Is anyone else getting tired of the time for accessible vehicles?

[TheRustyScupper]

Assuming the boat can be pushed back to the dock.

Since the boats are on rails, other boats might prevent the boat form getting back to the dock.

 

[pampam]

Actually I'm running out of things to use my Fastpasses on. With the new Pirates boats I can't ride that anymore. Space and Splash Mountain are out for me since they are too low. I can only see the Princesses so many times. So it's getting tough to not repeat FPs with 3 days in the MK. Plus pushing back up the hill at the Jungle Cruise is rough on my shoulders and really wears me out so I don't want to keep going up and down trying to find out how long the wait is for the accessible boat.[/QUOTE]

I hear ya. The ramp at the MK monorail is steep too. Last time I had to get some assistance to go up. ( Going down is another problem if everyone is moving slow. But I haven't had a runnaway WC yet. )

 

[Baklava]

I disagree. We were in Disneyland last month, the week before Thanksgiving. We have 2 wheelchairs. We got Fast passes for the blue section in mid-afternoon for Fantasmic. We had never been to Disneyland before, so we were unsure how the whole thing worked. We were shown the last row in the Blue section where we parked the wheelchairs. DH and I stood behind them. I was concerned because everybody in front of us was sitting on the pavement and I thought that when the show started they would stand up and my DS's would not be able to see anything. Much to my surprise everybody stayed seated during the show and we had a fantastic view. They even stayed seated during the finale, something that never happens at WDW (people exiting and ruining our view during the finale). Anyway we had a great spot with the free Fast Passes at Disneyland.

You... disagree with my understanding of MY needs and how they can or cannot be accommodated? Really?

Wheelchair seating is not the only disability need. Not every disability is mobility related but hey, thanks for invalidating my experience.

No. There is in fact no reasonable way to accommodate MY needs in the set up at Disneyland.

 

[kamik86]

As much as I know everyone feels it is a small possibility that is an acceptable risk I assume their are laws that force disney to have to have an exit plan that can be accomplished in Y amount of time. So they can't load anyone that would cause them to fail that at any point.

If its not a law the other option would be an insurance issue... since the insurance would be what would pay out if they got wrongful death law suits for each of the people they couldn't evacuate on time.

Since CMs aren't trained to lift I believe they are not allowed to and can be fired for attempting to do so (which is why we hear about CMs being unwilling/unable to help them out of ride vehicles on occasion). Now in a true emergency I'm sure many of them would disregard this and do it anyway but that means disney can't factor that into its planning numbers. Same with random other vacationers. Since they have no way to know if the others on boat would be willing and able to help they can't put that in the plan either.

 

[blondietink]

You... disagree with my understanding of MY needs and how they can or cannot be accommodated? Really?

Wheelchair seating is not the only disability need. Not every disability is mobility related but hey, thanks for invalidating my experience.

No. There is in fact no reasonable way to accommodate MY needs in the set up at Disneyland.

So sorry you took offence at what happened with us at Disneyland. Perhaps if you were more clear on what accommodations you need people would be able to offer suggestions that would help YOU.

 

[Baklava]

So sorry you took offence at what happened with us at Disneyland. Perhaps if you were more clear on what accommodations you need people would be able to offer suggestions that would help YOU.

I took no offense to what happened to you in Disneyland. I am GLAD that the accommodations work for some people, that's a good thing. I took offense to you acting as though your needs are universal and dismissing my situation as though it was not a real problem.

My situation is not correctable in the format Disneyland uses. I've been over it with a number of folks, with ADA experts and with CMs. Not all things can be accommodated. That's okay. What's not okay is being told that my experience is invalid because someone else's was different. It's like someone announcing that a couple stairs aren't a big deal because the hand rail worked just fine for them.

I did not ask for suggestions, so it's really okay for you not to know the details of my disability.

 

[lanejudy]

This thread may be nearing it's end. I'll leave it open for now for discussion about accessible ride vehicles and the related wait times or wheelchair return times. And it's important to remember different posters may have different experiences based on park, ride, day and time they were at that specific attraction.

 

[OurBigTrip]

The ADA goes out the window when there are safety concerns, period. What I or anyone thinks is a reasonable risk for Disney to take (easy to say, BTW, when we aren't the ones that would be liable if there were an emergency necessitating evacuation and someone was injured or died because there were too many wheelchair evacuees to handle) is irrelevant.

Yes, it sucks, but sometimes life just isn't fair.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I forgot about evacuation - but then how does that work on a bus? There are 3 spots for WC/ECV on pretty much every bus now, how would you evacuate there?

Giving someone a FP would only make the wait shorter for that one person - it would make it longer for everyone else needing the accommodations. Do that for everyone in the same situation, and you get a huge pile-up as well.

Evacuation from a bus is a lot different than from an attraction. Once off the bus it's done. On an attraction you have to be removed from the seating area and then the actual attractions. Depending on where in the attraction you are, it can be a long haul out. There's no comparison to a bus evacuation

 

[DisneyOma]

I think the issue is why and how far you have to evac.

Why would you evac a bus? I can't come up with any reason that would involve needing to move more then a few feet away from the bus. Even if the bus is on fire we are still not talking a huge clearance area shorter then how far I would have to walk to make it outisde the building I"m in now. IN that case I would think the wheel chair users would just be carried out. Even if there are three they know right where they are and can do that because each person is only being moved a short way.


Now what about in a building? There are many reasons to have to evac a full building. If the full ride building needs to be evacuated quickly everyone who is not disabled they pretty much just have to release the harnesses and direct them where to move.

Those that are disabled they need to figure out where they are in the ride prioritize who needs to get out first and figure out how they are going to move them, because the distance may be more then making carrying feasible. With one or two that need help that is possible... but at some point its just not going to be possible to get everyone out.

Bus in the water, bus during a tornado, bus in a hostage situation - those are the first 3 I could think of. Rolled over bus with fire, gasoline spill, multi-car pileup... all situations where you have to get out fast and move far away (or seek shelter).

 

[KPeveler]

Do you really think that a company that operates an amusement park, hotel, restaurant or movie theater really has that luxury? That they should just ignore potential safety issues because of the unlikely odds of a worst case scenario? That sounds incredibly negligent and unrealistic for Disney.

That doesn't sound like a CM error. If the correct side of the track has a train in it, they can't just leave the green train waiting indefinitely while the other trains are still running behind it. Eventually it has to move into the station to avoid the trains that are out of the station from stopping mid-ride If the opposite side opens first, they'll put the green train there for safety. I would hope that after another cycle they'd be able to leave the correct side open for that train, but most of the time the reason a train stays in the station is rider delays, not CMs. Another reason besides evacs that stopping rides has hazards for all guests. For the continuously moving rides they try not to stop more than once per cycle. Obviously for some rides, like Screamin, having to stop the ride is not fixed by simply restarting it.

They were running an even number of trains, so the trains were not switching tracks each time. I understand that if they are running an odd number, it will come back on the correct side eventually, and I just have to wait a cycle. That is fine, I get that. In this case, they put the green train on the far side, which is not their policy. In order to switch it to the correct side, they need to either add or pull a train, so there is an odd number.

This is a much more involved process, which is why the policy is that they keep the green train on the near side when they are running an even number of trains. This means there is a 15-20 minute wait, as opposed to just waiting for the green train to come around on the near side. I understand that there are things that cannot be controlled, but choosing which side to put the train on is not one of them. That is a little thing to do that is easy.

 

[KPeveler]

The problem with more accessible vehicles even in ground-based rides is still going to be getting the people out of the ride cars. They are not level with the ground, even if there was room around them in the attractions. I was on Winnie the Pooh in Disneyland in the accessible car when the ride died. The floor of the ride car was about 18 inches above the ground. Even if they could have opened the safety restraints, I still could not get out. And I was in a powerchair, so I could not be lifted down. (My chair weighs about 300 lbs). If it were an emergency (such as a fire), the firefighters would have had to carry me out. Having more than 1 or 2 people in that situation would be even more dangerous, and not just the guests. It would mean even more firefighters needing to go into the building.

Also, most WAVs are not adaptable to carry other guests - this means that they can only be used for wheelchairs, not for guests who walk onto the ride. There are quite a few of us with chairs who do not transfer, but there are a lot more of everyone else, so they also need to balance the numbers...

 

[BroganMc]

The ADA goes out the window when there are safety concerns, period. What I or anyone thinks is a reasonable risk for Disney to take (easy to say, BTW, when we aren't the ones that would be liable if there were an emergency necessitating evacuation and someone was injured or died because there were too many wheelchair evacuees to handle) is irrelevant.

Yes, it sucks, but sometimes life just isn't fair.

Every time this subject comes up and posters start quoting safety regulations as the reason to justify the super long waits post-DAS I have to laugh. There are exactly 5 wheelchair accessible rooms located inside Bay lake Towers. Guess where they are? On the 8, 9 and 14th floors. So in the event of a fire or power outage, I suppose I'll just be left to burn. In their infinite wisdom, Disney did not build any wheelchair accessible rooms on the 1-4th floors or in the "Standard View" category. There are none in Magic Kingdom view either. Then there are those ridiculously heavy pneumatic door closures that make it impossible for a wheelchair guest to exit their room without injury. It took me 3 days and several vocal arguments with managers to get the damn thing disconnected from my Saratoga room in October. I think I'm much more likely to die in a fire inside a hotel building than on a boat in the middle of a tiny man-made river.

The one ride that always cheeses me off for accessibility is Toy Story Mania. They have 2 tracks (soon to be 3) and only 1 has a boarding queue without steps. So everyone who cannot handle a staircase, be they in a scooter, wheelchair or just have crutches and canes get sent along the same narrow queue. That queue shares space with the FastPass entry to the building so there is just enough space to fit one wheelchair. BUT they deploy one 6 seater which they absolutely insist must be used for transfers AND nontransfer guests.

That means if you arrive in a wheelchair and need to stay in your chair, CMs have to first wait for the 6 seater to cycle around, then break it down (i.e. remove a seat, put in wheelchair restraints and a wheelchair gun arm) before they can load you and your companion. Prep time is about 2 minutes. (Load time for a chair is another 3 minutes.) What drives me batty is they insist on converting it back to a 6 seater to take transfer guests as well. I've had instances where the 6 seater arrived with a wheelchair guest, they unloaded that person, then put the seat back in before asking me if I needed the wheelchair space. So yes, we all waited extra while they undid what they just put together. It was comical.

But it gets worse.

Procedure dictates they must fill as much of the vehicle as possible every trip. They cycle the 6 seater and as many 8 seaters as needed to clear the line. So if you arrive with a party of 4, and there's a group of 7 arriving behind you, you are then asked to exit the line so they can board the 7 guests on the arriving 8 seater. Or heaven forbid there's a party of 2 guests waiting ahead of you, a party of 4 behind you and the 6 seater arrives. Then you're asked to stand aside and let the 2 guests in front (because they were there first) and the 4 behind you get on (because it fills up the 6 seater) while you wait for the 6 seater to cycle back around. I'm told that's right because "we have to be fair about our waits" right? In the meantime, you have the 5 minutes it takes to rebuild and load that 6-seater, another 6 minutes for an 8-seater to cycle through and finally you get your chance to ride the 6 seater.

Last week I had a FP+ for TSMM. I booked that 60 days ahead at exactly midnight. I actually had extra FPs because we used MagicBands for all the family and some shared bands. My family was able to ride twice before I was able to get on. It took me 1 hour to get on and off that ride. With my one measly FP+. That is very normal. And yes, I was asked to exit the line so a family arriving 15 minutes after I got there could board the vehicle ahead of me because the numbers fit better.

I have voiced my displeasure over that so many times in so many ways (Guest Relations, ride managers, DVC Guest Services, etc.) I'm blue in the face. Management is able-bodied so they have never experienced the effect of their policies. It's a non-issue to them. I've been told so many times that my wait is "only another 6 minutes". They only count the time it takes for a ride vehicle to cycle through. Not the prep, load or actual wait times.

No other ride allows transfer guests to use the nontransfer vehicles.

Back when we had GAC you got the advantage of not having to worry about FP+ schedules so an extra wait for a ride vehicle wasn't nearly as bothersome. Now that we're all supposed to be "fair" the whole thing is just an unfair mess.

Universal has won me over last year. That 30 minute window (versus Disney's idiotic 10 minutes) makes a huge difference. I end up doing far more in the same amount of time. And if anyone wants the same advantage, they can pay for an Express pass. My family will end up doing even more because they can ride more things than me.

This is just one of many reasons I've concluded Disney is not the disabled friendly place it was just 5 years ago. Don't get me started on how they screwed up fireworks viewings. Or how bus drivers are so afraid of getting yelled at by guests they won't even bother asking them to make space for a wheelchair. I almost missed Osborne Lights on Sunday because the bus driver did that. Fortunately the guests were smart enough to realize my issue and argued with him to take me. It's sad when Disney guests are more considerate than Disney staff.

 

[BillSears]

I agree BroganMc. TSMM is one of the worst "accessible" rides that Disney has. I've many times been asked to allow people to pass me in the line but not once have they asked the person in front of me to let me pass so I can use the non-transfer vehicle while it's loading.

 

[BroganMc]

I agree BroganMc. TSMM is one of the worst "accessible" rides that Disney has. I've many times been asked to allow people to pass me in the line but not once have they asked the person in front of me to let me pass so I can use the non-transfer vehicle while it's loading.

I thought when they added the third track they'd alleviate this by putting the transfer folks over there and leaving us non-transfers a free loading zone. I don't have issues waiting for another wheelchair user to ride. But noooooooo, we can't do that. Besides you just have to wait 6 minutes for the vehicle to cycle around. It's not that long , is it?

I often think the ones making up these rules must first be forced to follow them. Stick them in a wheelchair and make them tour a Disney park for 6-8 hours without getting out of it. You have to wait for the ADA bathroom stall. You have to use the non-ADA tall counters. You have to use only ADA vehicles and seating. You have to see all stage, parade and fireworks shows from chair height. Have to navigate a crowded park in just your chair. Have to go the long way around to use the ramps and curb cuts. Have to navigate the shops and not get hit. Do that a day and then I'll believe you have the wisdom it takes to craft a "fair" rule to delegate resources.

Disney staff used to be the best at being disability aware. That's sadly been lost over the last few years. Now it's become yet one more place a disabled person has to fight for accommodation.

 

[blondietink]

Ah yes, Toy Story Midway Mania is the worst for sure.

I also agree with the fireworks viewing. We get a good spot for the fireworks and wait what seems like forever. Then when the fireworks start, everybody in front of us stands up and puts their kids on their shoulders and my sons cannot see the fireworks except the very high ones. Makes me mad every time. Same thing happens in places like Fantasmic. We get seated in the back for the wheelchair accessible spot and they sit people who are taller than they are in front of them. Again, they cannot see the show.

 

[mgentry210]

HA! Outstanding idea!

My daughter is in a chair, but we can transfer her. However, I do feel your pain with this issue, as we also had to wait a while with another family to board the Jungle Cruise. It's unfortunate, but I'm not sure how they could solve it easily.

I will say there's a trade off here for those with chairs. We don't have to use the FP on the ride and can save it for something else. We knew that on Jungle Cruise and Big Thunder Mountain, they would give us a return ticket. With so many other rides available at MK, those 2 extra FP equivalents are a big bonus. It does mean a tad extra wait depending on how many other chairs are waiting for each ride, but it was nice to grab lunch or ride something else waiting for our return time.

Personally, I found Soarin/Living With the Land to be the most frustrating with only ONE elevator in the building getting to the lower level. Sometimes there are 10+ chairs and scooters waiting to go up/down and, wow, can some of those folks take a long time to board an elevator. Forget the wait for the ride, the extra 20-30 minutes is sometimes longer than waiting for Living with the Land.

And that Land elevator is tiny! I was shocked when I planned an extra 30 minutes to get down and back up from Soarin the week of New Years and there was no wait!?! Either way!

 

[mgentry210]

I thought when they added the third track they'd alleviate this by putting the transfer folks over there and leaving us non-transfers a free loading zone. I don't have issues waiting for another wheelchair user to ride. But noooooooo, we can't do that. Besides you just have to wait 6 minutes for the vehicle to cycle around. It's not that long , is it?

I often think the ones making up these rules must first be forced to follow them. Stick them in a wheelchair and make them tour a Disney park for 6-8 hours without getting out of it. You have to wait for the ADA bathroom stall. You have to use the non-ADA tall counters. You have to use only ADA vehicles and seating. You have to see all stage, parade and fireworks shows from chair height. Have to navigate a crowded park in just your chair. Have to go the long way around to use the ramps and curb cuts. Have to navigate the shops and not get hit. Do that a day and then I'll believe you have the wisdom it takes to craft a "fair" rule to delegate resources.

Disney staff used to be the best at being disability aware. That's sadly been lost over the last few years. Now it's become yet one more place a disabled person has to fight for accommodation.

Amen.

 

[gap2368]

Ah yes, Toy Story Midway Mania is the worst for sure.

I also agree with the fireworks viewing. We get a good spot for the fireworks and wait what seems like forever. Then when the fireworks start, everybody in front of us stands up and puts their kids on their shoulders and my sons cannot see the fireworks except the very high ones. Makes me mad every time. Same thing happens in places like Fantasmic. We get seated in the back for the wheelchair accessible spot and they sit people who are taller than they are in front of them. Again, they cannot see the show.

I am short and if any one stands infant of me I can not see ( or if they sit in front of me like at places like Fantastic I can not see) one thing I do so that I can see the vier works is I get a FP for them ( yes I know it is a wast of a fast Pass) then I get there about 30 minutes before the fire works ( and some times earlier then that) and get in the front go the viewing area I have had very good luck with this since they have an area set a side for Fast pass