Is anyone else getting tired of the time for accessible vehicles?

[BillSears]

Lets think about that one for evacs though... what would it take to evac someone from a wheel chair on the jungle cruise without getting the boat back to the loading area. Does anyone know how they would do this?

For the able bodied all you need is a simple plank that could be placed from the boat to the side. I"m sure there are MANY locations along the ride that you could do this.

For wheel chair users that can't transfer what will it take? a Lift maybe?

I think for most evacs of this ride the method is to have CMs manually push the boat back to the dock. I heard of a case on Small World in DL that required the wheelchair user to wait until the boat was pushed back to the docking area before evacuating. For other rides it may require lifting the wheelchair user onto a stretcher or a chair similar to the aisle chairs that the airlines use. In the case of a true emergency such as a fire I always assume I'm just not going to make it out in time. CMs are not trained to do the actual lifting and don't have the special equipment available so I'd be waiting for the actual first responders to arrive. It would take time for them to traverse the park with their equipment and then to get to the ride vehicle.

Personally I'm willing to take these chances. In the grand scheme of things I'm much more likely to die crossing the street than I am by some emergency on the Jungle Cruise.

 

[SMD]

Assuming the boat can be pushed back to the dock. That may be the preferred procedure, but what if the route to the dock is blocked in both directions. They have to consider how they would evac from any given point on the ride in any number of conditions, not just the uncomplicated situations.

 

[kamik86]

I think for most evacs of this ride the method is to have CMs manually push the boat back to the dock. I heard of a case on Small World in DL that required the wheelchair user to wait until the boat was pushed back to the docking area before evacuating. For other rides it may require lifting the wheelchair user onto a stretcher or a chair similar to the aisle chairs that the airlines use. In the case of a true emergency such as a fire I always assume I'm just not going to make it out in time. CMs are not trained to do the actual lifting and don't have the special equipment available so I'd be waiting for the actual first responders to arrive. It would take time for them to traverse the park with their equipment and then to get to the ride vehicle.

Personally I'm willing to take these chances. In the grand scheme of things I'm much more likely to die crossing the street than I am by some emergency on the Jungle Cruise.

Yes it was the true emergency situations that I assume have the rule of only X disabled people on the ride at one time. I always assumed that was the number that was calculated by the safety engineers as possible to evacuate in time.

I assumed similar to you that they would have a lift of some sort or that first responders were going to have to do the evac, which would be a reason to limit how many could be on the ride at one time. I would hope in a true emergency though that emergency personnel would be using backstage areas to get to people faster, thus not taking as much time as you think. I would imagine emergency vehicles can drive pretty close to most of the rides in back.

I would agree the risk of anything happening is small... heck the real reason could be disney doesn't want to get sued if it takes too much extra time to get people off the ride... didn't that happen a few years ago? IN a case that wasn't even a true emergency (no fire etc)


Maybe I'm odd but I tend to think about stuff like this, not that it would change what I would do as you said the chance is small. I just tend to be curious. Comes in handy sometimes like when DH got nervous about pirates when we got stuck... he hates water. After I pointed out that if you look close you could see to the side a door in the back of the scene (they turned the lights on) and that the water was not deep at all he was much better.

 

[wilkeliza]

I would agree the risk of anything happening is small... heck the real reason could be disney doesn't want to get sued if it takes too much extra time to get people off the ride... didn't that happen a few years ago? IN a case that wasn't even a true emergency (no fire etc)

Yep. Disneyland ended up having to pay the guy 8K because it took them 30 minutes to evacuate him.

 

[BillSears]

Yea, I'm the opposite in some ways. I just shrug off the worry thinking that the odds are so small that the inconvenience and costs are not worth it. Adding up all the extra wait times just to offset the very small chance of 2 vs. 1 emergency evacuation is a bad trade off to me. How many times in the history of Disney parks has someone actually died because they couldn't be evacuated from a ride fast enough?

I do realize that I'm not going to change anyone's mind on the subject of safety and I doubt anyone is going to change mine. So I'll try to resist posting rebuttals. But feel free to keep the discussion going.

 

[BillSears]

Yep. Disneyland ended up having to pay the guy 8K because it took them 30 minutes to evacuate him.

There is the perfect solution!!!! Every time I have to wait 30 minutes above what an able-bodied person has to wait Disney pays me $8,000.00.

 

[KPeveler]

They do have 2 accessible boats at the Jungle Cruise but they only run one at a time. When I came back after the first delay they were swapping boats and told me it would be 15 minutes even with no one in line in front of me.

I do understand the evacuation problems and limited vehicles. But it is frustrating.

Personally I'd like to see a free Fastpass handed out every time someone is delayed because of the limited number of accessible vehicles. It's not perfect but it would make up the extra time you spend waiting. Plus if they hand out enough of them it's an incentive for Disney to fix the problem.

I have actually had this happen at Disneyland and DCA more than once - they added a ride re-entry to my ticket to be used on any ride like a Fastpass. More than once the green train on Screamin was on the wrong track for me to use it, and they had to move the car for me. It took an extra 15 or 20 minutes, and they wanted to apologize.

I think that if the wait for an accessible vehicle is longer than normal because of their error (like the coaster train on Screamin being on the wrong track) or because of circumstances not related to waiting for the car to come around, they should offer another FP or ride re-entry for any attraction. Often times waiting for the accessible vehicle makes you miss another FP window or you do not have time for another attraction. Waiting for a ride car to come around is just an unfortunate part of needing the WAV, but that does not mean they need to make it worse with errors.

Most WAVs like the boat at Jungle Cruise and the ones at Small World Disneyland use a battery operated lift, and the batteries do not last all day, so they need to be switched out. Sometimes I have even been told to come back later. It would be nice if when this happened I was offered a FP to make up for the lost time.

I understand why they cannot increase the number of accessible vehicles for safety reasons, but that does not mean we should have to wait and lose time and potentially lose a FP time because of operator error. Maybe there is happy medium to make up for inevitable problems.

 

[KPeveler]

Lets think about that one for evacs though... what would it take to evac someone from a wheel chair on the jungle cruise without getting the boat back to the loading area. Does anyone know how they would do this?

For the able bodied all you need is a simple plank that could be placed from the boat to the side. I"m sure there are MANY locations along the ride that you could do this.

For wheel chair users that can't transfer what will it take? a Lift maybe?

In that case, they would not be able to get the wheelchair off - the firefighting crew would have to lift the person out themselves (I assume they have a way of approaching the boats that cannot get back to the dock. I am not sure they would have a way to move a heavy powerchair. Essentially there is no good way to get a powerchair off any ride without it going back to loading. I know - I spent 45 minutes stuck on Winnie the Pooh.

 

[kamik86]

In that case, they would not be able to get the wheelchair off - the firefighting crew would have to lift the person out themselves (I assume they have a way of approaching the boats that cannot get back to the dock. I am not sure they would have a way to move a heavy powerchair. Essentially there is no good way to get a powerchair off any ride without it going back to loading. I know - I spent 45 minutes stuck on Winnie the Pooh.

That makes sense. IN that case I would think in an evac the limit is so that there are only X number of people they possibly have to carry off.

That must suck if say the power goes out... you would be stuck every time. I imagine this one happens much more often then say a fire... I was actually just getting out of a living with the land tour (the big one that takes you walking into the gardens not the ride one) when that building lost power in the whole back section. Although in our case it was just a matter of turning on the flashlights on our phone...

 

[sunburnin]

There is the perfect solution!!!! Every time I have to wait 30 minutes above what an able-bodied person has to wait Disney pays me $8,000.00.

HA! Outstanding idea!

My daughter is in a chair, but we can transfer her. However, I do feel your pain with this issue, as we also had to wait a while with another family to board the Jungle Cruise. It's unfortunate, but I'm not sure how they could solve it easily.

I will say there's a trade off here for those with chairs. We don't have to use the FP on the ride and can save it for something else. We knew that on Jungle Cruise and Big Thunder Mountain, they would give us a return ticket. With so many other rides available at MK, those 2 extra FP equivalents are a big bonus. It does mean a tad extra wait depending on how many other chairs are waiting for each ride, but it was nice to grab lunch or ride something else waiting for our return time.

Personally, I found Soarin/Living With the Land to be the most frustrating with only ONE elevator in the building getting to the lower level. Sometimes there are 10+ chairs and scooters waiting to go up/down and, wow, can some of those folks take a long time to board an elevator. Forget the wait for the ride, the extra 20-30 minutes is sometimes longer than waiting for Living with the Land.

 

[DisneyOma]

I can see the limit for a water ride - but why couldn't they have more accessible vehicles on some of the ground rides? Most of them have a walkway right next to the track, (thinking Nemo, Mermaid, Pooh, etc) and if you have someone in the vehicle with you that person can get you out. Of course if there were steps, that's a nog-go.

On the water rides, a ramp could go with the boat. We have very simple ramps we use at school for our stairs. We used them in the old chorus room as it had the stepped choral bleachers, kind of like a lecture hall setup. They would also work in a pinch on a good sized gap, up to a certain weight. Couldn't hold an ECV, but would hold a wheelchair. Then the boat with the lift could be for ECV.

 

[wilkeliza]

I can see the limit for a water ride - but why couldn't they have more accessible vehicles on some of the ground rides? Most of them have a walkway right next to the track, (thinking Nemo, Mermaid, Pooh, etc) and if you have someone in the vehicle with you that person can get you out. Of course if there were steps, that's a nog-go.

On the water rides, a ramp could go with the boat. We have very simple ramps we use at school for our stairs. We used them in the old chorus room as it had the stepped choral bleachers, kind of like a lecture hall setup. They would also work in a pinch on a good sized gap, up to a certain weight. Couldn't hold an ECV, but would hold a wheelchair. Then the boat with the lift could be for ECV.

For most rides it is the step down that makes a ramp a no go. The ADA has specific rules on how steep a ramp can be. The boat rides unless completely redone like the IASW boats would not be able to handle the ramp needed to get to the step down.

 

[BillSears]

...I will say there's a trade off here for those with chairs. We don't have to use the FP on the ride and can save it for something else. We knew that on Jungle Cruise and Big Thunder Mountain, they would give us a return ticket. With so many other rides available at MK, those 2 extra FP equivalents are a big bonus. It does mean a tad extra wait depending on how many other chairs are waiting for each ride, but it was nice to grab lunch or ride something else waiting for our return time.

Actually I'm running out of things to use my Fastpasses on. With the new Pirates boats I can't ride that anymore. Space and Splash Mountain are out for me since they are too low. I can only see the Princesses so many times. So it's getting tough to not repeat FPs with 3 days in the MK. Plus pushing back up the hill at the Jungle Cruise is rough on my shoulders and really wears me out so I don't want to keep going up and down trying to find out how long the wait is for the accessible boat.

 

[blondietink]

That must be so frustrating and I am sympathetic to your problem. That said, I think this is one of those moments where being in a chair just sucks and there's not a good solution. Sometimes there's not an equal accommodation. There's no way for me to view Fantasmic at Disneyland without spending $60 on premium seating. It's not equal and it's not accessible but there's not a viable alternative.

I disagree. We were in Disneyland last month, the week before Thanksgiving. We have 2 wheelchairs. We got Fast passes for the blue section in mid-afternoon for Fantasmic. We had never been to Disneyland before, so we were unsure how the whole thing worked. We were shown the last row in the Blue section where we parked the wheelchairs. DH and I stood behind them. I was concerned because everybody in front of us was sitting on the pavement and I thought that when the show started they would stand up and my DS's would not be able to see anything. Much to my surprise everybody stayed seated during the show and we had a fantastic view. They even stayed seated during the finale, something that never happens at WDW (people exiting and ruining our view during the finale). Anyway we had a great spot with the free Fast Passes at Disneyland.

 

[SMD]

I just shrug off the worry thinking that the odds are so small that the inconvenience and costs are not worth it. Adding up all the extra wait times just to offset the very small chance of 2 vs. 1 emergency evacuation is a bad trade off to me. How many times in the history of Disney parks has someone actually died because they couldn't be evacuated from a ride fast enough?

Do you really think that a company that operates an amusement park, hotel, restaurant or movie theater really has that luxury? That they should just ignore potential safety issues because of the unlikely odds of a worst case scenario? That sounds incredibly negligent and unrealistic for Disney.

I think that if the wait for an accessible vehicle is longer than normal because of their error (like the coaster train on Screamin being on the wrong track) or because of circumstances not related to waiting for the car to come around, they should offer another FP or ride re-entry for any attraction. Often times waiting for the accessible vehicle makes you miss another FP window or you do not have time for another attraction. Waiting for a ride car to come around is just an unfortunate part of needing the WAV, but that does not mean they need to make it worse with errors.

That doesn't sound like a CM error. If the correct side of the track has a train in it, they can't just leave the green train waiting indefinitely while the other trains are still running behind it. Eventually it has to move into the station to avoid the trains that are out of the station from stopping mid-ride If the opposite side opens first, they'll put the green train there for safety. I would hope that after another cycle they'd be able to leave the correct side open for that train, but most of the time the reason a train stays in the station is rider delays, not CMs. Another reason besides evacs that stopping rides has hazards for all guests. For the continuously moving rides they try not to stop more than once per cycle. Obviously for some rides, like Screamin, having to stop the ride is not fixed by simply restarting it.

 

[buffettgirl]

First off, I'm with Bill on this one. From what I've read of his posts, he has no problem navigating the real world, and with that comes a whole lot of risk that he mus take every day that the rest of us don't. It also means that at any point in time he's basically stuck somewhere during an emergency, at the mercy of whoever will come to rescue him. That is frightening, but I suspect that it's something that people who have no other option just have to deal with, and learn to factor into their daily lives.

Now, what's the real actual risk of having to be evacuated from a ride due to a really emergency? Kind of small. If a ride broke down, not an emergency, and there were multiple people in chairs, yes, it would take longer to evacuate, but it would also mean that the wait would be more in line with what the rest of the people wait. It's simply not equitable in any way having to wait twice as long just because of some arbitrary safety rule for something that isn't likely to happen.
Beyond that, if there were a fire on the boat, I know that at least i and/or my husband would attempt to help someone that couldn't get off that boat. I would like to hope that there are more people like me, than not. So Bill, if we'er ever on Jungle Cruise together, and if the boat ever catches fire, we'll lend a hand.

 

[BillSears]

...So Bill, if we'er ever on Jungle Cruise together, and if the boat ever catches fire, we'll lend a hand.

Thanks!

 

[BillSears]

That doesn't sound like a CM error. If the correct side of the track has a train in it, they can't just leave the green train waiting indefinitely while the other trains are still running behind it. Eventually it has to move into the station to avoid the trains that are out of the station from stopping mid-ride If the opposite side opens first, they'll put the green train there for safety. I would hope that after another cycle they'd be able to leave the correct side open for that train, but most of the time the reason a train stays in the station is rider delays, not CMs. Another reason besides evacs that stopping rides has hazards for all guests. For the continuously moving rides they try not to stop more than once per cycle. Obviously for some rides, like Screamin, having to stop the ride is not fixed by simply restarting it.

I've only ridden Screamin once but I had the same issue there. If I remember correctly the problem occurs when they have an even number of cars running. Then the accessible vehicle never cycles over to the track side that allows boarding. They need to make sure to have the accessible vehicle in the right location so that it always arrives at the correct spot when having an even number. To correct the problem when I was there they needed to add another train to the mix for it to cycle between the 2 loading areas.

 

[blondietink]

Now, what's the real actual risk of having to be evacuated from a ride due to a really emergency? Kind of small. If a ride broke down, not an emergency, and there were multiple people in chairs, yes, it would take longer to evacuate, but it would also mean that the wait would be more in line with what the rest of the people wait. It's simply not equitable in any way having to wait twice as long just because of some arbitrary safety rule for something that isn't likely to happen.
Beyond that, if there were a fire on the boat, I know that at least i and/or my husband would attempt to help someone that couldn't get off that boat. I would like to hope that there are more people like me, than not. So Bill, if we'er ever on Jungle Cruise together, and if the boat ever catches fire, we'll lend a hand.

We were on big Thunder Mountain Railroad once in WDW when it broke down in the heat. We were almost to the top of the very first incline which is pretty steep. The worst part was trying to get my DS (and myself) out of the car on the incline. We managed and I carried him down to the start of the ride. Got a free FP. He still weighs only 105 pounds, so I could still carry him, but it would be difficult. Not sure how we would get off the ride when he gets bigger/older. The same day BTMRR broke down we went on It's a Small World. That broke down just as we were getting on the ride, so we got another FP. But they had to call in the rescue squad to evacuate someone way in the ride with a wheelchair. The ride was down for a couple of hours. We figured our luck was just bad so we went to Epcot and yep, you guessed it, Spaceship Earth broke down and yet another free FP. The next day we went back to MK and rode Jungle Cruise. Yep, it broke down for 45 minutes while we were in a boat out in the hot sun. Don't know what happened, and eventually we got moving, but another free FP was ours. Moral of the story is don't go to WDW at the end of August or anytime when there is excessive heat and rainy weather.

 

[buffettgirl]

We were on big Thunder Mountain Railroad once in WDW when it broke down in the heat. We were almost to the top of the very first incline which is pretty steep. The worst part was trying to get my DS (and myself) out of the car on the incline. We managed and I carried him down to the start of the ride. Got a free FP. He still weighs only 105 pounds, so I could still carry him, but it would be difficult. Not sure how we would get off the ride when he gets bigger/older. The same day BTMRR broke down we went on It's a Small World. That broke down just as we were getting on the ride, so we got another FP. But they had to call in the rescue squad to evacuate someone way in the ride with a wheelchair. The ride was down for a couple of hours. We figured our luck was just bad so we went to Epcot and yep, you guessed it, Spaceship Earth broke down and yet another free FP. The next day we went back to MK and rode Jungle Cruise. Yep, it broke down for 45 minutes while we were in a boat out in the hot sun. Don't know what happened, and eventually we got moving, but another free FP was ours. Moral of the story is don't go to WDW at the end of August or anytime when there is excessive heat and rainy weather.

Oh, there's no doubt the rides break down.They break down all the time. The need for more accessible boats really shouldn't matter, though. Instead of fixing older rides, or keeping them working properly, they're inconvenience a lot of people.