to your wedding. They are giving up a weekend afternoon. They are likely giving you a generous gift. They are giving you an adoring crowd on 'your' special day. What are you giving them? a crappy buffet? drinks and a crappy DJ? dancing on a linoleum floor to music bland enough to be enjoyed by the grandparents? Do you know why it is so common to have drunken drama at wedding receptions? It's because no one wants to be there and drinking is the only thing that eases the boredom.

Again, just...wow. I think you must be going to a different sort of wedding than the ones I go to. I've never been to a wedding where there was "drunken drama." Ever. I attend weddings because I love my friends and family and want to support them, not because I am looking for a fancy free meal. If I receive an invitation from an acquaintance or distant family member that I'm not interested in attending, I don't go.

 

[ilovemk76]

I was always taught that when receiving a wedding invitation when you are single, the envelope will tell you whether you are receiving a plus one - i.e., if I receive an invitation addressed to "Ms. hlg22 and Guest", then I am invited to bring a guest. On the other hand, if I receive an invitation addressed solely to "Ms. hlg22", then the invitation is extended to me alone. I also thought this was pretty much common sense.

So my sister is getting married next month. She is very stressed with wedding planning, and they are on a tight budget and also (obviously) have a limit on guests at the venue, so they were not able to extend "plus one" invites to guests who are single and not seriously dating anyone. Invitations have gone out, and they've now had three people so far who did not receive a plus one but have rsvp'd for themselves and a guest. One person who did this is actually a close friend of mine, who rsvp'd for herself and her roommate (platonic, not dating, my sister and her fiance have never met him). When gently told that the invite was just for her, she said "oops, sorry, my etiquette fail," and I thought it was over, but then found out that she had texted my sister to say that her roommate really wanted to come (to the wedding of people he's never met?!?!?) and would sit outside the tent and not eat (??? As if my sister would allow that). So now my sister feels bad, like she's disinviting someone, when he was never even invited in the first place! They had another guest rsvp for a plus one who has already booked airfare and hotel for them both, so she doesn't really feel like there's anything they can do about that. They will be able to squeeze these few in if they have to but if they get many more it will be a problem, and it is taking away from a few additional people that they would like to invite if they have space - coworker friends, etc. Are people really that clueless about etiquette, or do they just figure that the hosts/bride and groom won't tell them "no?" I am floored, and feel sorry for my poor sister who is calling me to vent but is too nice to decisively tell these people that they can't just add whoever they want on to their invitations!

I was also taught that one always addresses the envelop to a single person plus a guest. This is so they do not feel awkward at the event. The names on the outside would be used to indicate that just the parent or the parents and kids were invited.

So your sister, who wants to save money, can just invite a person who has to fly out for the wedding and fell it is OK to have them be alone the whole time?

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

The bride and groom have a much better handle on their invitation list than you do!

Yeah. they have such a good handle on it that two or three plus ones are going to break them. Such a good handle indeed.

It doesn't matter what you'd think. According to modern etiquette, it's rude to ask.

It is rude to ask for an exception once things are explained. It is not rude to ask before that.

Again, just...wow. I think you must be going to a different sort of wedding than the ones I go to. I've never been to a wedding where there was "drunken drama." Ever. I attend weddings because I love my friends and family and want to support them, not because I am looking for a fancy free meal. If I receive an invitation from an acquaintance or distant family member that I'm not interested in attending, I don't go.

In other words, the person you were responding to is correct. You are only going because you want to support the person getting married and they aren't doing you a favor by inviting you.

You are not doing your guests a favor by inviting them to your wedding. They are giving up a weekend afternoon. They are likely giving you a generous gift. They are giving you an adoring crowd on 'your' special day.

And Emily Post has been saying the exact same thing for decades.

Uh, Emily Post hasn't said anything since September 25th, 1960.

 

[eliza61]

Seems like there is a lot of social anxiety on the DIS! Honestly, I have never attended a wedding where I didn't know anyone. It's a celebration of friends and family - how close could you be to a couple if you don't know ANY of their friends and family? DH and I attended a wedding of a co-worker of mine (small office), and we were put at the "table of people who know no one." DH must have made quite the impression on one guy we were sitting with - we were invited to his wedding a year later!

Oh I have, a couple of times. One of my roommates was from Atlanta, I'm from NYC. I met her fiancée maybe once and her parents once. Who would I know in Atlanta. Our other two roommates were not attending so if my boyfriend had not come I would have been sitting in a reception hall most likely being very bored.

Now some people can "work a room". My sister is like that, she's works in the fashion industry so her entire environment usually means being in social settings with strangers. Me, it makes me feel uncomfortable.


I've been lucky in that the three times when I've sent my regrets and the reason why, the bride has always called me and said "what are you talking about, of course you can bring a date"

Ironically a few months ago when a cousin got married, they called me and tried to fix me up so I wouldn't have to go alone!! LOL. I will admit though my friends who had big weddings would not have stressed over 10 extra people.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

If you haven't come out and told anyone about the relationship, then why would the happy couple be in any way obligated to share their day with a complete stranger?

And yet, it seems to be ok to ask someone to fly in and come alone and share their day with a bunch of strangers, all for a sum total of 5 minutes they're actually going to be sharing with (instead of watching from a distance) the bride and groom. That's not to mention the bride and groom would not be sharing "their day" but more accurately be sharing maybe 5 minutes out of their day with the stranger, who would be with the person that brought said stranger.

 

[si-am]

I got invited to a wedding by myself a few years ago, even though I am married. There was no mention of my husband on the invitation; just my name. I wasn't sure what to do. Assume he was included? Assume he wasn't?

I ended up declining.

 

[aprilgail2]

I have never received an invitation that wasn't "and guest" and most of my friends invited all singles and a + 1 for their weddings but if I did receive one that wasn't "and guest" and I was single I wouldn't bring anyone or RSVP for anyone else. That is a bit presumptuous.

Well, I guess it is bad etiquette.

I've never been a Miss Manners myself but I couldn't imagine inviting a single adult to that sort of a function and not including an "and guest." I also really don't have much of an ability to rate where everybody is in their dating lives as serious enough to warrant a couple invitation. Is that commonly done?

I think it's rude to add people to the RSVP but I also think it's inconsiderate to invite single people without a guest, especially the person who has to travel from out of town.

This is a bigger problem IMO!!! Don't bring kids to a wedding!

I think I have been invited to a total of 2 weddings where kids were not invited!

 

[DeniseinNS]

So the bride/groom decides that if the person is not in a relationship, they wont be allowed to bring a guest? How do they determine the seriousness of the relationship? Suppose a friend is quite serious with a gf/bf but just hasn’t come out and told anyone (aside from family) yet. Maybe the bridge/groom just don’t know? I think its rude to not allow a friend at your wedding to bring a guest, just because you assume theyre single.

In all my years I’ve only been invited to two weddings in which I wasn’t allowed to bring a guest. One was on valentines day, and I was married at the time! Lol. Of course I declined. Another wedding is actually coming up, it’s a coworkers wedding. Everyone from the office is going so it will be fine.

If your sister can squeeze in the extra people, I would allow (those who ask) to bring a guest. If she really cant, then she will have to put her foot down and tell the guests that she just doesn’t have space.

It's rude for someone invited to assume that you should be allowed to bring a date when it is addressed to one person. If the couple assume you are single than they probably do not know you are in a relationship and have never met your SO (and why would the SO want to go to a strangers wedding??) or they could be on a budget. I know that I would personally rather have all people that I DO know at my wedding rather than having to cut people out of the #'s to allow for people to bring dates that are likely strangers to me.

 

[cobright]

As I posted above, I was unable to find a single etiquette site or expert who agrees with you that every guest must be granted a plus one or it is a breach of etiquette.

Actually what I said is that it is the host's right and prerogative to invite whomever they may wish. I only cautioned that showing favoritism in this regard can send a very strong message that you value some guests more than others. There are courtesies as well that extend beyond the traditional codes of etiquette; things like grace and understanding. Sometimes a bride gets wrapped up in her special day a bit too much and forgets a little how to act like a human being.

I am not sure where I said that they were "selectively" sending out plus ones? Nobody got a plus one. For guests who they knew to be in long-term relationships but not engaged or married, they invited both individuals, rather than "Jane Smith and Guest." These people are their friends, so in those cases they at least know/have met the friend's SO.

This is where you said you were sending out +1s selectively:

so they were not able to extend "plus one" invites to guests who are single and not seriously dating anyone.

That is a very selective criteria in which some unmarried guests will receive a +1 and some will not. As I mentioned, there are obvious times when special consideration is given to special guests like the parents of the bride or the wedding party, but beyond that there is a risk of setting up a very visible "cool kid's club".

For that matter, I wonder how much research was put into each invite before deciding who was and wasn't 'seriously' dating someone? Like I said this is an opportunity for communication between the host and guest, not condemnation. In this particular case there was 3 or so obvious cases of miss-communication. That's a big part of the benefit of RSVP, that you get to sort some of these things out before hand. And you learn, in one case, that someone the host wanted at their wedding is willing to fly across the country for them at great personal cost of precious time and money and the complaint here is that she's bringing an escort that will cost the host an extra ... what $75?

Think about that. This invitee, who absolutely committed a breach of etiquette by adding a name to her invitation, has a friend who values her enough to buy them both airfare so they can come to the wedding and that relationship isn't regarded as highly as the other "seriously dating" couples? Perhaps that's the sort of thing a host should find out before sending out the invitations.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

There is no such thing as common sense, there are only individual understandings and they often differ.

There are substantial breaches of etiquette and courtesy on both ends of this situation. First there must be understanding that each person involved may view the situation through a lens informed by very different norms and experiences. Some people have never been invited to a wedding or only ever invited as a guest, they may assume that couples are always invited together or that a +1 is implied. They are wrong, but that doesn't mean they are daft or rude. RSVPing with an additional name is, in this sense, serving the purpose of informing the host how many will be coming.

It is a hosts right and prerogative to invite who they please to their party. At the same time, a host is sending a very strong message by not applying the same criteria to all invitations or tailoring the criteria so selectively as to achieve the same effect. Sending a +1 to some but not all guests is a mine-field. You are not so subtly telling your invitee that their having an escort at your party is less important to you than the other person's comfort. Some exceptions are obvious, a divorced parent of the bride or groom is afforded special consideration, maybe the bridesmaids and groomsmen as well, but beyond that I would warn away from sending out +1s, like golden tickets, to a lucky few.

If you get an RSVP from someone for more places than the invitation, then you give them a call to inform them of your intention and to discuss their needs. Not to set them straight. You invite a single guest that must fly in and she wants to bring an escort; you should be apologizing to her for your oversight in not inquiring first if she should be invited with a guest.

If I could impress on brides-to-be and other wedding planners just one thing it would be this:
You are not doing your guests a favor by inviting them to your wedding. They are giving up a weekend afternoon. They are likely giving you a generous gift. They are giving you an adoring crowd on 'your' special day. What are you giving them? a crappy buffet? drinks and a crappy DJ? dancing on a linoleum floor to music bland enough to be enjoyed by the grandparents? Do you know why it is so common to have drunken drama at wedding receptions? It's because no one wants to be there and drinking is the only thing that eases the boredom.

Look at your guest list, half or more of them see being invited as an imposition and not an honor, but you're upset that one of them who is willing to get on a plane and (I assume) bunk in a motel in order to celebrate your wedding wants a friend along?

Actually what I said is that it is the host's right and prerogative to invite whomever they may wish. I only cautioned that showing favoritism in this regard can send a very strong message that you value some guests more than others. There are courtesies as well that extend beyond the traditional codes of etiquette; things like grace and understanding. Sometimes a bride gets wrapped up in her special day a bit too much and forgets a little how to act like a human being.




This is where you said you were sending out +1s selectively:


That is a very selective criteria in which some unmarried guests will receive a +1 and some will not. As I mentioned, there are obvious times when special consideration is given to special guests like the parents of the bride or the wedding party, but beyond that there is a risk of setting up a very visible "cool kid's club".

For that matter, I wonder how much research was put into each invite before deciding who was and wasn't 'seriously' dating someone? Like I said this is an opportunity for communication between the host and guest, not condemnation. In this particular case there was 3 or so obvious cases of miss-communication. That's a big part of the benefit of RSVP, that you get to sort some of these things out before hand. And you learn, in one case, that someone the host wanted at their wedding is willing to fly across the country for them at great personal cost of precious time and money and the complaint here is that she's bringing an escort that will cost the host an extra ... what $75?

Think about that. This invitee, who absolutely committed a breach of etiquette by adding a name to her invitation, has a friend who values her enough to buy them both airfare so they can come to the wedding and that relationship isn't regarded as highly as the other "seriously dating" couples? Perhaps that's the sort of thing a host should find out before sending out the invitations.

Sorry, completely disagree, you aren't asking your guests to put them out, or not do something else they would rather do, you're inviting them to share in something special to you and your fiance. Not allowing an "and Guest" to include complete stranger, while including someone's SO that you know well enough to invite by name, isn't even in the same ballpark.

The bride and groom completely control who is invited to their event, it is not rude to not include a guest, any more than it's not rude to invite Bob down in accounting that you've never met.

 

[goofyintoronto]

How many weddings do you think an average person has? Lol. I've only been married once. And no I didn't invite strangers. I agree that the B&G can invite whoever they want, WITHOUT a guest even. Its their choice. I just don't think its very nice to do so. I don't agree with it. I was taught that it was polite to always indicate "and guest" on the envelope.

Do you regularly invite almost strangers to a wedding? Social anxiety and not attending such functions alone isn't a reason to not invite them, the bride and groom are still not obligated to include a plus 1 for everyone, they can even pick and choose. If Mary is an introvert with social anxiety, they can graciously allow her to bring a date, but can at the same time only invite Sue, because she's a total player who always has a flavor of the week that they don't want to include in the festivities. It's completely up to the bride and groom, and isn't rude in either case.

 

[mjkacmom]

I think I have been invited to a total of 2 weddings where kids were not invited!

You live in the land of weddings without kids - maybe you have been thrown a bone being a single parent?...